[00:00:01] Luke: So Alex, how did you go from being afraid of heights as a kid to being a freaking pilot?

[00:00:08] Alex: I love that question. Great way to start off.

[00:00:10] Luke: When I think about flying a small plane, I can't think of anything more terrifying.

[00:00:15] Alex: Yeah, really.

[00:00:16] Luke: Or a big one for that matter. But especially the small ones because you just feel so much more vulnerable.

[00:00:21] Alex: Mm-hmm. Yeah. People don't typically like small planes. Yeah, I was a pretty afraid of heights as a kid. Wouldn't go on balconies or would freak out over on bridges and amusement park rides. And my parents were onto this and they saw that this fear was holding me back. So they intelligently set up a flying lesson for me without me knowing.

[00:00:47] And one day my dad brought me to the airport and introduced me to this guy, Bill Houston. And Bill Houston started giving me a tour of the airport. And he is like, "Here, I'll show you the hanger. Cool. I'll show you this airplane. Hey, this is cool." And he is like, "Here, we'll go taxi you over there."

[00:01:02] So we taxi and then all of a sudden we're taxiing the plane. I hear, okay, whiskey, November, x-ray, you're clear for takeoff. And I'm like, "Holy shit, this is happening." So I'm, I'm in that fear state. I'm super anxious. I'm probably starting to break a sweat at that point. And before you know it, we're taking off.

[00:01:21] And as we're taking off, he says to me, "Okay, Alex. You have control." And he basically let's go of the yoke. And I had to choose in that moment to take control. And I did. And so now I'm flying the plane. And it was literally in that moment that the fear became an illusion.

[00:01:43] And I realized it in real time and I was like, "Holy shit, I'm not afraid of flying. This is wild." And I'm going higher and higher, looking over my hometown. I see my neighborhood, my school, and all this kind of stuff. And it was surreal. At that point, it was a peak experience of my life and it literally got to dissolve fear in real time. And from there I became obsessed with flying and pushing the limits.

[00:02:10] Luke: Like an exposure therapy type deal.

[00:02:13] Alex: Heck yeah.

[00:02:14] Luke: How old were you?

[00:02:15] Alex: I was 17 on that first flying lesson. Yeah.

[00:02:18] Luke: Wow. And then you went on to do that professionally?

[00:02:21] Alex: Yeah. I basically showed up at the airport the next day and the day after that, and the day after that. And I was just obsessed. I couldn't wait to get back in the airplane. I became a private pilot at 18. I became a commercially licensed pilot at 20. I went on to teach the military at 24 years old, teaching people in the military. It was super cool. It was like this whole Top Gun experience.

[00:02:43] And I really just had that feeling or knowing that fear was fake. It was an illusion that I was believing in. And once I stopped believing in that or agreeing to that, everything changed. And I really just full sent it through my 20s in that aviation career and into entrepreneurship. But that was the catalyst for sure.

[00:03:09] Luke: That's epic. Would you today go on that glass platform on the Grand Canyon that goes out over the canyon? You would?

[00:03:19] Alex: Yeah.

[00:03:20] Luke: I don't think of myself as someone who's terribly afraid of heights, but when it comes to shit like that, there's no way. I couldn't do it. I would wet myself.

[00:03:30] Alex: It's one of those innate fears, and I'll still sense that like, wow, death is here. It's very close in those moments. But there's something about that. I've gotten a new relationship with death over the years and heights played a factor in that for sure.

[00:03:51] Luke: All right. One thing I ask every pilot I get the opportunity is this. And I've learned, you have to word it a certain way, especially with commercial pilots, the OGs, guys have been flying 50 years. I've gotten the wrong answer many times, what I want to know is this-- I had this guy Flat Earth Dave on the show.

[00:04:09] Alex: Oh, I knew where you're going this direction. I love it.

[00:04:11] Luke: And his case was very compelling. There were just things I couldn't deny or couldn't explain away, just basic laws of physics, like being able to see too far, for example, like on a body of water.

[00:04:25] But one of the ones, one of the arguments for the shape of the earth that's always been challenging for me to explain away is that when a plane is flying across a long distance, and understand I'm not a master of physics, so I could be missing something huge here, but if a plane is flying a few hundred miles, a couple of thousand miles, if they were going over a ball, it seems to me that to maintain the same altitude, they would need to dip the nose down a couple degrees so that they didn't end up going up.

[00:05:08] If you're going over a ball, you have to hug the ball, which means you'd have to dip the nose of the plane down a little bit constantly so you didn't end up going up in altitude as you went over the curve of the ball. So my question is this, are there any adjustments made when you're flying that account for the elevation and altitude you would have if you were going over a ball?

[00:05:34] Alex: No, definitely not. You never have to adjust on a downward. And that makes total common sense when you put it that way with a globe. It makes me think you'd be landing upside down in Australia. By the time you got to Australia, how would that look when you're flying all the way around? Is the plane upside down? It doesn't really make sense.

[00:05:58] And this may throw people right off the get go, but I'm not saying I know what shape the earth is. I don't know what shape it is. All I know is, someone that spent thousands of hours in the sky, very high altitudes, much higher than even commercial passenger plane, I flew private jets for a while. They go much higher. They go much faster than commercial planes. I've never seen a curve.

[00:06:27] I've never seen a curve. And the one that always came up for me, Luke, is like, the earth is supposed to be spinning at 1,000 miles an hour or something like that. So imagine you're flying and then the ground beneath you is also moving. Landing on a moving target as a pilot, for me, I don't even know how that could be done. It blows my mind. So those are questions that--

[00:06:55] Luke: That's true. And say if you were flying a plane and you were going the same direction as the spin or the supposed spin, when you're going that direction, you would get there much faster than if you were going against it. Right?

[00:07:12] Alex: Yeah.

[00:07:12] Luke: Or that's the other way around maybe. The other way around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you were going against the spin, then you would get there in half the time or more.

[00:07:20] Alex: Yeah, against the spin. Let's say you're going from LA to New York or something and you're going against the spin. It seemed like you would get there a lot quicker because the earth is moving towards you. That doesn't happen. There's so many weird things like that.

[00:07:33] I would encourage people-- this is the one that I like to get a kick on, and I don't know the answer. All I know is something is very weird, but if you look at the quantities of jet fuel that they say goes into a commercial airliner, look up the numbers. What is the jet fuel required to fly from here to there? And it's these huge amounts of jet fuel, like swimming pool size numbers, Olympic swimming pool size numbers.

[00:08:04] And then go look at the wing of a commercial plane the next time you're on it and you're sitting there. The wing is like this thin. An Olympic-sized swimming pool's six, seven-feet deep, at least. It doesn't add up. There's something so fishy about that, and I haven't figured out what that is all about, but definitely some weird things, being a pilot and getting into.

[00:08:28] Luke: That's interesting. Yeah. Thinking about the amount of available square footage on a commercial airplane versus the square footage it would take to hold as much fuel as they supposedly need to go from point A to point B. I've looked at that just at a glance and just on its face, it doesn't add up.

[00:08:48] Alex: Yeah.

[00:08:49] Luke: But then, like all of these kind of conspiracies, why would they lie about that? I can see why they would lie about the nature of our realm. That is a deep rabbit hole. Because there's a lot of mind control that becomes available when you get people to have a misconception or a total denial of like where they are in space and time and their purpose of being there and who put them there and all that.

[00:09:15] But like with commercial flight, is it so they can jack up the air fare? Because they're like, "Oh, it can cost more fuel to go to Indonesia, therefore it's five grand instead of 500.

[00:09:27] Alex: Yeah. I think it's some sort of money laundering thing and it's all write offs. So it's like, if we need X amount of gallons of fuel and that's hundreds of millions of dollars, oh, and that's a write off because it's a company expense--

[00:09:40] Luke: Oh, right, right.

[00:09:41] Alex: Something along those lines. Once you start looking at the numbers, and I encourage anybody to just Google it, it gets pretty weird.

[00:09:47] Luke: Another thing about the spin that trips me out is hot air balloons and helicopters that can fly up to altitude but remain stationary and then they can just land in the same exact spot when they come down.

[00:10:03] Alex: Yeah.

[00:10:03] Luke: It seems like when they go up, if it's spinning a thousand miles an hour, when they come straight down, they would be in a different place. But they're not. They're right where they were, which is weird.

[00:10:13] Alex: I think that's one of the easiest ones to [Inaudible].

[00:10:14] Luke: I've heard rebuttals to that that says something like-- which doesn't make sense-- well, they're spinning in the whole atmosphere. Just like if you have a bumblebee or housefly inside your car, then it's still going to be wherever you end up kind of thing. But that still doesn't make sense to me.

[00:10:33] Alex: Yeah. They throw words around, like atmosphere and stuff to just make it make sense to like harmonize it. But if that was the case, how would all the stars be in the same spot and all these kind of things? The earth is supposed to be moving 1,000 miles an hour while it's spinning through the galaxy at another thousands of miles an hour. But meanwhile, when we look up at night, the stars are in the same spot all time.

[00:10:57] Luke: And they've been in the same spot for all of recorded history.

[00:10:59] Alex: Yeah.

[00:11:00] Luke: That is a problem. All right, I digress. It's not even close to the topic of our conversation here today, but like I said, when I meet pilots, I have to ask them that because I want to know the truth. I don't even care what the truth is. I'm not attached to any outcome. I feel like we've been lied to from the second we were born about so many things.

[00:11:23] Some of them don't matter and some of them really do. I think where we are and what this place is that we live in or live on is pretty important to have a sense of purpose and to know that your life means something and that something put you here and created all of this.

[00:11:46] Alex: Yeah.

[00:11:46] Luke: That's pretty core. It doesn't really matter to me whether there's jet fuel in the wings of planes. Eh, not really. But it's just like every little lie I think that we can dissect improves our capacity for critical thinking and allows us to take responsibility for the beliefs that we hold and not just blindly go along with beliefs that have been implanted into our head by a system that is antithetical to our wellbeing.

[00:12:17] Alex: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:18] Luke: All right. So before you got into your company Eons-- we're going to be talking about that, of course-- you were in the cannabis business. And I've interviewed a couple people in the CBD space and some people that were cultivators and things like that. And I always find those stories interesting because there's such Wild West through those periods of illegality and then regulation.

