[00:00:01] Alyson: Happy five-year anniversary.

[00:00:04] Luke: Happy five-year anniversary to you, to us.

[00:00:09] Alyson: It's on Sunday. By the time this airs, it will have been a couple of weeks ago. But yeah, I--

[00:00:16] Luke: I like that we celebrate a lot of anniversaries. It's like first date, move in date, spiritual wedding date, legal wedding date.

[00:00:28] Alyson: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:00:30] Luke: We have a bunch of them.

[00:00:33] Alyson: That was my word for this year, is my word for this year, even though it's gotten off to an interesting start, but celebration. So, yeah, I wanted to start our first episode for this year with celebrating our anniversary. And it made me think-- we don't have to go down this rabbit hole if we don't want, but it made me reflect on how much I haven't loved when people try to-- and I'm not saying everybody has done this, but there's been a lot of instances where I feel that people have wanted to try to find a chink in our armor or some way to-- I don't know how to word it.

[00:01:19] You know what I'm trying to say, but they always try to pin up the point of like, well, how many years have you guys been together? Or the classic favorite, oh, you're still newlyweds. To try to like degrade the power of our connection and our union. And so I thought I would toss that into the mix.

[00:01:39] Luke: That's funny. Yeah. It's like that thing that maybe people can't believe that a relationship can be as harmonious and peaceful and healthy as it is because oftentimes, they're that way in the beginning when the sparks are flying and then you get out of the honeymoon phase and then the real people that you are start to show up. People are probably used to that experience. I know I've had that. But yeah, that is funny. Like, oh, just wait-- that kind of thing.

[00:02:16] Alyson: The thing that has annoyed me about that is they're completely eliminating the bigger picture situation, the fact that I'm freaking 46 years old and you're 54 years old. All that we endured and went through separately as humans, specifically in the romantic relationship category-- I had my entire divine intervention and spiritual awakening born out of a past abusive, nearly two decade-long situation.

[00:02:52] And it's like all of the very deep learning and curriculum that we chose to experience to arrive to the people that we were when we met. And even then, we were both still celibate. And after we met and became friends, we still had to hold the line individually until we had reached enough of sovereignty within ourselves for God to say like, "Okay, this can be now the official new door opening point."

[00:03:28] But it's just like, dude. Yeah, I've been bothered when people are so quick to try to jump in and bring us down. Because in this lifetime, it's "only been five years", and they neglect the other lifetimes we've spent together and all that we went through before we got together romantically.

[00:03:55] It's like they try to discredit or degrade the power of what we have somehow. I know I haven't talked about that on any podcast, and I just wanted to get that off my chest. I have literally cut people out of my life who have jumped in with those remarks, because it's like, how dare you?

[00:04:20] If you really knew me, if they really knew you, if they really knew anything about our whole life story and our whole life journey, you would never cast out so frivolously a remark like that. It's disrespectful and rude. So hard pass for me.

[00:04:40] Luke: Yes, I agree. I think sometimes misery loves company. You know what I mean? I see this a lot on social media when someone's celebrating a win of some kind. There'll be people that are motivated and crabs in the bucket to come forward and be like, oh, you think it's good now. Wait, it'll such and such.

[00:05:02] It could be, oh, someone's happy about their Bitcoin gains and then someone jumps in the comment and starts ragging on crypto or something like that. It's a weird thing of human nature to want to interrupt someone's flow when they're celebrating their happiness or their win.

[00:05:25] Alyson: Yeah. I've noticed we've been at a gathering or a birthday party or something and you and I are just hanging out chatting with people or at a table chatting with people and someone might say something kind to us about they listen to these episodes or-- there are a number of people, honestly, and I'm not trying to say I want to be in this role, but they really look to us as a model because they actually really know us and what we've been through and they're just like, "Wow."

[00:05:56] And they've spent actual time with us to see how we really are when we're not filming in real life when we're just at home. And if someone at the gathering is saying something kind to us about how much they enjoy our energy together or whatever the comment might be, there in times have been somebody-- what do you call it? The peanut gallery.

[00:06:21] Someone in the peanut gallery, they'll jump in and just be like, "But how long have you guys been together?" And it's like, oh, okay. Do you want to open up that can of worms and do we want to have this whole conversation, or do you just want to be cut out of my life right now?

[00:06:35] Luke: You're the best, man. You're so funny. So what are you feeling for this, year, Alyson? I know you've got your vision boards out. There's some creative juices flowing.

[00:06:53] Alyson: Yeah. What a whirlwind beginning. It's hard to put words to it. Yeah, I was kind of struggling to even sort out what you and I could even talk about in this episode because my birthday is on New Year's Day and, boy, right at that time, there's just so much robustness that opened up collectively, personally, that I just feel like I'm only one tier down in the landing portion from the way the year opened and started.

[00:07:30] So I do feel, and this started to come in in the tail end of last year, after all that I learned and navigated in the last two years, which was the darkest, most challenging, trying time of my entire life, and thankfully I'm emerging many steps out of what that was and have been in full integration of that for a bit of time now, with this new era, new me, new year, that's really opening up, I feel it's time for me to get back out in the world a bit more again.

[00:08:12] And one thing that's really shown up was, with my friends here, we do these incredibly powerful fire gatherings, fire ceremonies, offerings and rituals and medicine songs and prayers. So many powerful prayers, just prayer after prayer after prayer.

[00:08:30] And after a few of those in the last couple of months, God was just like, "Imagine if you allowed other people to sit at this fire with you ladies." So I'm thinking of calling something fire and song, something simple like that, and letting people come be at the fire and be in the midst of these powerful energetics and sitting with sacred grandfire who is, in my opinion, the most ancient shaman across all time and space and all of eternity.

[00:09:00] And so to be in the presence of that wisdom of the flame and to potentially have different themes for the different fire and song gatherings and with those themes different types of offerings to give, different types of songs to sing, different types of prayers to lift up and send up.

[00:09:20] So that's something that I look forward to because, I said this on New Year's Eve when we were with our, some of our closest friends, and obviously it's the eve of my birthday and it's always an extra magical time. I love the cozy holidays. And so on New Year's Eve when we were outside at that big fire, we had our guitars, and I was singing some medicine songs.

[00:09:44] And just looking at the people in that circle around the fire with us and the kids running and laughing in the dark and the bright stars above us, I thought, I couldn't pick a more favorable way to spend a New Year's Eve than exactly what we're doing here, singing and laughing and sharing and prayer and offering and the giggles and running around of kids. Just that type of magic is my favorite kind of magic. So put me in front of a fire, and I'm good to go. It's really all I need.

[00:10:20] Luke: Oh, I got us some more firewood for our little backyard fire.

[00:10:23] Alyson: Thank you.

[00:10:25] Luke: Repurposed. I was feeling very manly. I was out there with my saw, taking apart a-- I don't even know what it's called-- palette, a palette that some stuff got delivered on.

[00:10:37] Alyson: Yeah. I think I got out of the shower and I was looking for you and I heard the buzz of a saw and I thought, what is he up to? And I looked out the kitchen windows and, yeah, you had your little earphones. What do we call those things?

[00:10:51] Luke: I think it's called ear protection.

[00:10:53] Alyson: Ear protection on and you were sawing away. I thought, wow. I think, and I said this to you, that all of our 500 episodes of watching Naked and Afraid, it's really given you an extra boost of confidence in your outdoorsman skills.

[00:11:12] Luke: This is true. Yeah, I want to learn how to get better at fires, building things, breaking things down, burning things.

[00:11:19] Alyson: Building a boma.

[00:11:21] Luke: Build a boma.

[00:11:24] Alyson: B-O-M-A.

[00:11:25] Luke: Let's talk about prayer.

[00:11:28] Alyson: Oh, but another thing I'm doing this year--

[00:11:30] Luke: What?

[00:11:31] Alyson: I'm a part of this incredible online program where they invite people in called Visiting Masters.

[00:11:41] Luke: Oh yes, this is the Being Human 12-week online immersion.

[00:11:45] Alyson: Yes, that. And our friend Jarrod, who's a lovely human, it's his initiative and online program, and it spans over the course of a number of weeks. I can't remember if it's--

[00:11:57] Luke: 12 weeks.

[00:11:58] Alyson: 12 weeks. I think for each week there's a different theme and a different visiting master like Gabby Reece, who used to be a professional volleyball player, and myself and Eben Britton and others who--

[00:12:16] Luke: Paul Chek.

[00:12:17] Alyson: Who join into this online program and offer whatever God wants us to say, I guess. So I'm excited.

[00:12:24] Luke: Yeah. You want to get out in the world this year and, boom, there it is. The link, which we'll put in the show notes, the show notes today, y'all, are found at lukestorey.com/584. And this Being Human immersion, of which Alyson speaks, is found at beherefarm.comhuman. And that goes from February 4th through May 11th.

