[00:00:01] Luke: All right, Alyson Charles Storey. We got another AMA. I want to thank the listeners for submitting great questions. It's always fun when I'll take a scan at the questions and I think, geez, I don't know. Those are the best questions.

[00:00:17] Alyson: Yeah.

[00:00:18] Luke: It motivates me to think more deeply, so I'm excited. What is this episode? 653?

[00:00:27] Alyson: That's correct.

[00:00:28] Luke: So the show notes will be lukestorey.com/653. Is that right, Jarrod? Okay, there we go.

[00:00:35] Alyson: All right. You ready to just dive in?

[00:00:37] Luke: Let's dive.

[00:00:40] Alyson: Okay. Tuning in to my inner crystal ball to select which one I would like to be first. And we will go with Annette. I feel that based upon a most recent healing exploration that you went on yourself, honey, that this will be the perfect beginning question.

[00:01:06] Luke: Oh, great.

[00:01:07] Alyson: Annette asks, simply yet, powerfully, "How can I learn to love myself?"

[00:01:16] Luke: That's great. That is so timely. I just had the experience to which Alyson was referring, was incredible extended. Many, many hours.

[00:01:32] Alyson: Mega extended.

[00:01:33] Luke: I think was a 13-hour experience altogether that I'll be doing some further reporting on in the near future. But the essence of the experience, it involved body work and talking and all kinds of things. And the core of what it ended up being about was about self-love.

[00:01:55] So it's a really pertinent question to me. And I think-- I don't know. I always think this is the most important thing, but I think self-love is really the master key to so many issues that we all face. And so for me, there's the superficial things. It's being aware of the inner dialogue, the self-talk that I have, speaking out loud in ways that are self-deprecating, but not for funsies.

[00:02:39] Alyson: You'll just have flash thoughts that are a little harsh, or--

[00:02:42] Luke: Yeah. Superficial would be looking yourself in the mirror more often and saying, "I love you." But I think for me, the journey has been more about addressing the underlying beliefs and imprints from my childhood that prevent the self-love from happening.

[00:03:14] It's like as I've come to cultivate a relationship with God over the years, it's taken me some time to realize that it's not that God went missing. It's that there are things in the way that I think, feelings that I have, things that I've not addressed yet that are just obscuring my experience, obscuring my capacity for communication with the divine-- much like today, we have a cloudy day here in Texas. You go outside. It looks like the sun's gone. But it's not that the sun's gone. It's just that there are clouds in the way. So I can't see. So it's about removing the clouds.

[00:03:57] And in my exploration into self-love, every time lean into that, I'm actually shocked at how little of that I've developed after doing so many years of work on myself. And not that the work I've done hasn't been valid, but it's like, man, I wish I would've known 29 years ago at the beginning of this journey that that was such an important piece of it.

[00:04:30] And so for me, having more self-love is becoming more acutely aware of anything that's living in my body or in my mind or in my field, in my energy field that's not true. When I'm critical of myself, for example, and it's not based in reality or when I'm too critical or too harsh on myself, that would be one of the blocks.

[00:05:00] Feelings of shame, things that were put into me when I was a kid through different experiences I had or trauma, holding things as a kid for adults who were unconscious or unable to hold or process their own pain or their own shame. So just becoming more aware of the essence of who and what I am and being very tidy about not taking on anything that's not true within myself.

[00:05:34] So when I was doing that work the other day, I'm still integrating, so it would be a three-hour podcast to really unpack that experience. But for example, I was just looking at my purpose in life, what I'm meant to do in the world, what I have to offer, how I can be of service, and looking at the lane that I'm in, which is a beautiful lane sitting here and having these conversations and doing the other things I do, but I have bigger goals and bigger dreams and ways that I'd like to reach people and help people.

[00:06:10] And I was looking at why I don't do that or why I haven't done certain things that I want to do. And it has a lot to do with just fear of failure, in some cases, and in other cases, fear of success. We were talking about the upper limit. I think in one of our recent conversations, our capacity for joy, our capacity for success-- I mean success inwardly of just to live our best lives.

[00:06:37] And it's like a lot of what holds me back, I think, from doing that, is just self-doubt and all of those fears. And so loving myself would be the antidote to those limitations that are totally self-imposed. It's like not feeling that I'm capable or that I deserve some of those things in my life. And in the lifestyle too, just the way I want to spend my time with you and what our goals are and things like that.

[00:07:08] It's like any amount of achievement or success or no matter what I do with my career, writing the book that I've been writing, a lot of the time, I think in my life I've used goals as a way to, from the outside in, feel better about myself, to get validation from other people, or even validation from myself. To have a list of things.

[00:07:31] And then this year I have a list of goals. Check those off and I feel like, oh, that's going to bring a higher degree of self-worth or self-value. But it's really the other way around. It's like out of self-worth, self-love, self-value that the best things I have to offer come to be. So it's like a lot of my life, I think I've had that backwards working from the outside in rather than from the inside out.

[00:07:57] Alyson: That reminds me of what was bubbling up for me a couple of minutes ago. Oftentimes in our relationship journey that you and I have had since we shifted from friends to lovers--

[00:08:12] Luke: Woohoo.

[00:08:15] Alyson: --is you've expressed a lot how much you appreciate and enjoy watching how I maneuver in the world because I have devoted a lot of years to growing my capacity for self-respect, self honor, self love. For whatever reason, when I had my divine intervention and awakening, that was the first place that God led me to focus on.

[00:08:45] Whereas you, it was opposite, for whatever reason. And so when you were speaking a couple of minutes ago, I was thinking like, what's one of the main places from which this deeply embodied and grounded level of self-love and self-value has arisen for me? And what flashed in is I just know how much work I have put into myself.

[00:09:21] And that's been one of the main ways in which my self-love has just gotten so rock solid, because I'm just not willing to allow anything or any person to disrupt the peace that I have worked so hard to cultivate within or the peace within my energy field or home.

[00:09:47] I'm just not willing because of the depths of devotion that I've put into facing myself and learning myself and growing myself and also really devoting to doing what I can to be of service to humanity and serving-- the path I walk is in devotion to the web of totality and devotion to eternity.

[00:10:18] And that's just what feels most aligned for me. And no, I don't get it perfect all the time, but I have just put in so much work day in and day out for so many years that when something like a talk inquiry comes in, like, "Hey, we'd like to bring you into this conference to give a talk," and it's just like there are times where I will make an exception if I feel really called to be there.

[00:10:51] But when it comes to dollars and cents, if they're low-balling me, all I have to do is for one second, think about all that I have put into becoming this version of me that I now sit here embodied in, and I'm just like, I know I have so much self-love and self-honor and self-worth built from what I have put into me that I'm not going to compromise in most respects.

[00:11:21] Luke: Yeah, that's been really instructive to me. I remember when we first got together and when your book was coming out, and there were a lot of offers and invitations coming in, and I remember just sitting there going, "Man, how does she do that?" It's like you're just unflinching in your integrity and in your standards.

[00:11:42] And I remember it seeming like such a stretch to me. And now as some time has gone on, it's been slow, but now I'm starting to be able to see, I think part of the self-love journey for me is to, in an honest, realistic, and humble way, just acknowledge the value that I have to offer as a friend, as a husband, as a podcast host, whatever I'm doing.

[00:12:11] I think over time I'm seeing that I've diminished my value so much, and that might be part of the fact that I just came from such a, I don't know, low strata of existence and consciousness in my past. And another trap, I think, along the way for me has been, since I'm just geared for growth and expansion and my path is about awakening to who I am and building my relationship with God and just going more deeply into that surrender, I've had a tendency.

[00:12:50] And I think a lot of growth-oriented people are like this, especially in recovery, is you're always doing this process of personal inventory, looking for small ways in which I'm out of integrity or things that need improvement. It's like I'm always looking at the painting going, "Ah, what needs to be fixed here?" Versus stepping back 20 feet and going, "Wow, what a beautiful painting. This is a masterpiece." Sure, it's not perfect. There's some fine tuning.

[00:13:23] Alyson: And really acknowledging the what to some could be viewed as like the "smaller" wins, but they're actually oftentimes the most powerful ones. It's the shifts in how you're operating in everyday life. It's the shift in how you handle a conversation that for a decade would be a huge trigger or pain point for you.

[00:13:41] But then all of a sudden one day you realize, holy shit, I just got off the phone with that person and I stayed authentically calm. And it's those day to day, how the changes are showing up in day-to-day life. Those are the most powerful because those are the things that are the cumulative efforts that all of a sudden click in.

[00:14:07] Luke: Yeah. It's a fine balance because you don't want to lean into grandiosity or taking credit for your wins. But there's also a lot of value in acknowledging the wins. I think where it gets a slippery slope there is not attributing the credit to God and your higher self.

[00:14:35] It's just like, I did this. I succeeded. I overcame this thing. And in my case, I've had to apply a lot of dedication and discipline, perseverance, courage. All of those things have been necessary for me to face myself and evolve. But the real power behind that has been in my relationship with God and relationship to prayer and meditation and stillness to just grow my capacity for awareness.

[00:15:05] So rather than celebrating progress that I make as something that I did in and of myself, it's more of a collaboration with God and giving credit where credit's due. I think for me, it's been harder to give myself the part of credit that I actually deserve, to look back on just all the shit that I've worked through over the past almost 30 years.

[00:15:32] It's like almost three decades I've been in the process of waking up and remembering who I am, remembering what this game is all about. But I think going back to this, the question specifically, what I realized the other night in that experience that I had, I feel like the number one lesson here in this realm when you take on a body is to remember who you are and to learn how to love-- who you are as a soul, the eternal part of yourself.

[00:16:11] Not who you are in your name and your body and your lineage, but just that I'm part of something bigger. And I chose to come here and become something smaller so that I could then learn how to expand into the context, the field of expand into consciousness. And it's like I've got the love everyone down pretty well.

[00:16:35] I can really look at people even that I perceive to be-- I don't think of people as my enemies, but just people that are antithetical to the way I believe and the way I live, people that seem to lack empathy and lack love, the evil doers of the world. It's like my gut instinct is to hate them and wish them justice.

[00:16:59] Sometimes maybe even harm, but it's like not that much of a stretch for me to go beyond that and see even the worst perpetrators as victims. And it's like I can really have compassion and I can unconditionally love just about everything in this reality because I have a little bit of a grasp on its purpose, that we need this contrast.

[00:17:23] We talk about this all the time. It's like I can accept surrender to and love that we live in a world of contrast and polarity, and it's necessary for me to do what I'm here to do. But I realized the other night, it was so humbling because I was just contemplating this. Like, yeah, it's not a big stretch for me to love people.

[00:17:46] When the mail lady comes and drops our mail, it's so natural for me to just be kind to her and appreciate her and just think about what her life's like and put myself in her shoes and wonder what it's like to drive that little Jeep around all day. It's like, I love her. I really do. I don't even know her name, but I love her, our neighbors, people.

[00:18:06] Alyson: She is a very sweet mail lady.