[00:12:45] There's always some crazy shit. Someone was, "Oh, I made $5 billion and lost it a week later." There's always something to the effect of an interesting industry and business model. So give us a truncated version of your experience in that space.

[00:13:05] Alex: Yeah. It was a fun ride. It was a massive learning experience, and to your point, it had never been done. Cannabis was on prohibition for 100 years almost by the time that was legalized in Canada. So I was a pilot. I was a private jet pilot, and I was flying for a wealthy gentleman. He had a couple successful exits, successful entrepreneur, really sharp guy, really smart guy.

[00:13:34] And I could tell that he was bored. We were flying around. My job basically consisted of flying him around to different steakhouses that were opening up around the States and looking at new aircraft to fly around in. And I was like, "Man, you should really get back into entrepreneurship. Is this how you're going to spend your 40s, just flying around to look at helicopters and planes and stuff?

[00:13:58] And he is like, "If I did something, what would I do? I've already got my exits and stuff." And I'm like, "If it was me, I would get into cannabis." And he's like, "Cannabis? It's illegal. What are you talking about?" I go, "Yes, it's illegal, but it's going to become legal. And there's a giant wave to ride when it becomes legal and it's a healthier alternative to alcohol. And it can actually help a lot of people in a medicinal sense.

[00:14:24] My mom got through her breast cancer using cannabis oil, so I had a warm place for cannabis in my heart. And I was a big cannabis user up until that point, off and on. So I had a good relationship with the plant, and I also saw that there was a gigantic opportunity to be had. And I was super excited by that. I was like, this is a once in a lifetime thing.

[00:14:46] Cannabis has always been illegal. It's going to become legal. So yeah, I basically convinced him. We joined forces and formed a company. We raised $60 million for that company and built out the most kick ass, state-of-the-art indoor cannabis growing facility in North America at that time.

[00:15:08] Luke: Really?

[00:15:08] Alex: Yeah.

[00:15:09] Luke: Oh wow.

[00:15:10] Alex: 650,000 square feet was the first facility.

[00:15:14] Luke: That is as big as this town.

[00:15:16] Alex: Yeah. It's like 10 Walmarts put together.

[00:15:19] Luke: That's crazy.

[00:15:20] Alex: It was a dream come true, and it was really a testament to having--

[00:15:23] Luke: What was your power bill like for that facility?

[00:15:28] Alex: Where it was in Quebec was very strategically placed. Because in Quebec, Canada has the cheapest hydroelectricity in North America. So that was a whole thing. I actually don't remember what the hydro bill was by the time it was fully operational. And a lot of it I think was a write off as well.

[00:15:45] But yeah, it was a dream come true. It was really seeing something I had from inception taking it to full fruition. By the time I left that company, it had 500 employees, many successful brands that I helped develop. Took it public. And by the time I left, I had, I think, 1.6 million square feet of indoor growth space. It was truly gigantic and a dream come true for a young cannabis lover at that time.

[00:16:13] Luke: Were you still smoking weed while you were running and building the business?

[00:16:19] Alex: I was up until 2020, and then I started experimenting with mushrooms. I started for gut health. I had some brain fog and fatigue and anxiety.

[00:16:31] Luke: Probably brain fog from smoking that cannabis, son.

[00:16:34] Alex: Yeah. Yeah, for real. Straight up. And it was a shareholder friend of mine that was a holistic doctor that put me on to functional mushrooms for gut health. And that's what gave me the clarity I needed to see, again, that I was using cannabis as a crutch, as a coping mechanism, to escape and not feel feelings that I was avoiding probably my whole life.

[00:17:02] And so once I got that clarity from the mushrooms, I was elevated, and that inspired me to dive deeper into mushrooms, psychedelics and microdosing and large journeys and all this kind of stuff. And that's when I really saw the power of mushrooms and I stopped smoking cannabis.

[00:17:21] So I felt I couldn't really be an ambassador for that plant anymore. And it felt weird to be part of a cannabis company that I was like, "Yeah, this is more of a coping mechanism and people are just using this to escape." And through that whole paradigm, I saw how the plant was being mistreated and genetically modified and the spirit of that plant is distorted.

[00:17:43] And I saw that in Ayahuasca as well. So it just didn't feel aligned anymore. So I was like, yeah, I want to do something that feels aligned. And mushrooms were that full-on alignment.

[00:17:56] Luke: Talk to me about how you saw the plant being mistreated and distorted for people that don't have that relationship with what we assume to be non-sentient being. This is the stuff Alyson talks about all the time. We'll be out and she's like, "Oh, that tree told me this and that."

[00:18:21] When I first met her, I was like, "Oh, that's cute." And then I have come to learn, no, she's really hearing something. So my growth in this area has definitely expanded over the past few years. But there would've been a time when you said like, "Oh, this plant's being mistreated because it's being hybridized and things like that. It doesn't like that."

[00:18:45] That kind of talk where it's like the plant has consciousness would've seemed weird to me more so than now where I get it after working on my own relationship. But what was that insight for people out there that perhaps don't use any real discernment if they choose to use cannabis? They might just think it's all the same. I interviewed this guy, Ryan Sprague.

[00:19:11] Alex: He's a great guy.

[00:19:13] Luke: He went into a lot of really interesting stuff about cultivation and the different strains that you use and how you treat the plants and growing them in a more natural way and all this kind of stuff. But I'm curious what your vision was when you're drinking ayahuasca and going like, "Oh, wait, this ain't right."

[00:19:31] Alex: Yeah. Ryan Sprague is great. He's one of those rare, true ambassadors of the plant, and I have a lot of respect for him. And in my experience in the cannabis space, there's not many Ryan Spragues out there. He's truly one of a kind. And I think he would agree with this, but yeah, the plant is being very mistreated overall.

[00:19:53] And like you said, everything that's alive, everything that has consciousness in all the kingdoms that the creator put on this earth, the plant kingdom, the mushroom kingdom, the mineral kingdom, the animal kingdom, human kingdom, we're all living in consciousness.

[00:20:08] And that consciousness is connected to spirit. And cannabis plant is no different. There's a cannabis plant spirit. It's a feminine spirit, and the indigenous know this. The tribes know this as well. And yeah, the plant, it's not the same spirit. It's not the same way that it was grown back when our parents were picking weed out of the bush and lighting up a joint.

[00:20:43] It's been genetically modified. It's been put together in these rooms to-- the feminine plant is looking to have a mate, so it creates these buds to attract a male plant. But there's no male plants in the rooms. So they grow these buds to be bigger and brighter and higher THC levels so they can attract a mate, which they never get. So the plant is very sexually frustrated.

[00:21:13] Luke: Oh, that's interesting. I never thought about that.

[00:21:15] Alex: Literally.

[00:21:15] Luke: I do remember from being a kid, if you let a male plant get in the mix with your females, you get a bunch of seeds.

[00:21:21] Alex: Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:22] Luke: You get a bunch of male plants. Don't they all turn male or something.

[00:21:25] Alex: If they're fertilized, yeah. They're germinated. If they're germinated, yes. So that's why you keep them separate. So the female plant is just constantly competing. They're constantly competing against each other.

[00:21:37] And in that they never get to mate really. And they're constantly just mixing the genetics, mixing the genetics over and over again to raise higher THC levels so that they can compete against each other. And in that, there's a lot of distortion and the plant spirit isn't really happy.

[00:21:59] If you can really attune to the plant's energy, you'll see. And that's my experience of why there's a lot of distortion around the plant. And it does give a lot more anxiety than it used to. Playing with that female energy is like playing with a female, a woman scorned.

[00:22:22] She's upset. She's not happy the way that she's been treated. And she'll lure you in like this temptress, and then eventually she'll give you these illusions of how you can change your life, but most people don't really act on it in that state.

[00:22:40] Luke: So true, dude.

[00:22:42] Alex: And those things never really manifest.

[00:22:44] Luke: That's so true. That's really interesting. I've told the story before, so I'll make it brief for those that already heard it. But a couple of years ago, maybe two or three years ago, I accidentally got high on some gummies. I thought they were just CBD, but they had some other shit in them.

[00:23:01] Alex: Yeah.

[00:23:02] Luke: And it was super scary because it was 10:00 in the morning, wasn't expecting it. All of a sudden, I'm just high as shit. And I've been sober for almost 30 years. I don't smoke weed. It was problematic for me, so I stopped doing it.

[00:23:17] And I'm panicking, getting all paranoid, totally freaking out. Then eventually I just had the idea, I just need to go put on some music and an eye mask and just journey this out and just see if there's something there for me.

[00:23:30] And to your point, I had all these insights and breakthroughs and creative ideas. The music started sounding really good. I almost got to the point where it was enjoyable and I thought, "Oh, this is like a plant medicine journey. It is." It is a plant, obviously. But when I came down and it wore off, I could not remember one thing that I thought had been meaningful during the experience versus ayahuasca or psilocybin or other plant medicines I've worked with.

[00:24:02] I can't forget what I learned. It's so deeply ingrained in terms of just insights and revelations that-- I'm sure I could forget if I didn't write them down or make some effort, but point being, when it wears off, I'm like, "Oh, shit. I got work to do." There's an integration list now of things I'm going to hold myself accountable to based on the truths that were revealed to me.

[00:24:27] But yeah, cannabis was just totally chaotic and not tangible at all. Which is really interesting that you describe that particular plant's essence as feminine energy because it's very chaotic. And it's multifaceted and multi-directional and it's emotive. It's dynamic. It's not static.

[00:24:52] Versus something like peyote or wachuma is like, you're very much in your body. Things are very grounded. Even though you might be having a deep experience in visuals and things like that, there's an order to it. And there's a real kind of disorder to cannabis, at least based on that one experience I had.

[00:25:13] Alex: Yeah. I think it's a common experience in that sense where she will do this dance with you and give you these insights, and then you wake up the next day and you don't really remember what happened. And then you're like, "Yeah. Okay, maybe I got to go back and revisit that."

[00:25:29] And then there'll be different insights, never really the same ones, and it's just this spiral. And then eventually she just takes more than she gives. It's less and less insights, more and more lethargy, more and more brain fog.

