[00:00:00] Luke Storey: Micah, what's up, man? Great to meet you.

[00:00:07] Micah Lowe: Yeah, you too. I'm super happy to meet you in person.

[00:00:09] Luke Storey: Yeah, likewise, man. I was stoked to see you guys on the roster for this event, because, a couple of different things. A, I wanted to just meet you and see all your stuff in person. I sell it on my website. Well, I don't sell it, but I refer to it on my website. I validated you guys, I think, through my friend, Jordan Kravitz, who was going through some mold stuff and we were researching home ozone generators, and he's like, I talked to this guy, Micah, it's legit, they do everything right. And so, even without having one, I put it on my site. So, some people would be familiar with you and what you do. And then, I was like, wa-la, there you are in the flesh.

[00:00:44] Micah Lowe: Yeah, Jordan was a great connection. We talked quite a bit and he played me up a little bit more than I expected, because he's like, oh, you got to talk to this guy, this is the ozone guy. And yeah, he sent you our way and a bunch of other people. So, a lot of good stuff to add to my knowledge, too.

[00:01:02] Luke Storey: How did you get involved in the ozone game to begin with?

[00:01:05] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, originally, I was going down kind of the medical path, wanted to become a medical doctor, and I was also working for my dad and he was into UBI, which was ultraviolet blood irradiation. And that's an alternative kind of natural treatment as well. Very good for antiviral, antibacterial, those types of things, and I worked with him for quite some time. And I was going through school and talking to a lot of the people in that paradigm, and I was also talking to doctors working on my dad's business, and I was learning a ton about the different therapies they were doing and kind of the way they thought.

[00:01:39] And then, I started to ask some of those questions to doctors on the other side. And one that I remember very specifically was like, hey, we have people with type two diabetes, why don't we—and nobody told me to ask this, but just the paradigm change had kind of started to take place, why don't we give them like six months of metformin, give them a lifestyle plan, and like getting off of it, or some variation of that? I'm not quite sure.

[00:02:01] But rather than just saying like, let's just give you metformin for the rest of your life, and then just let this take its course, and I was like—well, that was my question. And anyway, they kind of came back with, well, we don't have a cure for type two diabetes yet. So, I was like, well, there's something wrong there. And so, talking with these doctors, long story short, there was an issue in the market with ozone therapy that equipment was super, super expensive. 

[00:02:27] And I had to work with my dad on the UBI, so I was a little bit familiar with the electronics of that, and there was a local engineer who was very helpful. And we solved some problems within the machine that were making it so expensive. So, we were able to make it for about half the price, got into the market, and it did well. And I had some entrepreneurial desire, so I went with it, and that's kind of how I got my start. And now, we do a lot of education on ozone therapy.

[00:02:49] Luke Storey: Wow. Cool, man. That light irradiation thing, did it have a name? Was there a specific advice? I'm just curious, because I did that the other day, as I was telling you before recording, with methylene blue. Got methylene blue IV and they ran it through this device that had, I think, UVA, UVC, and a couple different spectrums of red, 660 nanometers, one of them.

[00:03:15] But it was really interesting, because basically, they are disinfecting your blood. It's like an antiseptic with light, right? Like they use in water purification, they'll run water under UV light, it's one of the ways you can purify water of pathogens, and they can do that to your blood. I'd heard of it, but strangely enough, never had done it. Has that evolved or something your dad's still involved in, or what was the protocol, I guess?

[00:03:39] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, I mean, that has its own unique history that's very interesting, going back to the '20s in dealing with, what's his name, Morris Fishbein, who was a director of the AMA. Anyway, yeah, in the 1920s, it was really interesting, because he wanted to buy out this guy who was named Emmett Knott, who came up with UBI, ultraviolet blood irradiation. They were treating, I believe, sepsis and some other things that were pretty severe and having a really good success with it. They started with dogs, and then started treating people. The AMA wanted to buy the product. The guy who had developed it said no, and then they decided to crush them. So, at one point, it was rivaling penicillin.

[00:04:16] Luke Storey: Oh, my God, really?

[00:04:17] Micah Lowe: Yeah, as a treatment modality. And penicillin, at the time, was really good, though, because you just take it by mouth. World War II came along, so it treated a lot of infections very well at the time. But UBI was kind of pushed under the bus. So, anyway, yeah, it's called ultraviolet blood irradiation. The organization that is training on that, satmed.org. I don't know if that answers your question.

[00:04:37] Luke Storey: It kind of does, yeah, and it's really going off-topic. I'm like, let's talk about Ozone, wait, this other thing.

[00:04:45] Micah Lowe: I like both.

[00:04:46] Luke Storey: So, ultraviolet would be a different spectrum of light than what I did, which was the UVA and UVC. So, it's interesting. It sounds like it's the same principle, where you're taking the blood out, you're exposing it to this light, and I'm assuming in an enclosed kind of machine, right? And then, the blood's going back in you. Is that how it works with that?

[00:05:06] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, you draw out 60 CCs of blood, makes it with saline, and then run it through the lights. And then, essentially, that's killing off the bacteria, virus that's going back into the body as an auto vaccine. I've been told by scientists that that's not quite correct, but that's, for me, the easiest way to explain it. But yeah, it is UVB, UVA, and UVC. So, I don't know if-

[00:05:28] Luke Storey: Yeah, that's the same kind of deal.

[00:05:29] Micah Lowe: I wonder if, by chance, do you know what it said on the machine?

[00:05:32] Luke Storey: Yeah, it was the. It was like-

[00:05:36] Micah Lowe: Hemealumen.

[00:05:39] Luke Storey: OK. Hemealumen, yeah. You're familiar with that device?

[00:05:42] Micah Lowe: Yeah, that's by Eugene Barnett. He's a friend. So, it's a small industry. So, I mean, not a whole lot of people.

[00:05:48] Luke Storey: I mean, the guy that—I don't know, you got to be so sensitive with using the word cure and things like that, but the doctor that I worked with on that has successfully treated 100 cases of a very prominent viral infection right now, like 100%, and the average was in two days, it's gone, doing that, with like two passes of this methylene blue. Not just the irradiation, but the methylene blue combo and all that stuff, and has incredible results with other pathogens, and viruses, and things like that.

[00:06:20] And I mean, I heard a presentation. It was just in a private residence in Austin, a presentation, and I was like, ah, I want to do that. I don't even think I'm sick, but just like, whatever it is, but I think it was these types of things, right? If somebody already has a patent on the technology and Big Pharma can't get their grubby little paws in it, then often, as you said, these things get waylaid out of the mainstream, because they're only profitable maybe for the manufacturer of the technology, and the practitioners that get trained, and buy the technology, and then treat patients with it.

[00:06:54] But I'm always, I don't know, kind of a born rebel, so I want to know about what works the best, what's the least expensive, and what's the safest. Maybe not necessarily in that order, but that's kind of the criteria by which I would elect to do some treatment on myself and also the criteria by which I promote things to my audience through interviewing people like you. So, I was very impressed. And in like measure, similar things can be done with ozone, the oxidative therapy kind of potential of it, so we'll get into talking about that.

[00:07:30] But I did send that experience I had to a couple of doctors, and they were like, oh, so it's basically like 10-pass ozone. I was like, well, I think it works differently, but the effect, in a sense, is the same, in that you're taking the blood out, and you're treating it, and sort of neutralizing anything in the blood that you don't want, and then putting it back in, which is fundamentally kind of the same just done a different way, I guess.

[00:07:53] Micah Lowe: Yeah. I mean, they're synergistic, so they're doing different stuff. There is this company called Vasogen, oh, man, they went down in the 2000s. and by that, I mean, they failed, but they were venture capital-funded company that was using ozone and UBI for cardiovascular disease. So, really, really interesting. I think it was $200 million of funding they had that they poured into studies.