[00:18:07] Luke: She's the best. But people that sit in that chair, I'm sitting there just loving on them. I love humanity. And so I feel like, ah, check that one off. I got that down. It's pretty easy at this point for me to do that. And what I realized the other night was like, dude, you're in the realm of self-love. I'm still in kindergarten.

[00:18:28] Alyson: Hmm. That's such a big epiphany.

[00:18:32] Luke: Yeah. In the sense that-- it's just funny. This person's asking that question. I'm like, "Yeah, got me. I'm right there with her." It's like, wow. Just when I think I have a grasp on something, then I'm given some insight or a higher perspective and it shows, oh wow, I really need to focus on this area of my life because the way I look at myself doesn't match the objective reality of who and what I am and the work that I've put in.

[00:19:04] And I think it's more, as I was saying earlier, about finding out what it is that's preventing me from accessing that truth, that reality, my inner truth. Sure, I'm not perfect, but damn, I've made a lot of progress.

[00:19:21] Alyson: And also remember, one of the other big epiphanies from that healing journey that you keep referencing is that you had the light bulb go off that you are an honorable man. And so I don't know if there's also a gem in there that could support Annette. And it links into the point I was making too about when you devote to the inner work and the inner terrains, that inner self honor and self-respect just naturally begins to build.

[00:19:59] It's not necessarily a goal, but if you just devote and have a goal to facing yourself and your own traumas and blind spots and shadows, what naturally begins to fill you, mind, body spirit, soul, and to put a healing balm on those different parts of you that were previously insecure or stressed, it's because you're putting in this work and this honor just begins to open up.

[00:20:30] Luke: Yeah.

[00:20:30] Alyson: So what else did you realize around that?

[00:20:34] Luke: I think I was having an extended experience of self-appreciation. It was just I was able to step outside of myself, which is much easier because I took some mushrooms and some kanna. And it's not uncommon that when I have some molecular assistance in a very intentional way like that that I'm just able to see things from a perspective that I can't see them on a day-to-day basis.

[00:21:05] I can meditate all day long and I'm not going to sit with my eyes closed and be able to see my soul to be able to see the essence of who and what I really am in that way. And that's not the only way to do it, but it's often a really powerful way for me to do that. And so what I realized is just, I don't know, sometimes it feels like God speaking to me or through me.

[00:21:34] At least in that experience that you're referring to, it was more my higher self or my soul communicating to my persona, to the Luke Storey entity that's here having this experience. And what I realized was that I've accomplished something really tremendous, which is that I'm an honorable person.

[00:22:01] I'm an integrous person. I have integrity. And so what I was teasing apart what honorable means, because if I can see that and acknowledge that and continue to become more honorable, the self-love is just inherent to that. It's like, how could you not love someone who's honorable? And so I was teasing that word apart, and I just thought able to honor, honor able, like, responsible.

[00:22:28] You're able to respond, able to honor. So I was contemplating that. Oh, I have the capacity to honor. Okay, so honor what? To honor all that is sacred. All that is natural. All that is true. All that is love. All that is beauty. To be able to honor you, to honor the dog, Jarrod, the people listening to this podcast or watching the video.

[00:22:54] Alyson: Honor that sweet little mouse the other day.

[00:22:56] Luke: Yeah.

[00:22:57] Alyson: Sweet little mouse that perished all by itself and--

[00:23:01] Luke: Yeah. What I realized was just the reverence for life that I have, and acknowledgement and appreciation of that. And also making sure that it's inclusive of myself, to honor myself. So if it's easier for me to be honorable in general, in my deeds and the way I conduct myself in the world, I should be able to honor myself in the same way.

[00:23:32] And if so, what does that look like? And what that looks like for me is raising my standards for what I'm willing to participate in or tolerate in relationships, in business. I was looking at my past and just situations in which, my boundaries were loose or I wasn't willing or able to acknowledge someone's distortions, patterns that I don't want to be involved with, or patterns that other people have that don't serve me.

[00:24:07] Alyson: You also had the light bulb go off around-- You are like, "Holy crap. That stuff that they had going on, that has nothing to do with me. That's not my responsibility." You had quite a few.

[00:24:24] Luke: Yeah, yeah. It's like, I think because I do love people and I'm just geared toward service because it's been so fulfilling to me, and especially with a long history of mentoring recovering addicts and alcoholics and things like that, it's like I'm pretty good at getting in the trenches with someone who's in a really dark place and helping them to elevate themselves out of that place.

[00:24:56] But at the same time, yeah, it's coming to the understanding that other people and their experience is not my responsibility. It's like a threat of codependency. It like if you're down in a pit, I can offer my hand. If you want to grab my hand, I'll pull you out of a pit, but I'm not jumping in the pit with you and wallowing around in there. There's a big difference. It's like if someone is open and willing and really wants to be helped and they want to change, they really want to evolve and they're--

[00:25:31] Alyson: They're willing to be open and humble.

[00:25:34] Luke: To be open and honest and humble, all of those things that are required to evolve, that's the deciding factor as to whether or not I can expose myself to something that's a little distorted or out of alignment or someone who's still stuck in some patterns.

[00:25:50] So a lot of the self-love realizations I'm having highlight the importance of discernment, which is something I've talked about. I've learned so much about discernment from you. You just have such a finely tuned bullshit detector, or distortion detector. And I think at times in my past, I've been a bit naive.

[00:26:15] And when it comes to self-love, one of the most critical aspects of loving myself is honoring my boundaries, taking the time and patience that are required to have discernment-- not judgment, discernment-- to be able to say, that's a plant and that's a table. I'm not judging that as right or wrong.

[00:26:38] I'm just saying this is what it is and that is what it is, at least from my perspective and my understanding at this moment. But to not skip over things that are uncomfortable to face, or in my case, more so in my past, it's like I would compromise my own wellbeing or integrity because there was something there that I wanted.

[00:26:59] We were talking about selling your soul a few episodes ago, and you see so many people sell their soul for money or power or fame because they don't seem to have the awareness that this is an eternal game. You spoke to you're making decisions based on your eternals soul's experience, life evolution, not just what can I get in this one lifetime?

[00:27:27] Alyson: Also living for the eternal in the sense of the grand landscape for all. Yeah.

[00:27:32] Luke: Yeah. And there's so much to unpack there, and I don't know that anything I said was that useful or directly related to that.

[00:27:42] Alyson: We can, because we went into a lot of trains, whittle down a couple of, like, if this resonates, maybe-- because you reflected to me that, again, another epiphany was just like, "Oh my gosh, sometimes I viewed you as having at times maybe too high of standards." And then you realize what if the whole time Alyson just had the right standards?

[00:28:05] Luke: Totally.

[00:28:05] Alyson: And thank you again for acknowledging that. That was very healing for me to hear. But one potential concrete example of a step that Annette could maybe take is, can you think Annette, of someone in your life who really is a living embodiment of really healthy self-love, self-respect, self-honor?

[00:28:27] Is there someone in your life who embodies and exhibits that in a very healthy, graceful way? And just maybe start to more consciously observe or ask them, where did that come from? What were the steps they took? And yeah, look at it through the lens of getting some tips on to how they maneuver, and let that support the information for you.

[00:28:55] Luke: Yeah. Modeling is huge. I learned so much just by watching people that I respect, people that have something that I want in character. And I would add to that the importance of personal inventory. A lot of the stuff that I've been talking about here and the experience I had the other night was just the practice of really facing myself and being honest about what's there.

[00:29:23] So one could write a list of ways in which they dishonor themselves, behaviors that get in the way, behaviors that I am regretful of, or things I feel ashamed about in my past. Having at least one person I can go to and share the deepest, darkest secrets, the nooks and crannies, to really have a place where I can safely expose my shadows and bring them to light so that I can see that they're not true.

[00:29:59] False beliefs about myself, limitations I put on myself, and also relationships I have that don't serve me. Make a list of as many people you can find in your personal life, family, business that don't support your highest good and that don't reflect back to you the unconditional love you want for yourself.

[00:30:25] And that was something that I was working with the other night. I don't have anyone in my life right now, thankfully, like that. But even in the past few years, there've been relationships in various areas of my life that I'm looking back and going like, why did that even last as long as it did?

[00:30:47] That could have been a one-day relationship. And more so not interpersonal, but just more so in business and just people we've hired to work on the house and things like that, as you're very familiar. Just going like, why didn't I see the sign sooner, or why was I willing to put up with such mediocrity? Why was I selling myself so short or not feeling that I didn't deserve a more reciprocal, fair, high-level, high-integrity interaction or arrangement with said person or people? Those are--

[00:31:25] Alyson:  Where do you lower your standards?

[00:31:27] Luke: Yeah. Where do you lower your standards? And those are some of the signs of where I need to work. And I think in that situation, when it comes to boundaries and standards around other people, it does go both ways. I feel like I can make adjustments on the outside, even if I'm not completely embodied in the self-love behind them.

[00:31:48] And that reinforces my self-love and self-respect. And also as my self-love, self-honoring the way I value myself, the way I honestly see and appreciate myself, as that starts to increase, I'm automatically less willing to settle for anything that isn't in my highest good. So they're both self-reinforcing, whether you go from the outside in or the inside out. But yeah, I would say primarily for me, the most effective thing is just looking for the blocks, looking for the things that prevent me from loving myself.

[00:32:30] Alyson: Last button I would add for a third option to see if it resonates. And that is parts work. I've referenced that a number of episodes with you, Luke. But it's just been such a game changer and it's, I don't even like to call it work because it's just like, that's not the right way of contextualizing it.

[00:32:52] It's just a way of loving and being with yourself, learning how to love and be with yourself unconditionally. And it released so many of the valves that were keeping me just tight or constricted. It released the pressure. It released the perfectionism. It released so many different things.

[00:33:12] There's a form of this way of being called internal family systems. So there are internal family systems therapists that exist out in the world and they specialize in doing this parts work. But it has allowed me to harmonize, unify, healthily integrate with many various different parts of me that were either fully denied or compartmentalized.

[00:33:50] Oftentimes these younger aspects of me that just got stuck in a certain way of viewing life or experiencing myself due to past trauma or imprinting that occurred when I was much younger, we have to give ourselves so much grace because when those imprints happen at five weeks old, or six months old, or two years old, those ways and lenses from which we then begin to view ourselves and view life, they get put in place back before our memory is even happening.

[00:34:30] And so they become just such a part of you that unless you're consciously examining this and doing this work, you don't even realize like, oh wow, it doesn't have to be this way. This way I've been experiencing myself and viewing life got implemented so far back. Holy shit. I don't think it has to be that way. And so then in connecting with these parts of, you just land in such healthier integrative harmonization and unification, and that's a game changer.

[00:35:05] Luke: Yeah. I remembered one really important part of my practice too, and I was working on this the other night and it's like, oh, I was making so much progress. And then there was a certain point I couldn't quite get past. And it's about, okay, when I look at you, when I'm around you, and I'm just experiencing the essence of who you are, no matter what you're doing, how you're acting, how you're feeling, what you're saying, where we are in the world, I just see you with such perfection.