[00:25:44] And yes, it can be used intentionally. It can be a wonderful medicine for people that are really suffering. I totally get that. I'm not trying to take anything away from cannabis in that sense. I'm very grateful for my relationship with the plant. Taught me so much. And it also showed me that eventually she just takes more than she gives. And I just really value clarity so much. I'd just so much rather be clear than playing with that distortion.

[00:26:15] Luke: Got it. When you had the cannabis business, were you selling to dispensaries, making dabs and all this kind of stuff? Or were you a wholesaler and then people would essentially white label your products and create their own brands and things like that? Or were you guys a brand in and of yourself?

[00:26:35] Alex: Yeah, it was both. We were huge. We were a monster player in that game, and they were completely vertically integrated, where we grow it, we do all the different formats of cannabis from pre-rolls to hash to distilled, all the crystals.

[00:26:51] Luke: Hash, oh God. I used to love hash.

[00:26:55] Alex: Yeah. We brought back the hash. That was a whole cool thing that the OGs really appreciated. Yeah, so we did that. We had our own brands that I helped develop as well, which was really me finding my niche. I really enjoy brand building and building something that community gets involved in.

[00:27:15] And we also hold sale to other companies that were looking for quality product because it's not so easy to grow cannabis. A lot of people think they can do it, and then they get to a big scale and there's a lot of challenges. So we were good at wholesaling as well. And it was kind of cool to be able to sell thousands of kilos of cannabis legally to the government. Government's buying it as well.

[00:27:40] Luke: Really?

[00:27:41] Alex: It was a trip. Yeah.

[00:27:41] Luke: In Canada?

[00:27:42] Alex: In Canada, yeah.

[00:27:43] Luke: What do they do with it?

[00:27:44] Alex: The government runs it. The government runs the cannabis buying operation. So the store would have to have a license that's licensed through the government and they become the distributor. I forget exactly what it's called.

[00:28:01] Luke: Oh, interesting.

[00:28:02] Alex: Yeah. They become the distributor to the store. So it's not direct to the store. So you're selling to the government, which is pretty wild.

[00:28:09] Luke: Government tends to want their hands in everything, especially if there's money involved. All right. Last question on the cannabis topic. Has anyone developed a decaf hash yet? Because I would like that.

[00:28:21] I love smoking hash, the taste of it. When I was a kid, I used to just eat it. It didn't get me high, but I didn't know that, so I would eat it. But I would have so much hash that I'd steal from people's parents and shit when I was a little kid.

[00:28:38] I don't know what they weighed, but big ass bricks of black hash. I love that earthy flavor. It's a very unique flavor, the smoke, the smell of it. And I don't want to say I miss it because I never think about it, but when someone mentions, I go, "Oh, man, hash." Has anyone figured out a way to make like a TH-free hash just for the smoking experience?

[00:29:00] Alex: I don't think that's a thing.

[00:29:02] Luke: There's no money in it.

[00:29:04] Alex: Not that, it's just--

[00:29:05] Luke: I'm probably the only weirdo in the world that wants to smoke hash but not get high at all.

[00:29:09] Alex: Yeah. I don't think that's a thing because the whole way to make hash is by getting the resin, the THC resin. So it's just part of the package.

[00:29:20] Luke: A couple years ago I was getting like TH-free pre-rolls and they're quite nice. They don't taste as good as real bud, but it's nice.

[00:29:30] Alex: Yeah, those exist for sure.

[00:29:31] Luke: You get a pretty like solid CBD, not a buzz, but just definitely puts you back in your seat a bit.

[00:29:40] Alex: I used to smoke CBD too. I enjoyed it.

[00:29:42] Luke: Yeah. Yeah, it's nice. All right, so let's get into the mushrooms. You talked about how you enjoy building brands and you've got this brand Eons, which is I think how I first met you. Someone turned me onto your stuff and now we live down the road, so we become friends.

[00:29:57] And I just take it for granted, but I never really got the backstory on it. So take me through the launch of that and how medicinal mushrooms started to pull you in that direction.

[00:30:10] Alex: Yeah. So once I realized the impact that mushrooms can make-- it's really the oldest living technology in this world. It's the smartest living technology in this world, when you really start figuring out how smart it is.

[00:30:30] And it connects all plant life, all crops, all trees. They're all communicating through this mycelium network. It's like the original internet. It's like mother nature's brain. So it's the oldest, it's the smartest, it's the largest, the largest living organism as well as, is the mycelial network.

[00:30:45] So it's like, hey, if I'm going to align with one of these oldest living technologies, might as well be the mushrooms. Might as well be the mycelium. And so that was the inspiration. And it was really to go out and make an impact in the world, especially around mental health. I saw the power that it could do, transform my gut health, which is extremely connected to mental health.

[00:31:08] So it was about creating a vehicle that we could harness this technology and bring it out to the world and make what I believe is going to be the most iconic mushroom brand of all time. And when you think of all time, there's decades, there's centuries, there's millennials, there's epoch, there's eras, and there's eons.

[00:31:30] It's the longest period of time. It's the closest thing to infinity that there is. In every 100 million years, the universe sends out a pulse that changes the paradigm that we live in forever. And that's what this brand represents. It's going to change people's lives, truly.

[00:31:45] Because when you change your mind, when you change your psyche, your life actually changes. And you change the way that your awareness is in your consciousness. And that's what these mushrooms really do. They help actually change your mind.

[00:32:03] Luke: Well said. Yeah. If your mind doesn't change, good luck changing your life. I know that from firsthand experience. Let's go through some of the different mushrooms. We were talking about David Wolfe, no relation to you, Alex Wolfe. Someone asked me that the other day. Is he David Wolfe's son?

[00:32:19] Alex: Yeah.

[00:32:19] Luke: I don't think the ages match up, but I always got to give him credit. He was the first guy 20 years ago maybe, that I ever heard talking about lion's mane, Cordyceps, reishi. What's the other one? Chaga, cacao, Chinese herbs, ashwagandha, Ayurvedic herbs.

[00:32:41] He was the guy that was he raw vegan, hippie dude that only a certain sect of people would buy into. And then over the years I've watched mushrooms and cacao and all those things that he used to promote so consistently, now they're like a thing. It's really cool.

[00:33:01] I see like young people on TikTok, like, "I like Cordyceps." Wow, this is cool. We've come a long way. But I've also worked with a lot of the different-- and we'll get into the psychoactive mushrooms in a second, but just on the food grade, functional or medicinal mushrooms, been using them for a long time, but also have had a wide spectrum of results using them because there's so many fugazi versions of that.

[00:33:33] So, we'll talk about that too, extraction methods, growth methods, etc. Because you can call something a Cordyceps or lion's mane and it may or may not have the potency and medicinal value that you're looking for. But let's start with what it was that actually helped your gut. Was that like turkey tail or something?

[00:33:52] Alex: Yeah, turkey tail, chaga were the ones I was using for my gut.

[00:33:56] Luke: And what form of them? We can do alcohol extraction, water extraction, depending on which mushroom, sometimes dual extraction. You're doing something even cooler now with this liposomal thing, which is probably much more cost effective for everyone because it takes less raw materials. But what form of those were you taking where you actually noticed like, holy shit, something's happening?

[00:34:18] Alex: Yeah, it's a great question because it does make a difference. I was taking a liquid tincture, dual extraction. And that's the thing that I learned in that time, working in the CBD company and the cannabis company, and then later in the mushrooms, is bioavailability is a real thing-- the ability for the body to absorb the molecule or the active ingredient in that case.

[00:34:39] And mushrooms typically, depending on the mushroom, but typically prefer to stay wet. It's that relationship with water, the mycelial network with the water relationship. They're hydrophilic, essentially, these molecules. So they like water. So to keep it wet, more effective, that's where I was first using these tinctures. Worked amazing on my gut health.

[00:35:04] In a really short amount of time, I had clarity again. And I was dialed in. And then from there I was like, "Okay, whenever we bring out this brand, we want to make sure that it's bioavailable and that they stay hydrophilic so we can get the molecules into the bloodstream really quickly." So that's the thing. Sometimes these powders and stuff like that, they're already dehydrated.

[00:35:29] They lost a lot of the essence. They're dried up. And not to say that they don't work, but you just may have to go higher on the dose. But in this case, you get the full power of the mushroom and you actually don't need to overdose, which is cool.

[00:35:47] Luke: That makes sense. I never thought about that. Mushrooms are always soggy and moist and like grow in our yard crazy certain times of the year, but it's only when there's a lot of moisture around.

[00:35:58] Alex: 100%. It's a relationship. Everything's in relationship.

[00:36:02] Luke: Yeah, I never thought about that. Okay, so you're playing around with the turkey tail extracts. What about like lion's mane and Cordyceps?

[00:36:15] Alex: Yeah, totally. So I started on the gut health stuff, the turkey tail, the chaga, then got into the lion's mane for cognitive, Cordyceps for energy. And I was becoming a new version of myself, a new human-- more awareness, more clarity, more energy, sleep is better.

[00:36:33] Started taking the reishi for sleep and I was like, "Wow, this is it, man. These things have the codes." And yeah, that was the inspiration. So it was starting with those mushrooms to start off, putting them in products that can actually help modern day problems that we have-- gut health, productivity, energy, sleep, anxiety, these kind of things.

[00:36:58] All with the intention to gain trust, showing people that there's a relationship here that you can have with these mushrooms that actually help your modern-day problems, where they're here to solve a problem. And when you're ready, we introduce the legal psychedelic microdosing. That was always the intention, is to take it to the next level of awareness and consciousness.

[00:37:23] Luke: I remember the first time I met you, we were in the water out on Lake Austin at Josh's son's birthday party. And I was like, "Oh, this guy's cool. He is got long hair. Seems like real chill hippie vibe." And I forgot about this, but you were telling me about the legal microdose, and at that time you were in the R&D phase of figuring out how to get higher bioavailability to actually get it in your bloodstream, thus into your cells so that it does something other than just cost you money. And now, here we are. What was that? A couple years ago?

[00:37:58] Alex: So that was going to be, I think at least two years ago.

[00:38:03] Luke: Yeah, yeah. And here we are and it's happening. When it comes to the chaga, reishi, lion's mane, all the ones that we mentioned, how did you suss out getting the highest potency, cleanest raw material to work with?