[00:08:16] So, the cool thing is they produced a bunch of process patents, a bunch of studies on ozone, UBI, and what they're good for, and animal tests, and human tests, and all sorts of stuff that was done to the highest standard, essentially. The problem was they were going after chronic heart failure stage three, which is when there's been a lot of damage to the heart already. You've already had a heart attack or there's something that's really happened to the heart.

[00:08:41] But what happened was with ozone therapy, UBI, you're not able to reverse those effects. They were going after the big dogs, right? Because cancer, heart disease, those kinds of things, there's a lot of money in them. So, if you can find something that helps it, you're going to make a lot of money. So, this was venture-funded, a ton of money in it, and they found that it doesn't really work for chronic heart failure stage three. They found that there were some positive effects on stage two and some other stuff.

[00:09:07] And unfortunately, the company folded. So, they didn't get FDA approval, the company went under, but what we were left with were all these studies on how ozone works, how UBI works, what it does in the body. They did, even on some other diseases that weren't related to heart failure, but there was some really, really cool stuff from that. So, yeah, basically, we found that ozone by itself is good. UBI by itself is good, but if you put them together, there's actually a synergistic effect and they're both improved, which is kind of interesting.

[00:09:36] Luke Storey: Oh, that's interesting. Wow. Damn. So, in the same way that some of these modalities of healing are waylaid, because of the, I guess, lack of profit. I mean, ozone is like basically electrocuted air, right?

[00:09:54] Micah Lowe: Yeah, essentially.

[00:09:55] Luke Storey: So, it's like it's cheap and it's not something that Big Pharma, again, can like totally control. So, I think, sometimes, with modalities like this, they get sidelined, not because they don't work or because they're unsafe, but just because there's no kind of profit motive or that it can't be patented and just owned by a single person. So, can you take us back a little bit into the history of ozone?

[00:10:24] I mean, obviously, it's an element that's universal in our world, and the air and such created by lightning and all of that. But do you happen to know like when was the first medical application of ozone? Who did it? What were they using it for? And then, how did it kind of get pushed into the sidelines rather than becoming a mainstream thing that every single hospital uses all the time?

[00:10:46] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, I did kind of a dive into the history of ozone, and it's very tough to tie everything together, because it comes from multiple countries, multiple histories, so tying it all together was difficult, and I didn't, by any means. But I found the first record that I could find of ozone therapy and its medical usage, which was in 1867. It was in Germany. There was a professor, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he was saying it's good for topical infections.

[00:11:14] A lot of people think that Tesla was hugely involved with ozone therapy. Somehow, he wasn't. He had an ozone generator that was good for sterilization. I think he might have, to a degree, been involved in the ozone oil, which is good for topical application. Anyway, 1867, first known medical application of ozone. Speeding up to World War I, so 1919 kind of time frame.

[00:11:33] I think that's the time frame. But yeah, in that ballpark, there was a doctor, Stoker, I believe out of, yeah, England, he was actually treating people who would get wounds and they get infected. And that's a huge problem, because either they die or you have to cut off the limb. But he was using an ozone generator to sterilize the wound, which also gets rid of the infection, helps with the healing process.

[00:11:56] So, a lot of lives were saved through that. And that was kind of the beginning of ozone therapy, the beginning of like recognition by a lot of different people for ozone therapy, because they're like, whoa, that really worked. And they didn't have the antibiotics at that point. So, there wasn't an alternative, really. And then, I guess, kind of speeding up, not a whole lot of interesting stuff happened in terms of the scientific aspects that did get used more and more throughout '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s.

[00:12:22] Really, in the '60s, '70s, and ,80s is when it started to get like a scientific foundation to it, when Dr. Velio Bocci did a ton of—basically, he dedicated his life to researching ozone therapy as a scientist and gave it a really good scientific foundation for a lot of other people to work off of. There weren't any countries at that time that had approved ozone therapy for usage. I think even in 2012, when I first started hearing about it, it was something like 10, and now, it's like 25 countries are approving it. So, yeah, it has a pretty long history, but yeah, '60s, and '70s, and '80s, it's really when it picked up scientifically.

[00:12:58] Luke Storey: Interesting. Okay. And can you explain for the layperson listener who never heard of ozone, except the ozone layer, and global warming, and this kind of stuff, what is ozone itself?

[00:13:11] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, ozone is a gas. It's O3, oxygen is O2. So, it's when you take one extra oxygen atom and put it on the O2 molecule, you have O3. It doesn't sound very different, but it's very different. It's very unstable, which gives it some of the properties that we like. A lot of people know about it, because of pollution and those types of things, but that's a whole different ballgame, really.

[00:13:34] It is true that you can't breathe ozone, because there's no antioxidant defense in the lungs, but other parts of the body, it can be applied very safely, because there's antioxidant defenses. And what that means is the ozone will go in. It'll interact with the antioxidants. So, not directly with like, let's say, your skin, or your ears, or your nose, or something like that, or the blood. It doesn't oxidize it.

[00:13:54] It reacts with the antioxidants and produces other effects that are positive. So, ozone is a gas that can be applied in lots of different ways. I mean, there's dental, there's cosmetic, there are injections for herniated discs, there's the intravenous like you mentioned. So, there's a ton of different applications for it. And medically, like I said, it's grown quite significantly throughout the last 10 years, I think. Like I said, like a dozen countries to 25 or so.

[00:14:22] Luke Storey: And one of the things that's so impactful to me about ozone is its antiseptic powers, like its ability to neutralize pathogens, bacteria, fungus, parasites, viruses, all the things on contact. And I think that's why I'm of the mind like, why isn't everyone using this all the time? Why isn't this a bigger thing, which hopefully, people like you and conversations like this will help to increase? But do I have that right, because I always kind of rattle off like, it kills all the things, is that in fact true or are there any things like MRSA or something like that that are resistant or unable to be neutralized or eradicated by ozone?

[00:15:07] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, one of the things with ozone is it interacts differently based on the tissue that it's touching, like I mentioned. So, there's rectal insufflation, which is like an ozone enema. There's the mucosal wall in there that actually interacts instantly, is absorbed into the mucosal wall into other properties and goes up throughout the blood, whereas like if you had a MRSA infection, it's going to act more as an antiseptic. So, it's going to go in there, it's going to kill infection, but it's also going to stimulate some growth factor and basically help the area to heal up.

[00:15:40] To say that it's an antiseptic all the time is not quite accurate. So, like if you're doing an IV, there's some antiseptic property possibly in that very local area that you treat the blood. But actually, what's happening as far as its ability as antiviral, antibacterial, if you're doing an IV, is that it's actually just helping your body to perform better so that it's more capable of eliminating those types of things. So, that's why it works. Yeah, because it's interacting, like I said, with the antioxidants, it's not going in and killing the virus itself. It makes this cascade effect.

[00:16:11] Luke Storey: See, yeah, that's where I was a bit off, because I—so, okay, say we put a bunch of pathogens on the surface of this table, and then I get an ozone generator and an ozone cup, and I cup this little area, this is going to nuke everything.

[00:16:25] Micah Lowe: Yeah, kills them all.

[00:16:25] Luke Storey: But once you put it into the bloodstream, it becomes ozonides or something else that, as you said, doesn't actually like kill on contact in your blood, per se, but then encourages your body and fortifies your body so that it can do its job better.

[00:16:40] Micah Lowe: Yeah, essentially. And that's kind of the—I always see like a laundry list of benefits of a therapy, and that like makes me put a flag up. But then, once you realize like, and you believe in a therapy that it has a very fundamental effect, you kind of understand why people say like it does this, that, and the other. Because like if I can improve your body just to perform better, it's going to do a million things better, right?

[00:17:03] Luke Storey: Right.