[00:35:46] There's literally nothing, literally-- I have a hard time saying that word. Nothing you could do that would make me not love every aspect of who and what you are. It requires zero effort. It's like you exist, and the fact that you exist makes you perfect. And in the same way with other people, I love my dad. I was thinking a lot about my dad and just-- this is someone that hurt me tremendously early in life for a long, long time.

[00:36:19] There was so much healing and forgiveness and reconciliation, and also me just more deeply facing and acknowledging that fact. But for many years I just look at my dad and he's just perfect. I could see his child, I could see the child in him.

[00:36:39] I could see what he went through. I just had so much empathy and compassion for him. And so it's like there's nothing he could do. My mom the same way. There's just this, it's not only an unconditional love, but it's also just an acknowledgement of her perfection.

[00:37:00] It's like she's just perfect. She's this perfect mom, a perfect person. And if I think about myself that way, it's so much more of a stretch to see myself in that way. So one of my practices is to just experience what I just described when I feel that unconditional love for you and that just complete acceptance of you.

[00:37:25] It's like to turn that around and transpose it onto myself. And one of the ways I do that, and I know you feel the same way about me, at least I hope-- I know you do. And so I'll literally try to put myself into your perspective of me so that I can imagine the unconditional love with which you experience me. And I try to experience myself from that perspective.

[00:37:56] Alyson: Are you recommending that Annette learn how to astral project into somebody else's being who loves her unconditionally so that she can--

[00:38:05] Luke: Not so much. Maybe not the astral projection, but just trying to change your perspective. And so one thing I was working on the other night, and I kept going back to this scene, there's a scene that I have. I have a little short video of it where my dad and I were canoeing across this lake up in the high country in Colorado, and I rode for a couple of minutes and I got smoked out. I couldn't do it.

[00:38:31] My dad starts rowing. He is in his, I don't know, mid-70s at that point. And he's just such a beast. He just rode us across the whole lake. And so I'm sitting on my side of the canoe. He's sitting on the other side. And he's just sitting there rowing, and he is just smiling.

[00:38:46] There's this really specific essence in his eye. And when I've watched that video, and I still remember that moment, and this happened in many different situations with him, where he would just be looking at me with such deep acceptance and pride. He was just so happy to be with me and so happy that I was who I was or am who I am.

[00:39:14] And so the other night I was just picturing him and just honoring him and feeling his presence with me more than I normally do since he passed away. And what I was working on was I was trying to move across the boat and see through his eyes and look across the boat to me, a few years ago now, just sitting there being mean.

[00:39:36] I didn't have to do anything. I didn't have to say anything. I didn't have to achieve anything. I didn't have to be wearing anything, look a certain way. It's like I was just existing floating across this lake, and that was enough for him. So I was trying to work, but it's really hard to imagine what you look like.

[00:39:56] Alyson: Right.

[00:39:57] Luke: Whether I was on medicine or whatever circumstance, part of it was I just couldn't get to see what I look like so I could really envision that moment. But it was also challenging to rise to the level of self-love that matched his level of love for me. But it's a great practice. It's like, wow, that's something I can actually really lean into in meditation and make a practice out of that.

[00:40:22] Whether I'm seeing myself as you see me or my dad, or my mom or my brothers, anyone else that I might share some of my doubts or ways in which I see myself as flawed or that I'm unlovable, there's something wrong with me, or they see mistakes that I make, no matter what I do-- as long as I'm not doing anything out of integrity or anything, obviously-- it's like their love for me doesn't require me to be or do anything. They love me just because I exist. And that's how I--

[00:41:02] Alyson: Yeah, the birthright.

[00:41:03] Luke: That's how I love other people. I think that's a really powerful practice. Just imagine the person you love more than anything in the world, and just really try to reflect that back on yourself and see if that's challenging. See if it's hard. When you do that, do you go, "Yeah, but I have this neurotic thing I do, or I'm still working on this one character defect, therefore I'm flawed?"

[00:41:27] It's like, in our essence, no one is flawed. What's flawed is that we have egos. We have this misguided intellect. We have patterns from our childhood as you expressed. It's like all the things that are seemingly unlovable aren't even who we are. They're artifacts that have stuck to us or other people's shit that have been put into us that we didn't know we were carrying or that we weren't responsible for carrying.

[00:41:57] Alyson: Amen. Well, Annette, I hope that helped.

[00:42:00] Luke: What a timely question.

[00:42:01] Alyson: That was our long answer to your very succinct question.

[00:42:04] Luke: And I'll probably answer it again in a year, and hopefully you have made some more progress on that.

[00:42:09] Alyson: Yeah. All right. We'll switch gears a little bit and head over Pia's way. She wants to know, what are your top 10 podcasts? "I've just finished listening to all 600-something of your episodes." Wow. Okay, Pia.

[00:42:26] Luke: Wow.

[00:42:27] Alyson: She's officially listened to 600 more than I have. So that's amazing. And she's wondering who else you might recommend.

[00:42:38] Luke: Wow. First, Pia, thank you so much for committing yourself to so many hours. I don't know how many hours over 600 episodes is.

[00:42:47] Alyson: Yeah, I'd be curious the math on that.

[00:42:48] Luke: Some of these are long.

[00:42:49] Alyson: Do the math. You have your phone.

[00:42:50] Luke: That's like hundreds of hours.

[00:42:53] Alyson: Your episodes on probably average at least two hours per episode I would imagine. You go long.

[00:43:00] Luke: Let's see.

[00:43:01] Alyson: So if you do--

[00:43:02] Luke: It's sad that I need a calculator for this.

[00:43:04] Alyson: That's 1,200. If we did 600 episodes times two hours, that's 1,200 hours. But what would that break down per-- how many days has she spent in her life listening? That'd be 12-- wait, we're outing ourselves.

[00:43:20] Luke: Forget the calculator. We can't even formulate--

[00:43:23] Alyson: Yeah, the equation we're trying to go for. There's 24 hours in a day. So do 1,200 divided by 24.

[00:43:34] Luke: Okay. 1,200 divided by 24. 50.

[00:43:41] Alyson: Is that it?

[00:43:43] Luke: 50 days.

[00:43:44] Alyson: Seems like it'd be more than that 1,200 hours.

[00:43:47] Luke: This is not my strong suit.

[00:43:48] Alyson: Well, we know she spent at least 50 days of her life devoted to listening to your podcast.

[00:43:53] Luke: I'm grateful if someone listens to one episode and get something out of it.

[00:43:58] Alyson: But that would be like if she spent all day, every day for 50 days. Anyways, okay.

[00:44:05] Luke: Someone who's a math whiz, please get back to us. Feel free to troll us. Leave comment on YouTube.

[00:44:12] Alyson: Also, Pia, just great job.

[00:44:16] Luke: Yeah, yeah. I'm the same way. There's podcasts that I've for sure listened to every single episode. So this one doesn't go anymore, but one such was ReWild Yourself, my friend Daniel Vitalis's podcast. I listened to every single one of those, some of them a couple of times.

[00:44:37] Also his podcast, which is also no longer running because he turned it into a TV show, WildFed. I just about listened to every one of those, and that's funny because I'm not necessarily deeply immersed into the hunter-gatherer lifestyle as is Daniel. But he's just such a great host, and I just love the way he thinks and the way he speaks. Sometimes I can listen to things.

[00:45:06] I listen to podcasts that aren't even about things I'm interested in, but I'm interested in the way the people on the podcast are thinking about things and talking about things.

[00:45:16] Sometimes they're just educational or interesting, even if it isn't like a topic that I'm necessarily passionate about. But looking at my podcast player, I use an app called Overcast to listen to my podcast because it just has the features that I enjoy. Lately, if I could save one podcast I listen to every episode, and you know this, because every night I'm like, is it out yet? Has been the Candace Owens podcast.

[00:45:45] Totally unrelated really to many of the things we talk about here. I typically don't listen to a lot of that type of content because I just am not interested in politics because they're fake. And I just think the whole thing is theater and a psyop. What's interesting about her is that I think she came from the political pundit scene as a commentator, reporter, influencer, etc.

[00:46:11] And it's been really fun for me to see her wake up to the illusion of the political left and right paradigm. And right now, at the time when we're recording this, she is essentially the only big name in the "alternative media" who is questioning the official narrative around Charlie Kirk's death, which even some people have presented some pretty compelling evidence that there might not have even been a death. But who knows?

[00:46:51] Only the people there know. So she's not leaning into that, but she's really pressing against some very powerful people in a really courageous and honest way. And I think doing the job that a lot of other people in her position could or should be doing, but they're all toeing the line. So that podcast has been really fun and interesting for me because it helps me fine-tune my discernment. It's like I'm looking at her, going, is she telling the truth?

[00:47:22] Can I sense when she's being honest or not? My read on her is she's pretty damn honest. But more than anything, the people in situations about which she's reporting and researching, show me how fake and dishonest so many other people are in the space.

[00:47:41] And so part of it is also seeing who turns against her and attacks her. And because I listen to her podcast or sometimes watch it, I'm able to see other people in alternative media take what she says out of context and just straight up lie out their ass about her and what she's saying.

[00:48:02] So it's like a cultural study for me that's very interesting, just to see lies and deception on this grand scale, and to see that there are very few people that are actually pulling the threads at a certain level of our society. And she's one. I'm like, "Girl, takes a lot of guts to poke the bears she's poking." And so that one has been really interesting to me.

[00:48:40] And she's just also very articulate and intelligent, and I know a lot of people think she's a fed. It's like everyone's controlled opposition. Everyone's a fed. I don't know. But I do know from listening to her that many people in the alternative media space are likely as compromised as people in politics.

[00:49:00] Alyson: Wow.

[00:49:02] Luke: Yeah, yeah. Give it a listen folks. Another one of my favorites is-- a lot of the podcasts I listen to are actually not about things we talk about on this show because I get to sit here and talk about them. But I really like podcasts sometimes that are not that relevant or important because it's like just a little bit of a break or an escape for you.

[00:49:26] Alyson: Like my love reality shows.

[00:49:28] Luke: Exactly. Where I don't have to think too deeply. It's engaging. It's interesting. So one of those is called A History of Rock Music in 500 Songs by Andrew Hickey. Now he only puts out an episode once a month or sometimes even longer. But he does these deep dives on the history of music.

[00:49:47] So he starts out in, I don't know, the 1920s or something at the beginning of the series and the roots of blues and jazz and music like that, and how it eventually became rock and roll and country. He just works his way all the way up through each decade essentially. He's an incredible researcher. The amount of detail that he puts into the show.

[00:50:13] Alyson: No wonder he only does one a month.

[00:50:14] Luke: Yeah. Each episode is like a whole book about the origins of a song. So the recent ones were like Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin. Covered Nick Drake, Jethro Tull.

[00:50:31] Alyson: So in the mornings, if you are up here in the upstairs bathroom taking your shower up there and I hear the electric guitar shredding, I think maybe you're listening to the--

[00:50:43] Luke: Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. And one thing that's cool about his show is he plays excerpts of the songs. So if he's covering a Led Zeppelin song and it's got some blues roots, or it's stolen from or modeled by an early blues or traditional song, he plays the origins of every song.

[00:51:02] Alyson: That's cool.

