[00:00:00] Luke: Dr. Carolyn Dean, welcome to the show. It's nice to meet you.

[00:00:03] Carolyn: It's good to meet you, Luke. Thank you for having me on.

[00:00:07] Luke: Absolutely. I'm excited to have this chat. You're one of the go to sources for not only myself, but I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands of other people on magnesium and other things that you specialized in. So being totally obsessed with magnesium for the past few years, I've always wanted to talk to you, so I'm really excited.

[00:00:27] Carolyn: Well, ask away. I love questions. I've done so much and learned so much over 50 years in this alternative medical field. I am a medical doctor, but I certainly don't want to act like one. Yeah, there's a lot of information that's stacked in my head that I'm seeing the younger people now going through what I went through 40 years ago, and they're acting like they're finding gold, whereas it's all in the literature. It's all in our experience. And I guess me being a clinician since 1979, I've stacked up a lot of knowledge.

[00:01:16] Luke: That's so cool. So you were in practice when I was nine years old.

[00:01:21] Carolyn: Yeah. Oh, God. 

[00:01:22] Luke: That's amazing. Uh, first thing I want to ask you about, though, this might be a little left field, but, uh, I'm not mistaken, you're based in Maui. Is that still the case?

[00:01:33] Carolyn: Yeah, Maui, in the very sad, sad situation we are in. Yes, I'm in Maui, and I live on the side of the island that didn't get touched, but I can tell you, Luke, every one of us has been touched in Maui. We are all one person removed from someone who's suffered. And we're all working together to help each other in spite of what the government is doing.

[00:02:04] I'll just show you this. It's a wristband that, um, my charitable foundation created. It's called Hula Maui. It means heal Maui. What I've done besides my dietary supplement company, I've been the banker for a local organic biodynamic farm. The day after the fires, my farmer packed his truck with a thousand pounds of produce and took it over to one of the survivor kitchens.

[00:02:39] And what happened after a few days is, when FEMA came along, they tried to shut down the kitchens because they didn't have licenses. They tried to stop the perishable goods from coming in because they didn't want perishable goods. The stories you hear, I guess, 50% of them are true. It's horrible.

[00:03:01] Luke: Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I think most people listening would share many of the same news sources, uh, for goings on in the world, which would, uh, exclude mainstream media. I haven't watched what we would call the real news, um, which we most of us have learned most of it's fake news by now. 

[00:03:26] But when you go to the alternative news on telegram channels and things like that, and more of the submersive underground news, it's also very prone to sensationalism too. So it's very difficult to know what's real when both sides are sensational and fear mongering. I tend to think the alternative news is going to give you more reliable accounts, especially because there are honest eyewitness accounts from people there. 

[00:03:53] But, um, regardless of, uh, the perspective you have on what's happening on Maui, it seems like there's definitely something nefarious happening with that fire that is-- and not only the way it's being dealt with, but just the origins, there's so many pieces that just seem, to my gut, and I think many other people's, uh, not right and not natural. What's your perspective being there as a member of the community? Do you think there's something underhanded going on, or is it just bad luck and bad planning?

[00:04:27] Carolyn: I think we've let people rise to the highest level of stupidity in all these government positions. We've let that happen, so that I think everything went wrong, and then people who don't let a good disaster go to waste are making the best of it. Everything went wrong, and now the vultures are swooping in.

[00:04:58] So I don't know about nefarious. From what I know, my husband's an investigative journalist, so we've been looking at the underpinnings of things for 50 years, more. And what I say is, there's too much stupidity for people to plan these things, for them to work so incredibly well as they did to kill Lahaina. 

[00:05:29] So I don't like talking about it a lot because a lot of it is conjecture and theories, but you're right. We have first-hand accounts of people having to jump into the oceans from them being turned back at the barriers, and it's only the rebels like us that went around the barriers and got away. But if you see some of the pictures, Luke, you would have people at a barrier and smoke was everywhere. So which way do you turn? 

[00:06:01] And all those things, but what I say at a certain point, because I do my morning two-hour walk along the ocean, people would say, how are you, and we'd all say, yeah, we're sad, but I right away turned it into, get the farmer to take produce over, get my charity, raising donations. We're working with Maui Strong. They've given us a grant to keep going. We had bad wind damage during the fire because there was that hurricane, and it damaged so much upcountry. And we're surviving, um, from that. So everybody's struggling, but they say the old cliché, oh, it just makes us stronger.

[00:06:52] Man, you cannot even say those words here because people have died. Um, I volunteer at one of the farm markets. We have an upcountry farm store now and one farm market down here where I live in Kihei, Wailea, and I'm seriously getting mad at people if they complain to me about, this tomato doesn't look whatever. This is too expensive.

[00:07:18] I said to one old guy, "Do you know people are dying, and you're complaining to me about a tomato?" So we're all riled up to do more, do better. I wanted to get my foundation to buy more arable land. We've only got tourism, and what did the stupid people in government do and some of the stupid Hollywood people? They said, oh, don't go to Maui.

[00:07:47] It's not the right time to go. Man, all we have here is tourism. We're all dying. At the market, tours have gone. We don't have business. So everybody, come to Maui. The airline tickets are cheaper now, so you can come in. You can have your vacation. You could come and volunteer. You can support. When I walk on the hotel walk and see the occasional tourist, I say, thank you for coming. We appreciate you coming here because you're going to support the economy, basically.

[00:08:28] Luke: Absolutely. Well, I've created some show notes, uh, that listeners can find at lukestorey.com/carolyn. If you want to provide any links to your foundation and any of the other, organizations that you know and trust that people can support, we'll put them in the show notes, and they'll be clickable on the podcast apps, and YouTube, and all that stuff, um, because I know there's some supposed fundraising going on by some of the celebrities there that looks a little dodgy. I think you're probably a more trustworthy, uh, resident there based on your reputation, where if people did feel like they wanted to support, um, you could point them in the right direction.

[00:09:07] So anything you want to send me afterward, I'll put it in the show notes for you, and, uh, yeah, sending you guys blessings. Maui was the first island that I ever traveled to, uh, in Hawaii, when I was a kid. I was just looking at some photos the other day because I visited my dad for his 80th, and, um, there were some photos of that trip. I must've been around seven or eight or something, and I just fell in love with it. And so I feel terrible that so many people have been impacted. So we'll do whatever we can to support, and I'm glad you're hanging in there and doing what you can to support them as well.

[00:09:42] Carolyn: Thank you. 

[00:09:43] Luke: So you've been in the space of practicing medicine and educating around alternative medicine and healing for a very long time. I'm curious from you, your perspective in terms of the timeline when naturopaths and root cause-based clinicians and physicians began to be demonized. These labels are thrown around. Um, vaccine denialist, quacks, conspiracy theorist. These are my favorite type of doctors to interview.

[00:10:18] Carolyn: Yeah.

[00:10:18] Luke: If someone's on the dirty dozen of the FDA or whatever it is, um, they're the first ones I want to talk to. Um, what's been your experience of that being someone who's both been in the establishment and also working in the fringe realm, which to me, is actually just real medicine, but I'm curious, over the course of your long career, what's it been like to watch the ebb and flow of these trends?