[00:17:03] Micah Lowe: So, it's like one of those things where it's going into the body, it's just improving the immune system and it's not boosting it either. That's why it can be used for autoimmune as well as immunosuppressed cancer patients, is because it's having this balancing effect. And that's Dr. Silvia Menendez out of Cuba has done hundreds of thousands of treatments, and she goes into depth on just how it works as a immune balancer, immune modulator, it's what she calls it.

[00:17:29] But that's super interesting because if your immune system is overreactive, it brings it down, if it's underperforming, it brings it up. And now, there's a few other kind of major things it does. It improves oxygen efficiency, which is your ability to utilize oxygen. That's not how much you breathe in, but the stuff that you breathe in is going to get used better, which is really good for metabolism. Athletes love that, because it improves stamina, recovery time, that kind of thing.

[00:17:54] Luke Storey: Let's talk about the idea of home use ozone generators, because I think in my experience, I've gone to practitioners. They have a 50,000-dollar thing from Germany and I do 10-pass IV ozone, and then I have kind of a homemade ozone generator at home. I mean, homemade, it's hopefully viable. It seems to be so far. And then, I use that at home. And so, I've got a little oxygen canister that came with it.

[00:18:23] I go to a welding shop and I have them fill up a giant welding oxygen canister, keep it in the garage, then I just keep that thing full, and then apply that to my body. And it seems like that's kind of cutting edge and a bit out there, but it's becoming hopefully more prevalent that people aren't only going to practitioners but are also administering ozone at home. So, could you kind of break down the different types of generators that actually make ozone?

[00:18:50] Micah Lowe: Well, I think behind that, hopefully, there's an idea that you're not just relying on practitioners for your health, that there is kind of a proactive approach, and that you just want to be healthy for yourself and your family. And what I mean by that is like that you're just not totally supported by somebody else for your own health care. So, that being said, yeah, there's a ton of different generators.

[00:19:09] There are practitioners that have like super, super great generators that do different things, that can do kind of fancy things like the 10-ass stuff, and those range from anywhere to 20 grand to a couple thousand dollars, and they can do IVs. But there's stuff that people can do at home, ozone therapy at home. They can do like rectal insufflation, ear insufflation, ozone water for drinking, and the washing of wounds, and that kind of thing, and that costs about a thousand bucks. So, you can get them for pretty inexpensive and they work great.

[00:19:37] Luke Storey: What about issues with, if someone's buying a generator and they want to save money? There could be some—I mean, able to get some kind of weird ozone generator on Amazon for, I don't know, $500, let's just say, right? I've never tried, because I'm kind of aware of this, but what about the reactive nature of ozone in terms of the components that are used in a generator? What do people want to look out for in terms of using silicone for the tubing instead of plastic and glass over metals that can become reactive to the ozone and things like that?

[00:20:11] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, that's another safety component of ozone therapy, which, by the way, we didn't touch on safety, but ithas a higher safety efficacy than aspirin. If you look at the World Federation of Ozone Therapy, they published a paper with hundreds of thousands of—or I think it's 183,000 cases or treatments that were performed. Anyway, yeah, so that's like kind of number two on the safety list of ozone therapy as your generator, and it's basically because ozone being such a strong oxygen, being so unstable, interacts with certain things like nylon.

[00:20:41] For instance, if you put a nylon glove on, and then spray ozone gas on it, it just deteriorates like instantly. So, what you don't want is a generator with materials inside that are actually going to deteriorate, and it's called off-gassing, where it produces like toxic byproduct. And so, that's something for your safety that you wouldn't want to do. There's a few companies that are reputable.

[00:21:00] There's basically only three in North America, but yeah, just make sure the equipment that you're getting has ozone-resistant materials. And if they're one of the companies that do that, they'll make that very clear, because that's a common question among people. There are cheap ones that are few hundred bucks that are not made for ozone therapy. People say they're for ozone therapy. They're good for like ozone water, washing of produce, that kind of thing, but that's really it.

[00:21:25] Luke Storey: Okay. Cool. And so, let's go into the different applications. So let's say you have your own generator and it's viable. It's been manufactured correctly so that you're not going to have these off-gassing issues and stuff like that. So, what I've done with mine is rectal insufflation. Is that how you say the word?

[00:21:46] Micah Lowe: Insufflation.

[00:21:48] Luke Storey: Insufflation, where you basically connect a plastic catheter to the outbound ozone hose and put it up the [making sounds] for a couple of minutes and it's incredibly energizing. It also incidentally, TMI for some listeners, but it's also a great laxative. It'll often make you evacuate shortly afterward. So, that is something I've done a lot of.

[00:22:12] And then, also using the stethoscope, so hooking up a stethoscope, and actually getting ozone into the ears, and presumably throughout the skull cavity and around the brain, and such like that. Could you explain kind of how those, too, work? And then, some of the other things like bagging, and cupping, and different ways that someone can use ozone gas that's been generated to apply in or on their body?

[00:22:35] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, if you're wanting to use it for like preventative care or chronic disease, really, the two best ways—well, you want a systemic treatment. So, for at home, there's rectal and vaginal insufflation, which maybe not the most glamorous, but if you're sick or you're just trying to get to that next level, probably a good thing to try out. So, those are pretty simple. The vaginal insufflation takes more, like 15 minutes, the rectal insufflation, two to five minutes.

[00:23:00] So, it's not like a long process, but yeah, pretty straightforward, like you said. And then, beyond that, there's the stethoscope for the ear insufflation. And that's really primarily just indicated for like head issues. And what I mean by that is like ear infections, super, super good especially if people have chronic ear infections. They usually don't need to get antibiotics again, or if they're very severe, maybe the antibiotics for a while, wean off of them, and then the ozone can kind of take up the rest of it. So, really, really good for that kind of thing. Sinus infections, eye infections.

[00:23:32] Basically, there are these tubules from the air that tie into the sinus cavity up into the eyes and all that kind of stuff. As far as going into the brain, there's not really any good research on that, but I've been around this industry for a while, people do it and they say that it helps, and I don't really know where to place that. I just kind of put the information out there that, hey, there's this burden of proof that we haven't overcome, just say that it's like making your brain perform better or something. But there's a lot of people who say that it helps them, and that's fine. It's not going to be harmful, but if you want to try it, go for it.

[00:24:02] Luke Storey: See, I just like the way I feel when I put it in my ears, and especially if I feel like I'm catching a bug or there's any kind of sniffle starts, I mean, I got that thing in my ears in five minutes. But I'm always curious when doing that if it's going in the holes in your head that we call your ears, like is the ozone gas actually getting inside your skull and being exposed to your brain? Is that the way it works physiologically, or am I just imagining that?

[00:24:30] Micah Lowe: No. So, I mean, your brain is pretty well closed off. When you go swimming, the water doesn't get in there, so it's pretty well closed off. But you have your tympanic membrane, it doesn't pass over that, doesn't go through. Well, there's some—man,. I forget the guy's name. I wrote it in an article on ear insufflation on drsozone.com. But basically, they found with some degenerative hearing loss that they were able to reverse some of the effects with ozone therapy.

[00:24:54] There was very little information on it. But it was kind of interesting, because it suggested that maybe the ozone isn't getting in, but maybe it's causing something to happen that's positive. So, not 100% sure what's happening there. Like I said, I mean, I don't know how many people have just done it here at the conference, the ear insufflation, you're like, wow, I feel more alert, or X, Y or Z. And so, it's, like I said, one of those things, where I just say, hey, this is what people experience, this is what literature says, you can decide what to do from there.

[00:25:23] Luke Storey: I've noticed, for sure, mental clarity, and my wife, Alyson, loves doing it in the ears, and like if she senses a little bug, she's like, where's the ozone machine? Ours has been sent out to repair right now, unfortunately, and we've actually, really missed it, especially in the current age when there's seemingly bugs going around, et cetera. But I've gotten from her that there's like mental clarity benefits from it, and she's not someone that really buys into a lot of the stuff. She just feels good, and lives her life, and is like a normal person, not a super biohacker.

