[00:00:00] Alex Sachon: Today, we're sitting on the cusp of so many great transformations in the world. We're moving from nation states to global government, and then we're moving from capitalism to technocracy. The archetype of this empire model really comes from Atlantis. Today. We're exactly one half cycle away. There's this idea that there was a previous cycle of human existence that had a golden age, but then fell into corruption, fell into decline.

[00:00:23] Luke Storey: It sounds familiar. Looking at this country right now, I'm like, how many times do you think you're gonna vote to change the, it doesn't matter which head is on the snake. The problem is we believe in the snake, 

[00:00:35] Alex Sachon: the atlantian arche typist, re expressing itself in this new context of our civilization today.

[00:00:40] America, as the global empire is the final stage of this, in many ways, is expressing this Atlassian archetype, including the corruption of this leadership class.

[00:00:55] Luke Storey: How'd you get into esoteric philosophy to begin with? What makes you the sort [00:01:00] of broad thinker that you are? 

[00:01:02] Alex Sachon: Well, it's kind of a story. It's, it's what we're here for. It wasn't, it wasn't until I was around 30 that I specifically got into esoteric philosophy. Although I got into Eastern philosophy, particular Daoism when I was a teenager.

[00:01:17] And I didn't grow up religious and I never got interested in like western theology, that type of thinking. I just didn't have a attraction to it. And, um, we didn't go to church much growing up, so it, we were just a secular kind of middle class family. And my last year of high school, actually in between my freshman year of college and my last year of high school, I took a month long trip to China and it was organized by a couple teachers at my high school.

[00:01:45] And before we went, we did a course on ancient Chinese like history, culture and art. And I did a presentation on Taoism. So that was my first exposure to it. And I, I started reading the da de [00:02:00] Ching and I fell in love with it. And I still love it to this day because it's the founding of, it's like the basis of the Daoist religion, but it's really a book of philosophy.

[00:02:09] There's no theology in it. It's very poetic. And then I also got into Zen Buddhism a bit. So that was my entry into philosophy. But there was another aspect that started to develop around that same time period for me, which was a dawning awareness and great interest in the idea that we're in a time of great transformation and that there's a also a tremendous world crisis that's taking place across a number of fronts.

[00:02:38] So this was in the early two thousands when I was in high school, or graduated in oh four and I. Ended up studying in my undergrad a field called human Geography, which is basically the study of civilization evolving through time and space. And so I got [00:03:00] really interested in taking this big picture, look at the unfoldment of like the human story.

[00:03:05] And I wanted to inform my understanding of the present world crisis that we're in by understanding this larger pattern. And so that was like kind of my intellectual foundation. So, but I didn't have a necessarily a way to bridge those two things together. The, the philosophy part in this interest and society and, and the social sciences, which I also have a master's in.

[00:03:28] And so that those kind of parallel streams ended up in my late twenties kind of coming together. And that was when I studied this field of esoteric where I, when I discovered this field of esoteric philosophy, because as I was trying to, so just to continue to look forward with the story, I, so I went to grad school after undergrad.

[00:03:50] I had a couple years where I got some experience in like the consulting world and didn't love it. So I got outta school and my, my grad school program was called organizational [00:04:00] science, so social sciences focused in the fields of like management businesses and things like that. And when I got outta school.

[00:04:08] This is right around the time of Occupy Wall Street. I kind of, a big thing happened for me, which is I started studying the financial system and came across a couple of thinkers that really shaped my view of it in terms of empire like framing. Why does the financial system work like it does? And what, why, why did occupy, I mean, why did the Wall Street crisis happen like it did?

[00:04:31] And, um, and I kind of realized that, oh, this is a system of empire and the financial system serves that empire. It's not about economic ideology or Keynes and, you know, it's, it's, it has nothing to do with the way economics are taught the school. So I started to incorporate that, that idea and that research into this passion that I had for studying like human history and the development of civilization.

[00:04:54] And I started to research it in terms of this idea of the development of empires and where, where does this come from psychologically, [00:05:00] and kind of taking this nuanced, full spectrum perspective of it. But again, I didn't know how to bring in this philosophy side, this eastern philosophy side that, um, I was also interested in.

[00:05:12] And then at a certain point in my research about civilization, I started dealing with the issues of consciousness in mind. Like how do those factor in? And then through that process, I. Started studying, uh, or got familiar with this field of esoteric philosophy. The word esoteric means inward. So it's a, it's a field of philosophy that's derived from an inner shamanistic path of knowledge.

[00:05:38] And there's a long history of it, and it's cross-cultural. Every, every culture, ancient culture had their own across the world, had their own version of this field. Um, but I started studying it and then pretty quickly discovered a figure name H hp, hp ky. This was in the late 18 hundreds. She became a very prominent, the work that she did became very important in, [00:06:00] in this field.

[00:06:00] So I started studying her and was having a rough go of it. 'cause it's pretty tough. Like her books, she's not a native English speaker, so her books are very dense. And this is also the 18 hundreds, like Dick, Kinsey and Era. So like everything's really long and verbose. Around that period, I discovered a successor, a kind of spiritual successor of her work who kind of carried it forward.

[00:06:19] And this was a guy named Manly P Hall, who was an American philosopher based outta Los Angeles. And he was active from the 1920s to the 19 to 1990. So he had a very long career and he, when I discovered him, it was like a eureka kind of moment because he made everything so simple and he's like the, for me, he's like the master teacher of, of this field, of esoteric philosophy.

[00:06:45] So that. So discovering hi. His work helped me synthesize so much, not only in my understanding of philosophy, but it helped me bring in all this other research about civilization. 'cause he deals a lot with this history of civilization as well. That kind of esoteric history [00:07:00] and like putting those together that became this book becoming World Nation.

[00:07:04] Luke Storey: Wow. Dude, I can't wait to read it. You, you picked a challenging, um, amalgamation of really big ideas to start exploring, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, one could spend lifetimes in any one of those avenues. 