[00:10:43] Carolyn: Okay, Luke, what comes to mind when you ask that is, think about what happened to the witches. They've always been after us. The establishment, whatever they used to do, they've been after the herbalists, the midwives. It seems it's often women who put themselves out to help others, gather herbs, make a tincture, create touchstones that people could use to help with their anxiety. We've been attached forever.

[00:11:19] I went into medicine in, um, the mid-'70s when I was in my mid-20s so that, uh, people would listen to me because I'd already been reading about natural medicine. There were five health books back then. Seriously, there was not a health food store in the city where I did my medicine. That was in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

[00:11:44] When I did my internship up in Toronto at Mount Sinai, there was no naturopathic college. It had just started slowly the year before my internship. So I just jumped in right away and did my post grad naturopathy after my medicine because I was convinced that people would benefit from lifestyle, good diet, all those good things. 

[00:12:16] I was seriously convinced that within 10 years, all doctors would be practicing natural medicine, along with being able to prescribe a drug. That did not happen in any way, shape, or form. So we went down the rabbit hole of drugs. Even when I was in med school, the drug companies were providing us with our medical bags in certain lectures and whatever.

[00:12:44] And it was a completely paternalistic situation. My class, there were 100 men and women, and mine was the first class that had more than 25 women. We had 33 women in our class. And they were going to reject me because I was too old, uh, at 25, because they want to get kids straight out of two years of university at age 20 or whatever and just brainwash them, even back then.

[00:13:21] Okay. So what did I do first day of class? In comes a clinician to give us an overview of what we're going to hear through the year. His first slide on the overhead projector was a nude female. That's how we started med school. Oh, this is a male sorority. I can show nude female slides throughout the thing. I'll get a little love from the boys in the class.

[00:13:52] I was so so mad. I didn't know anyone in the class, so I stormed off to, um, a biochemistry professor who taught at the med school who was in my apartment building, and I knew, for some reason, he had slides that he made up. I went to the drugstore, I got the first issue of Playgirl with nude males, and I had him make up a set of slides.

[00:14:23] Two days later, buddy comes back in to give us his lecture, and we had taken out his nude female slides and put in male slides at the back of the room. He had no idea. So the first slide was a nude male. The guy picked up his bag and stumbled his way out the door, and we never saw him again. 

[00:14:45] That is direct action. That is not me marching, or whining, or, oh my goodness, you're being mean to us. Overnight, that college changed. They took down all the nude female pictures from the anatomy lab and the biochem lab. It changed. I guess I'm saying that's what I've done all my life. Direct action.

[00:15:14] Luke: So you were an OG rebel right from the start, right in the beginning of med school. What was the-- 

[00:15:20] Carolyn: And I'm not a big person, so people didn't see it coming.

[00:15:24] Luke: Yeah. Stealth. Uh, what do they call it? Trojan horse. I'm curious. What was the context of him showing the nude? Was it even based on anatomy, or was he just trying to be funny and slip in some soft-core pornography? I don't understand how--

[00:15:43] Carolyn: Yeah, that's how it was in medical school because it was mainly a male domain. So this is how you keep the attention of the boys in the class. He didn't realize I was there, that's for sure.

[00:15:59] Luke: That's so funny. Another thing I wanted to ask you about-- it's not that often that I talk to someone that's been in the field for as long as you have. In addition to just how medicine and, uh, practitioners of medicine have changed, and some of them that have veered off the mainstream path have been vilified, what have you seen in the realm of the supplement industry? When did you see vitamin stores and health food stores start to pop up?

[00:16:29] And I asked that because it's a multi-billion-dollar industry now. It's largely what funds this podcast and most podcasts like mine. And when I was very young, maybe five or six, my mom, I don't know, she must've had one of the five health books that you talked about in 1975, and she used to give me these big handfuls of vitamins. And I've asked her as an adult, why did you do that? And she said, I heard that you needed all this nutrition, and so I used to give you those vitamins. 

[00:16:57] So I've been taking supplements about the time you started college. But but back in the day, it was just hippie types and natural type people. And you go to these little health food stores, and there'd be those bins of oats, and granola, and things like that, and then a few supplements. And you have a supplement company now. What have you seen in the industry in terms of availability, quality, lack of quality, corporations taking over, selling snake oil. What's your take on the history of supplements as an industry and where we are now?

[00:17:35] Carolyn: Right. So when I was up in Toronto doing my internship, 1978, '79, there were two health food stores, so I got to know the people in the stores. Let's go back to Klaire Laboratories, K-L-A-I-R-E. Now, Claire was a woman who, I think, had either allergies herself or someone in the family had allergies, whatnot, so she started a food-based supplement, and everybody got behind her because it was so good. 

[00:18:12] Now, when the health food store started opening up, I noticed that they weren't all natural, that the synthetics came in. Very quickly, the drug company said, oh, this is the formula for such and such. We can make that from coal tar So that's where things quite quickly started going downhill So there's that going on, then there's some great guys like Jeffrey Bland, who's been around forever. You know the name Jeff Bland, don't you?

[00:18:45] Luke: No, I've not heard of him.

[00:18:46] Carolyn: Um, okay. Metagenics. Do you know Metagenics?

[00:18:51] Luke: Oh, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:18:53] Carolyn: So I think he was involved with the beginnings of Metagenics, but he's a PhD, maybe biologist or chemist. I'm sorry, I forget. But he started coming to our first naturopathic lectures up in Toronto. And so we started just getting the buzz. And he's one of these guys that read everything, and he would shine the white light of his knowledge into your eyes, and you were just aghast. But it was too much. It's like too much information.

[00:19:25] And I got a bit cynical about it because the supplement industry would discover new research, and it was usually animal research, and then they'd say, oh, if it's good for the mice, it's good for us, which may be true, but then the next year, you'd see a whole bunch of supplements come out based on that little bit of research. There's never really been a lot of good supplement research. 

[00:19:54] And it's all mixed up because there's some natural supplements. There's some synthetics. The whole big pharma is trying to put down supplements. Seriously, since the nondemic, when people weren't allowed to use supplements, the supplement attack articles have been rampant. You cannot read anything about supplements without finding out that they're terrible for you.

[00:20:25] Now, in some ways, they're not that great because they're synthetic. And in some ways, they're being treated like drugs, where, well, we did this study on such and such and people still died. It's not that great. And then you find out, if you take vitamin D and you don't have enough magnesium to activate the vitamin D, it's not going to work. If you're trying to work with vitamin D and you don't have enough vitamin A, it's not going to work.

[00:21:00] So all the anti-vitamin D stories now are because they're not being matched with their co-factors. My thing, which we'll get to, I'm sure, is that I found myself severely magnesium deficient when I was in Manhattan doing an AIDS and chronic fatigue study back in the early '90s, for Pete's sakes. My mother thought I was a missionary.

[00:21:31] So I was in New York, and somehow, I got on local TV. I did the view and everything. I did the view before they had direct-to-consumer advertising on TV, so once they started doing that, they couldn't have people on who were saying that supplements could help you. So anyway, what happened was Random House, um, publisher, they asked me if I'd write a book on magnesium.

[00:22:05] And I said, that's hard to write 300 pages on one mineral. But the moment I started doing research on magnesium, I realized that my own headaches, eye twitching, neck pain, heart palpitations, leg cramps, charley horse leg cramps, back pain were all related to magnesium deficiency. 