[00:25:54] But I always find it interesting when she gravitates toward things, because she's not that interested in some of it, and she loves the ear thing, and she's just like, yeah, just wakes me up, I feel clear, and doesn't get colds and things like that. So, that one, but I've been curious about that, like is it going on your brain or what? So, thank you for giving me a physiology lesson there. What about, obviously, you can't breathe ozone gas, it's quite caustic directly, but what you can do is bubble the ozone through various oils, and then breathe that in with a cannula? Can you kind of explain that method?

[00:26:31] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, basically, there will be this glass apparatus that you bubble a gas down into, and the gas that comes back up is no longer ozone, because they interacted with the oil, its an ozonide. And people do breathe that, it's pretty common, and then I know a lot of doctors that use it for lung infections, lung cancer, basically just respiratory issues.

[00:26:51] Luke Storey: Got it. Okay. And then, what about cupping?

[00:26:54] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, that would be like if you have a skin infection, like you said, like MRSA or something of that nature. And same with limb bagging and ozone cupping are the same thing. The ozone cupping is just like around the torso, whereas limb bagging would be for arm or a leg kind of thing. But yeah, if there's diabetic ulcers, MRSA, infections that you want to get rid of that are tough to get rid of, it can work pretty well for that.

[00:27:20] Luke Storey: With the ozone cupping, I've tried it on a couple of things, like mosquito bites, and burns, and cuts, and things like that, it works very well, but I'm always a bit confused by like the pressure of the gas coming out, because the one I have is a tiny little cup. I mean, it's like half a coffee cup, I guess, relatively speaking. And so, say, I have a cut on my knee and I put the cup on, it's like it fills up in two seconds with the gas. So, I'm always wondering, because you don't want to breathe it, right? Like when someone wants to do cupping, could you just leave it on there and keep it pumping, but perhaps run a fan in the room or something so that it's not filling up your airspace, or do you just put it on for a second, typically?

[00:28:00] Micah Lowe: Yeah, I know of people that do that, where they might wear a mask with like a charcoal filter on it if they're very neurotic about it. Personally, I'm comfortable just letting it go, but I've been around it for so long that I kind of know what it feels like to have too much of ozone in your lungs or whatever. But yeah, or you could just even put it on there, and turn it off for a little while, and then let oxygen run through, turn it back on, that kind of thing, so you can just kind of have it pumping ozone through without having to build up too much pressure or release it.

[00:28:30] Luke Storey: Right. And then, why is it helpful to wet the skin before doing a topical application of the gas, or is it? 

[00:28:41] Micah Lowe: I could be wrong, but I think the reason people do that is just because ozone's a very drying gas, so it just helps to humidify it. That's my understanding for the ear insufflation. As far as for the skin, not 100% sure why people do. Most of the education I've seen on it doesn't recommend that, but I could see it helping with not drying out the area just because it's such a dry gas.

[00:29:05] Luke Storey: Got it. Okay. And then, break down the bagging. I have one of these foot bags, which I was experimenting with for a while, and it's just kind of, once you're in it, you can't really get up and move. So, I'd set it, I'm like, well, what am I going to do now that I'm sitting here? Basically, there's a silicone tube that runs into the bag, and it inflates it, and you're exposing that. And you said it's similar to the cupping. What kind of applications would that be for and how long would someone typically sit there with this bag on their knee, or their foot, or hand, or whatever?

[00:29:37] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, it's the exact same thing as cupping, except you're just using a bag. I mean, there's really no difference in terms of what you're using it for. I mean, it's post-surgery infections, ulcers, that kind of stuff, stuff on the skin that's there that you don't really want to be there. Maybe not like a bad tattoo, but like something that shouldn't be there. So, yeah, it's like a 20-minute process. You run the ozone generator at a very high concentration of ozone. You sit there for about 20 minutes and you do that until your infection or your wound is remediated.

[00:30:06] Luke Storey: Got it. And then, on ozone generators, there will be, on mine, for example, there's an air flow on the oxygen, and then there's a little valve that's kind of a regulator that determines how much oxygen runs through the electricity. And then, that gives you the right amount of concentration of the gas, and it seems to be measured in gammas. And so, there are different recommendations for how much gamma. How do you figure out how much gamma you're getting and what number of gamma is appropriate for the thing that you're trying to do?

[00:30:42] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, there is a group of ozone therapy experts that, I mean, they've been coming together for a long time, but they put together a document called the Madrid Declaration, and they keep on publishing it every four or five years with renditions. But basically, they do a review of all the scientific literature, and they come out with recommendations based on what they're seeing. So, for example, rectal insufflation is 20 to 40 gamma. They say, don't go over that, there can be some negative effect on the intero site, which is some of the stuff on the intestinal wall, that kind of thing.

[00:31:12] But yeah, they just look for those windows of what is a good, safe therapeutic dose, and then like what's a good buffer from that, just to make sure that doesn't happen, and they basically come up with that. But you are asking, too, about like how do you actually set the device, which is, yeah, there's the generator, like the size of a brick. Well, typically, I don't know how big yours is.

[00:31:31] Luke Storey: Mine is considerably bigger. It's like a James Bond briefcase, because the oxygen canister fits in there, too. It's kind of velcroed in, it's a briefcase, really.

[00:31:40] Micah Lowe: Okay. Yeah. So, like a lot of generators are the size of a brick or a little bit bigger, and they weigh like few pounds, so they're not heavy. And then, you have an oxygen tank and a little regulator on the oxygen tank that determines how fast the oxygen will flow into the generator. So, basically, you flow oxygen into the generator and that creates the ozone. Now, based on how fast the oxygen is flowing, that's going to determine how strong the ozone is, because the slower it goes through a generator, the more exposure time it has in the electrical chamber, essentially, and the more ozone that's going to make from that. So, if you make it flow faster, that's why it's weaker, which is kind of counterintuitive.

[00:32:18] Luke Storey: Yeah, that is counterintuitive. That's funny. I think I might have had it backwards. That's good. And then, let me see, where else do I want to go with this with? Okay. So, that's the at-home generators. If somebody's going to buy their own generator, it would be advised, unlike mine, that it comes with some kind of settings that a normal person can kind of understand without having to do calculations to figure it out. Are there some that are easier for a layperson to dial in, and get the right settings, and the right gamma, and air flow on than others, pr are there many like mine that just kind of you just have to guess?

[00:33:00] Micah Lowe: So, are you asking like when a person gets a device, like how do they set the concentration or how do they figure out what concentration they should have?

[00:33:08] Luke Storey: Yeah. And are there a lot of machines out there like mine that don't tell you, you just have to kind of take your best guess, versus ones that you can actually dial in exactly what you want for the application?

[00:33:19] Micah Lowe: Well, if you buy from one of the three primary companies in North America, they'll tell you what you need to know. Like they'll say, like, hey, if you're going to be doing this, this is the recommendation on that. So, they'll say like, set it to setting three for two minutes or whatever, and they'll have that for each application. So, yeah, most of them have written instructions, videos, that kind of thing. So, once you get the equipment, it should all be there.

[00:33:42] Luke Storey: Okay. And what's this document that you mentioned and where might people be able to find that?

[00:33:47] Micah Lowe: That's the Madrid Declaration. I tried buying it online, I had to go through some back channels to actually get it, because they're from Spain, right, and their website was updated last I tried. So, I'm trying to. It's ISCO3. So, it's the International Scientific Committee of Ozone Therapy. It's the largest scientific committee of ozone therapy. But yeah, I think it's isco.org, or isco3.org, or just Google I-S-C-O-3, and you should pull up the website. 