[00:07:19] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:19] Luke Storey: Just to take a crack at it. That's really interesting. On the, uh, on the empire, it's funny, I never think of it in that, in that, uh, term with those terms, but it's fitting for, I think this duality that civilization has always kind of lived in, right?

[00:07:38] The, the forces of dark and evil, this kind of spiritual warfare. Um, and it seems to me the, the way I would view empires more on the darker side of that. Yeah. Right? It's like you have just, you have living beings, animals, right? That are us humans living men and women. Um, and I think of us as, I think [00:08:00] of bear and deer we're just, you know, going back in time, we would've been living off the land hunter gatherers.

[00:08:06] And then it seems like there was a point at which maybe around the time of. Agriculture and I'm, I'm certainly no history buff, but this is just my very elementary kind of understanding of it mm-hmm. As zoomed out as far as I can. It's like when we started growing food in one place, it became stationary.

[00:08:24] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:24] Luke Storey: And you could start to store that food. You could start to, uh, you could start to contain livestock mm-hmm. And produce livestock and food from that. Then therefore you need some sort of militia or police force to guard that. Mm-hmm. And people are able to start amassing wealth. 

[00:08:40] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:41] Luke Storey: Whereas beforehand, you would have to just carry your shit and be migrating around according to the weather and Right.

[00:08:48] Uh, you know, where there was food available to forge and hunt and things like that. Mm-hmm. It seems like at that point someone figured out, Hmm. Someone, you know, the greedy minded kind of people that became empire [00:09:00] figured out. Oh wow. We can sort of, uh, hoard resources and start to gain control mm-hmm. As part of it.

[00:09:06] But then there's this other thing, and this is the way I think about it in terms of philosophy and what I think a lot of the issues we face now and always have is that there's something about the human mind that is, is um, has this. Superstition about needing an authority to take care of them or protect them.

[00:09:37] It's like this belief in hierarchy. 

[00:09:42] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:42] Luke Storey: You know, that we believe in kings and queens and leaders and now politicians, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:48] Alex Sachon: It's 

[00:09:48] Luke Storey: like looking at this country right now, I'm like, you guys, how many times do you think you're gonna vote to change this shit? 

[00:09:56] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:56] Luke Storey: Like, it doesn't matter which [00:10:00] head is on the snake.

[00:10:01] The problem is we believe in the snake. 

[00:10:04] Alex Sachon: Mm. 

[00:10:05] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? 

[00:10:05] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:06] Luke Storey: It's like we, we believe in, um, in a ruling class that we need a ruling class to function. 

[00:10:12] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:12] Luke Storey: And I wonder how, and this is, there's a question in this, I wonder how much of that is based in reality that large groups of people coming together to form civilization do need a ruling class or everything would just go to shit.

[00:10:26] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Or 

[00:10:26] Luke Storey: is it. That we've been conditioned by the ruling class to believe that we need them. 

[00:10:33] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:10:33] Luke Storey: That keeps perpetuating this, you know, as you refer to it, empire. 

[00:10:37] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:10:37] Luke Storey: Which to me is this parasitic sort of dark energy, right? That siphons our energy through taxation and all the ways that they do their siphoning.

[00:10:46] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Well, I, I have kind of a complicated answer to that. I do think hierarchy is not unnatural. I do think there's an archetype there, but the problem is it can express itself in different forms. And what we have is the negative [00:11:00] expression of that. But if you think about, just go back to ancient primitive civilization.

[00:11:06] You always had the elders and you had the, the, the leaders of society, uh, were, you know, you So in, in those days, like you think tribal hunter gatherer style, you can't afford bad leadership. You'll very quickly fall out. So there are sta there were standards that were clear for everybody to see about who, who warranted leadership.

[00:11:25] Luke Storey: But also in, in, in the best case scenario, I would assume that that type of leadership was voluntary. 

[00:11:35] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:35] Luke Storey: Right? Like you could choose to follow the tribal elder. Right. Or not. Whereas now, where either forced or coerced right into following the tribal elder, call it the president, Senator Congressperson, whatever.

[00:11:46] Right. Right. 

[00:11:47] Alex Sachon: Well, I think you were making an important point when you talk about the changes that happened when civilization became sedentary, because then that gave the opportunity. For the leadership to somewhat become detached by, from the old [00:12:00] standards, and then you could have these entrenched elite kind of become parasitic.

[00:12:06] Yeah. And that's what we see over time. Yeah. Um, happening. But, you know, I think the ideal form of a hierarchy would be civilization as a schoolhouse, because in the school you do have a hierarchy between the teachers and students and the elders and those who are still developing. And I think that there's a pattern there that we can also look within civilization that could be applied.

[00:12:28] And I think that that's, that's the ideal form, and that's what that Plato is kind of getting at in his, his thinking about what the ideal form of civilization would be is that it would be, he called it the Philosoph Empire or a philosophical commonwealth. But this would be an empire that was dedicated towards education in the spiritual development of, in the, in the sort of a perfection of society and the individual.

[00:12:53] And in that sense, you do have old souls, so to speak, who are naturally qualified [00:13:00] to be kind of the leaders, the teachers, the instructors. And in all spiritual traditions you have a tradition of a guru and disciple, but there's a authenticity there because you have somebody who has. Um, who had an awakening, who, who has some superior knowledge or ability, and you have somebody who's new and just coming up and needs that tutoring to achieve that level.

[00:13:21] Right. So that, that, that's what I mean by the, the hierarchy. There is a naturalness to it. Yeah. 

[00:13:25] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:13:25] Alex Sachon: But it can also be expressed in a negative polarity in which it becomes what we have today. 

[00:13:31] Luke Storey: H how much does consent, uh, determine that in, in that, okay. I, I've followed leaders and guru and had right. Many great guides and teachers.

[00:13:43] Right. And the, I gave my consent 

[00:13:46] Alex Sachon: right, 

[00:13:47] Luke Storey: to their directives. Um, whereas looking at the system in which we find ourselves now, uh, a lot of the consent is through tacit [00:14:00] agreement. Right. It's like we're signing our name on legal documents, right. And our birth certificate. And there's, there's all of this sort of slight of hand going on where we are giving consent to empire, but we often don't know that that's what we're doing.