[00:38:21] Alex: Yeah, that's the cool thing about being in the mushroom space versus the cannabis space. Cannabis space got pretty cutthroat and a lot of lawyers and greedy people that really had no business being in the space took it over. But in the mushroom space, it's a lot more cooperative. People are on the mushroom, so they're just--

[00:38:40] Luke: Higher consciousness.

[00:38:41] Alex: Higher consciousness. They want to help each other out. They want to bring mushrooms to the world. Everybody I meet in the space pretty much has that vibe, that energy. There's a few bad actors here and there, but for the most part it's people that are more tapped in. The consciousness is higher. They want to bring these mushrooms out.

[00:38:59] And usually, what ends up happening is you start working with the mushrooms, and the mushrooms actually start guiding you and working through you. So it's way more symbiotic like mushrooms are. So I got to just meet some really cool people and referred to some really cool people.

[00:39:14] There's a wonderful lady named Jamie out of Utah that we get our mushrooms off of. There's another guy out of California that I won't mention his name, but he has the best of the best and the other product that we're super excited about. But it's been an awesome experience.

[00:39:29] And again, all about relationships and asking the tough questions and figuring out what their processes are and growing methods and all this kind of stuff. But people in this space, it's refreshing. They're pretty cool.

[00:39:45] Luke: What's the difference between fruiting bodies and the-- what is it?

[00:39:50] Alex: Mycelium.

[00:39:51] Luke: Mycelium, yeah. I've heard that a lot of these mushroom companies that sell the powders are growing them on rice or a substrate.

[00:39:58] Alex: Hold some stuff. Yeah.

[00:39:59] Luke: Yeah. And then you buy it by the weight and you just end up getting an inferior product because it doesn't have the punch that the fruiting bodies have. But I've never looked that deeply into it. I just know people that I trust and seem to be very knowledgeable about the mushroom space are always ragging on the mycelium and boosting the fruiting bodies. Is that something you've run into? Is there some truth to that, or in some cases, is there a benefit to having the entourage effect of having both?

[00:40:31] Alex: Yeah, I think it's that. In my experience, and for the most part, you can't really go wrong with the fruiting body. There's more moisture in the fruiting body and it's more of the plant or the mushroom's full essence. And Paul Stamets, the OG mushroom man, he's a big fan of the mycelium and saying lion's mane is just best in it's mycelium form.

[00:40:53] So we do both. We do the mycelium. We do the fruiting body. We make it bioavailable so it's getting uploaded into the human body. Technology's uploaded quickly, so you feel the state change. You build a relationship. You see that, wow, this is really working in real time. You're not really wondering, is this working or not?

[00:41:15] Everything we come out with has to have a validation experience. Like, I was feeling this way. I take it. Now I'm feeling this way. And it's like now you're building that relationship. For me, it's really all about relationships, Luke, in every aspect of life, every aspect of nature. And so yeah, we believe mycelium and the fruiting body, some mushrooms are obviously better for the fruiting body and some is good for the mycelium. But yeah, you can't really go wrong with the fruiting body.

[00:41:43] Luke: Have you looked into the reishi spores? Is there anything to that?

[00:41:47] Alex: In what sense?

[00:41:48] Luke: There have been companies over the years that sell reishi spore products, usually in an oil or something like that, but they're just crazy expensive, super, super expensive. So when something's way more expensive than the competing product, we tend to think it must be better. But I've not looked that deeply into it.

[00:42:10] Luke: The idea there I think is like, rather than the fruiting body of the reishi or the-- do they have mycelium because they're a tree mushroom? So I guess there's mycelium growing into the tree. I think the idea there is that's their life force and vitality because it's the sperm of the mushroom, for lack of a better way to say it. Doesn't sound very appetizing. Mushroom sperm.

[00:42:33] Alex: Yeah.

[00:42:34] Luke: But I always was intrigued by that. But then again, if you're someone who doesn't want to waste your money, you have to do some deep research on this stuff to figure out what's marketing jargon and what is actual science. So the spores aren't something you've looked into personally?

[00:42:55] Alex: Not personally. I've heard great things about spores, but I've never actually dove deep into the mushroom sperm.

[00:43:01] Luke: Got it. You're probably better off of that. Okay, so we've got the category of medicinal or functional mushrooms, like non-psychoactive, although lion's mane, as you said, has been proven to have massive cognitive benefits, but you're not going to feel it in the sense that you would a microdose or something.

[00:43:22] Why did you elect to go for the Amanita muscaria mushroom? Which is totally legal and much safer in the sense that you're not going to start hallucinating on it. Why did you go that route rather than trying to sort of wait for legislation to ease up? And many people in the psilocybin space are thinking they're getting ahead of the curve, much like in the cannabis space back in the day.

[00:43:53] So they're going underground and starting to create products that are a little more gray area in hopes that legislation will evolve and they'll already have a foothold in the industry. But you went a different direction where like, cool, I'm leaving that alone, going full legality with the Amanita. So tell me about that decision process.

[00:44:14] Alex: Yeah. Everything I do is legal. And I wanted to be able to carve out a path using all legal methods, not having to watch my back or anything like that. And all respect for the mushroom cowboys out there that are doing their thing. All respect.

[00:44:34] There's no love loss there, but I'm very forward facing. And this was really to be able to pave a way and show people that there's other psychedelic mushrooms that are legal and we could study them. We could research them. We could bring out the data on them. We could advertise about it.

[00:44:52] We could pay taxes on it. We can just show that this thing is very front page. It's not something to be hiding in the shadows about. That's not where I'm at in my life. I'm not here to hide in the shadows, or get lost in the crowd. It's like, no, these mushrooms are amazing. They've been around for millions of years, and there's a mushroom that's incredibly powerful in its nature, and it's psychedelic.

[00:45:18] It's non hallucinogenic. It can have amazing benefits on the human body and the human mind. And we're going to use this mushroom as an example and really study it and really gain trust around it so that we can pave the way for psilocybin to become legal.

[00:45:35] I love psilocybin. I'm microdosing psilocybin right now, and so I'm a big fan. And I'm going to be a steward for that as well. But yeah, this mushroom really found me. I was in a sound bath ceremony in Florida and I started getting images of that iconic red and white-capped mushroom in my psyche. And I was like, "Wow, that's really interesting."

[00:46:01] It was communicating with me, had a really clear signal. I went and started doing some research and I was like, "Wow, this mushroom is actually legal. Go figure." So that was in November of 2022 when I had the idea and I was like, "Man, I'm going to bring this to market. This is a great idea. It's legal."

[00:46:22] And the mushroom had other plans. It was like, "No, you're not ready yet to bring this to market." And so even when I saw you in Lake Austin, I was still working on it, R&D. That's almost two years ago. The mushroom really made me develop a relationship with it first.

[00:46:41] So it wasn't like, yeah, you're not just going to bring this to market and make a bunch of money. It's like you're going to get to know what really the essence of this mushroom is. And in that, it got me to do a lot of work on myself. It got me to make a lot of changes in my life, how I eat, how I show up in the world, how I treat people, many things, sex life, all kinds of stuff.

[00:47:04] It really put me through the ringer, put me through this emotional American gladiator situation. So it was wild and it was amazing. And it was so cool that by the time I had really done the work using this mushroom, every dose you can imagine, from micro to superhero dose, by the time I was really dialed in, the mushroom was like, okay. And then literally like a week later, it went on to the market.

[00:47:34] Luke: So this Amanita muscaria, about which I've done one prior episode, and we'll put that in the show notes, which by the way, the show notes today are lukestorey.com/wolfe, W-O-L-F-E. lukestorey.com/wolfe. And we'll put a link to the Eons products there as well. Got a code, LUKE20. We'll put all that in the clickable show description on the podcast apps.

[00:47:59] But I did this episode on Amanita, and then of course, immediately I got to get some, got some, started making tea with it and experimenting with it, thinking that it was going to be much more closely related to psilocybin. It's not, in many ways, as you know, and you can unpack for us.

[00:48:20] But the first thing was that the amount of material in a microdose of Amanita versus psilocybin, psilocybin we're talking about one to 200 milligrams. 1,000 milligrams being a gram. That would be the threshold where you start to not be able to operate in your normal way.

[00:48:46] And then if people journey with psilocybin, maybe three and a half, five grams, or something like that. Some people more, but three and a half grams to any size body, you're going to be in a totally different place.

[00:48:55] Alex: Yeah.

[00:48:56] Luke: Amanita, I started making the tea and I start out at three grams in the tea for a microdose, and I'm like, "Oh, I feel relaxed and pretty happy. Definitely noticeable in the sense that I just feel real chill, but definitely not high or anything like that. So I progressively started playing around with it, especially for sleep because of its effect on REM, which maybe you can tell us more about too.

[00:49:22] And then I noticed, yeah, I slept pretty good. I got a pretty good REM score. Then at one point on two different occasions, I put quite a lot in there just to push the envelope and had very challenging experiences. Just way too much night sweats, just weird dreams. Just not a fun ride.

[00:49:44] And I was like, "Okay, thank you for teaching me." I bow to the Amanita. I got a little too aggressive there, and it showed me what that felt like. And then I got scared off because I'm like, "I don't know." What's the right dose if I want to take some during the day and still be functional, etc.?

[00:50:01] Alex: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:01] Luke: So I backed off from the raw materials. And then when you finally brought your-- what's it called? Dialed in?

[00:50:08] Alex: Dialed.

[00:50:09] Luke: Dialed. Do I have one up here?

[00:50:09] Alex: Yeah, it's this one here.

[00:50:10] Luke: Okay. This guy right here. For those watching this, it's in its box still. But you're like, "Yeah, dude. We nailed it." I don't know if you remember this, but I was like, "I don't want to feel it, feel it." So is there any risk of taking too much. And I forget what you said, but you're like, "You could basically take the whole jar and you're going to be fine." But I want to give you props because I really believe in the wisdom of this particular mushroom, but even though it's legal, it's very hard to work with in terms of preparation and dosing. It's weird. It's sketchy. It's hard to standardize.

[00:50:52] Alex: Yeah.