[00:22:30] So for me, it was one of those synchronistic things that got me into being a "magnesium expert." Totally selfish. And after I wrote the book and all the magnesium companies used my book to sell their products, I approached them with another problem because as soon as I started taking any form of magnesium, I would get the laxative effect. 

[00:23:00] So I was never able to saturate myself with enough magnesium. So these people who say, you take magnesium to the point you get the laxative effect, and boom, you're done. Fifty milligrams, and I was done. So I didn't believe a word of it. So again, personal experience got me to the point where I went around to all the supplement companies and said, you have to research non-laxative magnesium. That's what's keeping people from getting saturated and thinking they have other problems, disease problems, whereas really, they just have magnesium deficiency. No go.

[00:23:42] So finally, I found a chemist and made my own. And what we did was created a stabilized ion of magnesium so that it didn't bind back up quickly with the chloride part of its compound, or citrate, or anything else. It just stayed stable as a magnesium ion in a picometer size, and it just jumped into cells.

[00:24:10] People will take a picometer magnesium in their mouths and start feeling the effects because it goes directly into the cell. So we jumped over all the problems of, uh, the non-absorption of magnesium and it getting to the intestines and causing the laxative effect because it pulled water in towards itself.

[00:24:36] And for me, from not being able to take 50 milligrams, I was taking 1,200 milligrams for about a year and a half, and that got rid of all my magnesium deficiency symptoms. And now, I'll hear people talk about, oh, I have a five-magnesium compound. I have a seven-magnesium compound. And there'll be a magnesium threonate, or taurate, or orotate, or lactate, all these different forms.

[00:25:12] And it may be the threonate part that's doing some of the goodness or the taurine part, but you're not getting a full magnesium effect because, like I said, magnesium will bind back up so quickly that it's not in the ionized state long enough to be absorbed and go to work. Does that make sense?

[00:25:40] Luke: Yeah, it does. That's interesting. One of our sponsors is a company called Magnesium Breakthrough, and they have seven types of magnesium. I've been taking it for years. I love it. I haven't heard any complaints about the laxative effects so far, but I'm sure it is very individual. And one thing that I think is confusing about the magnesium, when you're talking about the saturation and how much you're absorbing, and maybe you have the answer to this, I still am not settled on a viable test. 

[00:26:10] There's different perspectives on your red blood cell test or if you're doing a hair mineral analysis test. What's the latest on someone actually determining accurately what their magnesium levels are? Because I might be taking the powdered magnesium, and my levels seem great, and I tolerate it. I don't get the laxative effect, but someone else might be taking so much to try to catch up that they are getting the laxative effect. And meanwhile, I'm sure the vast majority of the population is deficient to some degree, some more than others. So what's up with the testing that's going on right now? What do you recommend, or what do you think is accurate?

[00:26:52] Carolyn: I subscribe to the ionized magnesium test. And I know one of your interviewees, the Float Tank gentleman.

[00:27:08] Luke: Oh, yeah. Mark Scott. Yeah.

[00:27:11] Carolyn: Yeah. He uses magnesium chloride. That's the basis for my picometer magnesium. He was talking about the ionized magnesium test, and it's very true that the serum magnesium doesn't give us any answers. So, what I just pulled up, Luke, was the basic points from a study that my company did on absorption of magnesium. 

[00:27:42] So let me just tell you, it's in the journal Nutrients, 2020. It's Volume 12, page 1245. You can take it out and read it. And the title is Circulating Ionized Magnesium as a Measure of Supplement Bioavailability: Results from a Pilot Study for Randomized Clinical Trial. So we did a human study. And this is the problem with the supplement companies. We're not doing enough research.

[00:28:26] We're just selling the supplements and saying, yeah, it's helping people, but we're left with these big gaping holes of who is deficient and who's not. So anyway, in 2020, maybe it was 2019, we started doing this study down at Purdue, and it's quite incredible what we found. I have about eight points here.

[00:28:55] Ionized magnesium testing is the better marker for magnesium. These are words from our researcher, Dr. Taylor Wallace. So ionized magnesium testing is the better marker for magnesium. Serum magnesium is bound up and not usable. Magnesium ions are available to use in the cells.

[00:29:21] Two, using a molecular-sized analyzer, it's called a Malvern's Zetasizer Nano, ZS, we confirmed that the majority of the particles size of ReMag formulation is in the picometer range. The test was repeated three times. Now, they repeated it three times, Luke, because Taylor didn't believe the results. He had this bottle of ReMag there. He tasted it and it tastes terrible because it's so strong, salty magnesium, and he thought, there's got to be--

[00:30:01] So anyway, what this molecular-sized analyzer does is it takes a clear Pyrex dish of the ReMag or the substance, shines a laser through it, and if there's particles in the liquid, it will bounce back and give a reading. So what happens with ReMag, because it's picometer in size, the laser just went through and didn't bounce back, except there was some small percentage that did. 

[00:30:33] So he was pretty amazed. And he did it again, same result. Did it three times. He says, okay, you've got a picometer magnesium. And it's stable because that bottle was probably sitting around for six months already. And number three, ReMag goes to the ionized magnesium state and is not bound up. It's small size allows it to be absorbed higher up in the GI tract and avoid the laxative effect. 

[00:31:03] Magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide will eventually be ionized somewhat, but they revert back to a compound state immediately and therefore don't have as high an absorption efficiency. Number five, elevated ionized magnesium was measurable in the blood within two to four hours. 

[00:31:27] And then I sidebar that Dr. Taylor Wallace said that this fluctuation with one single dose of 300 milligrams of magnesium was very important. He said he would not have anticipated mineral electrolyte levels changing with one single dose. Six, clinical investigations have demonstrated that ionized magnesium, but not serum magnesium, is depressed in a number of clinical conditions.

[00:31:59] And I won't get into them because part of the thing that supplement companies are up against right now is the FDA won't allow us to say that any supplement products can cure disease. If we have testimonials on our website or make any comments that we can treat disease, then we're making an unsubstantiated medical claim, and we'll be, I don't know what, shot in the head, I guess.

[00:32:37] So anyway, just to finish up, subclinical magnesium deficiency can occur when serum magnesium levels are within the, um, lower reference range. Therefore, serum total magnesium levels may not be sufficient for diagnosis of deficiency. See, what happens is, there's this really tight range. It's 0.75 to 0.85 nanomoles per whatever. Tiny, tiny. 

[00:33:11] And what happens is, if the serum magnesium, the 1% of the magnesium in the blood, starts to get low, then the body's feedback mechanisms start pulling it out of muscles and bone because the heart is going to be affected, the electrolyte balance is going to be affected, and the heart rhythm is going to be affected. And you can have a heart attack if your magnesium is too low.

[00:33:40] So the serum magnesium will always be pumped up to look normal. It's gotten to the point, or maybe it was always there, on a blood electrolyte panel with calcium chloride, potassium, sodium, they do not even include magnesium. So doctors don't even have magnesium on their minds, in spite of the fact that 80% of known metabolic functions require magnesium. 80%. I got to quickly get rid of this screen so I can see your face. 

[00:34:20] Luke: Okay. 