[00:12:51] Alyson: With that, if this resonates with you at all, if you feel any spark to explore and potentially enroll, you have to get on it right away because I think by the time this episode comes out, the enrollment period will probably be wrapping up and the program will be starting. So get in there.

[00:13:11] Luke: Noted. Noted.

[00:13:13] Alyson: But praying. Yes.

[00:13:14] Luke: Yeah. I've been writing about prayer in my life and different points at which it's shown up for a part of my book. Actually, the chapter I'm about to start working on right now is largely based on that, so it's top of mind. But I remembered incorrectly that the first time I ever prayed was the morning I woke up in rehab on February 15th, 1997.

[00:13:49] And I know for sure what happened that morning. And I always thought that was the first time because it had such a profound and lasting effect. And there's so much to say about that, but when I was writing, I realized that a couple of months before that I was doing one of my self-administered detox programs, and was trying to quit drugs.

[00:14:23] Alyson: Is this the one in the valley?

[00:14:25] Luke: No, this is at my mom's house. I knew I needed to get clean. I wanted to quit heroin, which over the course of the many years that I was addicted to that particular drug, if it got really bad, I would go put myself away somewhere, have a friend babysit me and not let me out.

[00:14:48] If anyone's seen the movie Trainspotting, it's like that. I called it going train spotting. So you take three, four days and just go try to sweat it out and then emerge. First time I did it, I probably made it a few months after that and managed to only do every other drug under the sun, but not that one.

[00:15:08] And then each time over the course of a few years that I would quit, the gap between when I would go through the withdrawals and then I would start using it again would get shorter and shorter. Until finally it was basically immediately afterward I would go use again. But anyway, this time I went to visit my mom over Christmas, probably 1996, I think, and I pretended like I had the flu, because the symptoms of withdrawal for opiates are very similar to the flu, only combine that with suicidal depression and the flu all at once.

[00:15:47] Anyway, she didn't buy it. She knew something was up, but just played along, I guess. But I was at her house and I was in the little room, the guest room on a twin mattress, little cot. And I remember I had this spiritual book called I Am That that my cousin had given me. He came back from India. My cousin, a few members of my dad's side of the family would go over to Puttaparthi in Southern India because they were devotees of Sathya Sai Baba, the guy with the orange robe and the big fro.

[00:16:27] So they would come back with all these stories and little photographs of him, and it was my introduction into that Eastern mysticism and Hindu culture and all that kind of stuff. So I had this little picture of Sai Baba as a bookmark in my I Am That book. And because of all the miracles my aunts had shared with me that they witnessed and I knew that they weren't crazy and I knew that they weren't lying, but they had witnessed these cities, these miracles this guru had performed, and I got the idea that if I could pray to him, that maybe I could stay off of that drug.

[00:17:08] Alyson: Hmm. That's a great start.

[00:17:12] Luke: Yeah. So I did. I don't remember exactly what I said or did, but I was just like, God, if there is a God, help me. Or if you're some representative of God or an avatar or something. And I prayed and I'd forgotten about that. You could say that it didn't work because I left there and then immediately got back on drugs. But shortly after that, because I got back on them with such a fervor that things got really bad, then I went to treatment and I prayed in there.

[00:17:46] Alyson: Hold that where you're at in this story. I'm not saying this applies to every situation, but I have witnessed countless times after an incredibly powerful prayer or ceremony with a very focused intention happens, there oftentimes is a very steep nosedive down to that zero point.

[00:18:16] And I think that that is also the area of potential, specific area of the void of the great mystery of nosediving into the zero point that can get most confusing and discombobulating for people and also the greatest test of faith point because you're just like, like you said, if there is a God, help me.

[00:18:41] And then like after you've mustered up the courage and vulnerability to reach out to God, and then you're plummeting into the darkest point, it can be so rightfully confusing to people of just like, oh my gosh. I've asked for help. Now look what's happening.

[00:18:59] But I have found, again, potentially not 100% of the time, but the vast majority of the time that is the most vital needed point and part of the overall process is getting to that zero point. Some might call it a rock bottom where everything is shed, where you're completely into the most puddled mush of vulnerability and surrender possible.

[00:19:28] And oftentimes it's only from that mushy point that then you rise up. As one of my teachers explains, when you lift up that first layer from the zero point, there are two possible directions to go in-- the karmic repeated old pattern avenue or emerging, crossing the threshold and going into a completely new way.

[00:19:54] And so, yeah, I just wanted to speak to that because I've been witness to that and a few very powerful scenarios lately with people I know and myself included. And it's just like that's where you have to completely put your arms out into that and restore your faith more than ever, as opposed to just letting it go.

[00:20:18] Luke: Yeah, I think looking back on that experience, it was when I first uttered those prayers, I was still holding on to a lot of my will and there were terms and conditions to my prayer. It's like, I'm not willing to give all of myself. I just want to give this little part over here. And so it makes sense that there wasn't an immediate quantifiable result of the prayer because I actually interrupted the answer to the prayer by my unwillingness to let go completely. I still wanted to hold on to some of my behaviors and--

[00:21:08] Alyson: Like what?

[00:21:10] Luke: I wanted to be able to do other drugs safely.

[00:21:15] Alyson: Oh, it was just a prayer for that one drug?

[00:21:17] Luke: Yeah.

[00:21:17] Alyson: Oh.

[00:21:20] Luke: Really, if I'm honest, what my prayer was, if I remember, is I wanted to just smoke weed. If I could just hang on to that, then I feel like I could have somewhat of a decent life. It was all of the other drugs and the alcohol that was causing me the problems. And so my prayer was like, "God, can you just keep me off of everything else and let me just be stoned?"

[00:21:49] Alyson: That's hilarious that you thought that that would be a bargain that God would be in for.

[00:21:55] Luke: Yeah, very--

[00:21:56] Alyson: He's like, "Oh, this that's a great idea, Luke. Sure."

[00:21:58] Luke: Yeah, very infantile. But this is just stabbing in the dark, trying to find an answer.

[00:22:05] Alyson: And that's part of what why we wanted to even talk about prayer, are these potentially awkward starting points of even learning what prayer is.

[00:22:14] Luke: Yeah. But then fast forward a couple of months of abject misery and finally to your point of hitting bottom and putting myself in a place of total humility and vulnerability and desperation, then my prayer was much different. It was like, I don't want to hang on to anything that I'm up to. I'm willing to completely let go of not only all drugs, but just the way I think, the way I feel, the way I behave, who I am in the world.

[00:22:52] Alyson: Giving your life over to God.

[00:22:54] Luke: 100%. Yeah. And it's so interesting that when I did that, it's like the results of that prayer are still unfolding to this day, 28 years later. The impact of it was so profound that the room should have filled up with white light and the curtain should have been blowing with the wind of the spirit and the building should have been shaking in an earthquake from the almighty based on the after effects and how impactful it was in my life. But in the moment, nothing discernible was really happening. I just was like, "God, I hope this works."

[00:23:46] Alyson: The vision I just got was a reorganization of the fabric of your life.

[00:23:54] Luke: Yeah. But how I knew and how I know that it worked, if you want to minimize the idea of communicating with God and asking for help was that from that moment until now I have never ever once even had the idea to drink alcohol or do drugs. It's like that obsession, that constant nonstop incessant craving I had most of my childhood and early adulthood-- there was no moment in the day that I wasn't needing some sort of anesthesia because it was just so uncomfortable to live in my skin. From that moment until now, that's just been gone.

[00:24:47] Alyson: That's a miracle.

[00:24:48] Luke: And I've done, obviously, a lot of work to maintain that and to deepen that relationship and heal so many parts of myself, and I've put in a lot of work to change so that I feel more comfortable and I don't need to run to those things to be able to just breathe and live in the world. But something so profound happened that it served as enough proof for me.

[00:25:17] Alyson: And it was immediate, like one day, one moment. It was OCD-ish, and then the next minute your mind felt free and liberated, or all parts of it?

[00:25:27] Luke: I was still mentally and emotionally quite tortured for some period of time. The only difference was, that through that prayer, I'd been restored to sanity in the sense that I knew and understood that drugs and alcohol had nothing positive for me, and that no matter what I was going through, that they would only make it work.

[00:26:00] And I also gained the clarity that on my own resources and my own willpower alone I could not resist that temptation and stop. And so it was proven to me that I couldn't quit on my own, but if I was willing to invite God to take over that role for me, that God could, as long as I allowed God to do that for me.

[00:26:35] So, yeah, it was a reality check, a level of self-honesty that I'd never been able to achieve. There was always a part of me that thought, I can figure this out if I just try harder. I thought it was a matter of willpower or just if the conditions of the world or the conditions of my life changed, then I wouldn't have the need to use those ways to escape.

[00:27:04] But it was a realization that I was the problem, not the rest of the world, not other people. There were things in me that were causing the turmoil that required me to check out all the time. So it was like the prayer was an instantaneous assumption of responsibility for my own life.