[00:34:20] Should be on there. Hopefully, they fixed the problem that they had. There's also a ton of information on drsozone/com, which is D-R-S-ozone.com. There's like a free guide that walks through how to do ozone therapy, how it works, what it looks like. There's a ton of videos, and yeah, that's a little bit more user friendly. The Madrid declaration is more oriented towards stats. 

[00:34:38] Luke Storey: It's a bit geeky?

[00:34:39] Micah Lowe: Yeah.

[00:34:39] Luke Storey: Okay. Cool. And we'll put all those in the show notes, those listening, let's call this episode lukestorey.com/ozone. Take a note of that for me, would you, Bailey, too? Thank you. So, we got to convey that to the producers. I'm always afraid I'm going to say that, and then no one ever makes the hyperlink. And listeners are like, wait, it's a dead link. It's probably happening already, working on it. But oftentimes, we talk about so many things and we're rattling off all these names, I really like people to be able to go to the show notes and actually find all the resources. Okay. So, let's talk about some of the other topical applications, the ozonated oils, and toothpaste, and things like that.

[00:35:18] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, essentially, when you infuse ozone gas into an oil, it bonds with the oil, and it creates an ozonide, which is an antiseptic. So, that's good for topical applications, kind of like the cupping and the bagging that we talked about. The nice thing with this is it's easier to do. Probably, if I had a severe infection or something, I'm going to be doing both personally, but it's nice, because it's a lot more easy. You can get a bottle for like 20 bucks on Amazon or whatever, and it's just an ozone oil. But essentially, yeah, you just rub it into the area, kind of like a Neosporin or an antiseptic. I'm sure a lot of your people don't use Neosporin but know what it is.

[00:35:57] Luke Storey: I use ozonated oil. It works great for insect bites. hat's one of my favorite things. It actually makes them stop itching. However, some people are more bothered than others by the smell of ozonated oils. I don't find it particularly pleasing, but if I'm the one using it, it's like worth it, because I don't want to get an infection, I'm trying to heal a burn, or a cut, or something like that. Has anyone managed to make ozonated oil that's a little less offensive smelling?

[00:36:26] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, a company I'm talking to right now, there'll be a new product out soon, and that's the first one I found that I was like, oh, wow, this is actually quite different. And basically, it comes down to how they produce it. When you're producing ozone oil, it's easy to get the oil really, really hot, because it's, technically, a chemical reaction that's happening.

[00:36:44] So, the oil gets really hot, and that causes kind of that rancid smell, and it creates a lot of stuff in it that you don't necessarily want there. They do it at like controlled temperatures and a bunch of different other stuff. So, it's pretty good. But no, beyond that, I haven't come across somebody that really has gotten rid of that. It's described as kind of a rancid smell, almost.

[00:37:03] Luke Storey: Yeah, it does a little bit. Yeah, almost like an oxidated oil. 

[00:37:08] Micah Lowe: Oh, and you mentioned for the teeth in that kind of stuff, which we didn't touch. So, it's actually really good for. Oral disease. Like I mean, I know that's like really broad, but like infections, receding gums, cavitations, all sorts of stuff. And what a lot of people don't think about is your teeth are kind of like tubules, so there are all these little pass that are happening. And if you were stretched out, I can't remember what they say, but if you stretch them all out-

[00:37:32] Luke Storey: Goes around the world five times,

[00:37:33] Micah Lowe: Yeah, something like that. It's going to be a mile, or two miles, or whatever, just from one tooth. And so, anyway, that means that it's hard for stuff to get down there or it's hard to get infections out, so there can be an infection deep in your tooth that's really hard to access. That's why people do oil pulling. It's because it gives it a lot of time to be able to get down there. So, oil pulling with ozone oil is basically the biggest bang for your buck, because it's a very strong antiseptic, able to help with some of the remineralization of the tooth, that kind of thing. So, it's a really good thing to do for oral issues.

[00:38:05] Luke Storey: Oh, that's cool. I didn't know that. And then, what about toothpaste? Is toothpaste that has ozone in it going to have that antiseptic effect?

[00:38:13] Micah Lowe: Yeah, there's ozonated toothpaste that probably tastes a bit better. They're not usually quite as strong, because they're mixed with some other stuff. But yeah, those are good just as like preventative care, beauty care, that kind of thing.

[00:38:25] Luke Storey: Okay. Cool. And then, what about the application of ozone in dentistry? It seems like that kind of in holistic dentistry, that was the first place I personally started hearing about ozone being used. And that's one of the criteria by which I've selected dentists. I go on their website or call them, and like, do you guys use ozone, rather than some of the other options available? So, give us a bit about the practice of dentistry in how they use it.

[00:38:54] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, there's probably, I don't know, this is hard to estimate, but maybe, I don't know, five to 10,000 doctors in the United States that are using ozone therapy regularly, and that's MDs, DOs, those types of integrative doctors. Worldwide, it's much, much bigger. But interestingly, there's probably even more dentists that are using ozone, and I think it's because they have to think outside of the box a little bit more. Sometimes, you can refer to a specialist to a point, but you can't get passed around in the same way that you can in the other circles.

[00:39:26] So, it's a lot more widely used. And so, they're using ozone water just like after any sort of treatment, any sort of surgery. And I mean, we've said a number of times, so it kills infection and speeds recovery time. So, the ozone water, the ozone gas, the ozone oil, they're doing all those things to help with them. And there's an interesting person, Dr. Valerie Kanter. She does some research at UCLA. Do you know her, by any chance?

[00:39:51] Luke Storey: No, I don't. 

[00:39:52] Micah Lowe: Okay. So, yeah, she's a rock star, she's awesome, but she's trying to replace the use of bleach with ozone. So, bleach is actually common use in conventional dentistry, which most people don't realize.

[00:40:05] Luke Storey: Really?

[00:40:06] Micah Lowe: Yeah.

[00:40:06] Luke Storey: What?

[00:40:07] Micah Lowe: Yeah, they just put it right in there. They use it on the tooth and pulling Clorox off the shelf. And yeah, if you push them on it, like, well, I haven't had this experience, because I go to a biological dentist, but I've heard like, if you push on it, they're kind of embarrassed, because, yeah, it's just straight up bleach that they're using as an antiseptic.

[00:40:23] And I'm not sure that all dentists do that by any means, but her mission is just to replace that practice with ozone, because the cool thing is, once you use it in the mouth, especially in the form of water, it's not dangerous to breathe or anything like that, it just reverts back into oxygen. So, there's no toxic effects to it, klls off the infection, helps to stimulate the natural healing process. So, it's a really cool thing and I hope she succeeds with it. And I also think dentistry is probably the most likely to get FDA approval for ozone therapy or be the first thing that does.

[00:40:58] Luke Storey: Cool. Yeah. The last time I went to the dentist, they did a filling and I knew that they were a biological dentist, so they were probably going to do it, but yeah, they turned on a generator, and I think it went through like a little needle or something. They was just like [making sounds] and they were just spraying the gas. And obviously, I could smell it, and not breathing it in, but enough to know it was there, and I was like, oh, I'm in good hands.

[00:41:20] These guys know what's up. Then, what about—there's another thing I wanted to ask you. Ah, what about not the IV injections, like a 10-pass ozone thing that people are using for mold, and Lyme, and more chronic and acute infections like that, but what about for pain in ligaments, tendons, injuries, things like that? Like prolozone therapy, can you let people know a bit about that?

[00:41:45] Micah Lowe: Yeah. And that's also another awesome space. So, basically, for medical ozone therapy, there are four different categories to break it down into. There's cosmetic, which would be like wrinkles, and anti-aging, and that kind of stuff. There's the medical primary care or preventative kind of stuff. There's the dentistry, and then there's the mechanical, sports doc, pain management, the injections, and that would be for like knee, for herniated discs.