[00:34:20] Carolyn: Are you shocked, Luke? 

[00:34:24] Luke: I am shocked. Every time I start to research magnesium more thoroughly, I'm shocked by two things. One, that how many, um, factors in one's health are dependent upon it, and two, that this is so underreported, as you indicated when you get your electrolytes tested, that it's not even counted most of the time.

[00:34:52] It's crazy, like so many things I find just doing this podcast and being so invested in my own health and helping to inspire and educate people to do so themselves. There's so many things that are so broadly useful that are underrecognized and underappreciated. And that's why I was excited to talk to you, because the more magnesium I take, regardless of what type it is, the better I feel. 

[00:35:19] I can almost intuit when I'm low on magnesium because I start to be, for example, more affected by EMFs, and my sleep suffers, obviously. That's pretty widely known, but it's like the elephant in the room. It's just like, God, why don't more people get this? Maybe because there's not a lot of money to be made on selling magnesium. It's not that expensive. The medical establishment maybe is just too dumb, or they want people to be on pharmaceuticals. It's such a simple fix for so many problems. And that's why I find it nerve-wracking to cover.

[00:35:58] Carolyn: Right. Okay, five things right there that you said. We're going to look at EMFs, and then this business about doctors. Let's do doctors first. Because we didn't learn word one about vitamins, and minerals, and fatty acids in med school, doctors think it's not important. And they think of diet, oh, send the person out to a dietitian who just follows the food guide or whatever. It is horrifying that it is being ignored. 

[00:36:30] With EMFs, apparently, one of the reasons why EMFs affect people is because they allow calcium to enter the cells unopposed. And what allows calcium to go in and out of cells is magnesium. Magnesium is the gatekeeper of calcium ion channels. That's how the whole system works. When you want an action potential in a muscle or a nerve impulse, your cells allow an opening, or magnesium allows the opening, calcium goes in, does the work, and gets pulled back out. 

[00:37:13] If your magnesium is deficient, then those cell channels are moosey goosey, and they can allow too much calcium in, and that means an unobstructed firing to the point of cell death. So magnesium is going to help keep those cells tight. Now, Matt Blackburn, he's big on vitamin C for EMFs too. 

[00:37:42] Luke: Yeah. Makes sense. When I heard him talking about that-- I take the MitoLife vitamin C like crazy all day, every day, just because of that. And I live in a very low EMF environment because I've designed it that way, but it makes sense with the magnesium, as you described with the calcium-gated voltage channels, I think they're called. You can picture how that works because the antagonist to calcium is magnesium, and vice versa. 

[00:38:12] There's a natural balance there. And with the vitamin C, it makes sense because of the oxidative stress that's caused by EMF, and you're taking really potent antioxidants in vitamin C. But I wanted to mention something else. I noticed early in the call, you have these, um, wireless earbuds in. As we started getting into EMF, I'm like, she must be really high in magnesium for those not to give her a headache or ruin her cognitive function. 

[00:38:37] Carolyn: Right.

[00:38:38] Luke: So there must be something to the magnesium thing because you seem to be very, very alert, and aware, and articulate.

[00:38:45] Carolyn: In my 70s. 

[00:38:52] Luke: Yeah. I want to go back to the magnesium testing, though, for people that are listening, because I'm not sure that it's totally clear. What test you think is the most viable, if you could name that again, so I can put it in the show notes? And then where would people find a practitioner, or are there websites that you're aware of where you can send in a blood sample to get it tested, and so on?

[00:39:15] Carolyn: It's probably the RBC test, red blood cell magnesium test. You can get a baseline and then start taking magnesium. Three to six months later, do another test and see if you're improving. I think that range is something like 4.2 to 6.5. And within the past 10 years, it was for 4.2, 4.5, at the low end. It went down to 3.2 because the population is getting more and more deficient.

[00:39:50] Luke: Oh, that's crazy.

[00:39:51] Carolyn: So these blood ranges are based on the sick population that walks in the door and gets their blood done. And everything is just on that old bell curve. And what I tell people is, we'd like the ionized magnesium test, but there's only a couple of hundred labs in the whole country that are doing it, the research labs and some intensive care, but hopefully with the research-- we're doing a bicyclist study right now as well using ionized testing, and hopefully, if we can get the athletes on board to do ionized magnesium testing, we'll have something going.

[00:40:33] Check this out. Red blood cells do not have mitochondria, so I think most of the magnesium in cells is floating around the mitochondria because in the glycolysis cycle, six of the eight steps require magnesium in the Krebs cycle. Another few steps require magnesium. So there's thousands of mitochondria in the cells, but none in the red blood cells. So how can that even be a measure of magnesium? So it's messed up, but like I said, get a baseline, take your magnesium, and try to get to the high end. And as for where to get it, we used to send people to request a test. It's an online company, requestingtest.com.

[00:41:28] Luke: Oh, yeah. Actually, I think that's where I got my last one. I was working with Morley Robbins, and I did the full Monty panel. One of the options was to include the red blood cell magnesium test. Yeah. And my mine, thankfully, was pretty high, at least based on the metrics of that test. Although I find it really depressing that they're lowering the standards based on the population being so deficient. There should be testing where it's like, this is the optimal superhuman level, and then here's your average American level. Where do you want to be?

[00:42:02] Carolyn: That's what we want. Yeah. And the other, um, group we got involved with was grassrootshealth.org. And this is Carole Baggerly. She had breast cancer, did all the conventional stuff. And she's some sort of engineer. And after it all settled down, she looked at her lab file and found out her vitamin D was rock bottom.

[00:42:33] So she went heavily into vitamin D research and found this, and that, and the other. And at a certain point, Dr. Mercola said, you should get in touch with Carolyn Dean to know the magnesium association with vitamin D. So GrassrootsHealth does a panel for us, RBC magnesium. I think they do a total serum plus RBC. So they try to do it all.

[00:43:02] And they do omega-3, omega-6 ratio, which is very important. And vitamin D, of course. And we were getting them to do a TSH just to see how people's thyroids were because with what I call total body meltdown that so many people have these days, their thyroids are really under attack. And maybe a lot of the attack because it is high in-- hypothyroidism is high in women.

[00:43:36] It's because of birth. A pregnancy will drain your thyroid. And also yeast overgrowth. My big two things in the world are magnesium deficiency and yeast overgrowth. And yeast toxins cross-react with the thyroid. And when the immune system attacks the yeast toxins, then the thyroid can get hit, and that can lead to autoimmune symptoms. That's what we're seeing now. 

[00:44:11] There's a doctor Ari Bush Danny who did that research. And when I was in Toronto on my private practice, I set up a lab doing antibody tests for yeast and food allergies, and I seriously found that people could answer a questionnaire about their yeast overgrowth, and it would be more accurate than an antibody test because everybody has yeast. 

[00:44:39] Yeast has a function in the body of chewing up dead things, like fungus and mold in the forest. You need those organisms to chew up the wood, or else we'd be piled sky high. Yeast will do that in the intestines. It chews up the dead things that we don't chew. Yeast overgrowth is huge. The use of antibiotics, the use of steroid, stress. That increases our own cortisol levels. Fluoride and chlorine in the water, those two things.