[00:14:14] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, that's a big question. The nature of, of how, uh, how do you design a system where people can comfortably opt in or out, sort of 

[00:14:26] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:14:27] Alex Sachon: And give their consent to participating in, under someone's leadership versus being, um, I mean, these are the great questions of civilization to navigate, but I do, 

[00:14:35] Luke Storey: I want you to answer them now.

[00:14:38] Alex Sachon: Um. I, I mean, off the top, I think that, I mean, I guess what, what would be, what would you need is the access to an alternative that if you didn't wanna opt in. But, you know, in our, in our civilization today with this, the global interconnection of things, there really isn't [00:15:00] new territories to move into.

[00:15:01] Like in the olden days, if you didn't get along with your society or you didn't want to consent to a certain leadership, you could go off and start a new tribe somewhere else. And, um, I think that actually explains a lot of the history of human migration over time, was a community would settle down and then you'd have a rogue group go off and somehow maybe they got in conflict, or for whatever reason, they would go off and break away.

[00:15:25] Then they would settle a new place and then they would settle. So I think that that's, this a, a very human story about our, our history. But what that means for today, I think ultimately our crisis is in, uh, as we approach global globalism, globalization, uh, is to finally get into the roots of where the corruption comes from.

[00:15:45] So that the answer isn't just to, to run away from it again, or to, or, or to opt out of it. But to say we need to develop a system that, that gets to the heart of what makes humans sick and move into an [00:16:00] extractive imperialist, um. Kind of domineering mode. 'cause that's also a very human thing. But, you know, in philosophy there's a, there there's a, a high sense of idealism that, that humans actually, there is an ideal that we can strive towards, but we have to figure out, have a vision for what that ideal is, and then apply that to our, a civilization that we have.

[00:16:22] And, um, you know, at a certain point is destined that humanity is go, is gonna populate the globe, which we have, but is gonna be interconnected. And at that level it's either we have a dream of just moving off planet. We don't wanna, you know, we can opt out by good going on Mars or something. Or we can actually get to the heart of the issue that we've been avoiding as a race for a long time, which is, you know, what is this battle?

[00:16:46] What is this duality between light and darkness within the human soul? And how do we ultimately synthesize this conflict into the full expression of a human being in human civilization? 

[00:16:57] Luke Storey: What do you think it is in the [00:17:00] collective human psyche that allows the vast majority of us to be exploited, subjugated controlled by a very small portion of people.

[00:17:16] And it, and it's, it's worldwide, right? It's like there, there are these institutions and groups. That people refer to as the elite. I refer to 'em as parasites because that's really how they function. But it's, it's always been strange to me. Like it seems that they have some, they have some kind of code.

[00:17:36] They, they have some sort of sophisticated understanding of the human psyche to the degree that so few of them, in terms of numbers can exert complete and total control and extraction from the masses. 

[00:17:54] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:54] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? It's like, say you take this country right here, right now, I think so many people are [00:18:00] dissatisfied with the, you know, the, the people that are running the show, right.

[00:18:05] And they kind of are seeing the Epstein files and the corruption. I mean, it's just like, wow, what are we paying taxes for? You know? Mm-hmm. This kind of thing. Mm-hmm. It's like the sheer volume of people in this country compared to those that are, you know, um, causing us harm. We outnumber them by such vast numbers, and yet we don't see that or acknowledge that there's, there's some sort of barrier to our capacity.

[00:18:33] Like we, we just think, well, this is the way it is. What am I gonna do about it? I'm just a plumber, I'm just a podcaster. You know? It's like you guys, there's more of us than there are them, but how do we, how do we organize in a way that's. Nonviolent and effective. It, it seems. Well, 

[00:18:48] Alex Sachon: the problem is, one of the main problems is that we can't agree on what the reality is.

[00:18:52] Luke Storey: Okay. Among 

[00:18:52] Alex Sachon: ourselves. 

[00:18:53] Luke Storey: Yeah. There you go. Okay. 

[00:18:54] Alex Sachon: And partly is that we don't have a shared understanding of what reality is, what what is being [00:19:00] human represent. And it's that lack of a vision and a lack of a shared understanding, which I think is, is the root of the problem. It's like a tower of Babel type of situation.

[00:19:13] Mm-hmm. The confusion of tongues, mankind fights among each other. You can't mobilize any collective effort, you know, among the elite. There is that unifying element of maintaining power and I mean, 

[00:19:27] Luke Storey: right. But it 

[00:19:27] Alex Sachon: only works. 

[00:19:28] Luke Storey: So they have an organizing principle, even though there might be warring factions and disagreements, and we perceive them to be enemies, you know, heads of state, et cetera.

[00:19:37] But they're, they're all kind of ultimately on the same team. 

[00:19:40] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:19:40] Luke Storey: Because they 

[00:19:41] Alex Sachon: the preservation of that system 

[00:19:42] Luke Storey: that Yeah, exactly. Okay. Okay. And how, how much of our lack of organizational principle, um, or vision is engineered when we look at the left, right paradigm, for example, in this country? To me, if, [00:20:00] if you strip away politics from it, I think most people generally want the same things.

[00:20:04] They, they want to provide for their family. They want some measure of safety certainty, security. You know, they want, um, sustenance shelter, I mean, just the basic human needs. It seems like wherever you are in like a political spectrum, we can kind of meet there somewhere in the middle. 

[00:20:22] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:23] Luke Storey: But there's so much propaganda and mind control mm-hmm.

[00:20:27] Working on the division, you know, socially, racially, et cetera. 

[00:20:32] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Well, I think 

[00:20:35] Luke Storey: now, like the consensus is, to me, it, the consensus is deliberately destroyed. Right. You know what I mean? We do have a consensus. Right. Most regular people like agree on the same things. 

[00:20:48] Alex Sachon: Yeah, that's true. And so to understand this issue, I think we have to go into the history of the, the rise of the American Empire and how it, it transformed over time.