[00:50:53] Luke: And so when you brought me the first test batch of your sublingual tablets, I'm like, "This guy fucking cracked the code, dude." And I'm trying not to exaggerate on this show just when I get excited, but there is nothing that I've ever found that eliminates anxiety as fast as that product.

[00:51:20] You can be in basically a limbic system, freak out, fight or flight. Put one or two of those in your mouth, chew them up, hold them under your tongue for two minutes, and you're noticeably calmer and you stay calm afterward. It's bizarre. It's so fucking epic.

[00:51:39] Alex: Thank you.

[00:51:39] Luke: But I've never, and I've taken probably four at a time of years, nowhere close to feeling high at all. I feel like I could take a bunch and still be totally normal, but I'd probably just be wasting it.

[00:51:51] Alex: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:52] Luke: So I guess I'm just saying, from my journey with Amanita and a lot of ups and downs and missteps along the way, and eventually just feeling like, I don't know, I really don't understand how to work with this particular energy, now I do because you figured it out.

[00:52:10] And for sleep too, sleep onset and REM, the things I was trying to get when I was overdosing on the raw mushrooms. So tell me a little bit about the formulation and this patented delivery system you have and any history. I think the cultural history of Amanita is really interesting. Just give me the whole Amanita download as far as your journey so far.

[00:52:33] Alex: All right, cool. Thank you for the feedback. It means a lot, especially coming from you, master biohacker.

[00:52:39] Luke: My only complaint is that you give me one jar at a time and it's gone in a couple of days. So I love them, dude. I get amped up.

[00:52:46] Alex: It's my excuse to keep seeing you.

[00:52:48] Luke: Really, I get a little too amped up sometimes with my nootropics and just work and just taking on too much and then I'm like, "Oh my God." So it's like I'm always on this rollercoaster of getting myself super optimized and then too anxious. So I've been using yours a lot to bring myself back down to earth.

[00:53:05] Alex: I appreciate that. And that's really what this product was designed for, was for anxiety. I truly believe this specific product with Dialed can disrupt the anti-anxiety medication market, which is a 18-billion-dollar a year industry in the United States alone. And yeah, there's a lot of young men and a lot of people really suffering from anxiety, just the way that society's designed.

[00:53:32] So that was really the problem that we wanted to solve. I used to have anxiety. I get it. And that overthinking, mind going too fast kind of thing, and comparison, and all this kind of stuff. So I get it. I was there, and that was the inspiration for this, is what problem do we want to solve? Anxiety.

[00:53:49] And this mushroom, the Amanita muscaria, it works extremely well on the GABA receptor, which is the receptor of the brain that regulates anxiety. It regulates your nervous system. It regulates fear. It regulates addiction, PTSD. Pretty heavy-duty stuff. And there's a lot of studies that we got into, researched them, that showed all this.

[00:54:13] And there was a book, I mentioned it earlier, a pre-podcast, by this Russian doctor called Baba Masha, who's the grandmother of Amanita Muscaria. Awesome lady, and she did a study with 8,000 people for no reason just to show the data. She's just like, "I love this mushroom. My husband and I have amazing results on it, but let's see what everybody else has to say. Let's just make it an open study and let the data speak for itself."

[00:54:38] She wasn't selling any Amanita. She didn't have any cool products or anything. It was just literally for the data. And what the data showed literally just confirmed your story on the people that would take higher doses, they wouldn't have the best experience. They'd have these kind of wonky experiences.

[00:54:56] However, in micro doses, specifically, amazing results. And people were having cure rates of cocaine addiction and alcohol addiction and cigarette addiction and psoriasis and anxiety. And all these heavy-duty things, from microdose use, they were cured.

[00:55:19] When I read that book, I was like, "Wow, there's really something here. The data just speaks for itself." And it wasn't a funded study or anything like that, she just did it on her own. So I was like, "Wow, there's really something here." And in that time, I was experimenting with different doses, and very similar to yourself, larger doses, the mushroom would smack me around and have these crazy dreams and all this kind of stuff and sweats and all this kind of stuff.

[00:55:44] Luke: What was the highest dose you did?

[00:55:46] Alex: I did 21 grams in the forest.

[00:55:49] Luke: Dude. But in a tea or something?

[00:55:52] Alex: In a tea, yeah. In a tea. In the forest, which is even more amplified. But it was really for that thing that you alerted to earlier. It is like, what happens if someone takes a whole bottle of that? And I knew I was bringing this product to market and I wanted to know what happens if someone takes this thing to an extreme. So it's like, I'll be the Guinea pig. I'll test myself out.

[00:56:14] And it definitely wasn't comfortable. It definitely wasn't enjoyable. But I got to see, yeah, there's really nothing to be afraid about if you did do a large dose. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. It's going to show you things about yourself. It's soul revealing. That's what psychedelic, the word, means. It's soul revealing.

[00:56:35] So it reveals things to you on your soul that maybe you haven't been paying attention to. So it helps develop a relationship with your soul, which is pretty rad. So yeah, all this to say, the less you use, the better it works. And yeah, some people have a lot of work to do around anxiety, myself included.

[00:56:56] It completely got me through my anxious phase, and it does so much reparation to the GABA receptor. It just keeps repairing that receptor, repairing that receptor over and over. So eventually, usually after a two-month protocol, you don't even need to use Dialed anymore, and you don't even need to use anti-anxiety medication anymore.

[00:57:19] You've repaired your relationship with it, and it's really cool. And in that process, one more thing I'll say, and then we can jump into the folklore, but it helps with your sleep incredibly well. After three weeks of use, it resets your circadian rhythm. It aligns you to the natural rhythm of the sun. You want to go to bed early. You want to get up early.

[00:57:41] You start receiving more light through your eyes, of the sun, which is a big thing. And it starts to activate these parts of yourself. So it's really, really cool. This mushroom has so much intelligence. It's very, very innately intelligent and it knows what the user is trying to work through. And it knows when you're trying to escape in it as well. So if you start overtaking it, it's going to make it uncomfortable for you, and it's going to basically tell you to back off.

[00:58:13] Luke: I can speak from experience of that being true. So for people that are just learning of this particular mushroom, what we're talking about is-- this will get us into the folklore-- is like the emoji. The red mushroom with the little white specks.

[00:58:32] When I discovered Amanita, I started seeing it freaking everywhere. It's like Christmas ornaments, the Smurfs, Mario Brothers. I'm just like, "This is so weird. It's so woven into the fabric of our culture, yet the actual mushroom itself is totally absent from our culture."

[00:58:56] And why has it persisted as this iconic representation of that kingdom when no one's using it? At least here. I don't know. Maybe in Russia or Siberia or something they are elsewhere, but definitely not here. So give us a little bit of the history and maybe why it's been dismissed in use but not in terms of its representation.

[00:59:24] Alex: Yeah. I love that you're onto that because it's so true. Everybody that's watching already knows this mushroom. It's already in your subconscious right now. You think of a mushroom, you're probably thinking of this mushroom, good chance, the iconic red and white-capped mushroom.

[00:59:39] And yeah, it's in all these amazing things in our pop culture, Super Mario Brothers, the story of Santa Claus. The red and white costume that Santa Claus is wearing is based on the mushroom.

[00:59:50] So I believe it's really the genius of this mushroom that it's made itself fully developed into our pop culture. Yet it's waited for the right time to be released into our human technology until it was ready, until we were ready to tap into its consciousness. I believe it's an alien intelligent. It's divinely connected to the earth.

[01:00:20] Most people don't know this about Amanita, Luke, but it can't be replicated in a lab. You can't be growing it in a closet like you can with psilocybin. You can't farm it. It's completely symbiotic, and it's completely seasonal. So it needs the right amount of mother nature's creations, the right amount of rain on the right amount of tree, on the right tree, the right spot, the right amount of moisture, and then this mushroom just pops up.

[01:00:49] Luke: It's so interesting because there-- I'm sure there are other plants and things like that that you can't cultivate, but it's interesting that something that has so much inherent value and utility can't really be harnessed by man and exploited. It's so interesting.

[01:01:10] So it's an interesting basis of a product line too because I'm sure supply chains are much more nuanced and difficult at times than something that anyone can just grow in their closet or pop up in a lab or a grow space and create. That's super, super weird that it's just like, "Hey, I'm here, but you got to come find me."

[01:01:34] Alex: You got to come find me. Exactly. And it's like when the student's ready, the teacher will appear. And it's really like that. You got to go find it. And exactly how you alluded to, sorting out the supply chain of this mushroom was a whole adventure in itself because you get to go through the people that have developed a relationship with this mushroom.

[01:01:57] They want to know why are you bringing this mushroom out to the world, and who are you, and what do you stand for, and what's your integrity? Because they already went and did the work to go and forge it in the woods of Siberia or northern Canada and all these kind of things. So it's been a really cool adventure.

[01:02:16] But yeah, it's completely symbiotic. It can't be replicated, which is part of its magic. And when you go into the history of this mushroom, it's truly a magic mushroom. Not in the hallucinogenic trip out with your buddies type of magic, but magic in its essence. Siberian shamans used to use this mushroom to really tap in with the divine, using the tea. Vikings used to use this mushroom before battle, and they would call it berserker mode because it would slow down their perception of time.

[01:02:51] And that's really what it does, is it shifts you out of the condition mind, left brain, where time is the construct, and it creates space in between your thoughts. And in the space is where the creator is waiting for you to tap into them. So it's literally giving you access to the creator, to the creative mind, to the right side of the brain.

[01:03:14] And in that, there's a lot of possibilities. You become more creative. You become more like the creator. And that's what the Vikings were tapping into, is like, wow, they could slow down time. They would see their enemies moving in slow motion, and they would dominate. And that's how they were able to take over, was using that mushroom.

[01:03:31] So it's pretty cool in that sense. There's Irish mysticism around this where they would see a goddess with red hair and very pale skin coming out in certain seasons. And then the ground would be covered with these Amanitas. And it's also in Hinduism with the soma, the ancient elixir that the Hindu mystics would drink.

[01:04:02] They don't say it for sure, but they give it another name that's very close to Amanita. And it even goes back to early-stage Christianity. There's so many different parts of our history, parts of our culture in these, but they all have one thing in common, and it's a divine connection to spirit, to nature.