[00:45:20] I mentioned fluorine. Sidebar. Did you know that the most common drugs that are prescribed are fluoride drugs, like Cipro, Flonase, inhaled anesthetics in surgery? So what happens with these drugs in the gut is that the intestinal bacteria, whose job is to break down chemicals, breaks down the drugs, releases the fluorine atom, and magnesium is very reactive, so magnesium and the fluorine atom will combine and make a magnesium fluoride combined mineral. What's it called? Selenate. And that's a brittle substance that deposits in tendons, and ligaments, and maybe joints. What is the black box warning on Cipro, a major fluoride antibiotic? Tendon rupture.

[00:46:21] Luke: Wow. That's crazy. It's interesting that you bring up the yeast overgrowth. When I got into, uh, detoxing and natural healing in the mid-'90s-- I'm sure you've been around longer than I have, but you see these kinds of trends come and go in cycles, the things everyone's into. Colon hydrotherapy was really big in the '90s too, and infrared saunas hit the scene and various things like that, making your own kombucha. 

[00:46:47] But one of the things that was most prevalent in the alternative health scene was Candida. Everyone has Candida. And there's all these special Candida diets and yeast overgrowth, and every practitioner's checking your tongue to see if you have that white film on your tongue. And it was like this big scare. 

[00:47:03] And I'm sure that I probably was on oregano oil or different things just to make sure I didn't have it, but then it disappeared from the mainstream, and other things took over and became popular. And you're one of the first people that I'm aware of that's kept on the public awareness around yeast overgrowth. So I'm assuming, from your perspective, it wasn't just a trend everyone got excited about in the '90s and then forgot about. This is an ongoing issue for many people.

[00:47:34] Carolyn: Yeah, what happened, it was not treatable. What are you going to do? Avoid eating anything? I was on a strict Candida diet. I would smell foods that I couldn't eat. It was ridiculous how strict you had to be. And Diflucan, the drug company came to me in my office up in Toronto, and, oh, we hear you're treating yeast. When you do a trial with Diflucan, we'll pay you a lot of money. You look up Diflucan, it's a fluoride drug.

[00:48:09] Luke: Oh man. 

[00:48:10] Carolyn: Yeah. So anyway, people forgot about it because it was too hard to treat. And what happened right around then, Luke, is SIBO came along. Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. And I thought, oh, we can treat this. We would give antibiotics. But the whole microbiome thing came along at that time. Oh, let's focus on the microbiome. And when you read about that stuff, no mention of yeast. 

[00:48:41] But yeast, it's definitely still there. Actually, what we find is, when people take a fair amount of magnesium to get themselves saturated, at a certain point, they start experiencing yeast die-off. They'll say, oh, my tongue is coated. I've got gas and bloating. I thought I was doing so well. What's going on? Their immune system is actually finally waking up under the auspices of magnesium, and they're starting to dump yeast. And then that's where you do your soy-based probiotics, then you do silver and Saccharomyces boulardii, for example.

[00:49:25] So real simple treatment but with the underlying basis of your magnesium. Now, I'm going to say magnesium is important for 80% of non-metabolic function, but there's also everything else. What is it I was going to say? Oh, let me sidebar back to yeast. When you have yeast overgrowth, then you're susceptible to parasites. Then you're susceptible to viruses. You're susceptible to bacteria as well. 

[00:50:00] Um, when I was in my, I guess, third year of medicine doing hospital work, I started to get nasal staphylococcal boils, little tiny boils in my nose that were just so painful, and it was when my yeast was more active. So I put it together back then. When I was doing the AIDS research in New York, every one of our AIDS and chronic fatigue patients had markers for every infection. It was just across the board. Even Lyme disease. 

[00:50:40] So you can't go picking and choosing, oh, let's treat this one. What made it so much easier with having a universal approach using silver. And I'm not going to name a product because I'm not going to say our products treat disease, but we have solutions. It makes me think of thyroid and adrenal when alternative medical doctors, practitioners say, we can't treat your thyroid until we treat your adrenals, or vice versa, or your gut is so messed up. We have to detox you. We have to purge you before you take anything in because you won't be able to absorb it. 

[00:51:30] The body doesn't work like that. The body has its own priority, and you just give it the building block, and it will start, by priority, dealing with what needs to be dealt with. So after I worked on magnesium, I worked on a multiple mineral and come to find out that there are nine minerals that make thyroid hormones. Nine minerals. Not just iodine. 

[00:51:58] It's not iodine and selenium. It's iodine, selenium, boron, chromium, copper. What else? Magnesium, calcium. It's amazing how, when you get those minerals in a stabilized ionic form, then you can make your own thyroid hormones like I did. You can get off your arm or thyroid and your fingers are warm again. 

[00:52:27] And sidebar to copper, bioavailable copper is so important. Was it Carl Pfeiffer? Back in the '80s, I guess, he scared the pants off everybody about copper toxicity, and that caused a whole copper deficiency problem in the health population because people didn't think they should take any copper. I have a huge, um, community in the Amish, and they're very concerned about copper, but when they realized that they could take a stabilized ion of copper at a low potency, then we're getting--

[00:53:13] Luke:  I'm so glad you brought up copper because I feel like it's like so many of the things we've been talking about. It's the unsung hero, and it's so crucial. And going back to the good old days that we all fantasize about where we would have gotten all of our magnesium and minerals, including copper, from soil that wasn't depleted in the plants and animals that came from that soil, a lot of people I know, myself included, have tried to raise copper levels by just eating a crap load of grass-fed liver.

[00:53:48] Carolyn: But then you get too much iron. You can't do that. You can't.

[00:53:54] Luke: Yeah. And let's face it. You have to be a very unique type of person to enjoy eating liver, so I'm always looking around for sources of copper that are viable. And that brings me to, I haven't tried your products yet. It's funny. Usually, when I interview people, it's because I found their products, and then I am a fan, and then I want to learn about them. But when I was looking at your site, one that really looked cool to me was the multi-mineral one. Is that one the ReMyte ?

[00:54:25] Carolyn: That's correct. That's the one I just talked about. Twelve multiple minerals. Nine of them hit the thyroid.

[00:54:33] Luke: I'm getting that. I'm on it. And your team also, I want to mention, uh, I talked about the show notes before being lukestorey.com/carolyn, but your team gave the audience a discount, which I appreciate. Uh, it's 10%, and the code is LUKE, and you'll find that, listeners, at lukestorey.com/rnareset. And I'll be using that myself when we are done tonight because I want to get some of that multi-mineral and try some of the ReMag too.

[00:55:02] By nature, you're just not a very salesy person, and I appreciate that. I find it respectable when people aren't just all about making money, but it seems like you have some really interesting stuff going here, and it makes sense to me the way you describe the bioavailability of minerals in general, not just magnesium, but all of them. It's difficult to source them, and it's difficult to get them in a form that can actually penetrate the cell. Otherwise, you're just taking some powdered pill that is ultimately very expensive urine at the end of the day. 

[00:55:32] So I'm interested to try those, but I want to go back to, um, the Candida piece and the yeast overgrowth. As I said, it came in vogue as an issue and then went out. And I like your approach that it's more about the overall terrain, that we're not playing whack-a-mole trying to be sniper. We're just doing shotgun and get the body's vitality up so that it knows what to do to heal itself when you give it the right resources.