[00:27:25] Alyson: Yeah. That'll be a game changer. The other piece that was coming in when I was listening to you is, again, maybe not 100% of the time, but most often times, in this journey of prayer, surrender that we're speaking to, there also is a specific point in which one finally asks for help.

[00:27:48] Luke: Yeah.

[00:27:49] Alyson: And I think it usually also applies to both help in the physical earth realm and also the spiritual realm. Because I'm even thinking to that deep healing process that I was just in last month or the month before, and one thing that I'm not necessarily touting that I'm proud of, it's just been the case as I'm incredibly self-sufficient and self-reliant, especially when it comes to my healing processes, I trust my own soul and the wisdom I was given as a gift from God.

[00:28:28] And I trust my connection to my ability to hear God, give me directives on steps I need to take for my evolution and my own healing that I very, very rarely seek outside counsel. But in that healing process where I was hitting a true zero point for myself that was the end point, zero point of a lifelong thread that I had been tending to in one shape or form my entire life started at about five weeks old and just cracked the code on right before my birthday. So literally a 46-year thread.

[00:29:00] But for the first time that I recollect, I emailed a guide, a colleague, teacher, and very masterful healer, and in the subject line put, urgent session needed. So I was not only in the biggest prayers of my life, most robustly calling on God, goddess, Jesus, Mary, Quan, Yin, Buddha, all the helpers.

[00:29:33] Lately, it's also been wild boar and also the spirit of corn. Yes, C-O-R-N, spirit of corn's been riding with me lately. So I was in the most powerful prayers of potentially my life. But then on Earth side, I was reaching out to another human for help too. And I think I find that those pieces are usually always in this formula as well. You finally ask for help.

[00:29:59] Luke: Yeah. That's been a tough one for me too. Yeah. I think it's early in my journey because I was so broken, it was much easier to ask for help and there was a more of an abundance of people who had the capacity to help me because I was so far behind.

[00:30:24] Alyson: Right. Yeah, there's a lot that were ahead.

[00:30:27] Luke: Yeah. So everything to me is in the context of my sobriety. So say, going back to that story, I wake up day one in rehab, I pray, I realize something miraculous has happened, but I'm still really screwed up. I have no life skills and there's all sorts of unresolved issues despite the fact that I'm a couple of days sober. But going back then, say I met someone who was 30 days ahead of me on that journey, they're like an enlightened master to me. You know what I mean? And so it was easy to ask for help because there were so many tiers of maturation ahead of me. I was just so immature in so many ways and just so lost. But it's become, I think, more difficult over time, and this is 28, 29 years on this path.

[00:31:20] It's become more difficult to find just wisdom keepers that are much further ahead of me, elders and things like that. Like I was talking to you today, something I'm working on, and I'm like, "God, who can I even call that would have more experience than me or a perspective that I'm unable to reach myself?"

[00:31:41] In this particular case, it's my dad. And he calls me for advice about things sometimes that he's working on. And we have a great symbiosis in that way. But I know this particular thing that I want to work on he has experience with. So I'm going to call him, but I do find myself sometimes going through the Rolodex thinking, "Oh, man. Who is the OG on this particular topic?"

[00:32:06] I feel like I would need access, I don't know, to call Eckhart Tolle or something. It's like I don't have direct contact with people that I feel might really be able to provide insight. So then for me, sometimes it's lowering my expectations of getting the holy grail of wisdom.

[00:32:28] And sometimes I just need the vulnerability of calling up a homie and just being like, "Hey, I'm not looking for any answers on this, but I just don't want to ruminate on this particular issue that I'm trying to overcome on my own." And so, again, like with prayer, it's an act of humility for me to just say, "Hey, man. I just want to be real. I'm really struggling with X, Y, and Z issues and I just need to express it and get it out of my body and make it something more tangible."

[00:33:02] Like journaling. There's something so magical about just putting ideas on paper and getting them out of your body. And I think sometimes just talking to a friend, as reluctant as I am, is much more potent than I think it's going to be.

[00:33:18] Alyson: Yeah. I've had an intriguing, unexpected experience with that piece as well. The grandmother ceremony that we sat in, gosh, probably about three years ago at this point, the one where grandmother instructed me to pick up the guitar, the one that was-- yeah.

[00:33:37] So in that, I remember, and I won't share much because I always hold all of this in such sacred space, but the one piece I'll speak to was that it's always intriguing when you see if there's like a collective theme that emerges in those multiple day ceremonies.

[00:33:55] And of course, people are on their own journeys, but sometimes there's a key word that's like, "Oh yeah. I was having visions of that too." And I remember that weekend, pride was spoken about a lot. And I was like, "Huh, that's an unexpected one to emerge." But in my own example of it, which when I say what I'm about to say, people listening might be like, that is such a odd example. What's the big deal?

[00:34:22] But for some reason, I was hitting up against so much resistance going to the main couple facilitators, this one male who, in my opinion, is a very masterful musician. And then the woman who was the head guide, it was in the night ceremony where grandmother medicine spoke to me and fixed my gaze onto that woman facilitator as she was singing and playing guitar.

[00:34:48] And grandmother said, "This is what's next for you." And I was just like, "Oh, what?" But I remember I felt so much resistance in the next morning of just going and asking them, releasing any pride and getting into just a humble, normal zone, and going and saying, "Hey, can you give me like some first step directives?"

[00:35:06] Grandmother told me I'm supposed to start playing guitar. I don't even know how to begin. Why would I hit up against resistance against asking a simple question like that? I don't know. But it was such major resistance that when I finally gathered the courage to walk across the ceremony space and sit in between both of them, I think at one point I even started crying because I was like-- and after I asked the question, I think they're both probably like, "Okay. Well, here." And they both gave their insight.

[00:35:37] But again, what you were just sharing about the humility piece, I think it is such an important one to get real with ourselves about because sometimes pride can be similar to anger in it's hiddenness and it's insidiousness that you might think like, oh, I don't have pride issues, or I'm not prideful about that.

[00:36:00] But if you really explore and really get into those nooks and crannies and crevices within your soul, I think you might be surprised. That's where anger hides. That's where pride hides. And so to your point, sometimes it's not about getting the holy grail, hearing from someone, this is what you have to do. And you're like, "Oh." The heavens part and you've cracked the code.

[00:36:25] Luke: I miss those days.

[00:36:27] Alyson: It's more about overcoming those hidden parts of pridefulness and just asking the question or just sharing what's on your heart with someone. Sometimes it's so simple.

[00:36:38] Luke: Yeah. I think there's a direct correlation too between prayer. Prayer is a great example of that because, I guess some people hear direct communication back. For me, I've never really had-- well, apart from in some experiences with medicine where some voice is telling me something very clearly and my prayers are "being answered."

[00:37:04] But generally speaking, if I'm in communication with God, I'm not getting a real direct sense of, do this. Don't do that. Call this person. Write this down. Here's a plan. I'm not getting a plan of action per se.

[00:37:18] Alyson: Oh, I do.

[00:37:19] Luke: You do. You're fortunate in that way. For me, I think it unfolds just in a very subtle, intuitive sense, maybe following that.

[00:37:29] But just like asking a friend for an ear and just allowing them to hear you out and what that vulnerability and humility opens up is the same opening that's created through prayer. It's just saying like, "God, I'm humbling myself. I'm allowing my pride and the defenses of my ego to be disarmed, and I'm just opening myself up."

[00:38:02] And it's not even what's said or what's received. It's just in the opening, create space for that magic or healing or wisdom or understanding to unfold. It's like a lot of it isn't even about the results of what you're told or what you get. It's about what I'm letting go of.

[00:38:22] Alyson: Yeah. The vision I got was liberating that pocket or that bubble that's been hiding or stored down deep. Finally, huh, it's relieved of its duties. And then once you liberate those pockets and bubbles, wow. Then your entire being takes on a new alchemy, a new formula. And then from that internal reshaping, recalibration, then yeah, the way that you're moving in life. I didn't even tell you this, I don't think, but I've had what I felt like a really profound experience yesterday at the DMV.

[00:39:06] Luke: It's a great place to have an awakening.

[00:39:07] Alyson: Yeah. Shout out to--

[00:39:10] Luke: Fertile territory for lessons.

[00:39:12] Alyson: It really was. I just was in such awe. Oh my gosh, yeah, I haven't spoken to this. It might be a little rambly. But I went in there alone, and I'm sitting in row two or three. And it's packed in there, jam packed. It's 10:30 in the morning. There's people standing against the wall. All seats, I think, were taken. People checking in at the computer kiosk.

[00:39:38] And it just was so profound for me. I was seeing humans through such a different lens and filter, and there was no judgment. It was really just all love. The woman at counter number four, the DMV employee at computer number four, when I looked at her, I thought, wow, I bet she's a really good friend.