[01:04:26] So there's definitely something there about this mushroom. And the really, really cool thing and the last thing I'll say is you actually only need a microdose for it to work amazingly well. So it's really the perfect introduction for someone that wants to get into psychedelics without tripping out, without losing your mind or anything like that. It doesn't take up a big amount of space in your day, but it'll calm you down and it'll start to reveal things to you about yourself.

[01:05:01] Luke: Tell me about the delivery system, because I think this is one of the main issues with any natural supplement, even pharmaceuticals for that matter, is the amount you actually assimilate and get into your bloodstream, into your cells, that will take effect versus how much you take.

[01:05:25] I know CBD, they say you only absorb small fraction of it-- melatonin. If you take oral melatonin, it's a very small percentage. So a lot of us, especially me, probably more so than your average person, spend all this money on supplements and even high-quality food for that matter, and it's like, okay, how much are you-- you buy something for $25, $60, whatever it is, and you take it consistently. How much of it are you actually using versus just expensive poop and pee?

[01:05:57] And I think that was something that I really noticed when we had that first meeting. Because I know about liposomal. Quicksilver Scientific makes these liquid liposomal. I've interviewed Dr. Chris Shade and he showed me, your cell's this big and this molecule of whatever it is you're trying to take is bigger than your cell. It can't get in. And so you have these little kind of bubbles of fat that will go through the cell wall because the cell wall likes fat to get in there, etc.

[01:06:27] So the liposomal thing is fairly well known and they use it in the pharmaceutical industry, but the way you explained it was a bit different to the point that you have patents on this particular delivery system and it's not liquid like most liposomal are. So tell us about that particular part of it.

[01:06:45] Alex: Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. It's something that I'm really proud about that we have. Because being around the health and wellness space and the CBD space, you learn that. You learn that it's not the active ingredient that you're taking per se is, but how much your body can actually absorb.

[01:07:04] It's all about absorbability. Just like anything really in life. You can give someone the information, but how you deliver the information will determine how it's received. And it's the same thing in this. You have something. You have an active ingredient, and every active ingredient has a different rate of bioavailability.

[01:07:25] The body absorbs things differently. I'm going to oversimplify it here, but on its relationship with water, we're water beings. So some molecules, some active ingredients are hydrophobic, meaning when they interact with water, they get really big, like CBD. Take CBD, it hits your saliva. it blows up like a donut.

[01:07:50] And exactly like you said, Luke, your cell is small. CBD's big. You're not absorbing. It goes through your system. You pee it out. And it's like this for many. And some they get smaller. They get so small. Now it's going through the cell, hydrophilic. So it was really about finding, okay, we have these active ingredients, these mushrooms that are amazing. How do we make them get absorbed into the body better than anybody else?

[01:08:17] Because that's the name of the game here. We've already seen the old supplement game where it's expensive pee and poo, like you said. We don't want to play that game. It's not what this is about. This is about giving the user a validation experience so they can actually make changes in their life and make more optimal decisions.

[01:08:33] So that's where we got these patents. We found 14 patents on bioavailability using a desiccated liposomal technology. So meaning we're able to put them in liposomes, where depending on the active ingredient, we could keep it wet or we could keep it dry in whatever format that we need to put it in so that it's absorbed through the mucosal, right into the bloodstream, breaking the blood-brain barrier in about a minute.

[01:09:01] So that's why you're feeling the effects of Dialed right away. You're feeling anxious? Take Dialed. A minute later, wow. Wave of calmness. There's no question. It's not like, well, when is this going to hit, or should I take more? It's like everything that we do with Eons has to have a validation experience. And the way to do that is with bioavailability, and it really gives more value back to the consumer, back to the user, is like, wow, I'm paying for this now I actually get to experience it.

[01:09:32] Luke: Yeah. The only other way to really do that is if you smoke something.

[01:09:36] Alex: Yeah. Right to the bloodstream. Yeah.

[01:09:38] Luke: Yeah. If you smoke a CBD dooby, it's going to hit you way harder than if you had like half a bottle of the liquid.

[01:09:46] Alex: For sure, because right into your bloodstream, the oxygen. Exactly. But smoking has negative effects as well.

[01:09:53] Luke: Yeah, it does. You just reminded me though. For a while, I was smoking Amanita.

[01:09:57] Alex: Oh wow. Yeah. I've heard people doing that.

[01:09:59] Luke: It tastes pretty funky, but you get a little effect from it. But it's just like, I don't know.

[01:10:04] Alex: Something to do.

[01:10:04] Luke: It's dirty and smelly. And I don't know, it's not practical for most people. Even me, I liked it, but I was just like, "Ah, it's a hassle." So with the delivery system that you guys created, is that also in your sleep product and the functional mushroom gummies and stuff? Or is it exclusive to the Dialed Amanita product?

[01:10:30] Alex: So the first product that we came out with the technology is the deeper sleep.

[01:10:37] Luke: I keep those in my nightstand. I don't always remember to take them before I go to bed, but what I do and also with the dial product, if I wake up in the middle of the night because it's a full moon or something weird and I just wake up totally hyper, I'll do a combo of those and just hold it under my tongue for a couple minutes, and it fucking makes you go back to sleep.

[01:10:56] Alex: For sure.

[01:10:56] Luke: It's crazy.

[01:10:57] Alex: It's an amazing--

[01:10:58] Luke: Nothing does that. You can take some GABA or something and it's like, good luck. It just doesn't have the same instant effect.

[01:11:05] Alex: Yeah. That's the way we designed it. It was literally for, if you want to fall asleep quickly and get back into deep sleep quickly, that's what the Quicksome technology is for. It goes right into your bloodstream.

[01:11:16] Luke: So that's in the sleep one too.

[01:11:17] Alex: That's in the Deeper Sleep and the Dialed.

[01:11:19] Luke: Got it. Okay.

[01:11:20] Alex: When we were rolling out the brand, the technology wasn't fully developed yet. Americans love gummies, and it was a very friendly way to introduce the brand. It's a stacked formula, so if you want to just pass out, take the gummies. You're going to pass out.

[01:11:37] But I will say is, you're going to feel a little bit of grogginess in the morning because you're really overdosing on all this stuff. But some people just need to fall asleep and they're going to do that. The Deeper Sleep was designed to, exactly like you said, you wake up in the middle of the night, you want to fall back asleep quickly.

[01:11:56] It's right into your bloodstream within a minute. It's a microdose of melatonin. For the people that don't like melatonin, it's still got the reishi mushroom in there. Or if you're going to bed and you just want to fall asleep quickly, that's what it's for. Yeah.

[01:12:09] Luke: Tell me about the gummies. Because I think on the bottle it says like, take two, but they're like candy. They're too good.

[01:12:18] Alex: I know.

[01:12:19] Luke: You gave me the first jar. I thought it was gone in three days. So if it's out, I'll walk by and just eat five and I'm like, "I know I'm wasting these." Because you don't need to take that many. But tell me what's in the gummies, and can you make them taste shittier so I can actually make them last longer?

[01:12:35] Alex: No, I definitely won't be making them taste shittier for sure. It's part of our thing with Eons. Everything has to taste good. Everything has to work. And the reason for that is to get people to build a relationship with the mushrooms. And if it doesn't taste good-- mushrooms, a lot of people think they don't taste good, so it's like, okay, we got to make them taste good.

[01:12:53] And we just came out with a really stacked formula. It's everything you could think in there that works synergistically together. So it's got the reishi mushroom. It's got the passion flour. It's got the lavender. It's got the magnesium. It's got the melatonin. So it really just covers all your bases for the people that really need to sleep.

[01:13:13] And it was our way to introduce the brand to people that were apprehensive about mushrooms and be like, yeah, no, this isn't going to trip you out. It will put you to sleep, and you'll have some lucid type dreams from the reishi mushroom, which helps your REM sleep. But yeah, they taste awesome and people love them.

[01:13:31] Luke: What about the smart gummies? What's in those?

[01:13:33] Alex: The Calm + Focus Gummies?

[01:13:35] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[01:13:36] Alex: The Calm + Focus Gummies, it's lion's mane, 5-HTP, ashwagandha. They were really designed when we were getting ready for Dialed. It was like the pre-Dialed. Just calm you down, focus you down. They're good for integrating. If you have a big journey or something like that and your 5-HTP levels are depleted, it brings you back. It regulates you. It was a more of a novel product, a common focus, but it was another way to introduce the brand to the community.

[01:14:08] Luke: All right. And then what about the coffee? Which I had two jars of I didn't realize, but when you were coming over, I was like, "Oh, make sure you're being product." Because that's how I get free products.

[01:14:19] Alex: Yeah, yeah.

[01:14:20] Luke: But then I actually had a jar of the coffee, and I think I haven't used it as much just because it's in a glass jar and when I would use instant coffee more like if I'm traveling or something and I don't want to have shitty Starbucks or something, I would put it in a bag so that I don't weigh my suitcase down.

[01:14:40] But it reminded me that you also threw in chaga, cordyceps, and lion's mane, l-theanine, holy basil, all these calming mushrooms and herbs with the coffee. So I'm going to remind myself to really do a dedicated experiment with this now, even when I'm home. Because I think originally I was like, "Oh, yeah, when I travel." And then I just didn't end up taking it with me.

[01:15:06] But give me the lowdown on the mushroom coffee. And if you could speak to what your take on is with the mold in coffee. When Dave Asprey came out with Bulletproof years ago, he got everyone all freaked out about the mold. And I think there's some truth to that, but is it as bad as we've been led to believe, and did you address that issue when you created a coffee product?

[01:15:32] Alex: It's a great question. I'm glad you brought that up, and yeah, we did. It was something I was really passionate about, was developing a superior mushroom coffee. I was a pilot, like we talked about for many, many years, and coffee for a pilot, it's your fuel. It's what you go to.

[01:15:50] And I got to experience what regular coffee did to my body and to my brain and all this kind of stuff. I was like, "Man, there's got to be a better way to drink coffee." And that was really the inspiration for Eons Mushroom Coffee. So we loaded up with mushrooms. We loaded up with all these calming herbs like the l-theanine and the Rhodiola and holy basil and all this kind of stuff to counter effect the negative effects of caffeine when you get too anxious or too jittery, overstimulated.