[00:51:03] Luke: Which, I don't know how he figured that out. I guess he found a way. But I can't play songs I love on this. I remember an early episode I did where I was going to Utah to get stem cells and I did little short excerpts of the whole journey, getting on the plane, driving to the airport. Just an immersive journalism-type thing.

[00:51:24] And I was on my way to LAX to take a flight, and I played a Rolling Stone song, and it was this playing in the background as I spoke into my recorder and my producers were like, "Dude, you can't play that song. It's like, copyright issue there." I'm like, "What?” If I could, I'd be playing all kinds of jams on this show, but you can't do that.

[00:51:45] But anyway, Andrew Hickey figured out how to do it. That's an incredible one. Then one I've been listening to a lot lately is called the Danny Jones Podcast, which I found because he did a couple of really, like long-form detailed episodes with Dr. Jack Kruse, a former guest on this show. So that's how I found Danny Jones.

[00:52:09] I'd never heard of him. I guess he's pretty big on YouTube, but he does a lot of stuff about DARPA and alien contact and conspiracies, but more about anthropology and ancient history and lost civilizations and things of that nature. So it's not super conspiratorial where it's like stuff that's totally out there.

[00:52:34] It's more stuff that's grounded in reality. So he'll have experts on. He, a couple of days ago, had a debate with one of the biggest critiques of the moon landing hoaxes. And then he had an actronaut-- some people called them an astronaut on the show-- and they debated.

[00:52:53] This 70-year-old guy who claims to have been on one of the Apollo missions. And then you have this critique on there going, "Here's all the reasons why you're lying right now." So it's like you have this old--

[00:53:04] Alyson: That would be so awkward.

[00:53:06] Luke: I know. Well, homey Danny did a good job. He is really good at that type of thing, being a moderator. Most of his shows aren't like a debate, but yeah, he did a good job. Oh wait, wait, you got to let him say his part. And he was a good moderator. So I find that show really fun and interesting. Another one I listened to is called Dean Delray's Let There Be Talk. And that's a comedian, Dean Delray.

[00:53:30] We're around the same age and we have a lot of the same life experiences. He's from the Bay Area in California, and we grew up on the same heavy metal and was just like-- if he wasn't a few years older, I probably would have known him and friends with him at some point. He's a comedian. A really funny comedian. I think we went to see him. Yeah, you were with me.

[00:53:52] Alyson: The name rings a faint bell, but--

[00:53:53] Luke: He's got a shaved head.

[00:53:55] Alyson: I don't recall.

[00:53:55] Luke: Yeah, downtown Austin. But anyway, Dean Delray mostly interviews musicians and stuff like that. Then a new one I just started listening to-- a lot of these are music, is The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan, and he interviews mostly musicians.

[00:54:14] Alyson: I thought that you were not a fan of him.

[00:54:18] Luke: Oh. Yeah, I was never a fan of the smashing pumpkins. Yeah. When The Smashing Pumpkins and bands--

[00:54:26] Alyson: Didn't you style him?

[00:54:28] Luke: No, I never worked with Billy Corgan. What you might be remembering is when I was a waiter--

[00:54:33] Alyson: Oh, that's what it is. You had a story.

[00:54:36] Luke: Back in the late '90s, and he was a really big rockstar at that time.

[00:54:39] Alyson: He was a jerky turkey to you.

[00:54:41] Luke: I'm not going to hold it against him, but yeah. I would wait on celebrities all the time. It's like Hollywood. I don't know why I remember this of all things, but it didn't happen that often. But yeah, he was eating lunch and I was their server, he and his girl, a date or whatever. Super busy that day. I was, as you say, in the restaurant industry. I was in the weeds. I was under water. There's no way I could have kept up and given great service. So he probably got shitty service, but he stiffed me. Yeah. No tip.

[00:55:13] Alyson: Yeah, I remember you had a story.

[00:55:14] Luke: And I'm like, "Bro, you're quadruple platinum." He could have given me a 10,000-dollar tip and not even blinked probably. And so yeah, that one stuck in my mind.

[00:55:25] Alyson: Well, that's very nice of you to offer him some downloads when he didn't give you a dollar.

[00:55:31] Luke: Hey, we're all evolving. It's a really good podcast. He's a great interviewer and he has people on that are really interesting, and I'm just obsessed with music, and I'm just a music geek. So I love the history, and I want to know what amp they used and what studio and who was playing what part. Who wrote the lyrics? Who wrote the music? Who wrote that really weird bridge? Oh, it was the keyboard player. I'm just a music fan and geek.

[00:55:54] Alyson: I know if my podcast, Ceremony Circle, was still fully alive and well, that would've been at the top of your list, I'm sure.

[00:56:04] Luke: Of course. Your podcast is great. I did poach a few guests from you.

[00:56:12] Alyson: Yeah. That's true. I just got a message yesterday from another person, like-- it's been on such a long hiatus. I think solid two years now. And when I did the announcement that I was going to take a break from it, I felt very, very certain that I-- well, I didn't know how long the break would be, but I felt very certain that it would resume at some point.

[00:56:33] And now as time's gone on, I'm just not totally sure. And just when I think, oh, I should probably officially consider that maybe a wrapped-up project, I'll get a DM or an email from someone that's just like, "Are you going to bring Ceremony Circle back? It really changed my life or it really evolved me spiritually, or I got into this practice because of it.” And I'm like, "No." So it's just interesting.

[00:57:03] Luke: We will link to your podcast in the show notes, lukestrorey.com/5--

[00:57:09] Alyson: 653?

[00:57:10] Luke: 653. Yeah. And we will make that clickable in the show notes--

[00:57:15] Alyson: I love how I just inserted my podcast into your top 10 list.

[00:57:19] Luke: I'm glad you did. It's a freaking great podcast. For those that don't know, Alyson would have guests on, usually in the shamanic spiritual lane of many different cultures and lineages, and would interview them about their work and their perspective. And then every episode includes some sort of ceremony that the listener can participate in, which is a really cool idea.

[00:57:49] Alyson: Thanks.

[00:57:50] Luke: Yeah, please do shout out.

[00:57:51] Alyson: Carry on.

[00:57:53] Luke: Another one that might be more aligned-- maybe the person that asked that question is like, I don't care about music podcast, or Candace Owens, or whatever. But another really good one is Mitolife Radio by Matt Blackburn, an old friend of mine. He's like Jack Kruse, very counter narrative in the health space. So he debunks a lot of bullshit on his show, which I really enjoy.

[00:58:23] And also, according to his opinion or beliefs, debunks a lot of things that I'm really into. And I really like that because I like to question my own course. So he'll be critical of, I don't know, the Leela Quantum Blocs. He did a Instagram post where he was like blowing one up with the shotgun. He thinks they're total bullshit.

[00:58:46] And I go, "Hey, I'm going to look into their research a little more. Hang on." So I like people within the health space that are sort of counter narrative and ask questions and are also willing to pivot.

[00:59:01] So I really enjoy that show because I could go back and listen to one from four years ago and he's all into that everyone's overloaded with iron because he had Morley Robbins on and then he keeps researching and learning and reading studies and things like that. And then discovers like, ah, that view wasn't necessarily the only view. Many people--

[00:59:22] Alyson: That's nice. So he'll actually revisit and acknowledge that if his stance has evolved?

[00:59:27] Luke: Yeah, all the time.

[00:59:28] Alyson: Oh, that's cool.

[00:59:28] Luke: Yeah. And I think that's really healthy. One of the issues in the biohacking space and the alternative health space, in my opinion, is that somebody builds a personal brand based on a specific thing. I'm the carnivore person, or I'm the vegan person, or I'm this or that. And then it's like they hang their hat on that and start to build a business and a brand around that.

[00:59:53] And then I think sometimes even if they learn and evolve their understanding, they're stuck in that because now their identity is so tied into it. In many cases also, their income. So I've noticed over the years, I think, why is that person still in that lane? They've got to know better that things have evolved and moved on.

[01:00:16] Alyson: I had the sell your soul vibes a bit.

[01:00:19] Luke: That kind of thing. Yeah. So I really like Matt's show for that reason. And we're just into a lot of the same kooky stuff, and it keeps me kind of malleable and helps me to look at things in a different way. Another music geek podcast I listen to is called One Song, and I don't listen to all of these because oftentimes they cover songs that I just couldn't bear to listen to because they're just trash to me.

[01:00:48] But One Song will dissect a song per episode, but they play the stems, which means like, they'll play individual tracks from a multi-track recording. So they'll be covering, say, a Sly and the Family Stone song. And I always love that baseline and I want to hear what it sounds like stripped of all of the other tracks to hear exactly the tone, what they're playing.

[01:01:11] So these guys go super hardcore into one particular song and they literally dissect all the tracks. And I see that they've got Fleetwood Mac, Dreams, new in the feed. I haven't heard. I'll be listening to that today. The Ram Dass Here and Now podcast. I haven't listened to that in a while, but that's one if I'm starting to feel like I'm losing sight of the humor in my spiritual journey and just want to have a light reminder that this is all a game and there's only one way to win the game, and that's through awareness and love.

[01:01:49] So I find those Ram Dass podcasts really entertaining. I think the last time I probably listened to it was literally the moment my dad died in the hospital. I was listening to a conversation between Timothy Leary and Ram Dass as my dad's machines turned off, and that was the last time.

[01:02:10] Maybe that's why I haven't listened in a while. But when I want to just be grounded back into reality and just get reminded of truth, that's one I'll listen to a lot. The Spiritual Investor with Elizabeth Ralph, who's been on the show.

[01:02:26] Alyson: Yeah, she's cool.

[01:02:26] Luke: She has a really great podcast just about different ways of looking at monetary abundance and success from a spiritual point of view, which has been really helpful to me because I've historically compartmentalize those things and I've had a difficult time reconciling being financially secure and abundant, yet also not having money be my top value in life.

[01:02:54] Alyson: Yeah, yeah. I was just--

[01:02:56] Luke: But that doesn't mean it has no value. I think I've discounted money as like, ew, you're a greedy, gross person if you're into making money. And that you should just be spiritual and live in a cave and wear a robe and just eat rice. So somewhere in the middle of those paths, I think, is where that podcast exists.

[01:03:16] Alyson: Hmm. Yeah, yeah. I can relate to that. I was just sharing with you, I think this morning down by the fire, how it's not a new revelation. I've been aware of it for a very long time, but I know I've definitely allowed for blocks around financial abundance flowing in my life out of fear of how the outside world would perceive a shaman, spiritual teacher who also is incredibly wealthy.

[01:03:56] And just things that I've heard people say about other spiritual teachers I know are like, "Oh, that person's a charlatan or a fraud because they're a medicine woman and also a multimillionaire." Those two things would be impossible to coexist, which I know is not true. And I know it's everyone's birthright to live in the sovereign way that they choose.

[01:04:23] And if one of those things that they're here to learn or explore is to be both a spiritual author or guide or teacher and also a multimillionaire or billionaire, then wonderful. That's their path. I know those truths. And yet I know I've allowed fear of others having that distorted perception of me.