[00:20:57] Because in many ways the American Empire [00:21:00] that we live in today is the, is the forward extension of the British Empire that came before, which is the forward extension of, you know, the Venetian Empire, which is a forward extension of the Roman Empire. Yeah. So it's been this, this wave of empires. 

[00:21:12] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:21:13] Alex Sachon: And in my book, I talk about the idea of the, the archetype of this.

[00:21:19] Empire model is really comes from Atlantis. Atlantis. If we go back to Plato again, but also this is touched on in almost all ancient myths. There's this idea that there was a, a previous civilization, or we can, I think more accurately, a previous, a previous cycle of human existence that was once this globally extended, uh, civilization that had a golden age, but then fell into corruption, fell into decline, it fell into empire.

[00:21:47] Luke Storey: That sounds familiar. 

[00:21:49] Alex Sachon: And well, one of the things I talk about also, 'cause we can now expand this into a larger, like ontological view, but um, without going, going into the, that full story, we can just say [00:22:00] one of the things that seems to have developed is that Atlantis was the birthplace of also the caste system.

[00:22:07] So it was much more of a hi of mind in this, in the sense of human individuality wasn't well expressed. But when the principles of egotism and the kind of materiality began to emerge within the human mind as part of a, a longer term evolutionary process like these, these capacities were destined to come out when they first began to emerge.

[00:22:27] They, they, uh, there was no defense mechanism against them or there was no way to handle these new capacities. And that was the beginning of this, this fall into empire and extraction and kind of the, the psychology of me, you know? And so 

[00:22:46] Luke Storey: have you, have you looked into this. Um, have you ever seen this documentary series?

[00:22:50] Sorry to interrupt. Yeah, 

[00:22:51] Alex Sachon: yeah, go 

[00:22:51] Luke Storey: ahead. Uh, you, you keep touching on things that are so interesting to me, so I'm gonna have to really restrain myself. Have you seen the Century of Self? 

[00:22:58] Alex Sachon: I'm aware of it. 

[00:22:59] Luke Storey: Oh, [00:23:00] dude. So, but I haven't watched, so interesting, one of, one of the ideas put forth, it's, I think it's a BBC documentary.

[00:23:05] Yeah. Was that basically the entire, uh, Eastern mysticism, India yoga, meditation, uh, influx that happened, um, you know, in the, in the sixties was to instill this self-centered kind of mindset that became the cultural revolution. So basically that, um, those ideas were sort of perverted and bestowed upon the West to undermine the family cohesion and sort of the more communal, um, uh, mindset and tendencies.

[00:23:45] Really interesting. Just side tangent. 

[00:23:46] Alex Sachon: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I fully agree with that because I 

[00:23:49] Luke Storey: think it was, I I don't either. Yeah. It's just, it's interesting because those practices and those philosophies are, they enrich your life. I mean, they work, right? Yeah. I mean, that's the, the kind of, [00:24:00] um, I don't know.

[00:24:01] Um, I would say Vedic. Philosophy is probably the thing I'm most aligned with if I had to pick something. Yeah. And it's only made me less selfish and self-centered. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I'm able to more experience and understand the, the oneness of, of our nature. Yeah. And consciousness on a, on a bigger level and just like, I need a Porsche or something.

[00:24:24] You know what I mean? Right. But anyway, it was just, it's an interesting idea 'cause there is a side of it, I think, where you become so self-obsessed that at the exclusion of other people. 

[00:24:33] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:24:34] Luke Storey: Anyway, sorry to interrupt. 

[00:24:35] Alex Sachon: No, no, no. That's a good point. Um, but what I think, what I was trying to get to is that the, the story of the rise of the American empire because becomes important because the founding fathers and the sort of leaders who spearheaded the rise of the, the American vision, the American ideal, were trying to create a system to, uh, end this cycle of empires, which had played humanity [00:25:00] for thousands of years.

[00:25:01] I mean, if you go back and look at the end of classical civilization. Um, like, you know, Greece, Rome, Egypt, all across the world, Persia, they all fell into this, this pattern of empire and a tremendous amount of suffering. People were enslaved. These great massacres occurred, like, you know, this is back again at the, towards the end of classical civilization.

[00:25:21] And then, you know, the, the, the, you know, the, the Roman Catholic Church emerged. That was another form of empire. So there was this, this long building tendency that they were well aware of. And so there was this attempt to design a mode of government that, uh, would forestall that. But what ended up happening is that in Europe, this is a part of the, the American story that's not really told very much the economic history of America, but the, the Europe, you know, by the time of the late 18th century, Europe was basically under the control, even though there were the crowns we normally think of like the great monarchs and stuff.

[00:25:57] Um, and we know the church was powerful, but there [00:26:00] was also these dyna dynastic families that really became the impedes behind the rise of financial capitalism. And that particular model is actually a, a Ford extension of, of the Roman economic model, which is, is a, it's an expansion expansionist sort of slavery system in a way.

[00:26:18] And it's, it's a, it's a type of economics that's perfectly oriented towards empire, but this is kind of expansionist and the enthronement, and this is important of an oligarchy. So there was this oligarchy that was emerging in Europe, and then when we had the revolution, we. You know, we fought off the Crown of Britain, but the financial class in Britain, which was the heart of the British Empire for another century, I mean, but they were already enthroned in the Bank of England, which was their like hub, their private central bank.

[00:26:51] And that was established a hundred years before the American Revolution. So they kept trying to find ways into America after the [00:27:00] revolution. And the whole story of the 18 hundreds, which very few people know about, is the story of this capitalist oligarchy from Europe that was seated in Britain, trying to make inroads into America.

[00:27:11] And then with the founding of the Federal Reserve in 1913, they, they had their great victory, but this, there was many different attempts. And in the beginning, um, America was able to forest all those, but eventually through the engineering of these economic crises and these depressions, they were able to gradually gain command of the political class and corrupt the nation state from within.

[00:27:34] But when they had their victory, they didn't dismantle the nation state, they just put themselves on top of it like a parasite. Very much. Right. So we, they kept the, the, the constitution intact, but then they added their own features, which were not part of the original vision of the founding fathers. And this became the beginning of the empire because once they had that in place, they began to re-engineer American society around a military industrial complex.