[00:42:09] It's actually really, really good for herniated discs. So, it has, I can't remember the study exactly, if you just Google ozone therapy herniated disc study, you'll find five, six, seven different studies from different groups with like the same results on this. And it's like, I can't remember if it's like close to 60 or close to 70%, it's one of the two. But basically, they can heal a herniated disc at a 60 to 70% success rate using just an ozone injection.

[00:42:36] And that's pretty cool, because surgeries around the same point, same success rate. So, you're talking the difference of like $450, minimally invasive, versus like a full-on surgery on your spine. So, if you have one of those, I definitely recommend just trying it out and seeing if it works. And if you're in the 30 to 40% that it doesn't work for, then do what you've got to do from there, but it's definitely worth a try.

[00:42:59] Luke Storey: I've had the ozone injections, I don't think in a disk, but definitely, I think it was my elbow, I did some of those, and it helped, but I didn't really know exactly what they were doing. So, in that type of injection, are they filling a syringe with the gas itself and putting the gas in there, or are they infusing some kind of other substance with ozone?

[00:43:18] Micah Lowe: So, with the herniated disc itself, it doesn't go directly into the disc, just to be clear, but they go around it. But yeah, essentially, they would fill up a syringe with ozone gas and they would just inject it into the area. It depends on the joint. So, like a knee is going to take a little bit more than a wrist. An elbow is not going to take very much, but that helps to clear up the inflammation stimulates microcirculation.

[00:43:43] So, now, you're getting gas exchange, which is super important for the healing of the joint. It's going to help with some of the healing properties. It's really good as a precursor for other therapies like PRP or stem cells. It just creates a really good platform for those to take place and work better. So, yeah, it's a really good thing. I sustained a pretty serious back injury, and I've used it, and it feels great. It takes away pain for long periods of time.

[00:44:07] Luke Storey: Wow, that's cool. You just reminded me of one of my more reckless adventures in ozone. I was referred to an unlicensed professional in California, and what they do is not ozone IVs, but just a direct ozone injection like right in your arms. They take ozone gas, and put it in your vein, and just [making sounds] and just go in. And it, I'm sure, has unsafe potential, because the ozone gas is so caustic, and powerful, and things like that.

[00:44:42] I lived to tell the tale, but it was a one time thing, because leaving, I thought, hmm, I don't know if this is totally safe. But what do you know about, I guess, the difference between doing it that way, and an IV, where they're taking your blood out, and ozonating it, and putting it back in for the more chronic illness kind of applications? What are people up to with with those two methods?

[00:45:04] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, that's called DIV, direct intravenous ozone, as opposed to MAH, which is major autohemotherapy. The DIV is when you just do the gas directly into the vein. I'm not a fan of it. I'm not a proponent of it. Whenever I tell that to ozone nerds, they get upset, because they're all things ozone. So, if you're out there and you're upset, I'm sorry, but it's just—and the reason is because ozone therapy is super good.

[00:45:28] It's super effective for a lot of different things. And DIV is one of the only methods that actually regularly has negative side effects. So, chest tightness, nausea, those types of things, people are scared of air embolism, which actually doesn't seem to be a danger. I mean, I look through all the reports of death for ozone therapy, there are eight of them. Six of them, you can't even find out who it was, when it was, any of that.

[00:45:56] The other two were like, totally, it was just like one person was using a fluid, which isn't ozone therapy, so I don't know what that was. And another one was people using a commercial generator using room air that did cause an embolism. So, yeah, flying by the seat of their pants with that one. But anyway, so it seems like there's not like a danger of death. Personally, I've never done it. I'm kind of neurotic about that. Maybe, I don't know.

[00:46:25] Luke Storey: I think it's called smart.

[00:46:27] Micah Lowe: Yeah.

[00:46:28] Luke Storey: I mean, I know there are a lot of people doing it, but it's the kind of thing you wouldn't want to be cavalier about.

[00:46:32] Micah Lowe: Yeah. And I think it could be a hold up to ozone therapy getting mainstream acceptance. And that's kind of one of the long term things that I'd like to see happen. And I know there's the beast of the FDA and all the money like, I mean, $100 million in cash to get approved. That's a tall order, especially if you have something that only costs, it's 1,000 bucks to get started.

[00:46:52] And then, after that, you're good to go for the rest of your life pretty much. So, it's like there's not a big moneymaking machine with ozone therapy. But yeah, DIV is not by most—I can't think of any like highly recognized scientific organization that recommends DIV. It's usually individuals or doctors that have been doing it for a long time. And that's fine.

[00:47:13] I don't have a problem with them being okay with it, but personally, I don't recommend it to people. And so, there's also MAH, which is the safe way to do it, that doesn't have all those negative side effects, where you pull the blood out, you mix it with the ozone, and then put it back into the body. So, there's no gas going directly into the body. It's the blood going back in. There's zero gas there. So, that's the difference between those two.

[00:47:33] Luke Storey: Do you happen to know the difference between ozone dialysis and like a 10-pass ozone treatment?

[00:47:40] Micah Lowe: Yeah. Ozone dialysis is misnamed. There are some people out there that call it, it kind of looks like a dialysis machine. It's not actually pulling anything significant out of the blood. It's called EBOO, which is extracorporeal blood ozonation oxygen ozone therapy. But anyway, they're pulling out large amounts of blood. There's a needle going in one arm, or a blood is coming out one arm and going into the next. 

[00:48:06] And it's like a pretty long process. Then, they're doing a lot of blood, they're mixing it with the ozone and that kind of stuff. So, it's more about just mixing the blood with the ozone and oxygen than the actual dialysis of it. So, it's not dialysis in that sense. And then, the 10-pass is like a high dose form of ozone therapy. So, the major autohemotherapy that we mentioned is using—it depends, I have to calculate it out, because it's been a while, but it's using a small factor of ozone that like a 10-pass would be.

[00:48:43] So, a 10-pass ozone therapy is when you're doing a lot of ozone therapy into the person, and that's called the high dose form. And that's kind of a newer thing that has come around, probably at least with broad, a lot of people using it. It's probably been the last 10 or 15 years, but basically it's a super ozone dose. And so, the idea is that you're just getting a lot of ozone at the blood. There's a better effect to it, some people claim. I don't know where I sit on that. It seems like a lot of doctors say that, hey, it's way better than the MAH. The MAH is the old thing, but it seems like both have a place, and I'm not quite sure where to place it.

[00:49:23] Luke Storey: Got it. Yeah, I did. Maybe three or four 10-pass sessions and I felt pretty amazing. It's difficult to—if you don't have a very specific pathology expressing, it's difficult to know like, did it work or not, right? Depending on what your definition is. But I did enough research on it, and the opportunity arose, and so I went, did a few, and I felt great. I mean, I walked out of there feeling brand new.

[00:49:47] Micah Lowe: Yeah, I think it's good. I mean, I'm honestly a fan of the rectal insufflation just in terms of practicality, a lot cheaper, a lot easier to do. So, an MAH is going to be 250. A 10-pass at the cheapest is 1,100.

[00:50:00] Luke Storey: Yeah, it was not cheap.

[00:50:01] Micah Lowe: That's per treatment. So, they're pretty expensive. Whereas, the rectal insufflation, once you have used it for a year or two, it's going to be dollar a treatment, somewhere in that ballpark, and it has maybe not as potent of effect, but it has the same things that it's doing within the body. So, that's the reason I'm a fan of it. It's something you can do consistently. It takes two to five minutes and you can do it for a fraction of the cost of the other stuff. That being said, if I had a chronic disease, I would still be getting the IVs as well as the other stuff. So, I'm a fan of both.