[00:40:10] I just saw her and I thought, I can tell that that woman, if I needed something while I'm sitting here, if something happened, I could go to lady at number four and she would help me. And then I looked at the guy next to her as he was helping this other customer and it looked like in real life these two guys would be homies.

[00:40:31] Their interaction, even though I was far enough away, I couldn't hear a word they were saying, but I just got this like beautiful, harmonious vibe. Oftentimes you think when you go into the post office or the DMV that it's going to be a cranky experience and you got to like armor up because everybody's going to be grouchy.

[00:40:47] But for some reason I was able to experience the whole DMV of like the people I was sitting next to and the workers there. It was just all love. The DMV was filled with such love and it felt like such a miracle experience. Even this older woman sitting next to me overheard the conversation of the lady to my right.

[00:41:06] She was concerned because she didn't have much money and didn't have any cash. She called the worker over and was very worried about what it was going to cost to get her new ID or whatever. And he's like, "It's $16." And she was wondering if they took Venmo. It was a really sweet exchange. And the lady to my left leaned over and said, I helped a guy out when I was up there. He could only pay with his Venmo. So I had him Venmo me, and then I paid his DMV." Just a stranger.

[00:41:35] And so it was just this trippy, beautiful miracle awakening, love-filled DMV experience that I had. Even right now I feel the-- it's not just soul relief, but it's relief on a human level, on a mental, physical, spiritual soul level. That to me is saying something. It's saying something about my devotion and where I'm arriving to.

[00:42:03] It's saying something about all the work I put in those last two years of that darkest voyage, and that it wasn't for naught. It's moments like that that are miraculous where all of a sudden you realize you're experiencing yourself, you're experiencing life, you're experiencing a whole range of fellow human beings at the DMV with a completely different lens and feeling and perspective. And I was just like, "This is trippy."

[00:42:38] Luke: The power of perception. I think it was Wayne Dyer who said, "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." I used to experiment with that when I was first sober because I would go out into the world, and yeah, just going to the DMV, going to the bank, just interfacing in muggle clown world was so rife with conflict. I was so raw and irritated.

[00:43:06] Alyson: Edginess.

[00:43:07] Luke: Yeah, I was just so-- still full of so much resentment and just festering toxic emotions and thoughts. And I would go out into the world and everyone I would interact with would meet me on that level. Just drivers, and it's constant conflict.

[00:43:26] And as I started to slowly change the way I thought and start to understand the power of my thinking and really work on negative thoughts and self-talking and things like that, I would start to notice that on days when I did my spiritual practices in the morning and was really devotional and intentional about that, I would go out into the world and everyone I meet would be polite and kind and people weren't rushing me while I'm driving.

[00:43:56] And it was like I started to see there are two different worlds that exist simultaneously all the time. It's like this quantum entanglement thing. I started to play with that. Okay, what if I go out today and I let every driver that's trying to cut me off go ahead of me? Someone's pulling out of the gas station and I'm like, I don't want to let him go. It's going to slow me down by two seconds.

[00:44:14] I go, "Oh, no." I just stop. I wave everyone in and just be really kind and patient and do everything I can to resist any negative thought. And then all of a sudden, I'm out in the world and I'm in a completely different world where there's synchronicity and harmony and things seem to be now going my way.

[00:44:34] And I feel like I'm lucky instead of cursed. It's totally what I eventually started to find. And I'm still not perfect at it, of course, but most of the time now, the interactions I have out in the world and the matrix that could be extremely frustrating and irritating and full of assholes everywhere, aren't like that.

[00:44:56] But it's not that they've changed. It's just that I've changed. And so you went through these dark periods and have done your own inner work so that you go into that environment and there probably is another paradigm, another reality where everyone are assholes and everyone's pissed off and frustrated and selfish and mean.

[00:45:17] Alyson: I didn't see one second of that. Everybody was so nice-- even the other man.

[00:45:22] Luke: You have your rose-colored glasses, man. It really is true that we create our own reality because what is reality, but our perception? Everything that we see and experience and feel is based on the filters that allow it into our awareness, into our consciousness.

[00:45:42] Alyson: Yeah, because one example was, after I'd already been sitting there for 40-some minutes, a mother and her little boy came in and sat in the seats in front of me, and he was a little cutie. I don't know. I'm not great with kids ages, but I'm guessing three, four, something like that. And he had a little egg in his hand.

[00:46:01] And another DMV employee came over and was speaking Spanish to him and was like, "Oh, what's your toy?" And they were having a sweet, kind exchange. And then after that employee left, for some reason, that little boy just turned to me and waved to me just an-- I didn't even know that he knew I was sitting there and sitting behind them.

[00:46:25] But you know I love kids. And so we had a little cute, little smile and wave moment. And then he peeked back one or two more times. Yeah, just surrounded by really nice people helping strangers with Venmo payments at the DMV and little kids saying hi. And the workers were being super helpful. They were circulating around. Do you have any questions? Super kind, super helpful. Yeah, it was quite a trippy miracle of a DMV day.

[00:47:01] Luke: You turned the DMV into your church.

[00:47:04] Alyson: Yeah, it was like true heaven in there. Everyone was so--

[00:47:09] Luke: It's a spiritual temple. That's a good segue into one thing that I wanted to explore around the idea of prayer, and that is this idea of making your life a prayer. It's just like you're very being an expression of God, an expression as a prayer. It's like a devotional way of just existing in the world born out of that place of surrender.

[00:47:47] Like when we did our prayers this morning, there's a time set aside, and there's things we know we want to pray about mostly for other people that we know right now that are struggling or things that we need support with. And I think in the very beginning, because I had such a profound experience from my first authentic, no holding back full surrendered prayer that I discussed earlier, I think for a few years thought about prayer as something that's a set aside thing that you do.

[00:48:17] It's like an action versus just a way of being in the world. If you're in the DMV and you're not sitting there talking to God per se, but you're embodying that energy of prayer and devotion because you're setting the intention to see those people and that experience in a certain way, which is completely broad and inclusive and not a separate experience from when you did your prayers in the morning. It's a continuation of the time that you set aside to pray, but now it's just in your DNA and something that you're embodying. And because you're embodying it, it's radiating out into your experience.

[00:49:09] Alyson: So I feel that I've been living my life in prayer and as prayer for a long time or life as ceremony, others would say. But can you give one or two specific examples of what you mean by this? Because I genuinely want to know, and I can sense that there are the folks joining us that would be even more specifically curious, like, what do you mean?

[00:49:33] Take, for example, if you individually or us as a family do our morning prayers, what would be a way then that you're walking in the world differently based upon activating that prayer energy in the morning? Are you setting an intention to see through the eyes of love or the beauty way, setting an intention that you see the beauty and all things and all people that day? Is there a specific prayer essence of embodiment that you are then going about that day with, or what do you mean exactly?

[00:50:08] Luke: Exactly that. To me, the whole game here, as I understand it, in January, 2025 on earth is to learn how to love and not in the sense of like romantic love, but to learn how to more consistently love all of reality, all of creation.

[00:50:33] And so a set aside time of prayer as a practice, like we did this morning, for example, is setting a foundation so that I have a template of what that feels like, say, to be connected to you in our holy union and to invite God into that union and to set our intentions and dreams and express gratitude and thanks for all of the abundance we have in our lives and that we have each other, all of those things that are communicated via words.

[00:51:06] That is the foundation so that when I sit here and have a podcast with you that I'm in love with the experience of just being here. I'm in love with you. I'm in love with Jarrod. I'm in love with the microphone, my Update drink, our beautiful home. It's like an underlying feeling of permanent gratitude and appreciation just for the fact that my heart is beating. And so the prayer, as I go through my life, say I run some errands today and I go to the little pack mail place down the street where I spend a lot of time--

[00:51:44] Alyson: Shout out to them, the Indian family. We love you.

[00:51:47] Luke: They seem to doing a lot of notarizing things.

[00:51:49] Alyson: They know our address, our names. We're tight with them.

[00:51:53] Luke: I send a lot of certified mail out. So I go in there, and because I'm not captured in my own selfishness and my own false perception of the world and reality, I go in there having set the foundation of, wow, the purpose of my life today is to embody love and to express love and gratitude in a very real, tangible way, then I'm in that space like you were in the DMV.

[00:52:24] And my living prayer is that I'm having warm feelings for everything and everyone in that experience. And not only is that change in the reality where the impatient, bitchy person comes in and is interrupting the field. It's like that person might come in the door and just be enveloped in the field in a way that they're changed just by the fact that they're in the presence of that living prayer, not because I have some magical powers.

[00:52:56] It's just the power of love and the power of gratitude. And so, to me, that's what my living prayer is, is just a sense of love and appreciation for my life and for the fact that I'm here breathing air. And anytime that I struggle, it's directly traceable to my forgetfulness of that reality, of that fact. When I start to recede back into fear, anxiety, being bothered by people, being resentful of people, resistance, any discomfort I find is because I'm resisting something.