[01:04:48] I know I've allowed that to for sure hold me back in certain instances because integrity is such a big value of mine. And so, yeah, I just don't want-- if I am viewed as living at a certain caliber of monetary success, I haven't wanted outside perception to be of, oh, she says she's a shaman or she is a shaman, and she's a multimillionaire. Like that's a bad thing.

[01:05:24] And I know it's not, but I haven't wanted others to view me as that. So it can get really twisty, turny when you're in the spiritual space and also want to thrive in financial wealth and monetary abundance. It's everyone's birthright.

[01:05:44] Luke: I think that one's difficult because the vitriol toward people that are successful seems to come more so from people who are not successful in that capacity. So it's imbued typically with a lot of envy or jealousy, and those feelings are pretty sharp. When you feel that coming from people on the Internet, whether you know them or not, it bites a bit. People tend to get pretty mean when they're motivated by jealousy.

[01:06:27] Alyson: And also, not to get on the tangent because we're on the podcast too, but the other intriguing thing is a lot of the people that I know who are incredibly generous, like let's say they are multi, multi-millionaires, you don't know what they're doing on the backend either. Oftentimes they are very generous with their charitable donations or the ways in which they support various people or, I don't know, Native Americans or whatever.

[01:07:05] I'm just trying to come up with examples. And they also aren't touting that publicly. So it's like the ways in which this can all get convoluted are plenty because someone who's having that jealous perspective or that viewpoint that you can't be this and that also aren't privy to the full picture of how that person is operating in their millions.

[01:07:33] And you might not have any idea-- yeah, you might see them getting on a private jet. You might have thoughts about that, but you also might not have any idea as to where they put 500 grand last year. And so it's just when you don't know the person personally and don't know the full picture, I think it's wise to be aware of your judgments and opinions, and to be mindful of them.

[01:08:08] Luke: Yeah, and also where people came from. I think a lot of that jealousy has to do with seeing someone that's wealthy or perceives to be wealthy and that they didn't do anything to earn it. You know what I mean?

[01:08:25] Alyson: Yeah.

[01:08:26] Luke: My first job was a dishwasher in a pizza parlor for like $4 an hour. Nothing was handed to me at all. My dad had some money, but he is not the kind of dad that gives his kids money or makes life easier for them in that way because he wanted me to learn and my brothers to learn how to be self-made.

[01:08:49] I remember many years ago-- I have two step brothers and then two half-brothers. And so when my dad was married to his wife, just all the kids got the same thing. So if he sent one of us 100 bucks, then everyone got a hundred bucks. And I don't remember what the occasion was, but there was one year where-- this is just a few years ago where I think he sent us all five grand.

[01:09:16] And I was like, "Damn." That was huge. And for most of my life, my dad could have afforded to send me five grand once a week probably. You know what I mean? But it's just his ethos was that of didn't want to do us the disservice and rob the dignity of our own journey and really earning what we have.

[01:09:40] And I think a lot of people don't realize that many people start from nothing. And you might look at them as privileged, but if you knew their backstory and the things they've been through in life and what they've had to overcome in order to be where they are, you might give them a bit more grace.

[01:10:00] And I've also never, that I can recall, known a wealthy person that sits around bitching about other wealthy people. But we know some pretty wealthy people. I look at them. I just go, "Wow, that's cool. How'd they do that?" Because they're really good people. They're not ostentatious.

[01:10:23] Alyson: Yeah, they're super down to earth.

[01:10:23] Luke: Yeah. Just normal, humble people. And you would never know that unless you were like, "Wow, that's an expensive car." You see their home. Or maybe--

[01:10:30] Alyson: 10 homes.

[01:10:31] Luke: Where they travel or something. But it's like being financially successful doesn't make you inherently greedy, selfish, privileged, undeserving. Just certain people have cracked codes. They get it. They just get it on a different level, and they're good at that.

[01:10:51] So that podcast, anyway, to circle back to my favorite podcast, and we'll whiz through the rest of them, but the Spiritual Investor is a really good starting point if you're someone who's spiritually inclined, but also don't want to live in poverty and scarcity. So I'm going to be actually taking her course this year, which I'm excited about.

[01:11:12] Okay, a couple more here. State Amorica. It's a Black Crowes podcast. It's some just super geek fans. It's like deadheads, people that are just obsessed with the Grateful Dead. These guys are like crow heads

[01:11:25] Alyson: I didn't that existed.

[01:11:26] Luke: You don't even know. I listen to this all the time. And I'm not even a huge Black Crowes fan. They're a great band, one of the best probably American bands of all time, but they're not like my band. I like some of the songs. Some I don't. But it's a great podcast because they're so obsessed and passionate, it's like infectious to me that I want to learn why they're that passionate.

[01:11:52] Another really good one is Tetragrammaton. That's a hard word to say. That's Rick Rubin's podcast, and I don't listen to all those because oftentimes he'll interview an artist or sculptor, playwright. He interviews a lot of people in the arts, but they're not always people that I'm necessarily interested in. But when it's someone I'm interested in, his podcast is epic. And then, let me see what else.

[01:12:20] Alyson: Let's do two more.

[01:12:21] Luke: Two more. Vedic Worldview by Thom Knoles. He taught Jeff Kober, our friend, who's a Vedic meditation teacher.

[01:12:29] Alyson: I know Thom's son.

[01:12:30] Luke: Yeah, yeah. And so that's really good and short episodes, which are just grounded in Vedic philosophy. Then The Way Forward with my friend Alec Zeck. We have a similar tone of show, and he has a lot of great guests on. He is a great interviewer. And that's my hit list. that's it right here on the podcast app.

[01:12:53] Alyson: You heard it here. And I can honestly say I listened to not one podcast, so I have nothing to add to that list.

[01:12:59] Luke: Yeah.

[01:13:00] Alyson: But I'm glad I learned something new. So thanks, Pia, for asking the question because I learned what my husband listens to. I didn't know half those.

[01:13:09] Luke: It's funny because most of those are probably ones I would assume Pia is not interested in if she listens to this one. So I wish I could give you other shows that are like, "Hey." I wish I could give her other shows that are similar to this one, but maybe she'll dig some of those.

[01:13:26] Alyson: Well, Ceremony Circle's close. I mean in some of the stacks.

[01:13:29] Luke: It is, it is. Yeah.

[01:13:31] Alyson: Okay. Oh, good lord. So I'm going to give you an option here to keep it spicy. Do you want to do Luke's latest or do you want to do another question?

[01:13:44] Luke: We could do Luke's latest.

[01:13:48] Alyson: Because I've been intrigued honestly. Ever since these bottles arrived to the house, I've been really drawn to them, and I don't understand. Do you ingest this? Is it an oil you put on you? What's going on in these bottles?

[01:14:03] Luke: These are our perfume.

[01:14:05] Alyson: Are they perfume?

[01:14:06] Luke: They look like it.

[01:14:07] Alyson: Yeah, I didn't know.

[01:14:09] Luke: They're really beautiful. So these all came in a really gorgeous box. It's funny because I read the label for about a week and I thought it said super shroom. I just inserted an S in there. It's called Superoom.

[01:14:21] Alyson: Superoom?

[01:14:22] Luke: And they're mushroom extracts.

[01:14:24] Alyson: Okay, explain.

[01:14:26] Luke: So medicinal mushrooms, chaga, reishi, cordyceps, lion's mane, the heavy-hitting four. Now the thing is with the mushroom market, it's like the CBD market. It's so oversaturated. And over the years, as medicinal mushrooms or as some call functional mushrooms have gained popularity, they've also gained a lot of grifters and people that just throw together cheap-ass, worthless products and steal your money.

[01:14:52] So I'm very weary of the mushroom space for that reason. And found this company. And the way that they're doing it is really interesting in terms of extraction and the fact that they're organic. They're only fruiting bodies. They're highly concentrated and they're extremely bioavailable. So I wanted to try them because they pass all of my criteria. And so, yeah, I got this box. And you can just tell based on--

[01:15:21] Alyson: Oh, so you do under the tongue.

[01:15:23] Luke: Mm-hmm. They're tinctures.

[01:15:25] Alyson: Okay. So you can also add them to smoothies.

[01:15:27] Luke: Yeah, totally.

[01:15:28] Alyson: I've been so fascinated because the color scheme, the branding is beautiful, and there's like a red bottle, a yellow, gold bottle, an orange bottle. And you're holding the blue one. And so I'm just like, how-- I don't know. I'm so intrigued. I'm mystified.

[01:15:43] Luke: I'm going to show for those--

[01:15:45] Alyson: They're beautiful.

[01:15:46] Luke: For those watching-- the package is insane. They're made in Finland. Fins are pretty into the medicinal mushrooms. Yeah, they're just gorgeous.

[01:15:54] Alyson: Will you slide one to me because I--

[01:15:56] Luke: Yes, you can try some. I would recommend-- that's the cordyceps. That's blood flow, energy.

[01:16:03] Alyson: I'm trusting. Do they have a flavor? Because you know how sensitive I am to--

[01:16:08] Luke: Oh, they have a very mushroomy flavor.

[01:16:10] Alyson: Really?

[01:16:11] Luke: Especially the chaga.

[01:16:15] Alyson: What about this one, the cordyceps?

[01:16:17] Luke: Take one drop.

[01:16:18] Alyson: Yeah. I am very sensory, sensitivo--

[01:16:21] Luke: To answer your question, yeah, you could add them to any drink. I just prefer sublingual because I'm a mushroom junkie. I want the full hit. I want it right in the bloodstream.

[01:16:34] Alyson: It's got a smell.

[01:16:35] Luke: Yeah. That's the thing you'll find, and I've talked about this when I had Julian from Life Cycle On. We actually did a test on some different mushrooms here. And so many of them are just basically like fiber, like sawdust.

[01:16:51] Alyson: So I'm holding the one-- cordyceps is for energy, endurance, and libido. I want to know what the rest of those are for.

[01:16:59] Luke: Okay. You can explore them all.

[01:17:01] Alyson: Well, no. Can you just tell me?

[01:17:03] Luke: Yeah. So reishi is calming. These are all tonic mushrooms.

[01:17:07] Alyson: What does it say? I want to know what the bottle says.

[01:17:08] Luke: Oh, the bottle says anti-anxiety, sleep, longevity.

[01:17:12] Alyson: Okay. What's the next?

[01:17:13] Luke: Reishi is known to be calming to the nervous system. Chaga, anti-aging, gut health, immunity.

[01:17:21] Alyson: And then what's this gold one here?

[01:17:22] Luke: The gold is my favorite. That's lion's mane. Focus, memory, mood.

[01:17:27] Alyson: I want to try that one. Is that one super mushroomy?

[01:17:30] Luke: Lion's mane is what most people use in their psilocybin microdose formula because of its synergistic effects with magic mushrooms and the way it affects your brain--

[01:17:43] Alyson: I want to smell it.

[01:17:44] Luke: And neurogenesis and so on.

[01:17:47] Alyson: This one's very strong-smelling. I'm scared of it. There's no way I can do two pipettes. I'll literally do two drops.

[01:17:56] Luke: Yeah, try it out.