[01:16:21] So it gets you to focus, gives you that energy. You're alert, but you're not jittery. And that was something that we just wanted to provide to people. Not take away their coffee, because there's other mushroom products out there that is completely off coffee. But I love coffee, and a lot of Americans love coffee. It's still our bestseller to date.

[01:16:43] Luke: Is it really?

[01:16:444] Alex: Yeah, people love it.

[01:16:45] Luke: I'm going to have some when we're done recording.

[01:16:47] Alex: People freaking love the coffee.

[01:16:49] Luke: That's good. That's your top product. That's funny because that's the one I was like, "Oh, I've had it a couple times." I just put it in my drawer. I didn't integrate it into my life like I did Dialed and some of your other stuff where it's just an everyday experience.

[01:17:02] Alex: Yeah, it's pretty wild. But it's just because I think when people love coffee and then you try this, they're like, "This is just a way better coffee experience." And you could have one cup and you're sailing all day. You don't need the second cup or the third cup, which really dehydrates you and leads to all, and then you're over caffeinated and it just leads to all these other issues. So it's like, yeah, we want it to perfect the coffee experience. One cup, you're focused, you're alert, your energy, and you're calm. It's really cool.

[01:17:33] Luke: What about the mold issue?

[01:17:35] Alex: Yeah, thank you. The mold issue. So it's triple tested for mold. That was something we realized that's actually usually a big factor in why people get anxiety or jitters from coffee as they're detoxing mold. Here in the United States, they have the lowest standards for mold and coffee.

[01:17:51] So basically, the rest of the world sends their coffee to the United States because they can't sell it in their countries because it has mold in it. So they sell it here to United States.

[01:17:58] Luke: Oh, damn.

[01:17:59] Alex: Yeah. And I think it's about 50% of coffee here in the United States actually would test positive for mold is what they say on Google. So yeah, it's a whole thing.

[01:18:09] Luke: Let's talk about the future ideas. You were talking about on-ramping with Amanita being legal and safe. And then at some point if regulations ease up around psilocybin, maybe doing something with that, what about the variations of LSD?

[01:18:29] Is that something that's in a realistic pipeline? Because I love to microdose LSD, but it's super illegal, so I only do it when I'm out of the United States. No, I'm just kidding. Have a bunch right there. But don't tell anyone. But that's going to freak some people out unless they've really researched it.

[01:18:48] And of course it's got to be in the proper sort of solution and concentration so that you can accurately microdose it. That's one, thank God, I've never accidentally taken too much. Really, that would be terrifying. But 100 micrograms or 200 micrograms is not discernible. It's not a noticeable state change.

[01:19:07] But probably once a week or something, I'll work with the LSD, but again, it's like most people don't know where to get it and to get it safely. And also, mine's in a tincture, like alcohol tincture. You got to be very careful. Every time I get that bottle out, I'm just like, "Okay, pay attention."

[01:19:27] Because I walk through the kitchen and just take three droppers full of some stuff. So when I get that out, I'm like, "Okay." It's like I'm holding a bomb. I'm just like, "Okay, one drop. Okay, that was one. Two." It's sketchy. Do you see a world where, whatever, LSDA or some other variation of the molecule that's not illegal but still gives you that powerful nootropic effect, is that in the realm of possibilities for you in the future?

[01:19:52] Alex: 100%. Yeah. Definitely working on something, basically that, a legal version of an LSD microdose. Everything that we come out with will always be a microdose and an effective way to deliver that microdose so that the user doesn't have to go through those experiences like you and I probably have with overdosing on a tincture bottle or something like that.

[01:20:19] And that's one of the key things about this Quicksome technology, is it's a precise dose. We know exactly we put this amount of active ingredient in there and it enters the bloodstream in about a minute. Precisely, quickly. So you have that state change. And then you're not like waiting 45 minutes for it to kick in because it's going through your GI and your liver has to process it.

[01:20:42] Our livers had to process so many things over the years. So yeah, long way of saying, yes, a legal version of LSD, microdose LSD, and we also have a really cool product coming out that I think you'll appreciate, Luke, is more of a-- I won't say the name yet, but it's more like a social dose for people that want to let their guard down and let loose and have a little fun, maybe go dancing with their romantic companion but don't want to drink alcohol.

[01:21:11] And there we've seen this kind of thing with the kava and kratom, which is cool, but this will be a more healthier version of this social dose where you'll let loose and then you'll wake up the next morning feeling refreshed and ready to seize the day.

[01:21:27] So I'm excited for that one as well. And then through the parent company, Circadian Wellness, there'll be many of these other really cool alternative medicine. Think oral dissolve NAD, or an oral dissolve methylene blue, and these kind of stuff that we're--

[01:21:48] Luke: Oh, cool.

[01:21:49] Alex: Yeah, we're experimenting with that as well.

[01:21:51] Luke: Because you have that Quicksome technology, so essentially you could wrap any molecule that you want into that.

[01:21:57] Alex: Correct. Yeah, we've tested on 175 different molecules, which is super exciting. Nicotine as well, another one. I do enjoy nicotine, and it's all about the dosage for me. It's all about the precise dose. And I really believe that this Quicksome technology is like the king of liposomal.

[01:22:18] And that's what we're going to showcase, and we're going to do our best to revolutionize the supplement space. It's a gigantic space. I know that's a bold term, but it's all about the user experience. It's all about the delivery, and it's all about that validation experience.

[01:22:32] So that's what we're going to do with all these amazing, really cool supplements that are out there, but create a better user experience. So I'm super excited for all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

[01:22:44] Luke: Awesome. For people that want to check out Eons, we'll put that in the show notes at lukestory.com/wolf, but you can also go to lukestory.com/eons and use that code, LUKE20 for 20% off. And as I said, I highly recommend giving it a shot. I think if somebody's going to start with one thing, the Dialed, that's the move, especially if you have anxiety or sleep problems.

[01:23:08] Alex: Yeah.

[01:23:10] Luke: People are going to shit because, I don't know, a lot of stuff doesn't work. Or it might work, but you don't notice it. Maybe your health improves over time. You're taking a quality supplement. And I have great people on the show all the time that make really unique products, and I wouldn't talk to them and I wouldn't use their stuff if they didn't work and there wasn't some data to support the fact that they work.

[01:23:29] But it's even more fun when you go, "Oh yeah, actually I just feel different now." That's fucking cool. This is in my notes Jarrod put in here, and I have no idea why, but I would be remiss if I didn't bring it up. What do we need to know about ivermectin?

[01:23:45] Alex: Oh, I love it. I love that he brought that up.

[01:23:46] Luke: Yeah.

[01:23:47] Alex: Dude, that's rad. That's what I was going to share with you post-podcast, but happy to get into it a bit now. That's another really exciting avenue that we're working on.

[01:23:58] Luke: Oh, really?

[01:23:58] Alex: Yeah. Even more than working on. It's happening. It's really, really cool. You'll be very pumped about this, I think, anyway. Yeah, so we have four patents, international exclusive. Only people in the world with solubilized injectable ivermectin. So what does that mean?

[01:24:25] Ivermectin is a Nobel Peace prize winning drug. It's already been well established and shown to be an amazing anti-parasitic, and now it's becoming more and more known for curing cancer, which is pretty wild to say. But do some research and you'll see that cancer is most likely parasitic, and this thing can actually really help with that. Mel Gibson talked about that on the Joe Rogan podcast.

[01:24:52] Luke: Yeah, I heard that.

[01:24:53] Alex: And there's a lot of people, some really interesting Telegram groups that I'd recommend. But anyway, this drug has been proven. It's nothing that I need to prove. But the thing with ivermectin is when you take it, when you have these parasites or illnesses and this kind of stuff, disease in the body, right now you take it and it goes through the digestive track and it destroys your gut biome. It's like a carpet bomb and it really just goes in there and kills everything.

[01:25:23] Luke: Oh really? I didn't know that. Like an antibiotic.

[01:25:26] Alex: Yeah, it does. And that's the issue with ivermectin, is like, yeah, you're going to kill all the parasites, but you're going to really mess up your gut biome, and your liver has to process it too, which it's pretty hard on the liver. And I'm getting more and more into liver health as I study all these supplements and it's like, wow, it's a real thing what we put our liver through with all these supplements.

[01:25:45] So the patented injectable ivermectin makes it 2,500 times more bioavailable. So I could use a fraction of the ivermectin right into the bloodstream and destroy all the parasites, potentially even the cancer. And I see this as a gigantic way to make impact in the world and big opportunity for the company as well to really help a lot of people. So it's something I'm really excited about.

[01:26:17] Luke: Interesting. I've seen some things on X lately about some states deregulating ivermectin and making it over the counter, I think as a backlash to its suppression during the pandemic, where even if you had a prescription, your pharmacy wouldn't fill it because they wanted to kill everyone.

[01:26:42] Alex: Yeah.

[01:26:43] Luke: So now we're learning the truth about ivermectin and people are fighting against the archaic regulation. But are you foreseeing that the over-the-counter availability will come to fruition where you'll be able to just sell it directly without having to have people have a prescription?

[01:27:03] Alex: Yeah, I do see that happening. I'm pretty sure our boy RFK even mentioned this in the last few days, where he is like, "I'm going to make ivermectin over the counter, which is awesome. That's great. And our company will have the rights for the best version to deliver that ivermectin, which I think is awesome. And yeah, I'm super stoked about this opportunity.

[01:27:27] Luke: Awesome. I am too, because I think in the beginning of 2020 or something, I ordered a bunch of it because I had a feeling that they were going to try to stop it. And I got on some like Alibaba, Indian website. I don't even know if it's real. It's super sketch.

[01:27:45] I think we just actually took the last one. Alyson was feeling a little funky, so she took it for a few days and I'm like, "I literally don't even know if they're real." And they're in those medical capsules that are blue and green and they're super hard, like some toxic ass gelatin and red number five or whatever. It's not a vibe.

[01:28:04] You get clean ivermectin at Alive and Well, if you have a prescription. You get compound pharmacy version of it that doesn't have excipients and a weird shell around it and all that. But it's still hard to come by if feel like you need it.