[00:53:43] Alyson: The crunch.

[00:53:43] Luke: Yeah, the crunch is just I'm--

[00:53:45] Alyson: Captain Crunch.

[00:53:47] Luke: Captain Crunch. I'm clinging on to something I have an attachment to.

[00:53:50] Alyson: One of my favorite cereals growing up, just FYI.

[00:53:53] Luke: God. Peanut butter Captain Crunch? Come on.

[00:53:55] Alyson: No, regular. Regular over here. Just straight regular Captain Crunch.

[00:53:59] Luke: Wasn't there a Captain Crunch that was all the berries eventually? Because I used to pick the berry ones out.

[00:54:05] Alyson: What was the berry Captain Crunch called?

[00:54:07] Luke: I think Berry Crunch or something. Then they came out with the one that was all berries. And I was like--

[00:54:11] Alyson: I didn't like the berry. I was always disappointed if I sat a summer party to friends and they only had the berry Crunch.

[00:54:17] Luke: Can you imagine what was in that shit?

[00:54:19] Alyson: Greatness. Back in the day, the cereal wasn't as janky and nasty as it is now.

[00:54:26] Luke: You just reminded me of something. I used to make these things. I later called them white trash doughnuts, but we used to take-- this is back in the late '70s. My mom, thankfully, shopped at the health food store, so we never had Wonder Bread or white sugar, none of this stuff was in our house.

[00:54:45] We had granola and whatever. But I had these friends, Joey and Tony Conti, and they had more money than us. We were pretty poor, but they had a big house, and they were the first people that had a Betamax and Atari and a big screen TV and a swimming pool and stuff.

[00:55:03] Alyson: But those young enough, you'll have to Google those words and find out.

[00:55:07] Luke: And they had regular food, junk food. And so when I'd go over there, we'd take Wonder Bread. And for those that haven't had Wonder Bread, it's moist. So you can roll it--

[00:55:18] Alyson: So soft. It's almost like dough.

[00:55:19] Luke: You can make a ball out of it, right?

[00:55:21] Alyson: Yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:55:21] Luke: So we would take Wonder Bread, two slices, and we would put a tablespoon or so of margarine in the middle and then pour a bunch of white sugar and then roll it up in a ball and then put it in the microwave.

[00:55:33] Alyson: In the microwave? Not even the oven?

[00:55:35] Luke: Yeah. And heat it up and get it just all gooey.

[00:55:38] Alyson: Oh my God.

[00:55:40] Luke: Yeah.

[00:55:40] Alyson: I thought you were going to say that you then covered and pushed pieces of Captain Crunch all around the outside of the--

[00:55:46] Luke: I already moved past the Captain Crunch. We had to take it to the next level. Those are my white trash donuts.

[00:55:52] Alyson: Tasty. I do like a good donut.

[00:55:55] Luke: If anyone wants the recipe, we'll put it in the show notes at lukestorey.com/584.

[00:55:59] Alyson: I would recommend smooshing pieces of Captain Crunch into the outside of the donut.

[00:56:03] Luke: Yeah. Add a little texture to it.

[00:56:04] Alyson: Yeah, a little crunch.

[00:56:06] Luke: Yeah.

[00:56:06] Alyson: One thing that I am perturbed by with where we live is that there are no good doughnuts anywhere. I have a big problem with this. I really love a Boston Cream. I really love, what do you call those, a chocolate Long John with that white creamy filling. Oh my God. I love a chocolate icing donut or roll. Yeah, Boston Cream.

[00:56:34] Luke: Here's what I'm voting for. We're in a food desert where we live in the outskirts of Austin anyway. There's not a lot of healthy food, but I too love donuts. But the real move on donuts is organic, non-glyphosate flour. It's got gluten, but we could probably deal with that.

[00:56:53] Alyson: Rough start here, but keep going.

[00:56:55] Luke: No, just good, pure flour. Maybe some heirloom grain from Europe. Old-school flour, unadulterated, not hybridized. And then whatever sugar. And then the key though, is the fat to fry them in tallow instead of canola oil.

[00:57:12] Alyson: Okay. I'll give it a shot.

[00:57:14] Luke: They probably taste way better too.

[00:57:17] Alyson: Maybe, but back to the prayer--

[00:57:22] Luke: Let's pray for healthy donuts. Lord, please.

[00:57:26] Alyson: I also want to make sure they're good. Because you got to have that yellowy Bavarian cream. I can't stand date-based desserts. Ugh.

[00:57:39] Luke: Dates are gross.

[00:57:41] Alyson: But there's so many of those "healthy" desserts. They all have dates in them.

[00:57:45] Luke: Dates are nasty.

[00:57:46] Alyson: They're so gross.

[00:57:47] Luke: Full of histamines too.

[00:57:48] Alyson: Yeah. And also, the shiny stuff that gives people kidney stones.

[00:57:54] Luke: Oxalates.

[00:57:54] Alyson: That.

[00:57:55] Luke: Oxalic acid.

[00:57:56] Alyson: Weem all. But with the prayer piece, I love praying so much, and I'm currently working on quite a sacred share, but I'm working on a new vow for myself, a new vow for my life, a new vow for how I walk in this world. And it hasn't come into crystal clarity yet, but I'm on that journey of arriving to what is the new vow that I'm taking.

[00:58:31] And I'm really excited about it. I've been tuning in for the last week or so, and I'm such a clearly connected person. I thought that I would do one tune in and boom, vow arrived. Spot on. Nailed it. Good to go.

[00:58:46] And it's been more of a journey for me of just like, oh let's test out this word. How does that word feel to be a part of my new vow? And it's like, oh, that's close, but that's not quite it. And then I'll tune into the vow and I'll feel like my heart opened. And I'm like, "Oh." It's my vow, something about open heartedness. And then I'll peer into that a little bit more like, no, that's not quite it. So that's been the voyage I've been on, but I'm on a vow voyage, and I'm very excited about it.

[00:59:12] Luke: Do you think of your personal vow as a mission statement, how a company would have a mission statement? Like, this is our intention. This is what we're all about.

[00:59:24] Alyson: I guess, yeah. Ultimately, it feels in a very different vein, of course, than that just because I get a little bit of a ugh with him, comparing it to a mission statement. But I get your point. I get what you're trying to say with that. And so, yeah, I guess you could view it as something similar to that, but a bit more sacred or unified with God than what most businesses make their mission statements to be.

[00:59:55] But yeah, it's like I'm in part of my journey to arriving to what this vow is and getting clarity. One thread that I'm investigating is reflecting on some of the main God-given gifts that I have that have already been operating and functioning for a long time.

[01:00:14] Basically, if I could write down on a list the top two or three ways that I feel I'm most easily and powerfully able to be of service for others, the way that I, even without being invasive, just spot people's blind spots and shadow components, the things that are really holding them back in life, the key to the treasure chest mode.

[01:00:36] So there's like potential in this vow, having something in that vein held within it. So that's one way I'm tracking into the vow clarity, is the gifts that God has given me that have already stood the test of time and have a lot of evidence and proof for being effective and empowering for other people. How could I look at that and then put that into a vow statement? But I haven't cracked the code yet.

[01:01:09] Luke: Yeah, I don't know that I have either. I think I haven't used the word vow, but just my purpose, what I'm here to do had a lot to do with alleviating suffering. And a lot of what this podcast is about is empowering people to find ways to get themselves out of whatever form of suffering they happen to be in, whether it's physical health or emotional, mental, psychological, spiritual.

[01:01:46] But as I've tried that on recently, there's something about it. It's like praying for what you don't want. It's like I don't even want to emphasize or put energy into the suffering. It's like, well, if the suffering was absent, what would be there in it's place. So I think I'm leaning more towards something about like, what do we want and what do I want for myself and for my fellow humans. It's not that, ooh, I want to get rid of this thing that is undesirable. What's the thing that we desire? And I don't know that I've arrived there.

[01:02:30] Alyson: Yeah. One possibility that isn't totally it, but just that simple statement of may all beings be happy and free. Could that be my vow? Because I do ultimately want that. That is of service. That is in the grandest totality, divine God, goddess, web workings, that serves all across all time and space, living for the eternal.

[01:02:54] Something that coincides with that would be wanting all beings to be happy and free, because that literally serves that person. It serves every person that person comes into contact with. It serves every place that person goes into. It serves all in the grandest scope. But that still wasn't quite it either. So TBD on the vow.

[01:03:14] Luke: Yeah, keep us posted.

[01:03:15] Alyson: And you know, I live in devotion. But to me, living in devotion and having a specific vow feel a bit different. So I live in devotion to God, pure love, most benevolent, divine. I always have to say that first because I'm very specific about who I'm speaking to, who I'm calling in for my prayers.