[00:27:56] And that's the story of World War I and World War ii. [00:28:00] So that's the, the baseline of the situation that we live in is that we have our nation state, and we have a world of nation states, but now also we have this oligarchy and thrown in America, and they use the resources of nation states to create a global empire 

[00:28:15] Luke Storey: that's like, they go into nation states and subvert all of the resources.

[00:28:20] Rob them, rob the populace of that, then use that to control them. Yeah. And exploit them, right? 

[00:28:27] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:28] Luke Storey: Where does, um, maritime law play into this? It seems like that's a major instrument of this empire that you described. 

[00:28:37] Alex Sachon: Yeah. It was definitely a major, uh, feature of the British Empire and was one of the ways they created their economic hegemony over these different regions that they absorbed into themselves.

[00:28:49] And then America took that over. And this is a part of a category of warfare that developed where there's hard power and then there's soft power and the economic kind of [00:29:00] manipulation of countries. Uh, the cultural, the media manipulation, all these things became just as much or even more important parts of warfare as the 20th century began and progressed because the British Empire, even though they incorporated these soft power mechanisms, they were also, you know, boots on the ground, physical occupation type.

[00:29:23] When the American Empire formed, it really made a number of advancements on the British model, and they. Heavily emphasized this soft power aspect. And this was also, you know, around the time of the development of the sciences, the sort of modernization of psychology and the social sciences. And so those resources got brought into, they weaponized and brought into this campaign for domination.

[00:29:47] And so you, you saw, I mean the basic psychology became full spectrum dominance. We're gonna use every resource at our, uh, expo or at our disposal to occupy and, you know, [00:30:00] manipulate and move into and control basically any aspect of any and every aspect of society. And if you go back even at these, these early dates, late 1800, early 19 hundreds, and you go back and you hear some of the speeches and get into the psychology, it's very much a extension of the feudalist mentality that developed for a very long period of time in Europe.

[00:30:20] And it was also very present in, um, you know, the, in towards the fall of classical civilization, which is this, this idea of other otherness that the elite see themselves. And this really comes out clear now in the light of the Epstein document dump. I know the psychology is very much, we see ourselves as a cat, as categorically apart from the rest.

[00:30:41] Yeah. 

[00:30:41] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:30:42] Alex Sachon: And it's that. That mentality. It expresses itself in many different forms, but the root of it is this othering and the seeing themselves as something, it's like 

[00:30:50] Luke Storey: a 

[00:30:51] Alex Sachon: separate, 

[00:30:51] Luke Storey: it's like a classism. 

[00:30:53] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[00:30:53] Luke Storey: Kind of. Right. It's like when people think how terrible racism is, which obviously it is, but [00:31:00] I think racism does much less damage than classism, as I would describe what you're describing.

[00:31:06] Yeah. I mean, you can see this, these, these people really, they, I think it's hard for many of us to imagine that this is the case, but based on their behavior and the fact that so many of these people are just completely above the law. 

[00:31:20] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:21] Luke Storey: And we'll never see any sort of, um, justice, uh, they really believe they are above us.

[00:31:30] I mean, we even call them the elites. 

[00:31:32] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:33] Luke Storey: Because that's, that's how they see themselves. Yeah. You can kind of see in the way they posture and Yeah. I've been watching some of these depositions with, um, bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, and it's just like, it's a farce to them. 

[00:31:44] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[00:31:45] Luke Storey: And there's just like a joke, but they should 

[00:31:46] Alex Sachon: be held to account for 

[00:31:47] Luke Storey: anything.

[00:31:47] Yeah. It's a, it's a joke. Yeah. And why is it a joke to them? Because they're so arrogant. 

[00:31:52] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:52] Luke Storey: Because they know they're untouchable. 

[00:31:54] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:54] Luke Storey: It's all just, it's a dog and pony show, you know, and they know that there's like, oh yeah, okay. They act all, [00:32:00] you know, defensive or. 

[00:32:02] Alex Sachon: So I propose a theory, this is sort of a unique theory I developed in the book, which is that this is very much influenced by my, uh, background in the social sciences, the way I think of things.

[00:32:14] Um, 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm looking very much at institutions rather than just individuals. Mm-hmm. The development, the evolution of institutions. But I think one of the reasons that the, the system of elite in this empire became so heavily protected has to do with the mysteries of the US military com industrial complex and what emerged within it over the course of the late 18 hundreds and early, uh, and throughout the 20th century.

[00:32:40] So this is going to take a while to finess our way through, but 

[00:32:44] Luke Storey: we got plenty of time. 

[00:32:44] Alex Sachon: A as, as this whole story that we're talking about is developing. And, and there's an aspect of this that we haven't talked about yet, which is the role that the industrial Revolution played. Because when the founding of America happened, this was still in the old agrarian model of society.[00:33:00] 

[00:33:00] But within 50 years or a hundred years of our constitution, a completely radical transformation of society happened. And this has to do with the rise of the industrial revolution and the scientific age. It changed our psychology, it changed the way that we live. And, uh, you know, moving from rural and agrarian to urban and industrial, it changed almost everything about society and also changed the power structures because in America there emerged.

[00:33:31] A new money class that were the industrial barons, the great tycoons of the Gilded Age. And when they emerged, they did so kind of initially in partnership with the old money European aristocrats who made their money in a different kind of economic, economic model, slave trades, um, kind of maritime shipping, like the dominance over this.

[00:33:53] Whereas, you know, control over railroads, uh, steel [00:34:00] oil became the, the new kind of expression of power because that's where military expression had to go through these new means. So there was a, uh, increasingly there became, on one hand there was a co cooperation, but on another hand there was a little bit of a competition between these old money and new money groups and eventually the new money class, which in the book I've really focused around the Rockefeller Dynasty because they became really the central scions of the rise of the military industrial complex and influenced all the different ways that it expanded, um, and, and all the different avenues that it moved into, which is not just, you know, weaponry.