[01:17:56] Alyson: Okay, mushroom friend. I am connecting with you in honor. I'm receiving you with gratitude. Thank you for your beautiful medicine, and I receive with ease and grace. Amen.

[01:18:11] Luke: Funny thing about my relationship with mushrooms is, as you know, I can't stand mushrooms and food. You know our friend, Micah?

[01:18:22] Alyson: I do know our friend Micah.

[01:18:24] Luke: Yeah. Who's a chiropractor here. Shout out. 620 Chiropractic in Austin. Who's an amazing chef. He always cooks meals for every gathering we have. He loves to cook. He's really good at it. The other day when he made the stuffing for Thanksgiving, I saw one was no mushrooms. And I was like, "Dude, thanks for making stuffy no mushrooms because I hate mushrooms." He goes, "Oh my God, mushrooms are so disgusting. I hate them too."

[01:18:47] It's the only person, I think I've ever met or talked to that hates mushrooms as much as I, but I love psilocybin mushrooms and I love medicinal mushrooms, and the taste doesn't bother me on either for some reason.

[01:19:02] Alyson: Well, I can confirm that two tiny little drops of lion's mane were fine for me. A whole entire pipette, I don't know.

[01:19:12] Luke: I'm like two to four pipettes.

[01:19:14] Alyson: That's nice. I want to know who did their branding because I'm about to revamp mine, so I'm like, "Maybe I need to hire theirs."

[01:19:21] Luke: Yeah. They really knocked it out of the park. So that's an exciting discovery here. Just when I think I'm really bored of mushrooms, someone comes out with an epic product.

[01:19:30] Alyson: I'm excited to finally understand what the heck those bottles are. It was driving me nuts. What else you got in Luke's latest?

[01:19:38] Luke: So the next one is, and I talked about this on our last episode, and I didn't have it up here, but it's a new phone called the Minimal Phone.

[01:19:50] Alyson: Oh, I remember you bringing this up. I was trying to understand it.

[01:19:53] Luke: Yeah. And so the idea with the minimal phone is that it's black and white, free of blue light, and is basically like a blackberry. If you look at it, it has like real buttons. I remember back in the day when I first switched from Blackberry to iPhone. I hated the freaking touchscreen. I'm like, "I want my buttons back." When I turned this on this morning, I had to put some passwords and stuff with the buttons and I was like, "Oh, these buttons are annoying."

[01:20:21] Alyson: Oh, really?

[01:20:22] Luke: I would just have to get used to it again because it's been so many years on the iPhone. But the idea, at least as I understand it with the minimal phone, is because it doesn't have all of the colors and all of the things that basically hypnotize you into getting sucked into your phone. It's meant to be minimal and really boring on purpose so that it is only used for functionality, not as mind control.

[01:20:46] So the thing I haven't figured out, because I just got this, is I don't know if I'm like at the point where I can change my real phone number and all my things to this. It also runs on Android. I've never used a Android product, so I don't know.

[01:21:04] Alyson: Does it hold pictures?

[01:21:05] Luke: Yeah, it does all the things. Yeah, it has a camera.

[01:21:06] Alyson: Can I see it?

[01:21:07] Luke: Yeah, you can. It's got a really nice feel and look to it, so I can't vouch for it because I haven't used it yet. But I'm excited to figure that out. So what I might do is get a secondary phone number with just a really cheap plan, like a burner phone, and then see if I can use this as the phone that I use for texting and email.

[01:21:32] And then kind of put the iPhone away and only use it when I need a good camera or when I need to see things in color, social media, etc. I don't know how it's going to integrate yet, but I'm excited about the possibility because the phone is like my arch nemesis, but it's also something that I find really useful. And so I thought this might be a way that I can better manage the use of my phone and use it more than it uses me.

[01:22:03] Alyson: That's funny. That's a good tagline.

[01:22:07] Luke: Yeah, you guys can have that. If Minimal ever sees this--

[01:22:10] Alyson: No, you know your value now. People can't just have things for free from your genius. You're learning your self-love. No. If you're interested in obtaining that epic tagline that my husband just came up with, you can email info@lukestorey.com, and we'll talk rates.

[01:22:28] Luke: Okay. There you go.

[01:22:29] Alyson: There we go.

[01:22:30] Luke: Let's give it a shot. And then the last one in Luke's latest is not new to me, but a rediscovery of sorts that I was reminded of. A couple of days ago I did one of many episodes with Daniel Vitalis, and it's funny because we never talked about his products, but he was talking about his lifestyle and how he rolls as a modern day hunter-gatherer and so on. And he's not like a huge promoter of his brand, but he has a brand called Surthrival. You've probably seen these around the house at various times.

[01:23:07] Alyson: I've used that one.

[01:23:10] Luke: Pine pollen. Yeah, yeah. And we were talking about hormone replacement and things like that. A lot of guys as they get older, get on TRT, and I'm like, "You don't actually need to do that." He makes this pine pollen product called Pure Potency, which also has-- what was it in here that prevents the-- when you have testosterone in your system, some of it turns into estrogen, and he has some other tonic herbs in here that prevent that breakdown.

[01:23:46] So basically the pine pollen, especially this one because it's quite strong, is you're taking testosterone from nature. What pine pollen is, is basically tree sperm that floats around in the air, and turns out humans can take it as long as it's made properly so that it's extracted and bioavailable. Otherwise you don't really assimilate it.

[01:24:09] And so this is made with organic grain alcohol. And when I stay on this stuff, my testosterone stays where it's supposed to be. And the other one that I'd forgotten about for a long time, which is a similar effect, is the elk antler extract. And so this has all of these bioavailable co-factors that also support your hormones and testosterone.

[01:24:33] And they're also good for women, which is why when we were on a protocol with you, I was like, "You got to keep your testosterone up because it's important for men and women." So that's my discoveries and discoveries for this week.

[01:24:51] Alyson: Wonderful. I enjoyed that segment of the programming.

[01:24:58] Luke: I like that we do that because people ask that so often. And sometimes when too much time goes by, then I can't remember, because I'm always researching things and trying things out.

[01:25:08] Alyson: Yes. We discover things out in the world, but there's also just stuff that gets magically sent here. We open our front door and we're like, "Oh." And then, yeah, it happens enough that we do lose track of it. Okay. Are you ready for another?

[01:25:23] Luke: Yes.

[01:25:24] Alyson: Let's go to Jack. Jack wants to know, "What would you say is the most compelling reason why anyone would want to finally prioritize responsibility and self-authorship after a lifetime of victimhood and externalization?” That's a big question, Jack.

[01:25:46] Luke: Yeah. Thank you, Jack. Appreciate that, brother. Power. Power comes from inside, and I've found that taking responsibility and accountability is the fastest and most reliable way I can be empowered to change my circumstances. Anytime I've felt like, or whether I've felt like the victim or I've played the victim in dynamics that repeat, it renders you impotent, inert. You're stuck.

[01:26:26] It's so hard to find the power needed to get yourself out of a situation or change a situation when you believe yourself to be the victim. And that's not to say that people aren't victimized that don't deserve it. The archetypes of perpetrator and victim are very real in this realm.

[01:26:47] But I've found, looking at my own life, that honestly, with the exception of some ways in which I was victimized when I was too young to make decisions for myself-- I don't want to say everyone because I'm sure there are a couple where I was also innocent and just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[01:27:10] But most situations I look back on in my life where I felt like someone harmed me or defrauded me or exploited me, or whatever the case may have been, I made decisions out of ignorance or selfishness or naivete that put me in a position to be heard. If you look at those situations objectively, you could say, "Luke was right. He was the victim. This person was wrong, and they were unethical or out of integrity or whatever."

[01:27:42] But why was I in that situation to begin with? It goes back to what we were talking about earlier with raising our standards and valuing myself. So in most situations where I've felt like a victim, taking responsibility and being honest with myself and being accountable doesn't mean that I've justified the other person's behavior. It just means that I've owned my part in contributing to putting myself in that situation. It's like the story of the frog in the scorpion. Have you ever heard that one?

[01:28:16] Alyson: I feel like I have, but refresh me.

[01:28:18] Luke: All right. So on the bank of a river, there's a frog who's about to cross, and the scorpion comes up to the frog and says, "Hey, I'm trying to get across the river too. I know you can swim. Is it cool if I just jump on your back and you give me a ride across?" And the frog's like, "Hell no." [Inaudible]. He says, "You're a scorpion. You'll sting me." He goes, "No, no, I promise. I'm trying to get to the other side. Why would I ever sting you and drown?"

[01:28:41] And he thinks about it. And frog says, "All right, that makes sense. I'll trust you. I'll give you a ride across the river." So they proceed to swim across. Scorpion's on the frog's back, and they're halfway across, the scorpion, boom, stings the frog. The frog looks around and says, "What the hell did you do that for?" And he said, "Because I'm a scorpion.”

[01:28:59] Alyson: Mm-hmm.

[01:29:00] Luke: That thing describes most of the situations in my life where I felt victimized through my own stupidity, lack of awareness, whatever, immaturity.

[01:29:13] Alyson: And also the example of, I won't give details, but we've chatted about a scenario years ago where, as this relationship was presenting itself in your life, you literally heard loud and clear within your own being, this is going to be a problem. And yet you went ahead and cultivated that relationship anyways. And the other thing that was flashing in was when you said, put yourself in the position to be hurt. And if you believe in the adage that everything's happening for you, not to you, then you could say, put yourself in the position to learn.

[01:29:54] Luke: Yeah, that's good. That's good.

[01:29:55] Alyson: But you know what I'm saying. There's that other thing where you literally knew and you leaned in anyways, because why?

[01:30:04] Luke: Yeah. Ignoring our intuition in that particular circumstance. Yeah, I met someone and my intuition was like, "This is going to be bad." But I wanted something in that particular situation. And most of them, there's something like a shortsighted, again, not looking at the eternal life, but looking at this temporary life and whatever my needs or wants are is compromising my integrity or ignoring the gut feeling or intuition because I believe erroneously that I have something to gain.

[01:30:38] And getting myself into those situations. But taking responsibility feels so good. It's empowering, but taking responsibility doesn't mean that I'm now the perpetrator against myself. There's a fine line there between acknowledging and taking responsibility versus self-condemnation and shame.

[01:31:00] It's like the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt is I did something wrong and I go, "Ah," I have a healthy sense of regret where shame is not, I did something wrong. Shame is I am wrong. What and who I am is so deeply flawed that I'm unlovable. That's how that can go.

[01:31:19] So rather than beating myself up when I realize I've made a mistake or that I contributed to something that ended up causing me harm, whether it was at the hand of another person or not, it's like a quick, honest check-in to go, "Ah, okay. Let me trace back the steps here and let me just be really honest and objective. What decisions or actions that I take that put me in that vulnerable place."

[01:31:47] And in that, forgiveness becomes so much easier. Not forgiveness that I'm not allowing the other person to assume their responsibility or to be accountable to what they've done. And in some cases, a boundary might be necessary where I don't interact with that person anymore. But the path to self-forgiveness, forgiveness of others, the path to personal empowerment is in taking responsibility.