[01:03:36] I personally never just say God, because there are various forms of gods, some of them of darker textures. So I personally, when I'm praying, always specifically call in pure love, most benevolent divine God, goddess. Always start my prayers that way. But I live in accordance to what that God I just named instructs me to do. So I lived in devotion in that way. And of course, also honoring my own soul and mother earth. But this vow is a more specific statement, I feel.

[01:04:12] Luke: You reminded me of something that I wanted to touch on because I just take it for granted that people listening to this podcast or people that are in our similar worldview just have no problem with the idea of God or talking about prayer. And I know there was a time in my life where I would associate the word God with some religious connotation and bristle against that.

[01:04:40] So early on, because my introduction to God was through a recovery, a higher power was much more palatable to me, especially because it was framed that it could be a higher power of my own choosing and my own understanding, and there was nothing forced upon me, which was good for my ego that would fight against that.

[01:05:02] Now, God is like a very simple, direct term. So I don't have a problem with that. But the idea of prayer could be repugnant to people for whom God was introduced to them through some abusive or, I don't know, shame-based religious structure or something that was forced upon them or bestowed upon them by their family system or culture.

[01:05:30] And therefore prayer could be seen in the context of something that they were made to do and not done based on their own volition. So one of the things that's been most incredible for me and so liberating around those kind of restrictions is that God's complete, built-in forgiveness and reciprocity and receptivity in that prayers work even when you don't believe in God. God works even when you don't believe in prayer.

[01:06:17] And this is another just incredible teaching from the 12 Steps. It's in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. I think it's in the chapter We Agnostics. And it says something to the effect, I'm going to paraphrase because I don't have the book in front of me, but it says that it's not necessary that you believe in God for God to help you.

[01:06:40] And I think that was one of the key gifts in those first attempts I had at prayer. I literally didn't know what I was praying to. I had less than zero faith that it was going to work, but I was just so desperate that I was willing to try it because I tried everything else. And even though I didn't know who I was praying to, what I was doing, how to do, and definitely really didn't think it was going to work, having it work is minimizing it.

[01:07:11] But the desired outcome in that particular case was that I was liberated and free from the bondage that I'd found myself in. And even though I didn't know how to do it, I didn't believe it was going to work, it still worked. I think it worked just because I was approaching it from a place of true humility.

[01:07:31] And so that's something that I remind myself of often when I'm in a tight spot and I'm like, "Man, I need answers. I need some wisdom here. I need some power to work through a problem." Is that even if I'm still in the midst of that struggle and logically, it seems like there's no way this ambiguous, nebulous God concept is going to help me or can help me, that just by my asking for help, the prayer has already been answered and that it's not important that I have any faith whatsoever that it's going to work.

[01:08:13] It's just the act of doing it. And that's been so helpful to me and something that's proven itself over and over and over again, and is more true, I think, when I can remain unattached of the results of whatever it is that I'm asking for. Because sometimes, say I'm asking for help with a particular problem or a place in which I feel stuck.

[01:08:43] I might not get an immediate solution to that problem, or I might get a solution to that problem that wasn't the one that I had planned, but always in hindsight looking back, if I was up against something that I was challenged by, and I surrendered myself to it and asked God for help, even though I didn't fully have faith that God would help, 100% of the time if I look back, in one way or another, whether it was directly or indirectly, I was able to move through that thing and overcome it, even though I didn't believe it was going to happen.

[01:09:21] Alyson: It's already solved.

[01:09:22] Luke: Yeah, it's already solved. We talked about that last time. So I think, to me, if I was listening to this and I'm like, "Yeah, I tried the God thing. It doesn't work. Prayer is lame. It's religious." Whatever. Just know that it works whether or not you think it's going to work or not. It's not faith dependent, in other words. Because I think that the unconditional love presence, the energy of creation, of God of Consciousness, however you want to name it it's not conditional.

[01:09:53] It's not, I'm going to help this poor human that's reaching out to me, coming from God. Because they have enough faith, I'm solely availing myself to them and helping just by the mere fact that they've humbled themselves and have allowed me in. Because we have this free will, God's not going to intervene and start solving my problems or helping me or directing my thoughts or feelings or actions without my permission.

[01:10:22] Everything in the world is based on trust law. And if I'm just saying, hey, I don't really have complete faith that this prayer is going to reach the entity that I'm sending it to, or that it's going to be answered, just by the very fact that I've done it makes it work and validates it. It's such a beautiful aspect of God.

[01:10:46] Alyson: Beautiful.

[01:10:46] Luke: Yeah. That God doesn't require our faith in order to support and help us.

[01:10:52] Alyson: Yeah, it makes me think of this-- what was this fire sticks plant? Gosh. Darn it. It's called, something bones, party bones.

[01:11:04] Luke: I don't remember.

[01:11:06] Alyson: Gosh. Darn it. It's this really cool succulent type of plant that we have here in between Luke and I right now. It's something bones. That's going to drive me nuts. I wonder if Jarrod can Google it.

[01:11:17] Luke: I like this plant because it doesn't need a lot of water.

[01:11:21] Alyson: Well, it does need. I can tell it needs water, actually.

[01:11:23] Luke: It's harder to kill than some of the other plants in the house.

[01:11:25] Alyson: But yeah, it's like people coming up here and sitting in these chairs, Mr. Party Bones here is only going to douse you with love and not me and not Cookie. Party Bones, here, is unconditionally loving.

[01:11:40] Another message that God or Paige-- actually, it's Paige Britt. But it was either her or God who was speaking to me early one morning through my clairaudience and another message that came in recently that's been really supportive and I wanted to share in case it's in support to anyone else is a very short phrase. Keep it simple. Soft. Keep it simple. Soft.

[01:12:14] And even when you hear me say that, do you feel-- just keep it simple. Soft. It's such a helpful reminder. As you are moving out about your day and out in the world, if you can just remind yourself of that, just keep it simple and soft. It's very nice.

[01:12:41] Luke: I've been a student of "keep it simple" for a long time, but I didn't have the "soft" part. When someone first told me to keep it simple, they said, "Keep it simple, stupid."

[01:12:50] Alyson: Mine is soft. That's funny.

[01:12:52] Luke: That's some tough love in early recovery there. So Paige, interesting, human being there.

[01:13:04] Alyson: Yeah. It's a good word for it.

[01:13:07] Luke: Yeah. A mutual friend introduced you to Paige and you reached out and said, "Hey. Urgent. I need some guidance here." And you went and saw her and Alyson came back and was like, "Whoa, that was a really wild experience." And relayed your first session with her.

[01:13:23] She's here outside of Austin. And she said, yeah. I'm busy. I'm not fully present, but I remember one thing you said, "Yeah, she invokes the medicine field, but you're not using any medicine. But it's fairly deep and things get very interesting." And I was like, "Oh, that's cool."

[01:13:42] And I thought, well, it probably works for you because you're more receptive to those kind of energies. But then when I went and saw her, I'm just letting go of all expectations and just have a seat across from her in her session room there. And I'm just completely open and not having any attachment or expectations or even know exactly what I'm doing there. I just want to experience this person.

[01:14:09] Alyson: Yeah, you didn't because I booked the session for you and I was like, "We're going over here."

[01:14:13] Luke: Yeah. Was it for my Christmas present?

[01:14:14] Alyson: Yeah.

[01:14:14] Luke: Was that what it was? Yeah. So anyway, long story short, not a lot of talking happening. She just says, "Okay, this is what's going to happen in the session." It was an hour long and we're seated on cushions across from one another. And we just go through the formalities of, here's what's going to happen. And I'm just sitting there breathing.

[01:14:34] I'm just in a meditative, very still receptive place. And I'm looking at her. She has short, gray hair and light blue eyes and the room is a white paint and there's a pastel-colored mandala painting behind her on the wall. And I'm just sitting there waiting to see what happens.

[01:14:58] And we're just eye gazing and setting the grid or the tone for the session. And all of a sudden, man, it's crazy, dude. Everything starts turning white and she starts becoming-- she's wearing this color, a light blue shirt. She's got these blue eyes, and all of a sudden her eyes, her light blue shirt, the mandala on the wall, everything that's colored starts to turn white.

[01:15:31] It's like a fog rolled in the room. And I have my glasses on too because sometimes without them, if someone's a few feet away, things get a little blurry and I didn't want anything to be blurry. But I got my glasses on, and so I know it's not my vision acting weird, but the room got very, very trippy. And I would say psychedelic, but not in the sense of a lot of bells and whistles or extra stuff. Actually, more of a subtraction. Actually, less in the visual field to the point where everything became just diffuse.

[01:16:13] Alyson: It's pure God field.

[01:16:15] Luke: Yeah. It was really interesting. And I'm sitting there going like, "What is happening? Did I take some mushrooms this morning?" No, I didn't take anything. It was quite profound and really, really nice. And then there was a bit of talking, and she would ask me questions about what I was experiencing and things like that. But it wasn't like the--

[01:16:36] Alyson: Did you ever say in the session that you saw everything go white?