[00:34:39] Fuel for tanks and stuff like that. But also got moved. Moved into the medical space, moved into agriculture, and kind of created a consolidated, gigantic cartel system. System. Education. Education. Yeah. So they began to centralize a, a cartel system, you know, and they, they were also at the very foundations of the military industrial cartel.

[00:34:59] So they, they [00:35:00] had their feet in everything and they brought all those different domains into basically the military concept, military, industrial complex. And they funded the intellectuals who would ri rise and shape the policy making and strategies for the US kind of outlook, drive it towards imperialism.

[00:35:18] It wasn't just the Rockefellers, but they were probably the most single, most important faction to understand this process. So all of that was occurring. But something else that is almost entirely written outta the history books also occurred. That was, that was kind of right on the periphery of all this stuff that was happening.

[00:35:36] In some ways it interfaced with it, but some ways it was a unique emergence. And that is, while the rise of the industrial age that we know and, and the rise of the scientific age, that we know a whole different paradigm, a whole alternative paradigm of science and technology was just beginning to emerge.

[00:35:54] And this is oriented around the idea of the either, and these were a class [00:36:00] of energy and, and transportation technologies that are the basis of what today, the UFO Mystery is. So the attempt is to look at UFOs and say, that's other, that's a alien thing. We have no idea what that is, but actually there's a human side of the story that goes back into, we can track it into the 19th century.

[00:36:17] And really this idea is about the eater interface intimately with alchemy. And this is part of a very old tradition. So knowledge about this actually is very, very old. But in the rise of the industrial age and the scientific age, a new group of scientists began to probe who were interested in alchemy, uh, began to probe into the mysteries and were making discoveries.

[00:36:36] And apparently early on unlocked some of the mysteries of anti-gravity. And, um, and actually this idea of the ether. So the ether is the idea that space, it stands opposed to Einstein in physics, which treats space as like basically a neutral vacuum. But the, the old concept of the ether is that space is actually this dynamic [00:37:00] field.

[00:37:00] It's the basis of consciousness. It's the basis of mind, but it's also the basis of energy and form and that you can interface with this etheric field by means of electromagnetism. And so, you know, the, the body also, this opens the door to a understanding of like the subtle body energy dynamics stuff that vedic he healing and Taoist healing modalities draw upon.

[00:37:22] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:23] Alex Sachon: This idea that everything interfaces with this field. 

[00:37:25] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:37:26] Alex Sachon: This seething field of energy and, and life. And it's really like the, you know, in ancient philosophies, it was also treated as the womb. And all, all forms that exist are within this field. It's a unified field, so everything interfaces it with it intimately.

[00:37:42] It's the common mother of all things. So there were, so there was this emergence of awareness and experimentation. And from what I've been, what I was able to gather from the material that's available, which is not a ton, but we can piece together some of this. It seems that [00:38:00] numerous individuals or numerous, numerous groups were making inroads into this.

[00:38:04] It wasn't just one person. Now Tesla would become kind of the spokesman for this. And when we think of Tesla, we think of his breakthrough ideas. He was dealing explicitly with this, with the concept of the either. 

[00:38:14] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:15] Alex Sachon: But he, he certainly wasn't the only one. And actually physics in general, the either was like the foundational principle, which within which all of the early theories that are modern physics, which denies the either are actually based upon like the early pioneers were dealing with this concept.

[00:38:31] But right around the turn of the century, it like disappear. You can track it, it begins to incrementally disappear. It gets replaced with Einstein, it gets replaced with, 

[00:38:40] Luke Storey: oh, interesting. 

[00:38:41] Alex Sachon: Um, quantum mechanics stuff that we know now a hundred years later, we know, never went anywhere really. So in the rise of the military industrial complex, which eventually is associated with the oligarchy and the rise of this empire, in my thinking, the rise of the oligarchy empire, it didn't fully assimilate with these other ideas because when we look [00:39:00] at what the beliefs of the Rockefellers and such were.

[00:39:02] They're materialists, right? They have no concept of the either. And, and we also know that the, that the technologies and ideas that they used to grow their empire were not based on these ideas. So these are, this is like a paradigm altering, 180 shift in pers perspective type type of development. Uh, this, this, these ideas about the either, so there was this parallel emergence in the, in the empire, uh, rise of empire.

[00:39:25] There was the outward aspect, which is the oligarchy and you know, the Rockefellers and such. But in the shadows of that, there was this parallel development, which I try to track in the book of this alternate paradigm and what happened to it and why did it disappear and, you know, what institution emerged to take control of it and to, to be the sort of custodian of the future of it.

[00:39:47] And so that's what I spent a lot of the book working. I, so the first third of the book, I, I tell the conventional rise of the American Empire, and in the second part of the book, I go back. And I go and try to tell this other story about the 

[00:39:59] Luke Storey: rise 

[00:39:59] Alex Sachon: that you, 

[00:39:59] Luke Storey: [00:40:00] so this, so this is the metaphysical esoteric sciences mm-hmm.

[00:40:06] Knowledge base that was sort of running parallel to the 

[00:40:11] Alex Sachon: materialistic. 

[00:40:11] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:40:12] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[00:40:12] Luke Storey: Okay. Where does the cultism and mysticism start to intersect with the military industrial conflicts? Where does, um, deeper layers of, um, psychology start to interface in terms of, um, psychological warfare? 

[00:40:32] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:32] Luke Storey: Right.

[00:40:32] Because it seems like, I mean, this might be, we, I might be jumping ahead in this story. Mm-hmm. You know, I don't know the forties or fifties or whenever it was, but there seems to be a point at which these powers that be really started to understand the human mind. Right. And how to control vast numbers of people through manipulation.

[00:40:57] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:40:58] Luke Storey: You know, do, do you think that is [00:41:00] sort of, has its roots in the metaphysical and esoteric and started to become more ingrained? 'cause you're describing kind of, there's this parallel. Was there a point at which, oh, they're like, oh shit, we can merge these. 

[00:41:12] Alex Sachon: I think what we're going through today is the beginning of the process of that merging, but I think that they've been.