[00:50:32] Luke Storey: I mean, I think that's one of the things that's cool, and maybe as we were talking about earlier, why ozone hasn't gone more mainstream is that it is inexpensive. I mean, you said you can get a really valid generator for 1,000 bucks now. I mean, I remember a few years ago, they would start at 3,000, right? And so, once that thousand-dollar generator has been paid for, if you kind of think about how much it would cost you to go get even the rectal administration from someone, they're probably going to charge you 150, $250, I don't know. I've never done it, because I've had one at home, but you can add that up pretty fast and you have the ability, as long as you have the oxygen, like you can treat your entire family, friends, whole household indefinitely as long as your machine is built to last, right?

[00:51:18] Micah Lowe: Yeah. I mean, they're going to last a lifetime, pretty much. I mean, they're pretty simple in their technologies, so there's not a whole lot that can go wrong. And yeah, like I said, I mean, we covered a lot of the stuff that it's good for, rom ear infections to people using it for chronic diseases. It, yeah, just got a broad spectrum of application. And again, running into that paradigm of being able to take care of yourself with things that you have in your house, I think, is important.

[00:51:43] Luke Storey: Yeah, totally. And then, I think one of the last things, I might think of something else, but what I wanted to ask you about was the ozone saunas. I've done this once. There's a place in Austin called Alive and Well, and they have an ozone sauna. And basically, it's like a little kind of stand-up box coffin sauna, where your head pokes out, right? And then, they seal it with a towel, so you don't breathe in the ozone, and then they just pump ozone into it, and you sweat. And I'm assuming that ozone is penetrating your skin and getting in you. And again, that one, I didn't know exactly how it works, but I knew it was safe and felt amazing afterward. What's the deal with ozone saunas?

[00:52:20] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, I have my own opinion on things, and I think a lot of people do in this circle. And so, me saying something doesn't necessarily mean it's true, but it's my opinion. And so, going along with the ozone saunas, I talked to doctors and there certainly seems to be something beneficial. In all honesty, I don't know if it's the ozone or not. So, what I mean by that, as doctors are saying like, hey, I've consistently had results like this with ozone saunas doing this, and there are different types, and different kinds, and ways that it's applied.

[00:52:56] But the basic idea is that you're dilating your pores and the ozone goes in there. Dr. Velio Bocci said like, hey, ozone doesn't go through the skin, it doesn't. Dr. Frank Shallenberger, on the other hand, says like, he has some sort of testing mechanism that he uses, and I honestly can't remember what it's called. It's been a while since I've read on it. But basically, based on the test that he developed, he sees an increase when you do the ozone sauna. And so, you have kind of this discrepancy between what scientists are saying about it.

[00:53:27] And I think Frank Shallenberger is more of a clinician than a scientist. I think he's done amazing things for ozone therapy, but yeah, that being said, we also did some testing with some of the kind of name brands on it. We weren't able to, using ozone monitors and different methods, actually detect any skin at the—any skin, sorry, any ozone at the skin level. And the reason for that is ozone is extremely reactive, so that's why we couldn't like bottle it in a bottle for you and give you ozone water to drink two days later. It's because it reverts back into oxygen pretty quickly.

[00:54:02] Luke Storey: Oh, right, right. Does your ozone water last longer if you refrigerate it, by the way?

[00:54:08] Micah Lowe: Yes, it does. So, you can, if you use like very pure water, and you refrigerate it very cold, and you have it very tightly closed off, there will be some ozone left in there 10 days later.

[00:54:20] Luke Storey: Oh, wow. Okay.

[00:54:22] Micah Lowe: Yeah. But yeah, with ozone sauna, there are two factors for Ozone to break down quickly. One is heat, the hotter it is, the faster it interacts. And people kind of remember, but like as things heat up, molecules go faster, and that's the reason why it interacts faster. It's going all over the place and it's reverting back into oxygen faster. The other thing is if there's opportunity for it to interact with things, it pretty much will.

[00:54:50] So, there being humidity and steam in the sauna is the other factor. So, that's why we weren't able to find any ozone at the skin level. So, by the time we measured, is there any ozone that's actually here, we weren't able to find anything. So, that being said, it doesn't mean that I understand what's happening. I understand that one thing. And so, if people are having beneficial results, I'm okay with that, but I don't know why. 

[00:55:15] Okay. Fair enough. I mean, that's really the definition of science, right? It's like, we don't know why, let's find out. And just because you can't find out doesn't mean it's not valid, it just means you haven't found out if it is yet. So, that's interesting. I think I covered everything. Am I forgetting anything in ozone world? Oh, I know what I want to ask you, yes, I knew other thoughts would percolate to the surface. That is ozone generators that aren't meant for human use, but just to disinfect the space.

[00:55:43] So, I just bought one on Amazon. I think it was a couple of hundred dollars, and while my home is under construction, I go in there every few days and I just let it run all night. And I go in, and hold my breath, and open all the windows, and let it air out, just for any, I don't know, mold spores, just funk around. I just want to nuke any kind of pathogens that might be floating around in the space as we're doing all of this work and unearthing all this stuff.

[00:56:07] Yeah, air purification, basically.

[00:56:09] Luke Storey: That's the word I'm looking for.

[00:56:10] Micah Lowe: Yeah. So, there's Ozone for purifying the air, and the reason, again, kills off a lot of stuff. So, whether that's mold, or the spores, or bacteria, and it just leaves good, healthy air, essentially. My wife loves it. She runs it all the time in our basement while we're gone, and it filters throughout the house and just kind of purifies it, probably does it around once a week. But yeah, those are good. I mean, you can get them off Amazon for 100, 200 bucks. Pretty inexpensive. If you live in a place with mold, you need to get rid of the mold. You need to get out of there, possibly. So, it's not going to fix that problem for you.

[00:56:46] Luke Storey: Run like hell.

[00:56:48] Micah Lowe: Well, we live in a house that was built in 1863, and before this, it was a house that was built—The one we're in now is fine, because it was like totally gutted, totally redone, And it's this small, old farmhouse that's kind of cool, but the one we were in before, it definitely had the mold thing going on. And you put the ozone there, but might help for a little bit, might make it a little bit less, but it's a place we had to get out of. But yeah, it's commonly used for mold remediation, and just purification, and all those kinds of things. And I recommend people to have one. I think they're good to have.

[00:57:19] Luke Storey: Yeah. Another thing that they're incredible for is smells, just foul smells. If you cooked something weird in your house, smells like fried chicken for two weeks or something, like you run that thing in there and it's gone. Another thing I used it for was new car smell, which some people like. But to me, that's just off-gassing of cancer-causing chemicals.

[00:57:40] So, my brother, Andy, had bought a new car a few years ago, and he bought it in Colorado, and we were going to drive it back to California, and I got in, it was just like, oh, my God, this is so toxic. And it was really hot. It was the summer. So, we would have the windows rolled up and such. And so, I borrowed my dad's ozone generator, and I got an extension cord, and plugged it in there, turned it on high. and left it in overnight, aired the car out, new car smell completely nuked, gone like it was never there. I was like, yes. So, I like the ozone generators for that purpose.

[00:58:10] Micah Lowe: Yeah. Every car rental place, every hotel has them. And if anybody ever smokes in it, gets rid of the smoke smell. And it's not just a perfume, so it's not just covering it, it's actually eliminating it at its base. There are certain cars. If you have like nice faux leather, it can mess with that if you put too high of a concentration. I had this car that I sold that I accidentally did that to, I ran it for like, I don't know, most of them have knob, but I think I turned the knob off on that one. I bypassed it and just let it run. And that kind of had this weird thing that happened with the faux leather.