[00:56:01] Carolyn: Right. 

[00:56:01] Luke: But I did want to ask, if someone suspects that they're having a yeast overgrowth issue, are the antibody tests for yeast, for the reaction to yeast, still the gold standard, or are there other tests that you think are viable now if someone wanted to check that out?

[00:56:24] Carolyn: I'm not big on testing, Luke, for the reasons we've already talked about. You're on a bell curve with sick people. When I did my hair test with Morley years ago, he said, I don't know how to deal with all your ratios because you're so high in magnesium. It throws everything off. You have been-- 

[00:56:47] Luke: He must've been excited, though, because he loves magnesium. He must've been like, wow, you're the highest I've seen because you've been on it for 40 years or whatever.

[00:56:55] Carolyn: Yeah. Right, right. Well, Morley's great. He's very respectful. He always acknowledges that it was my book that got him into this business, but he never stuck around. He never stuck around long enough to learn about the way a stabilized magnesium can really help everything, even though a lot of the things he talks about, if you use your magnesium saturation, you don't have the stress cortisol that depletes your ceruloplasm.

[00:57:31] You have so many things that you don't then have to go whacking a mole if you're saturated. So he went off and did his thing, but he's this incredible researcher, and he gives a lot of information out. Sometimes it's too much, and sometimes avoiding-- you shouldn't avoid vitamin D. You shouldn't avoid vitamin C. So these things, especially during the nondemic, to tell people, don't take your vitamins-- anyway, 

[00:58:09] yeast toxins, like I said, they've been forgotten.

[00:58:16] It is the terrain, but the toxin part has been totally overlooked. There's 78 different yeast toxins, and one of them is acetaldehyde. And you get that from smoking and car exhaust. And another is just plain alcohol. So your body gets stoned and drugged, and that's the brain fog that you get with Candida overgrowth.

[00:58:47] And I think maybe some of those symptoms got people dismissed because they just look like anxious, worried hypochondriacs. That got put aside. Anyway, and the same, I think, can be said for chronic fatigue syndrome, which is now the new Long COVID. It's just chronic fatigue syndrome. 

[00:59:14] The spike protein is doing some damage, and there are things we can do for that as well. But, um, I think the Long COVID people have to look at yeast overgrowth because they took a lot of medications when they had COVID. That can cause yeast. And they have to look at all the mineral deficiencies that were caused. Anyway, back to you, Luke.

[00:59:42] Luke: Thank you for that. Yeah, I think we're probably going to see a lot of people becoming deathly ill, and in some cases, ceasing to exist under the guise of Long COVID when it's probably the medication they took to get rid of it. Not to laugh at people's misfortune, but the whole thing is just mind-boggling.

[01:00:02] But to try and get a little bit of summary of your perspective, and I think one of the reasons that I was really excited to talk to you, not only about magnesium, but I think that because minerals in general are just not very sexy-- there's all these cool things. There's Shilajit, which is great for minerals. Um, I'm thinking of things for your mitochondria. NAD.

[01:00:26] I've got an NAD patch on right now. There's things that you can really feel. I put the NAD patch on this morning because, for whatever reason, I got really crappy sleep last night, and I have so much energy. I don't even know what to do with it. I got 500 milligrams of NAD running through my system.

[01:00:41] There's the sexy biohacking stuff that you really feel and notice, but I feel like minerals are the fuel for the engine of our vitality, and they're just missed because they're, I think, generally dismissed as basic, and fundamental, and not that exciting. And they're relatively affordable. Do you think that, as a starting point, if someone is in ill health or wants to optimize their health, maybe before anything, really uploading all of their mineral levels is a good place to start just in terms of the terrain and giving the body the raw materials it needs to start to heal? Would that be a fair assessment?

[01:01:26] Carolyn: Yeah, I would say so. I mean, you can make a case for the minerals. You can write out all the good things about them and say the wonderful things they do, then you go to a store and buy some mineral compound, and you absorb 4% of it. So people just don't keep taking things that aren't helping them, except-- I've done it. I went through the decades of just swallowing dozens of pills. Now, I take 10 twice a day, this and that, and my mineral drink.

[01:02:06] So minerals, yeah, they are the building blocks. And if you can get them in the stabilized ionic state, you know they're fully absorbed. And as we're able to do more studies, the nondemic stopped the university research, but as we continue to do studies, we'll show the absorption of these picometer-sized minerals that they get into the cells.

[01:02:32] You're not just buying what we call dirt minerals and expecting them to do something. Even with the farm that I'm working with, I've tried to eat just farm food to see if I got everything I needed, and no, my heart palpitations came back, my leg cramps came back, and I can't be a vegetarian. I did get pneumonia when I tried a strict macrobiotic diet. I did. 

[01:03:03] I didn't have enough protein to keep my fluids balanced, so I built up fluid in my lungs. There I was with my stethoscope, listening to my chest rattle. And seriously, I ate some chicken, and my chest cleared because I got the protein I needed. So people do have to be careful. One of my foster kids, she's in her 50s now, but she tried a strict vegan diet for about 20 years, and she finally stopped it when her teeth started falling out. 

[01:03:36] Luke: That's what happened to me. Yeah. I was a vegetarian for many years, and my teeth-- it's so funny because prior to that-- and I'll just be forthcoming with you. I already have to the audience that listens to the show, but I had a lot of problems with addiction when I was a kid, starting really young.

[01:03:52] I did a lot of street drugs for a very long time. Made it out alive. Twenty six years sober. Lived to tell the tale. But what's funny is, at the end of my years of doing all these drugs, my teeth were perfect. I don't know. I guess I listened to my mom when I was a kid. She said, brush your teeth twice a day.

[01:04:10] I guess I brushed well. I don't know how I survived, but my teeth were fine. Never had any cavities. Nothing. And then when I got sober, I really wanted to detox and get healthy. And back then, being a vegetarian was really trendy. This was mid-'90s. So I became a vegetarian for many years. And a few years into being a vegetarian, I thought I was doing the right thing for my body and also the welfare of animals.

[01:04:31] There was no understanding then of the difference between a regenerative farm and animal cruelty versus factory farms, and I didn't want to harm animals. It's a whole thing. But anyway, a few years into being a vegetarian, all my teeth rotted out of my head. I started getting all these cavities, chipped teeth, my teeth started falling apart. And that's why I have such a beautiful smile here today, because these are all porcelain teeth. Because eventually, even though I went back on animals, I did too much damage in the vegetarian years. 

[01:04:59] Carolyn: Wow. 

[01:05:00] Luke: I didn't have the vitamin A. I was getting no retinol. Not getting bioavailable minerals. Obviously, the protein that you mentioned. And it was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in terms of my health and diet, and I really paid the price for it. It was a bummer.

[01:05:17] Carolyn: Yeah, it's very disheartening. When you think of the statistics, only 4% of the American population is vegan or vegetarian, 4%, yet somehow, they're driving us all to think that you have to be a vegan or vegetarian to be healthy or to save the planet. All this incredible brainwashing has harmed a lot of people.

[01:05:45] Luke: Yeah. Yeah, it has. It's unfortunate. I always encourage people to do what they want. I'm never going to shame anyone for the kind of food they eat. And I definitely encourage people to disidentify their personality from what foods they choose to eat. There's a huge egoic trap in ,I'm a vegan. I'm a carnivore.