[00:41:18] They've been parallel to each other. The one's been out, like think of it outer and inner, like the, and they don't, and they don't speak to each other. So the, when I think of the military industrial complex, I see it as this, uh, polarized entity rather than just one unique, one solid thing. And, and the dynamics I try to navigate in the book is the idea that the, the institution that emerged to take charge of this paradigm, this etheric energy paradigm, that its mandate was to keep itself secret, not just from the, uh, the general public, but even more importantly from this emergent oligarchy.

[00:41:57] Luke Storey: Oh, 

[00:41:57] Alex Sachon: interesting. Okay. 'cause we, we know that oligarchy [00:42:00] never had access to it. 'cause they never used it. And they don't, you go into their documents, they don't have any awareness of it. It's all materialistic. So the kind of analogy I I, I draw on is that, you know, this, this oligarchy and their ambitions for, for World Empire that was already emerging on its own path.

[00:42:17] And when I go back and try to psychoanalyze what the mindset would be among whatever institution emerged to take, to consolidate this paradigm and to kind of keep it categorically separate from the rest of civilization and to promote these materialistic, scientific ideas in their place, that they also have their own when they were thinking.

[00:42:37] Um, because when, when you think about what the possibilities are of this technology, a lot of people say it's free energy. It could be, you know, used for which it could, but it's also. Extremely dangerous in the sense that the weaponization of this could be not only catastrophic in terms of putting everybody in a slave system to whoever controls this, but really you could destroy the whole earth.

[00:42:59] You [00:43:00] know, we're talking about amplifying magnetic waves. I mean, you could, you could literally destroy life, uh, you know, in a biblical, horrible episode. And, and Tesla talks about this and, and some of the writings that he had, some of the articles he put out in the New York Times later in his life and talked about the dangers and the potentials of it.

[00:43:19] So I think that this would've been realized early on this, this fact. And another thing about to start to weaponize it or to use it, you don't need big nuclear enrichment facilities that only a few nations can put together. It's like an individual could do a lot of damage on their own, just setting up something in their laboratory where you're amplifying different electromagnetic waves and, and so, so it's an existential god-like power that was being discovered.

[00:43:47] And like I said, this, this category of knowledge was, is, is long known in ancient history, but it was always preserved under an institution, which tradition was called the mystery schools. And you there was strict requirements to gain access to it for the very [00:44:00] reasons that were talking about the, the dangers and the potentials of it.

[00:44:03] So, and, and kind of going back and looking at what the psychology might've been, it was to always keep the, keep it separate and secret from the, this emerging empire, which was already on its own momentum. Uh, but this group, this institution that emerged, would've had a similar need to create a global civilization that could, uh, that had certain features added to it that could both, um, allow this energy to be used for the betterment of mankind, the transformation of man of civilization, for also to protect it from against misuse.

[00:44:36] So, uh, so in my mind, that's this idea is the only real satisfactory way to explain why things played out the way they did. Because essentially the dynamic that emerged is that this, this other group, which we know very little about, but I paused that it existed. And there's another reason I I point to his existence that we haven't talked about, which is the airship mysteries of the 18 hundreds, which we can go into.

[00:44:59] I'm thinking 

[00:44:59] Luke Storey: about that. 

[00:44:59] Alex Sachon: [00:45:00] So that's another aspect 

[00:45:01] Luke Storey: of it. That's where I was starting to think the, the tar, you know? 

[00:45:03] Alex Sachon: Yeah. I mean, I don't deal with the tar stuff. It's, it's not part of my research. Yeah. But, but some similar, some ideas that are dealt with in that theory are do interface with Yeah. But this, this airship mystery in the 18 hundreds is an intimate part of this 

[00:45:15] Luke Storey: story.

[00:45:15] One thing that that came to mind, and I'm no expert on, on that topic, but it, there is some really compelling evidence when you see, um, you know, buildings that were so sophisticated mm-hmm. They couldn't have been built by, you know, farmers or whatever. Right, right. It seems like there was a lot of, um. You know, we'll probably never know the truth, but there was a lot of, um, infrastructure that was discovered and then attributed to the people that discovered it.

[00:45:42] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:45:43] Luke Storey: But it was already there kind of thing. Right. But what, what brought that to mind when you were speaking was, um, in a lot of this research, Dell, um, allude to these, um, you know, free energy devices like that there, that these older [00:46:00] buildings were powered by something other than electricity. And there were, there were, um, forms of energy other than oil and electricity mm-hmm.

[00:46:08] That were being used harnessed from the ether. And that at some point someone came in and said, we, we can't let this get out 'cause it's all free. Right. 

[00:46:17] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:46:18] Luke Storey: In order to be able to, um, enrich themselves, they needed, um, resources that at least seem to be, um, of limited supply. 

[00:46:28] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[00:46:28] Luke Storey: You know what I mean?

[00:46:30] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Well I think the dynamic you're describing definitely applies to what was happening around the t of the century and the, and the psychology of, of what happened. But I think that, um, so anyway, uh, right around the turn of the century, we find, we see, we. The, there had been for a, a few decades leading up to the nine to 1900, the, uh, systematic emergence of this flying airship technology.

[00:46:54] And there were citing the news, hundreds of newspaper reports that described these. And that's, that's one application of [00:47:00] this etheric energy paradigm and is certainly the predecessor to the modern UFO. But what happened around the 20th century is that, that like seemingly overnight, those airship sightings disappeared, which tells me there was consolidated together and they were sort of brought underground.

[00:47:14] Luke Storey: Right? 

[00:47:14] Alex Sachon: And then around the same time, you see the disappearance of the etheric energy paradigm from mainstream textbooks and replaced with Einstein. So there was clearly a move to keep this consolidated, but all this was happening under the nose of people like the Rockefellers and JP Morgan, although he had some interface with it through Tesla.

[00:47:31] But there's no evidence to suggest that they took control of it. And were using it, it seems to have been kept separate by something that was now riding in the shadows or the coattails of this imperial force that was emerging in America. 'cause they, you know, if you, particularly, if you go back and look at what the geopolitical environment was at that era, this was a time of great competing empires.