[01:16:39] Luke: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think my answer is when she said, "Okay, what are you experiencing?" Which she asked me quite a few times. And usually just one word would come up, but yeah, I think the first one was like, "A lot of white." Yeah.

[01:16:53] Alyson: I had that the first time. I won't share too much because it's such sacred time with her. And I know we're being honoring and respectful of her, but I just want to take it a little dose at a time talking about her. I know she's, yeah, ready to-- she does teacher trainings and things that you have to apply for, but yeah, yeah.

[01:17:19] As my relationship with her is still developing, I don't want to say too much yet, but yeah, the first session I had with her, as soon as that experience that you're referring to happened and she was like, "What do you notice?" I'm like, "I'm in heaven." It's the heaven field. It's the miracle field.

[01:17:37] And your soul knows that field, obvi. And so the second that she opens that up, which she's very masterful in a lot of ways, so she can do it whenever she needs to or feels called to. And so, yeah, the second that that opened, I just knew. I was like, "I'm in heaven. I'm with God. Wow."

[01:18:04] It's very cool to share space with her because it's a wide range of experiences one can have. But I'm so elated to remember that space and that state of being that we all are capable of attuning to. And my heart gets so happy that I laugh a lot. My heart is just so elated that when she pops that field open, I start to laugh and giggle and my heart is just like gee. It's such a specific heart happiness to have that remembrance again of that possibility.

[01:18:45] And I feel like one other little nugget wanted to be shared. Oh, it was just so funny because I'd worked with her, I don't know, three, four times before I took you over for your Christmas present session with her. And so I was just super curious if you were going to see it, feel it, because our gifts work so differently, you and I.

[01:19:08] So it was just hilarious when you walked out of the room when it was done. And she's much shorter than you and she was trailing behind you and you just looked at me and silently mouthed, "What the fuck?" Your eyes were huge and you just mouthed that and then she headed to the bathroom and you came to where I was because I was going to my session after yours and you were just like, "The whole room went white." And I was like, "Yes." So I was happy that you were able to see that and experience that.

[01:19:37] Luke: Yeah, me too. Again, I tried to not have expectations, but I probably would have been a little disappointed if I walked out and was like, "What was Alyson talking about? Everything seemed normal to me." Because I've only had that type of experience once without any psychedelics or anything.

[01:20:00] I saw a healer in LA who did some different types of breath work and things like that. And it was a full-on DMT situation. Just stone cold sober. But that was the only time in my life other than I think in the years I was doing a lot of Kundalini yoga and some of the workshops and the deeper practices I had some altered states of consciousness, but still not quite to that point.

[01:20:29] Alyson: And you and I, without medicine, have had medicine-y things too, but hers is of a different texture.

[01:20:36] Luke: Yeah. And also eyes open is different too. We've had experiences together where I'm like, "Are you seeing what I'm seeing?" And there's a, I don't know, mushroom-esque visual little, colorful, kaleidoscopic things popping in here and there. And I've had that in Joe Dispenza workshops and things like that, but this was much different because it's like, I'm totally sober. I'm totally present. I'm just sitting here looking at someone across from me and it's like, what is happening? We haven't done anything. There's no breath or movement or anything that instigated this altered state. The altered state is just--

[01:21:16] Alyson: Yeah, you're just sitting in miracles.

[01:21:17] Luke: Just opening the portal. But one of the things that was going on with me is I kept thinking like, how the hell is she doing this? How does she do that? It's wild. And that's what I asked her afterward, after we were done, I was like, "All right. How did you learn this shit? What are you doing?"

[01:21:35] It was just so interesting to me. And as a true master, she has no pride or egoic relationship with that gift to her. It's just like, duh, that's just what you do. And everyone can do it. I just happened to train for some years to learn how to really bring it on demand kind of. So yeah, I'm looking forward to getting to know her more and doing more work with her.

[01:22:01] Alyson: Yeah, yeah. I really, really enjoy her. And yeah, I look forward to more times with her. They're already booked and scheduled. And her next training is happening in Asheville. So I guess if you're in that neck of the woods, you could check out--

[01:22:21] Luke: And we'll her site in the show notes.

[01:22:23] Alyson: I got to give her a heads up that she might be getting some inquiries. She's going to be like, "What's happening?" No, it's great. She's a bit off the cuff. So my only hesitancy was just trying to tune into what I needed to honor for her. But yeah, she has a website. She's a public teacher. She does teacher trainings. So yeah, it's all good.

[01:22:47] I just needed to tune into that in real time while we were talking because I'm like, "Wait, she's a bit more off the grid." But it's not like she's in a cave hiding her work. So yeah, it's all good that we're talking about her. I just want to text her and be like, "Hey, just FYI, might be some folks checking your work out."

[01:23:05] Luke: Yeah, I hope so. The world needs more authentic healers and teachers. There's a lot of--

[01:23:14] Alyson: Absolutely. Very integrity-filled--

[01:23:15] Luke: There's a lot of people out there glomming on to the trendy wave of spirituality and all the things. So when you meet someone who's very authentic and grounded, they really stand out.

[01:23:30] Alyson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. She does. She did for me.

[01:23:34] Luke: Who had funny business out there.

[01:23:38] Alyson: It's spooky, spooky, funny business.

[01:23:41] Luke: A lot of people cashing in on the spiritual seekers out there.

[01:23:46] Alyson: Oof. Yeah. Ick.

[01:23:48] Alyson: I feel like we've been gone for a long time.

[01:23:53] Luke: We have. There's one thing I want to tease, and I've got a show I'm going to devote to it coming up soon, but that was my recent trip to a place called Holon.

[01:24:02] Alyson: Right, we didn't even get to that.

[01:24:04] Luke: In Nevada city, California. I'm just thinking of top of mind what's exciting so far this year. And I did that in December, right?

[01:24:12] Alyson: Mm-hmm.

[01:24:13] Luke: Before Christmas. And it was a few days of really powerful emotional, psychological, spiritual work. Holon is a neurofeedback-based personal growth experience/retreat in Nevada city outside of Sacramento. Really cool little town. I felt so good there. In fact, I really want to go visit and explore there more because I was just in their facility the whole time.

[01:24:45] I really didn't leave apart from a couple of walks. I've done a lot of neurofeedback and I've done a prior podcast about it, so those long time listeners will be no stranger. But essentially, it's a form of brain training that is, I would say most commonly used for high performance, cognitive function, and recovery from some issues, TBIs and just cognitive impairment.

[01:25:15] So it's a really good way to repair the brain on the gross physical level. But the way they approach it is more so like one would approach the intentional use of plant medicines or psychedelics or something like that. You're doing work on some of the emotional blocks or mental blocks that you want to overcome, but you're doing so with the assistance of very sophisticated cutting-edge science.

[01:25:46] And so you're able to go into really deep meditative states, gamma brainwaves, theta brainwaves, alpha brainwaves. And so you're essentially training the brain to operate in a different capacity and also developing, growing new neurons. So you're actually really changing the brain based on neuroplasticity in a very intentional and specific way.

[01:26:14] And so that was a really beautiful and I would say just transformative experience, from which I'm still integrating and allowing that neuroplasticity to now settle because it's three to six months after you go do that is when the real changes take place. But I've noticed subtle things in my experience that are really interesting.

[01:26:45] One is that despite the fact that I have really talked about a lot, I have a lot of ringing going on in my ears all the time, nonstop. So it's difficult for me to be in silence because it's hard to ignore that sound. But I have found since going to Holon, despite the fact that it's very noisy in my head, I do appreciate the quiet more and find myself less frantic trying to distract myself from that particular issue.

[01:27:21] So I was hoping that I'd walk out of there and just be like, wow, my tinnitus is gone. We adjusted my brain. And that hasn't been the case so far, but I would say the way that I'm learning to live with it and my perception of it in the way that I'm interfacing with that particular issue, is improved a lot.

[01:27:40] So I'm excited to interview Dr. Amy and Dr. Drew, the two co-founders. So we'll be doing a deep dive on that. But I think in the recent past, that was probably the most impactful thing that I've done that I'm excited about.

[01:27:56] Alyson: Yeah, it's beautiful. You definitely felt different. As soon as you got back, I just can't remember now the examples, but right away in the days after you got back home, I was just like, "Oh my gosh, you're acting very different." In certain scenarios where I got very acclimated to you responding like X and Y, as soon as you walked in the door from that place, it was like you were having a response of category A. And I was like, "Oh, that's different."

[01:28:27] Luke: Yeah. I think I just feel more chill overall. There's less kind of frantic busyness energy. I'm having an easier time just pacing myself on a day-to-day basis. And I don't know, I just feel more mellow.

[01:28:43] Alyson: That's good.

[01:28:43] Luke: Yeah, so that's an exciting thing I'm looking forward to sharing more.