[00:58:41] Luke Storey: It does break things down. I've noticed that. Like if I run it and there are rubber bands out in the room, they turn brittle. Yeah, it's definitely like reactive with rubber, and plastics, and things like that. But it worked on the car. It was amazing. So, I think that was one of my best discoveries to get rid of smells really fast. And for any teenagers listening, if you're smoking weed at home when your parents are out for the night, you don't want to get caught, run that ozone generator. Actually, I remember back in the day when I was a teenager, I guess they have them, used to call them head shops, but it was like weed paraphernalia stores, basically, and they would sell these little ozone, like canisters of ozone that would get rid of-

[00:59:23] Micah Lowe: Yeah, hunters use those.

[00:59:23] Luke Storey: Oh, they do?

[00:59:24] Micah Lowe: Yeah. It's like Ozium or something.

[00:59:26] Luke Storey: Yeah. And you could get rid of weed smell like in your room or whatever. You're listening to Pink Floyd with black light posters.

[00:59:33] Micah Lowe: Different childhood.

[00:59:33] Luke Storey: Yeah, mine was very different. So, yeah, maybe that was totally my first use of ozone, is like not getting busted smoking weed. So, just kidding, kind of, kids, don't smoke weed without permission from yourself. Yeah, I think that's it, man. I think that must be one of my most concise, like to the point-focused interviews ever, so thank you for that.

[00:59:52] Micah Lowe: Yeah. And thanks for dialing me in, because I can go all over the place with this stuff.

[00:59:55] Luke Storey: Oh, it's great.

[00:59:56] Micah Lowe: I like it, so appreciate it.

[00:59:57] Luke Storey: No notes. I think I'm familiar enough with the topic. I know the things I want to ask and share with the audience, because I just think that this is such an incredible intervention for people. And as you've said a couple of times during this conversation, this is one of those things that allows us to take responsibility for our own health and our own bodies, and have some sense of autonomy, and take care of a lot of things that we'd either have to spend a lot of money, or time, or risks on treating, treating it with drugs, pharmaceutical, surgery, things that are going to have side effects in a number of different ways. So, as far as like safety and effectiveness, and now, thankfully, these days, more availability, it's not so expensive and out of reach for people, and they're there.

[01:00:40] Micah Lowe: Yeah, it's one of the tools in the toolbox. It's not like the silver bullet or anything like that, and none of these things are, but it's a good thing to have, for sure, and I think a lot of people can benefit from it. But yeah, I hope none of this was taken as like gospel, in the sense that, hey, it's going to get rid of all your problems, but if you got something going on, or you're trying to get better, or trying to do athletics, it can be good.

[01:01:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. I mean, for me personally, I would never consider not having an ozone generator in my house. It's just, yeah, it's like having running water. Maybe not. That's a bit exaggerated.

[01:01:13] Micah Lowe: You're a bit more of a fan than me at that point.

[01:01:16] Luke Storey: No, I'll take that back. That was obnoxious. But no, seriously, I mean, it's like I said, ours is in the shop, and I'm like, at numerous times, I've walked into the bathroom, where I keep it, I'm like, oh, God, I need it today, for whatever reason. Maybe I just slept poorly and I want the mitochondrial function, or I think I'm on the verge of getting a bug, or I've got a cut, or just any of the things that we've discussed. It's like the family home tool.

[01:01:40] And I've also treated a lot of friends with it, too. People have funky stuff going on, I had a friend that had cancer, and I was treating him with it. I used to use mine before I got the ice baths that I have now that has an ozone generator in it, the Morozko Forge, genius design. I used to take my ozone generator to the backyard, and dunk the little diffuser in the water, and disinfect the water. So, it's not only kind of for the body, but has so many other uses if you have the right apparatus,

[01:02:09] Micah Lowe: Ozonated ice baths sounds awesome.

[01:02:11] Luke Storey: Yeah, man. They have one downstairs.

[01:02:14] Micah Lowe: Well, ice baths, it's not ozone yet. We've got to get there, right?

[01:02:21] Luke Storey: You never have to change the water, it just disinfects all the time.

[01:02:24] Micah Lowe: Actually, they have them for hot tubs and pool, like you're go to an Olympic-size pools with ozone, never have to do chemical balancing, never have to use chemicals.

[01:02:31] Luke Storey: Dude, do you know like a—because, oh, my God, I'm so glad you mentioned that,, because I just bought this house, and I try to talk to the pool guy, he's a nice guy, but he's not a biohacker, he's a pool guy from Texas. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do the chlorine. He's like, no, that's the only way. And I was like, what if I do saltwater? He's like, no, you still have to use chlorine. That's what the salt does. It makes natural chlorine, like you can't get away from chlorine. Yeah, right? No offense to the guy. But I'm like, he doesn't understand wackos like me for California. But do you know of like a bonafide system, where you could just clean your pool water with ozone? Is there a company or a site, or is it just like a thing I could look into?

[01:03:11] Micah Lowe: So, I don't have a pool or a hot tub yet, but once I get one or if I do, I'm definitely going to do that, because you never have to do chemical balancing. You don't have to worry about them. It's just oxygen by the time it's there. There's a guy that I talked to in Thailand that has some equipment. His name is Charles Harris. Maybe we can drop that in the bottom of this. I can't remember the name of the website, but Charles Harris is his name. It's a couple thousand dollars, and he has a bunch of education and stuff.

[01:03:37] Luke Storey: Done. My pool guy is going to be upset, because I won't have a job for him. Oh, no, he can come get the leaves out still, just don't pour those chemicals. I haven't really used my pool much yet, definitely not the jacuzzi, it's just like a chlorine factory. But yeah, people have been DM'ing me, because I've been talking about the journey of the renovations, and they're like, just do ozone in the pool. I'm like, yeah, but where? Who has it? What's the deal? So, cool.

[01:03:58] Micah Lowe: Yeah, I'd like to get into that, because I think it be interesting, or it'd be fun, because I just want one. 

[01:04:01] Luke Storey: Totally, man. And yeah, for a hot tub, and that's one of the worst things. Especially when you travel, I'm always like, alright, I got to find the Jacuzzi, and I go down there, and I'll do it, but it's like, hold my head way out of the water, because I don't want to breathe all that stuff. It's just like once you kind of live in filtered water land, which I always had shower filters and stuff, and then even in this hotel here, I noticed, I'm just like, oh, my God, they're taking a hot shower. It's just brutal. It's just like a gas chamber in there. So, yeah, that's going to be cool. I'm glad we touched on that, because that's on my to-do list. Who have been three teachers or teachings in your life or career that have influenced your work that you might share with us?

[01:04:42] Micah Lowe: Ozone therapy and this specifically?

[01:04:43] Luke Storey: Related to anything.

[01:04:44] Micah Lowe: Oh, man, related to anything. Oh, I'm of faith, so the Bible, God, Jesus. My dad would be number two, and then, yeah, number three would be family, my brothers. So, I have a big family, I have 10 siblings, and yeah, we're all very close. A lot of them, entrepreneurs, so it's pretty cool to work with them, learn from them, grow with them, and that kind of stuff. And yeah, maybe that's cliché, but that's what it is. 

[01:05:11] Luke Storey: Hey, no, I think that's very wholesome. You should have heard the last guy, he's like, Dr. Ted, man, he had this, he's like, what do you mean? I was like, like a book, philosophy, a teacher, and then he laid out like this entire like cosmic universal code of the three. I mean, it was beautiful, but it was, I like the simplicity as well.

[01:05:31] Micah Lowe: Yeah, I'm a simple guy.

[01:05:32] Luke Storey: Yeah, I can tell.

[01:05:33] Micah Lowe: At the end of the day, I am.

[01:05:34] Luke Storey: I can tell.

[01:05:34] Micah Lowe: I like being at home. I like family.

[01:05:36] Luke Storey: Yeah, likewise. Well, thanks for being here with the Life Stylist family today, Micah. Much appreciate your visit and finding time for us. I think we provided a lot of very pragmatic value for the audience, so thank you for that.

[01:05:48] Micah Lowe: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

[01:05:49] Luke Storey: Yeah.

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