[01:32:12] Alyson: I agree. The other part of that is, I would say, the vast, vast majority of the time, you are not trapped. You have a choice. And sometimes in some scenarios you might feel like you're trapped or something has happened to you and you're trapped by that. But if you really take an honest inventory, and this might not be 100% of the time, but the vast majority of the time, I think you will realize that, like you just said, it is a choice. There was a decision that you chose to make.

[01:32:59] Luke: Mm-hmm.

[01:33:01] Alyson: And while that might not be a necessarily fun journey to take in that inquiry, ultimately you will regain your power back. The power returns to you because you're like, "Oh my gosh, I was not trapped by that. I actually chose that."

[01:33:21] Luke: Great example. We were working with an unnamed vendor to provide a service for the past few months. And at first their service was really good. And over time, there started to be a few minor problems, which you addressed with said vendor. By the way, this isn't any brands I promote or anything like that?

[01:33:44] If that happens, I would definitely call them out. But just to be respectful and classy, I'll say the vendor. So at first it was great. Their service starts to decline. Alyson steps up and is like, "Hey, you guys messed this up and that up." "Oh, I'm so sorry. We'll fix it. We'll fix it."

[01:34:02] But I noticed that Alyson was getting increasingly irritated by this. So one could say, I mean, in a mild sense, you were a victim of this incompetent company. So we talked about it a couple days ago because they made a mistake again. And we're going, "Why are we continuing to be on this merry-go-round and feel--" I don't know if we felt like victims, but it's very easy to resent them, be pissed at them. And it's like, I think we both realized we are voluntarily hiring this company, and we don't have to be.

[01:34:45] Alyson: Right. We're not trapped into anything here.

[01:34:48] Luke: Yeah. So it's like--

[01:34:49] Alyson: You can opt out at any time.

[01:34:50] Luke: I think for me in the past, I would settle for less than excellent in a situation like that in some circumstances because I want to be liked. It's like I don't want to advocate for myself because I don't want to make drama or I don't want people to think I'm a dick or something.

[01:35:09] But more so, I think it's inconvenient to have to switch to a new thing. You're getting a service from someone. Whether it's an employee or contractor you hire or something, it's like, ah, God. It's just going to be such a pain in the ass to retrain the new person.

[01:35:25] Alyson: Start over.

[01:35:25] Luke: I got to start over and learn their system and all that. So sometimes it's like out of laziness or just being too busy. But if I felt like a victim because I was getting really bad service, what's the benefit in taking responsibility is, if I'm honest, I'm the one that chose this company. I hired them.

[01:35:44] They made mistakes continually. I tried to help them course correct. They were unwilling to do so. So if I keep working with them and paying them, I've surrendered my right to complain about them. It's like either I accept it or I reject it. Period.

[01:36:00] Alyson: Well, the thing you said the other day when we were talking about this, I didn't even know that Jack was going to ask this question, but you and I were navigating this this past week, is how you were saying the energetic expenditure that goes into having these conversations and seeing if all parties involved can course correct and get on the same page, and the energy expenditure of the frustration when yet again, the standards weren't met.

[01:36:33] It's like when you repeatedly opt into and make the decision to "be a victim" to this, it's just so depleting. It's way more depleting than if you would just catch it quick, be honest with yourself, being like, "I'm not trapped by this. I can opt out right away." And go to scratch and starting over. There's way less energy leak with the option B.

[01:36:59] Luke: It's literally disempowering. Yeah, it's literally disempowering. And then to make one decision, which is just, I'm done, you're immediately infused with renewed resources. And those resources can now be applied to learning the new system, training the new person, establishing the logistics of said service or relationship or whatever it is.

[01:37:26] It's like, how much of my life have I burned up energy needlessly complaining about something, feeling like a victim about something, when I could have just taken that ball of energy that I'm wasting with resentment and complaint and critique to just switch tracks and just do a new thing and pour that energy into that?

[01:37:48] So, so many benefits to that. And that said, sometimes it's also important to acknowledge when we have been legitimately victimized, and sometimes there might be a legal course of action or some form of confrontation or acknowledgement that's necessary. It depends on the severity of the situation.

[01:38:14] The one that I'm speaking of now is very lightweight. You're hiring someone to do something and you don't like the way they do it. But I think when the relationships are more intimate and the harm is more grievous, obviously it changes the mechanics of how to deal with it.

[01:38:33] But having boundaries, taking responsibility, being accountable, these are all going back to the first question of self-love. Don't I love myself enough to demand the reciprocity that I'm willing to show up with? If I'm willing to pay my bill on time, be accountable for whatever my role in that dynamic is, then why wouldn't I expect the other person to at least meet, if not exceed what I'm bringing to the table? So it's high standards.

[01:39:04] Alyson: Hmm. Or just right standards.

[01:39:07] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[01:39:10] Alyson: Align standards.

[01:39:11] Luke: Accurate standards.

[01:39:12] Alyson: Accurate standards.

[01:39:13] Luke: Yeah, realistic standards.

[01:39:15] Alyson: All righty. Thank you, Jack. Let's really switch gears and go to Scotty. Luke, are you circumcised? And do you consider yourself an intactivist?

[01:39:34] Luke: The answer to both of those is yes.

[01:39:38] Alyson: All right, moving on.

[01:39:40] Luke: Unequivocally. First, I'm like, "It's a little personal." But no, I've talked about this a lot and actually wrote quite a bit about this in my book. And I'll give Daniel Vitals another shout out. I'm pretty sure he was the first male that I ever heard examining this practice that we call circumcision, which some of us call MGM or male genital mutilation, which is more accurate to what it is.

[01:40:10] Circumcision just has to do with your cutting a circle around something, making an incision that's circular. So it softens it quite a bit to what it actually is. And I've done some deep inner work on my own experience of that trauma over the years, and I'll preface it by saying I welcome everyone to have their own beliefs, and parents do what you want to do.

[01:40:38] If you've done that and now you've learned a bit about it and you regret it, I would invite you to offer yourself grace and forgiveness because we only do what we know how to do. As I've talked to both my parents about this, they didn't know at the time when I was born. It was just one of the menu items in a hospital birth.

[01:40:57] And it's like, that's what's normal to do. Thankfully, in this country, even though we still do it more than many other countries, it is declining in popularity because there's more awareness around it. So an intactivist is someone who stands up for male baby rights, essentially, and their own rights as men.

[01:41:18] And I wouldn't say that I'm an activist, that I'm out in the streets or that I'm trying to change legislation or anything like that, but I do when it's appropriate and I feel called, definitely, to shine a light on the issue because I do believe it has far reaching implications, not only on the individual man, but also on our sexual partners throughout life, our experience of our own sexuality, the health of our sexuality, and on society as a whole.

[01:41:54] One of the things Daniel said at one point that really landed with me, he said, "People often complain about how insensitive men are, so unfeeling, so uncaring, so out of touch and just abusive, mean, violent." And he said, "Maybe if what the world wants and needs are men that are more sensitive, we should stop removing the most sensitive part of their body when they're a baby." It's like, wow.

[01:42:23] Alyson: Mic drop.

[01:42:24] Luke: Yeah. So I was thinking about this a couple of days ago, actually. I think about it quite a lot because it's just so present in my experience, and I've explored the ramifications in my own life, the way I've related to my body, the way I relate to partners that I've been intimate with, my lack of consciousness and sensitivity around sexuality and romantic relationships.

[01:42:56] And this isn't to absolve myself of responsibility at all, but it's to see some of the root behind that. And I was trying to-- I didn't frame it this way in my book because I don't want to be too confronting. I want people to start to be open to having the discussion and approach it with curiosity rather than defensiveness because people are very defensive around this.

[01:43:26] There are religious implications. There's also the element of male identity. So you'll find the people that I've noticed at least are most resistant to having the discussion about this particular issue are circumcised men. You ask an uncircumcised man what they think about it, they're like, "Are you crazy? Duh. Of course, you shouldn't do that."

[01:43:50] Because they're living their life in the body that God created for them. They're living in a body that's natural and not adulterated. And so there's a lot of defensiveness around this topic. So I'm careful how I talk about it generally.

[01:44:08] Alyson: Is that because some men just don't want to view themselves as-- flawed is not the right word.

[01:44:16] Luke: Well, we don't want to face that something--

[01:44:19] Alyson: That you were that level of potentially traumatized as a newborn.

[01:44:24] Luke: Yeah. Or thinking about that your parents did something that was really harmful, whether they knew what they were doing.

[01:44:33] Alyson: There's a lot of deep layers of confrontation.

[01:44:36] Luke: Yeah. There's a massive cognitive dissonance there. There's also a lot of propaganda and programming that comes from the medical system that has been completely debunked, by the way. And I've done two podcasts about this, which we'll link to in the show notes with people that can speak to the actual science and historical aspect of this.

[01:44:59] But there's literally no medical reason to do it. There's all the reasons that are claimed, why it's necessary and why it needs to continue, are completely fallacious and so easy to disprove. There's literally no benefit in it at all. So anyway, I have strong views about it, but I also encourage people to approach it with open-mindedness and compassion for those of us that have had the experience.

[01:45:30] That would be a situation in which I was victimized. That's a great example. 100%, I'm innocent. I have no choice. It's non-consensual. I can't speak yet. I can't advocate for myself. So that would be victimized. So I was looking at this a couple of days ago and I was just going to the core of like what that particular procedure is and how it infiltrated Western medicine and our culture here in America.

[01:45:58] And I was like, "Well, what is it, really?" My honest opinion is-- this might sound crazy to some people. I really don't care. This is my opinion. It is ritual satanic abuse. I believe that as much as I believe I'm sitting here in this chair. I really believe that it was implemented and integrated into the system as a form of abuse, of pre-verbal trauma.

[01:46:27] Alyson: This is not my lane at all. I'm literally just curious and trying to learn. And then you have doctors that just go into medical school and then that thing is already indoctrinated into the medical school. So they're just being trained in a way that they think is medically sound, I would guess.

[01:46:45] Luke: 100%. I think 99.999% of medical professionals in the world who participate in that particular procedure have no idea that what they're doing is harmful, and I'm sure believe that it's necessary and good. It's the same thing like in the layers of government and government institutions. Information is compartmentalized. Right?

[01:47:13] So if I go to medical school and I'm taught that this is normal and necessary, just like everything else I'm learning, why would I ever question it? It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or I'm Satanic or something. I'm talking about like the metaphysical, spiritual origins of it.

[01:47:35] And if you watch, which I don't recommend for the faint at heart, but if you watch a video of the procedure being done, I don't know how you call it anything else. There's all this propaganda around, oh, babies don't feel anything when they're young. And it's not something that really can be done with much anesthesia, if any.

[01:47:56] It's truly barbaric. You can just Google the tools that are used to do it. They look like medieval torture devices. It's just completely demonic, I believe. And I will never-- I don't know. It'd take a lot to convince me otherwise. Regardless of whether it's demonic or if it is an abuse ritual or whatever, as I believe it to be, many of us believe, aside from all of that, that it causes a lot of harm to the individual and to society.