[01:28:17] Alex: Yeah, it is.

[01:28:19] Luke: That's exciting. So will your version be only injectable?

[01:28:23] Alex: They'll also have probably the Quicksome version as well, but the injectable one makes it 2,500 times more bioavailable, which it's a lot.

[01:28:32] Luke: And would you do it subcutaneously, or do you have to do it intramuscular?

[01:28:37] Alex: It'd be like an insulin needle, I'm pretty sure.

[01:28:39] Luke: Oh, okay. Cool.

[01:28:40] Alex: Yeah, it's water solubilized, which is really cool. Makes it very bioavailable and very effective. And we've already done all the stability testing on all this and everything. It's ready to roll out, so it's a big deal.

[01:28:52] Luke: That's cool, man.

[01:28:54] Alex: Yeah, it's really, really cool. And I'm really excited about that, especially in our-- I was going to talk about that in our round table next week, but you'll have the sneak preview about that.

[01:29:05] Luke: Okay, epic, epic. Yeah. As a general rule, I avoid pharmaceuticals as much as possible because they're just so suspect. But sometimes, every couple of years I'll get a really bad flu or something and I try to cure it with my herbs and shit. And after a few days I'm just like, "All right, I give up. I need the big guns."

[01:29:24] So I think something like ivermectin, it's a good first aid kit item to have if you haven't been able to do it with lifestyle and supplementation. Sometimes you need a bigger hit. The fact is too, just walk outside and breathe the air.

[01:29:41] We're already getting pharmaceuticals against our will, whether we want it or not. So I think sometimes our defensive strategies need to be a bit more aggressive just to keep up with all of the insults coming our way every day through our food, water, air, EMF, and everything that we're up against.

[01:30:00] Alex: Yeah. Well said. I agree. I think there's so much noise out there, and it's really staying attuned to nature signal that will always bring you back. And sometimes people are just so far off that signal and they got the parasites or they got the cancer and all that kind of stuff, and they deserve a real thing that can help save them.

[01:30:24] Luke: I got a message from a mutual friend of ours yesterday who's like, "Dude, how do you do the stool testing? What's the parasite medicine? I've been sick in bed for three days." I was like, "There you go." And this is a guy that lives a really healthy lifestyle, super committed. And it's like, dude, even if you're doing everything right, there's sometimes situations in which you just get hammered and all your natural shit is not going to do it.

[01:30:49] There's this whole group of people that subscribe to-- like Jack Kruse or something. Actually, Jack Kruse likes ivermectin, turns out, for certain things. But someone like Jack's, it's light, water, magnetism. You got to get in the sun and drink your spring water and whatever.

[01:31:08] It's like I've been doing all that shit for 20 years and still sometimes I get sick or I have an issue, like freaking tinnitus or swollen prostate, whatever. And it's just like, even if you're super, super committed, sometimes the body just goes, F you. We're out of balance, and you got to get strategic.

[01:31:28] I don't think just eating raw liver and taking an ice bath and getting in the sun every day is going to work for everyone because from the time we're born and probably our parents and maybe even our grandparents have been getting poisoned 24/7.

[01:31:40] Alex: Yeah. Heavy metals.

[01:31:41] Luke: Yeah. So it's like the ancestral living's probably a good solution 200 years ago and would probably work for almost everyone. But now I think we've crossed a certain threshold where it's not going to be enough to bring many of us back to optimal health.

[01:31:59] Alex: Yeah. I agree, man. Yeah.

[01:32:01] Luke: So thank you for going there, the extra mile.

[01:32:05] Alex: Yeah. Heck yeah.

[01:32:06] Luke: That's going to be cool. I'm going to definitely stock up on some of that for when the shit hits of the fan days.

[01:32:11] Alex: Yeah, we got you.

[01:32:12] Luke: All right. Last question is, who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and made you who you are?

[01:32:19] Alex: Oh, wow. I love that.

[01:32:20] Luke: It can be anything or anyone.

[01:32:24] Alex: In the last few years, the more that I developed my relationship with the mushrooms really developed a relationship with Yeshua, man, Jesus, J.C. It's been awesome. The closer I got to the mushrooms, the closer I developed this relationship with Yeshua, and it's been awesome.

[01:32:41] And I've just been, yeah, hungry and thirsty for anything and everything this guy says. And everything he says, I resonate with. Been a huge teacher in my life. Not necessarily the whole Christian New Testament thing. I've had my own experience with that as well. I don't have to get into, but Yeshua as the guy, the reincarnate or whatever you want to call him, everything this guy says just resonates with me.

[01:33:11] So him for sure. Alan Watts played a big factor in my life growing up, just the philosophical and really getting me to look at things in different perspectives. And I even love the fact that he was an alcoholic and he just owned it and he was just--

[01:33:28] Luke: Oh, he was. I didn't know that.

[01:33:29] Alex: Yeah. He died from alcoholism, and he was an alcoholic.

[01:33:31] Luke: Really?

[01:33:32] Alex: Yeah. But he's got so much wisdom, and he just really owned the fact of just squeezing the juice out of life and still had such a brilliant mind. And yeah, I don't drink alcohol anymore, but it was just the fact that he's just such a brilliant mind and he really helped me shift my perspective.

[01:33:53] And truly the most impactful human in my life thus far was my old mentor. This guy named Spade Cooley. Super cool dude. You would love him, Luke. He was the most raddest, brilliant, spiritually enlightened, super badass dude I've ever met. Once in a lifetime human being.

[01:34:15] Luke: He has the coolest name probably ever.

[01:34:17] Alex: Yeah. And he would--

[01:34:19] Luke: If the guy who has that name is not really interesting, we got a problem.

[01:34:23] Alex: Yeah. He totally lived up to the name and beyond. He was super rad. Literally the most impactful human being I've ever met. And he really helped me lift up my consciousness and got me looking at life in a whole new way and really helped me step up in every aspect of life, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, consciously.

[01:34:48] And without him, I wouldn't be sitting here today. I would be in a totally different paradigm, totally different timeline. But thank you for bringing that up because he passed away in 2017. And just to be able to be his best friend and then his mentee for a while was such an honor, such a gift.

[01:35:10] Luke: Awesome. Last thing I want to ask you is, how many dogs do you have right now? Last time I saw you're like, "Ah,15 dogs in my house." You got this whole breeding operation that I don't think was intentional. Your dogs keep getting knocked out. Run me through that as you sit here and hold the single dog that I'm barely able to handle.

[01:35:29] Alex: Oh my god, I love it. Yeah. So right now I have eight truffle hunters in my house, these truffle hunting dogs from Italy.

[01:35:38] Luke: What's the breed called?

[01:35:39] Alex: The buzzword is truffle hunter, but it's really Lagotto Romagnolo from Italy. Very rare breed. When I got Bruce, the dad there was 500 of this breed in North America. That's insane. There was 10,000 pet tigers in North America and 500 of this dog. So it was very, very rare.

[01:36:03] And then I found another one. I got a rescue from Siberia and then they [inaudible] it. And then last year I had nine puppies when we were hanging around and they've all been adopted. But Goldie got pregnant again, so now there's four more puppies at the house. And so I have eight dogs right now.

[01:36:19] Luke: Oh my God.

[01:36:20] Alex: Yeah, it's wild.

[01:36:21] Luke: That is so funny. I literally can't imagine how you even manage that.

[01:36:27] Alex: The mushrooms really help. And something that's helped me adopt is maximum responsibility equals maximum adventure. So it's just like the more capacity to be able to respond and not freak out and just stay calm and then the dog sense that calmness and it's this really cool relationship. And I tell myself they're getting me ready for fatherhood.

[01:36:54] Luke: I bet they are.

[01:36:55] Alex: In a little bit of a way.

[01:36:56] Luke: Yeah. Eight dogs is probably equivalent to one baby in terms of the needs that they have.

[01:37:03] Alex: Yeah.

[01:37:04] Luke: If they can hunt truffles, I wonder if they can hunt amanita muscaria mushrooms.

[01:37:10] Alex: Only one way to find out.

[01:37:11] Luke: I bet they could be trained to do it.

[01:37:13] Alex: I think so.

[01:37:13] Luke: Set them loose in the forest.

[01:37:15] Alex: That'd be rad.

[01:37:16] Luke: When my dad used to hunt, well, he hunted every freaking animal alive. But when he was really into bear hunting, he had-- what do you call it? A pack. A pack of hunting dogs, some weird floppy ear hound dogs. And they would put radio collars on the dogs, and then they'd bait the bears by putting just like these-- they'd go up into the woods and they'd hang these gunny sacks of just guts and maggot-infested, rotting flesh on the trees just out throughout the woods.

[01:37:51] And they're really stinky, so bears would be attracted to them. And then they'd give it a couple days, and then they'd take the pack of hounds out there with radio collars, and then we'd follow behind on horseback with this little kind of sonar looking thing. I guess it was radar, whatever.

[01:38:08] And you'd see little blips on it to tell you where the dogs were and the dogs would be all spread out, running around trying to sniff out the bears. And then when you saw all the little dots come together and start to coalesce, then you knew if they stayed in one spot altogether, that they had treed a bear. They would chase these bears up the tree and then--

[01:38:26] Alex: Wow.

[01:38:26] Luke: I thought it was really brutal. And then they'd go shoot the bear out of the tree, which I never liked that part.

[01:38:31] Alex: Yeah.

[01:38:32] Luke: I'm thinking about your dogs. You could take them out into a place in Amanita season, get the radio collars on them. Maybe too much EMF if you love the dog, but you could get them to go locate where the burst of Amanita are.

[01:38:47] Alex: I love that idea.

[01:38:49] Luke: And I know you're not in the business of being a forager yourself, but--

[01:38:52] Alex: No, it's something to have fun with one day for sure. I'm going to try that in my backyard and see. Hide them in the [Inaudible].

[01:38:55] Luke: Yeah, see if they can find them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it too. All right. I'm so glad we got the opportunity to sit down. We've had some great chats over the past couple of years, and I've always wanted to record one of them, and so goddamn it, we did it.

[01:39:08] Alex: We did it. Thank you, Luke.

[01:39:09] Luke: Thanks for coming by.

[01:39:10] Alex: I appreciate you man. Thank you.