[01:28:48] Alyson: Great. Well, this was fun. Thanks for inviting me back.

[01:28:53] Luke: So we're going to get out of here now. We're going to go buy our--

[01:28:57] Alyson: Yeah, we're a little late to the party, but yeah, we're finally going to go get wedding bands. When we got married in Vegas a few years ago, it was a very spontaneous decision to have Elvis marry us. That was not the plan when we headed off to Vegas to give our talks at the psychedelic conference.

[01:29:18] But we were like, "Oh, we're in Vegas. People get married in an hour here. We could do that." And so we did. So we did not have wedding bands at that time, and we never got them. So that was part of the tuning into 2025. It's like I wanted to celebrate more, actually having a wedding where people other than an Elvis impersonator and attendance is another one and going and getting our wedding bands. Just catching up on our celebrations.

[01:29:48] Luke: Yeah, yeah. We've been wanting to have a real wedding for years. Part of it is just like we're busy and whatever. And another part it, honestly--

[01:29:58] Alyson: And we're already married.

[01:29:59] Luke: Yeah. The other part is we live in Texas and the weather here is only hospitable for short periods in the spring and fall. Otherwise, it's hot as shit or cold as shit.

[01:30:09] Alyson: You get really specific. And then those "wedding seasons" here are really booked because it's only four weeks out of the year where it's like, oh, it's really beautiful to be outside. It's more than four weeks, but you know what I mean?

[01:30:21] Luke: Yeah. So this is the year we're going to get married again for the, I don't know how many times.

[01:30:25] Alyson: We had our TP spiritual wedding that also was completely spontaneous, completely unplanned, completely all God-led. And then the Vegas Elvis was completely spontaneous, unplanned and completely God-led. And now we'll have our third different type. And shout out to Anvil + Aura. I didn't even plan this, but I had a dream that I was supposed to start wearing bear claws.

[01:30:49] So I sourced a couple of bear claws from some natives in Canada and then I went to some beautiful women who own this shop near us called Anvil + Aura, and they can make custom jewelry. And I came up with these random bear claws, said I had a dream, the prophecy, and I was like, "Can you help me turn them into necklaces?" She's like, "We'd love to." So I created two very different styles of bear claw necklaces with them. And we're going to see if we can have them make our wedding bands.

[01:31:15] Luke:  Anvil + Aura. Bee Cave, Texas.

[01:31:19] Alyson: Yeah. And so I'll just leave the last little thing that I'll toss in if it resonates. I think as this episode wraps maybe spend a couple of minutes in meditation and ask yourself, what does God want for me? And if you have a personal direct relationship to pure love, most benevolent, divine God, goddess, you could just ask, pure love, God goddess, what do you want for me? What do you want for me?

[01:31:50] I'm going to do it right now, actually. Let me see if an answer comes in. Interesting. I got a clear vision. I don't know if I'll be able to articulate it, but God showed me some really crunchy, bright orange carrots and me chomping into the carrots. And this is where it's might be hard to articulate, but I was like, "What do you mean?" When I'm shown visions from God, usually it's something more symbolic like that.

[01:32:22] And then there's a next question of like, what do you mean by that? And that's usually how the animals present too. The animal show up doing something. And then I'm just like, "What are you trying to say by showing me this?" And God was explaining, sometimes as you're going through life, you'll get the carrot dangle test. You'll get the carrot danglers where it's like you have a certain goal or intention or prayer in life and then you'll hit up against a certain initiation or a test and a carrot will come dangling.

[01:32:56] Luke: It's like a distraction, temptation kind of thing.

[01:33:00] Alyson: It can be that. Yeah, something to pull you out of that-- literally, the attainment of that prayer, that goal is right behind the carrot dangler. And so it was basically God saying, where I'm at right now in life-- see, this is where I don't know if I can put words to it. But it's about me taking the essences that one used to view being held in those carrot danglers as something that's nerve wracking or fear-based, like a test.

[01:33:42] And it's like now I'm at the point in life and my own evolution where I can eat those carrots. I chomp those carrots, and I'm able to healthily metabolize and healthily integrate the thing that I maybe at one point would have been afraid of. Does that make any sense?

[01:33:59] Luke: Mm-hmm. I think you might have picked up on something subconscious from me too, because I keep meaning to tell you, I want to buy carrots so we can eat the Ray Peat carrot salads. It's a whole other thing.

[01:34:12] Alyson: Okay. So on a spiritual, and earthly level--

[01:34:14] Luke: I'm supposed to be eating carrot salad.

[01:34:16] Alyson: Well, I saw the carrots, so there we go.

[01:34:19] Luke: On that like temptation, it's like sometimes you have an intention or a goal, whether it's a relationship, a job, etc., then a shiny thing shows up. And sometimes that thing shows up as an opportunity for you to practice discernment and to be able to resist the temptation, even though on its surface, it seems like what you want and need, but there's that still small voice within that's like, hmm.

[01:34:49] Alyson: But you still could classify as temptation, but it's a test or an initiation for you to hold the line. And I think of both myself and another dear sister who we both come from the television world in New York City. I had left one of my production jobs for a talk show I used to work on in New York.

[01:35:13] We didn't know each other at the time, but she actually then got the job that I had left from and sat in the actual chair that I had been sitting in. It's Melisa Ruiz. Anyways, we both in our own unique ways have stories as we were trying to extricate ourselves from that whole world and follow our callings.

[01:35:37] And we did it in different, different times and timelines, but yeah. And I don't want to misspeak her story, but as she was trying to get out of TV land and she had worked for MTV and stuff and forged her own path, she got a huge offer at one point. I actually don't want to say the production company or the network because I could be wrong, but a big place circled back around with a major carrot dangler and was like, are you sure you're wanting to leave TV? Because here's the biggest salary you've ever been offered, and it's also a fun show.

[01:36:10] Because also in TV, it's a roll of the dice if the show you're going to be producing is actually fun or not, or actually a healthy working environment or not. It's a real crap shoot. And it seemed to have all of those "good things" in it, but she was able to turn it down. And now she's years in of creating her own spiritual brand. But yeah, it's stuff like that where it's in temptation.

[01:36:32] Luke: My younger brother, Andy, he does graphic design and works remotely, but he's been looking for a steady gig and he texted me a couple of weeks ago and was like, "Oh man, I'm torn. I just got a job offer with this mass--" He does movie posters and things like that. Really talented artist. And he got this job offer, the dream job. Pays well. It's the kind of work he likes to do. He's good at this work. They're really excited to work with him. Caveat is he would have to move to New York City.

[01:37:08] Alyson: Hmm.

[01:37:11] Luke: I'm trying to be the supportive big brother. I'm like, "Hey, man. Good for you. Do you really want to move to New York City?" He's like, "No." He's already lived there. He's not a fan at this point. I didn't tell him what to do. I just said, "Hey, whatever you do, I support you." And he ended up turning that job down reluctantly.

[01:37:30] And then two weeks later, a couple of days ago, he's like, "Oh my God. Guess what? I got hired by the biggest and best company in LA, and they're going to get me an office here where I live in Colorado and pay for it. And I'm going to do my work from here where I choose to live at an even better job."

[01:37:48] Alyson: There you go.

[01:37:48] Luke: That's that example.

[01:37:49] Alyson: Eat those carrots. Chomp down on those carrot danglers.

[01:37:54] Luke: I love those experiences when there's the shiny thing and you're like, "Ah, there's something in my gut." My intuition's like, "Ah, as hard as it is to pass on this, I'm going to let it go."

[01:38:02] Alyson: You got to go to the deepest bowels to hold that line.

[01:38:06] Luke: And then boom, the real opportunity shows up right behind it.

[01:38:09] Alyson: But maybe the carrot chomping and healthy metabolizing and embodying integration message will pertain to someone listening and they'll know to hold the line right now.

[01:38:23] Luke: Amen. Also, ask what you can do for God, not what God can do for you.

[01:38:30] Alyson: That is a good way to start prayers now.

[01:38:32] Luke: I think a famous politician said something like that about your country.

[01:38:36] Alyson: But it is a fair point because-- and this is the last thing I'll say. We've been trying to wrap this episode up for a half hour now. But I think sometimes, because prayer is so beautiful and fun, I think it is important to remember oftentimes to lead with giving thanks to God first.

[01:38:54] And also, when working with fire ceremony, to also remember once you get sacred grandfire going, before you start asking the fire and God to answer all these prayers and placing in the offerings for things to be given to you or other people, it's like, begin that ceremony time, begin your prayer time with first bowing in humility and honor to the fire, bowing in humility and honor to pure love God, goddess first.

[01:39:28] And beginning from that space of gratitude and giving thanks to them and sending love back their way before it's like, now give, give, give, take, take, take. So what you said, even though you're kind of joking, it actually is true.

[01:39:42] Luke: It is. Let's go get our wedding rings.

[01:39:44] Alyson: Yeah. Bye-bye.