[01:48:28] If you think about men who commit sexual crimes, men who abuse children, men who rape women, men who beat women, the porn industry, porn addiction--

[01:48:42] Alyson: Right. When you put in the work at tracing back, because the key thing in healing is getting to the root of something, I would venture to guess that oftentimes if you track it back one potential root of said dysfunctional or harmful behaviors in those ways could be disservice to them.

[01:49:02] Luke: Yeah. And pre-verbal trauma is really difficult to treat and heal because it happened at a time during which you had zero cognitive ability to understand or contextualize what's happening. And then when you're in a culture like we are, and most of the other kids, most of your other peers experience the same trauma and then it's normalized, when I was a kid, in the locker room, whatever-- I tried to avoid PE and sports like the plague, but there were times where I could go in the locker room and take showers.

[01:49:37] And it's like if a kid was uncircumcised, which isn't even a real term-- it's just actually when a kid is just normal-- they would be made fun of and called anteater and Snuffleupagus. I remember being a kid and being grateful that I didn't have something different about me like that because you could be the target of bullying and things like that, which is so freaking twisted.

[01:50:01] It's like the kids who aren't circumcised are actually the normal ones. Those of us that have been mutilated are the outcast, truly. So the bottom line, I think on the issue for me is, if you look at the perfection of nature's intelligence, nature's design, the complexity, the intricacy of all things in nature that I believe were created by God out of love, did God just make a mistake in that one area, that one critical area, the area that is paramount to human reproduction and the evolution of the species?

[01:50:45] It's like, ah, God messed up that one thing right there. I don't know. Maybe if our fingernails were a little off, I don't know. There are other things that maybe the design could be a little flawed in. But I don't see any flaws in nature. Everything in nature to me is absolute perfection.

[01:51:02] And so why would it be different with the male human body? And it's one of those things, those of us men that become aware of this issue, it's really difficult to face. And I can see why most men don't want to face it or they buck up against it. And there's a lot of resistance to it, defensiveness, as I said.

[01:51:21] Because it's really hard to acknowledge that you've been harmed in that particular way, especially because your sexual organs are so intimately tied to your identity as a man. That's what makes me a man. If I didn't have that thing, I would be a eunuch or I would be a woman if I had the opposite organs. So it's like, it's so tied into like your male ego identity, machismo, your prowess.

[01:51:52] Alyson: Also vulnerability too, because, as I've shared in other episodes we've done, I've been deeply involved in healing my own pre-verbal imprints and traumas. And so as I'm listening and learning in real time, I'm also correlating some of those pieces. Because you're pre-verbal, the newborn has to rely on their ability to cry and express in other ways to have their needs met, to feel safe.

[01:52:24] So I'm imagining and picturing these newborn baby boys exercising the only capacity for power that they have, is through them screaming and crying, and then those cries being unmet, unheard. And the person on the other side of that is a person in a position that's supposed to be protecting them and helping them heal.

[01:52:55] And again, nothing against these doctors, da, da, da. It's not what I'm saying. But that person is actually harming. And so I'm just seeing-- I have a vagina. I don't have a penis. I'm a woman. But there are some intriguing parallels in my preverbal things.

[01:53:17] It also pertain to doctors and things and the protection energetic. So I'm just like, "Oh." I'm now seeing it through that lens, through newborn boys who are going through this. You're at the hands and the mercy of someone in position of power who's supposed to be healing and protecting you, and they're actually the ones harming you, and you're watching them do it, and you're screaming and crying, possibly in terror and in pain. And so, yeah. Whoa.

[01:53:49] Luke: It's like guaranteed in terror.

[01:53:51] Alyson: That's some deep stuff.

[01:53:53] Luke: It's a really difficult thing to reconcile, so I have compassion for all men who just-- you start talking about this on social media, women will never attack you. It's circumcised men that are the ones that are going to attack you. And I can see why, because it's difficult to look at or to face.

[01:54:12] It's something for me that's required a lot of space for grief to just acknowledge and accept, wow, this was wrong. This was wrong. I can't reverse it. I can't go back in time. I can't change it. So how am I going to learn to grieve it and accept it? And that means in order to accept it as just part of my experience here on earth this time around, I can't get to acceptance until I walk through the grief.

[01:54:44] And the grief for me has to do with, for example, in this lifetime, I will never know what it's like to make love, to have sex, intercourse, in a natural way. What? It's like imagine if you're a man and the only sex you've ever had has been wearing a condom and you can't take it off.

[01:54:14] You'll never know what it's like to feel the full experience of sex without a condom. Well, when your foreskin's removed, which by the way, the amount of foreskin that's taken off a baby's penis during a MGM operation is about as big as the cell phone. It's a lot.

[01:55:36] Alyson: What?

[01:55:36] Luke: Oh yeah. Thousands and thousands of nerves and nerve endings. Yeah. We don't know this because sex still feels pretty good, but those of us that have been mutilated, we'll never know what sex could and should feel like. I believe it has a lot to do with problems that I've had and many men have with physical intimacy and feeling safe emotionally in a sexual experience and being able to--

[01:56:06] Alyson: Have a connection.

[01:56:07] Luke: Yeah, being able to truly connect in a healthy way. Not that it's not possible if you've been circumcised, obviously. But I'm guessing it would be easier to achieve and more innate if your body was intact as the way it was when you were born, how you were created.

[01:56:26] Alyson: As God intended.

[01:56:27] Luke: Yeah. So to me it's a travesty and it's, at the very least, whether it's demonic or not, a massive and blatant human rights violation.

[01:56:43] Alyson: Do you have any idea how many countries in the world do it verse don't have this practice?

[01:56:51] Luke: I've done a little research on it, but I'm also not the type of mind that is very data-driven in the sense that I can remember. There's a great film, which we'll put in the show description called American Circumcision with Brendon Marotta, who was on my show many years ago.

[01:57:10] Another one was Eric Clopper, who is now, I believe, became a lawyer and is a real-life legal advocate. And in that film is where I saw a video of the procedure taking place, and I think that's when it really landed for me. But when I did some research for the book, I know that it is declining in popularity in America, but we're still one of the leaders. It's not very common in Europe. Not very common at all in Scandinavian countries.

[01:57:46] Alyson: I would guess not in Africa.

[01:57:47] Luke: I forget what the deal was with Africa. Many countries in Africa are still doing female genital mutilation, which was made illegal here, I forget, during the '70s or '80s, but up until a few decades ago, you were allowed to do it to little girls too. And then people realize, wow, this is kind of unethical. Let's stop that. But no problem. Keep doing it to the boys. But yeah, Africa, I don't remember what it was, but--

[01:58:14] Alyson: Interesting.

[01:58:15] Luke: Yeah, I think in some places it happens and in some it doesn't, from what I recall. But my European friends that I've talked to about this, they're just like, "No one does that where I'm from.” It's a largely American phenomenon. But as I said, thankfully, because of the intactivist out there and hopefully people like me and others that are willing to have the uncomfortable conversations around it, that parents will at least do some more research before they elect to do that.

[01:58:45] Alyson: Thanks for sharing. I've not really delved into that or had a conversation around it. It was very--

[01:58:50] Luke: It's an important question. And I will reiterate, as I said in the beginning, none of my beliefs or opinions are meant to instill shame or anything in any parents that believe in it or that have done it and now regret it. It's like, we're all figuring this out.

[01:59:05] Alyson: Or the doctors who are just trying to do the right thing.

[01:59:07] Luke: Yeah, 100%.

[01:59:10] Alyson: I am not feeling the greatest today. We've been going for two solid hours and my bladder's currently full. So what do you say we end on this note?

[01:59:20] Luke: I think it's great. It's always great to end with a full bladder.

[01:59:24] Alyson: Yeah.

[01:59:25] Luke: Because then you get the satisfaction of having a wonderful conversation and then you're rewarded at the end with a beautiful sense of relief.

[01:59:33] Alyson: Wonderful.

[01:59:34] Luke: And thank you as always, my sweetheart, for sitting down and creating these episodes with me.

[01:59:39] Alyson: Yeah, it's fun.

[01:59:41] Luke: So fun to sit and talk to you. And I love getting your perspective too. You have obviously a lot of wisdom to share, so I like when the questions are-- these ones happen to be more psychological, metaphysical in their nature. Sometimes there's a lot of very biohacky questions and I'm like, "Ah, it's going to be boring for Alyson."

[02:00:00] Alyson: Yeah.

[02:00:02] Luke: Although we should do a show one of these days, like, what are your latest biohacks? Because you pick some things up here and there that you gravitate toward.

[02:00:09] Alyson: We'll see. Now I would consider this, so I'm not going to get into our next. I'm too tired and bladder full, but this would be one of Alyson's latest. I would classify this as biohacking because in this crystal-- I don't know. What would you call-- this is a--

[02:00:31] Luke: Amulet?

[02:00:32] Alyson: It opens, this necklace, even though it's a crystal necklace. I fill it. You can take the top off and I fill it with water. And anyways, I'll give more details next time. But this would be my version of biohacking, is--

[02:00:50] Luke: Cool.

[02:00:51] Alyson: Placing prayers for a very specific reason into sacred waters and infusing it in a certain way and then wearing it. That to me is biohacking.

[02:01:02] Luke: Yeah. I'm hoping to retire the term biohacking.

[02:01:07] Alyson: Yeah.

[02:01:08] Luke: I've been looking for replacements. The best one I've found so far is bio-harmonizing, is to support the physical vessel in finding homeostasis and balance, giving it what it needs and wants rather than what I want it to have or do.

[02:01:28] Alyson: I like harmonization, unification, integration. I really enjoy all three of those words.

[02:01:35] Luke: Me too.

[02:01:35] Alyson: Biointegration, bio-unification, bio-harmonization. Any of those I like better than biohacking.

[02:01:41] Luke: What about bionic?

[02:01:43] Alyson: I don't even know what that means.

[02:01:45] Luke: You remember the bionic man?

[02:01:46] Alyson: Not really. I think it was a touch before my time.

[02:01:49] Luke: Yeah, yeah. Well, I got 10 years on you. All right. Thanks for joining us today on the Life Stylist Podcast. If you've watched this on YouTube, I request humbly that you subscribe to the channel so you get fed these videos because you won't be fed them otherwise.

[02:02:07] That's how the YouTube game works, and we've been putting a lot of effort and thought and money and creativity into the video aspect of this show. I really enjoy watching some podcasts, some more than others, so I would like this to be one that people watch. So definitely engage with us on YouTube.

[02:02:25] Alyson: And you can see Cookie every episode.

[02:02:27] Luke: Yeah, you can see Cookie here on the center A camera when we flash to that one. And also, for those that don't know the video versions are also available on Spotify. So if you listen to this podcast on Spotify, guess what? There's videos for at least the past few months or year, or something.

[02:02:45] Alyson: If you watch this one, you can see my mini of colors and patterns from my socks to my pants to my sweater.

[02:02:54] Luke: Yes. You always have a great ensemble. All right. God bless everyone listening. Thanks for joining us, and we'll be back on Tuesday.

[02:03:02] Alyson: Tata, for now.