[01:06:03] It's like, let all that go. You're a soul in a human body having a human experience. But apart from that, I have, over the years, been approached by many people who are on a plant-based diet who said, man, I'm dying over here. What should I do? And I said, all right, first thing, get on bone broth. 

[01:06:20] That's an easy gateway in, especially if it's the ethics that are bothering you because animals that are made into bone broth would have been killed for their muscle meat anyway, and so you're actually doing them a favor by using the whole animal. So there's your ethics problem. But, yeah, a lot--

[01:06:36] Carolyn: That's why we pray over our food. We bless the animals who gave their lives for us. I consider myself a little more important than an animal. I'm not going to let it live a great life while I suffer. Did that come across too rude?

[01:06:55] Luke: No, it's your truth.

[01:06:56] Carolyn: And I don't care.

[01:06:58] Luke: It's your truth. You're doing great. Like I said, you're full of energy, vitality. You're running a company. You're doing a, uh, where we at? Hour-and-10-minute podcast, staying on point. So obviously, whatever you're doing is working for you. And like I said, I encourage people to do whatever they want, but there is, um, a definite push in recent years of propaganda to discourage people from eating animal products, and it's so misguided. 

[01:07:24] I've interviewed so many people that are pioneers in regenerative agriculture, so when you talk about the climate, the story does not hold up. Think about when we had 70 million bison across the United States and it was all a grassland. And now we have an arid desert because they killed them all. It's like the animals actually are great for the environment when they're not factory-farmed and abused.

[01:07:50] So it's a much bigger picture, I think, than many people realize. There are different ways to raise animals and different ways to make the animal products healthier and have less suffering in the process of raising those animals. So it's nuanced, but I definitely share your position, man. If it's going to be me or them, I got to be healthy. I got work to do here. I can't wither away like I did when I was a vegetarian. 

[01:08:17] Carolyn: Let me--

[01:08:18] Luke: Yeah, go ahead. 

[01:08:19] Carolyn:  You mentioned your NADH patch. To me, that's medicinal. I think of cold plunging as medicinal. Even hot saunas is medicinal. You're shocking your body into a reaction that you like, and it measures great. It's like, oh, look, my HGH is up, and this is up. But what you're doing to create that result is burning up a lot of your nutrients, and you're not replacing them. 

[01:08:58] And so people will get a hit, and what happens is then they come to us. They say, oh, I tried this, I tried that, and now I'm crashing. I tried the 50 milligrams of iodine, and now I can't take this. I tried this. And so I get the people who tried these things, and then they come for just the balance. Let's just take a little bit of everything that's going to be really well absorbed, and bit by bit, you'll get yourself back. I don't even believe in the detoxing. I've gotten addicted to coffee enemas, for Pete's sake, in my time. I did the Colema boards. I've done it all.

[01:09:45] Luke: Yeah. The Colema boards. I used to have one of those. That's so funny. Actually, it's funny. Speaking of Hawaii, you reminded me of so many things, I think, because we're just going back in the history of natural healing. Uh, there's a place, it probably still exists, called Angel Farms on the Big Island.

[01:10:02] And I went there in, uh, the late '90s. This lovely woman, Cindy, uh, ran it, and they had all these industrial Colema board setups, these gravity-fed colonics, and they'd put herbs, and ozone, and everything. And you would go in there for two or three hours every day for 14 days and do these colonics.

[01:10:23] And people had crazy tape worms coming out, and they would keep the water in the tub and then go poke around with the stick and show you what came out. No worms came out of me, but yeah, you just reminded me of the Colema boards. And so then I got one and had it in my apartment. Oh God. Yeah.

[01:10:43] Carolyn: But I went through all that, taking dozens of supplements, and it was not until I got my minerals in balance. And even when I found out that my vitamin D level was 19, and it should be 60, optimum, I didn't feel the effect of that because I think being saturated with magnesium, whatever vitamin D I was getting from my little bit in my morning walk or in my diet, was activating it. And of course, I do take vitamin D now. If you have a measure, you might as well make use of it. So there are these basic building blocks that you can take and not have to go off and do medicinal supplementation, I guess I would say.

[01:11:39] Luke: Yeah, no, I appreciate your approach. I think I'm a bit on the extreme side, I would admit that. And also, I'm a Guinea pig because I share so much information with tens of thousands of people every week on this show, so I like to try things to see what happens. And sometimes I think I'm willing to take the hit so I can share with someone like, hey, this thing works. It doesn't work. It was a waste of money. It had side effects, or whatever.

[01:12:07] But I definitely see your point with a balanced approach, and that's really why, again, I wanted to bring up the minerals, because I think even for me, this is something that, just intuitively, I know that this is something that's so simple and straightforward and could solve so many underlying issues.

[01:12:25] Maybe the reason I put my NAD patch on today and slept like crap last night was because I didn't have enough magnesium. So it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul. So today I put this mega dose of derma delivery NAD, and I could have maybe solved it by just having enough magnesium. So I think you're onto something there.

[01:12:50] Carolyn: Yeah, it's possible. But I've been experimenting my whole life too, so I think we're all adventurous in that way. But I think the people that I attract are in total body meltdown. They've been there, done that. Actually, in 2008, I was doing an online wellness program where people subscribe to these weekly newsletters, and I told them everything. I had a 108. What to do with your Wi-Fi, backward walking. You know it all.

[01:13:35] At a certain point, it was 2008 when the economy crashed the last time, and people started to say to me, I just don't have time to read. I can't follow all these possible steps. Just tell me what to take. So they went to a supplement mentality. I don't think I've finished any question you've asked me, but when we were asking about the supplements, yeah, they became commercial. 

[01:14:06] The Natural Calm that I used to consult for them on magnesium at the Expo East and Expo West, when they finally decided to sell the company, they sold it to one company that looked like they were into natural supplements, who sold it to another company that was a little sketchy, who sold it to Clorox. Clorox now owns Natural Calm. So what are they using?

[01:14:38] Because if you're traded on whatever, Wall Street, you have to use the cheapest products to make the most money for your shareholders. It's the law. So all these companies now are being bought up by Nestle. And you can look at any of the supplements that you used to use 20 years ago. They've all been bought out.

[01:15:12] Luke: Well, it's funny you bring up Natural Calm. I forgot about that stuff. Talk about disaster pants laxative effect, whatever magnesium they're putting in there. It also feels like it's eating the enamel off your teeth. I would never use that stuff. It's so acidic. It's just horrible. So God bless anyone that can still stand Natural Calm.

[01:15:33] I'm going to try your ReMag. It sounds like it's very effective, and I will avoid the Natural Calm because it doesn't feel very natural. It feels like battery acid in your mouth. So I want to remind people again if they want to check out your stuff. I'm definitely going to. lukestorey.com/rnareset. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Your code's LUKE for 10% off. 

[01:15:59] Before we go, and as I said, you're not a big self-promoter, which I respect, but other than-- I know you have a few different things. Say for me or anyone listening wants to try the ReMyte, the multi-mineral, the ReMag, what's your other flagship that you'd recommend just as a foundational thing to try?

[01:16:18] Carolyn: That would be ReAline. That's our taking out the garbage. It's the food-based and methylated B vitamins.

[01:16:28] Luke: Oh, cool.

[01:16:28] Carolyn: And low potency. They're food-based and methylated, so they go down really nicely. And what I did is I put in the L-taurine and L-methionine as well. Taurine for the heart, and collagen, and a number of things. And methionine as a precursor to glutathione. So you get your antioxidant, glutathione. I know ceruloplasm is a huge antioxidant, and you get that from taking bioavailable copper, which is in my ReMyte. But the ReAline is awesome. And I'm not suggesting this, folks, but if you drink three or four drinks and take two or three ReAline, you don't build up blood alcohol levels. It helps detoxify very quickly.

[01:17:20] Luke: Cool. Good to know for the boozers listening.

[01:17:26] Carolyn: Yeah. That's the experiment that we've done to prove how awesome it is. 

[01:17:30] Luke: That's cool. 

[01:17:31] Carolyn: And I mentioned there's a vitamin D3 with K2, there's an omega-3 algae. I don't use fish oil because, in order to get rid of all the mercury and all the toxicity in fish oils, they have to process it so much that I think it doesn't make it natural anymore, let's just say that. And also, I live in Maui, where the whales come down from Alaska. They feed on krill and then come down here to give birth. And if we use all their krill for our silly omega-3 supplements, then we're starving the whale. So with omega-3 algae, you get the precursors. 

[01:18:21] What did the fish eat in order to make their omega-3s? They eat algae. So we use algae. And in the omega-3, I put vitamin A, retinol, and vitamin E. So I have all this nice, little fat bundle, and they all help the absorption of each other. That, and a pico silver, and a zinc plus copper. I got into those things around the time of the nondemic. And also, of course, food-based vitamin C and an ascorbic acid vitamin C powder. So it's nine of the basics. But what you do instead of your patches is rub in some ReMag lotion or ReMag balm, and that would--

[01:19:14] Luke: Oh, cool.

[01:19:15] Carolyn: Yeah.

[01:19:15] Luke: So it's like transdermal magnesium?

[01:19:19] Carolyn: Oh yeah. For the children, for infants, it's awesome. And the thing about taking your minerals, we get used to lining up our pills, and some people say, oh, I want to swallow it all at once. What I tell people to do, you have to stay hydrated. So you take your body weight in pounds, divide that in half, drink that many ounces of water a day.

[01:19:46] In each liter of that water, you put a quarter teaspoon of a good, dark sea salt. It has to have some color to it. If it's a White Sea salt, then it's been processed. So a quarter teaspoon of sea salt in a liter of water. And into one of your jars or glasses of water, you put your mineral and sip that. You sip it through the day. Because if you take nutrients pell-mell, they're going to flood over your cells and be excreted. It's just a big waste. 

[01:20:25] So you take your nutrients throughout the day. And being liquid minerals, all my minerals are liquid, so it's easy. Seriously, Luke, we have people who are so sensitive that we tell them, just start with a few drops of this or that. Just start with a few drops. And it calms people down because they're so used to these supplements attacking them. Because if you're very toxic, very weak, and on the edge, if you start taking a nutrient that starts revving up your metabolism, it could put you over the edge. And even though it may be a good thing, it's misinterpreted because they feel so bad.

[01:21:10] Luke: That's a really good point. I have a friend that has, I don't know, probably multiple co-infections, Lyme, Epstein Barr, etc. Older person. And I'll find out about something like copper or this or that. Oh, you got to take this. And she's like, I can't take supplements because I have histamine reactions and all kinds of crazy stuff.

[01:21:29] The things that I feel would be good, she's usually already tried them and has some sort of reaction. It's really frustrating because you're like, ah, God, what do you do then? So that makes a lot of sense. Actually, it's like microdosing your minerals in a more measured way rather than just overloading your system and getting some reaction. 

[01:21:51] Carolyn: Ten drops of ReMag, take that once a day for a week, then do two drops of the ReMyte, and take that together with the ten drops of-- and just slowly. Do your experiment. And we have all the time in the world, so there's no reason to think you have to go up to a teaspoon a day. I had to take four teaspoons a day to get rid of my symptoms. And now, if I take a teaspoon and a half, I get the laxative effect because I'm saturated. So minerals that work, they're not like drugs where you have to keep taking more and more. 

[01:22:33] My experience with minerals was-- we were telling our patients to take oral. If that wasn't working, we were giving them-- well, I never went to IM. I was doing IV vitamins and minerals on people, and that's because the pills weren't absorbing. We have people now who have genetic problems with their magnesium absorption, so they're dependent on IV magnesium. They have a permanent port in their neck or arm, and they've switched off to daily sipping their magnesium. And they don't need the IV magnesium anymore. Amazing.

[01:23:23] Luke: Awesome. That's super cool. Thank you. Before we go, I got one more question for you, and I'm curious to hear your answer because you know a lot of people and you've been on the scene for a while. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you'd like to share with us? Three heavy hitters that are really inspired you.

[01:23:47] Carolyn: Yeah. So that would be William Crook. He wrote The Yeast Connection, Dr. William Crook. And Jeffrey Bland. He really got us going back in the day. And number three, I might say Morley, for his continuing research. I don't think what he's doing is good enough because he could be using picometer minerals. And I know because I get his rejects. Seriously, there are people who cannot keep giving blood to get rid of their iron. Some people are not supposed to be doing that. Anyway. 

[01:24:46] So I'd say I appreciate Morley's output. I don't think he looks very healthy. I must say that. I don't know why. I'd like to help him. I appreciate what he's doing because he's just a monster about not even just keeping up with the literature, but reading the ancient history that everybody has forgotten. It's almost like in our world, if it's 10, 15 years old, you can't go back further than that, and that's just horrible. I found that out when I was updating my magnesium book, that they didn't want references back in the '80s.

[01:25:35] Luke: Yeah, Morley is like a biblical scholar of health literature. He really is a wealth of information. Yeah. 

[01:25:46] Carolyn: Yeah. Davening with his yamaka. I know.

[01:25:49] Luke: Yeah, absolutely. 

[01:25:50] Carolyn: He's quite the geek. 

[01:25:51] Luke: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. You mentioned people come to you. Are you still working with clients at all at this point?

[01:26:01] Carolyn: Oh, no, no, no. No. I have this incredible customer service. We do not do anything medical. The FDA is coming after supplement companies. They sent out, I think, 750 letters to 750 companies that are selling supplements and said, you have to cease and desist your testimonials or making any claims.

[01:26:28] We did not get a letter because we saw the writing on the wall. I've been watching this since [Inaudible]. I was over in Europe at the Rome meetings. Where else? In Germany, somewhere, we had meetings where they were trying to create this worldwide suppression of supplements through the WHO and the World Trade Organization. It's horrible.

[01:27:01] Luke: Yeah. They like to monopolize. Yeah. Well, great work. Great to meet you finally after all these years. I really appreciate your time, and, I look forward to trying out your stuff and staying in touch.

[01:27:15] Carolyn: Thank you so much, Luke. Wonderful to meet you. I appreciate it.

[01:27:18] Luke: You too.

[01:27:19] Carolyn: Aloha. 

[01:27:19] Luke: Aloha to you. 

‍