[00:47:54] You had the British Empire, you had the ascendant German empire. There was a threat of Russia as an empire. And then you had [00:48:00] America responding to that environment with this rise of this new oligarchy. They had their own ambitions. So everybody was sort of out for. The Elise behind all these different areas, were out for their own, to establish their own imperium.

[00:48:13] So this was an age of warring empires. This is a age of great wars, 

[00:48:16] Luke Storey: right? 

[00:48:16] Alex Sachon: And, um, and certainly everything was building up to World War I. So in this environment, if the cat was let out of the bag regarding this technology and it was able to be weaponized and used, that would've been, I mean, it, it would've been a, an apocalypse, you know?

[00:48:33] Right. Even, even at this early point. But at this point, it's, it's also very clear from these early sightings that this was a human project. Like it was human beings. It wasn't aliens. It was, it was humans. It was secret societies. It was a different paradigm of knowledge that people were working with that was responsible for the development of things like anti-gravity or ex, you know, the extremely fast speeds that we see, uh, with UFOs.

[00:48:56] So all this stuff can actually be explained with this mysterious part of human [00:49:00] history that has been totally forgotten and or written out of books. But we can now piece start piecing together.

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[00:50:41] Luke Storey: So interesting. I, you also reminded me of this, um, phenomenon of vanilla skies. Have you looked into this? 

[00:50:50] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:51] Luke Storey: So in, you know, in, in much of this old photography, when you're seeing the Brooklyn Bridge supposedly being built and no one's working, and you know, there's, [00:51:00] there are so many, uh, anomalies when you start looking at especially, um, infrastructure.

[00:51:05] And so when you're looking at these old capital buildings, um, and these, uh, yeah, just old structures being built, right. Construction going on, they like photoshopped all the clouds and everything out of the sky. It's the called vanilla sky. Mm. If you look at all these old photos, it's like the sky looks like it's overexposed.

[00:51:26] Alex Sachon: Mm. 

[00:51:26] Luke Storey: But yet at the same time, you know, our cameras were sophisticated enough where you could have captured the sky and a building Right. Within a frame. Right. So the, the theory here is that there was something in the sky 

[00:51:40] Alex Sachon: Mm. 

[00:51:41] Luke Storey: That they didn't want to show. 

[00:51:44] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[00:51:44] Luke Storey: Which many people, um, guess to be these airships or other phenomenon or technologies that you're describing.

[00:51:52] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[00:51:52] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? Uh. Things on top of the buildings that are harnessing free energy, all, all this kind of stuff. Right? 

[00:51:58] Alex Sachon: Yeah. I mean, I can't speak, [00:52:00] I'm, I'm kind of innately suspicious of about that is it seems to be bringing a lot of things that are true and then putting in a fact pattern that leaves out important details.

[00:52:08] Like, you know, so, you know, a big part of my background and that I bring into this book is, is partly it's a work of sociology and a work of history, but there's also a lot of philosophy in it. But the whole story of, of esoteric kind of philosophy and the descent of that from classical civilization to today through the Middle Ages, can explain a lot of, of the architecture that you're describing.

[00:52:31] You know, the, the, the history, deep history of masonry and, and the ideas that they're working with. Like, they certainly, they would've, uh, been aware of this paradigm. And if you look at the ancient, the great ancient cathedrals and the temples of classical civilization, they, they feature the same type of sacred geometry in them.

[00:52:49] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:52:50] Alex Sachon: That. Is designed to interface with this field, but it's not just a field of free energy, uh, the free energy part, like economically, it's free, you could say. [00:53:00] But to say that there's no requirements in using it. This is really spirit energy and, and to misuse this, uh, would bring a, brings a great calamity.

[00:53:11] Like if you were to try to, so the story really the stories of the fall of Atlantis has to do with the misuse of this kind of resource, not just as an energy system, but, you know, this was a day also Atlantis is associated with a time of, of great psychics, uh, sort of sorcerer types. Mm-hmm. Priest magicians and, and their sort of manipulation of this field.

[00:53:34] Uh, as part of their dec psychological decline, they began to misuse this knowledge, which originally they was used properly in the heyday. 

[00:53:42] Luke Storey: Right. 

[00:53:43] Alex Sachon: But, um, that the, the misuse, it was actually what brought the cataclysm, the cataclysm that destroyed Atlanta. As you go back to Plato's teaching, it wasn't a random catastrophe, it was a karmic response.

[00:53:55] It was bred from their own corruption, kind 

[00:53:56] Luke Storey: of an Adam and Eve type situation. Yeah. The cast, 

[00:53:59] Alex Sachon: yeah. Cast [00:54:00] down. 

[00:54:00] Luke Storey: So with this etheric realm and you know, an understanding of alchemy in these things, based on your research, how much of it do you think was those who had an understanding of it, trying to protect it and, and sustain it without it being corrupted or misused versus.

[00:54:20] The industrialist, the materialist, the baron's coming in and going. We don't want anyone to know about this because it's too empowering, and they wouldn't be able to consolidate control over it because it's something that's harder to control than railways and automobiles and munitions and things. 

[00:54:35] Alex Sachon: Yeah.

[00:54:36] I think it's the former rather than the latter, 

[00:54:38] Luke Storey: really. 

[00:54:39] Alex Sachon: Again, that's 

[00:54:39] Luke Storey: kind of encouraging 

[00:54:40] Alex Sachon: because I, I don't, I don't see any, I don't see evidence, I don't see anything that points me to the fact that they had knowledge of it, but they we're suppressing it terms about the, what we consider the ruling elite.

[00:54:50] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:50] Alex Sachon: Um, there are other things that factor in to my conclusion about that. I mean, one of 'em is that this category of not, and now we're opening up [00:55:00] a kind of a big door here, but this, this category of knowledge has always been tr traditionally was always under the protection of the mystery schools, which are, if you go back and look at the origin of the mystery schools, go back to tribal civilization.

[00:55:13] The mystery schools originate in the shamanistic, basically the, the medicine men, the pre mm-hmm. The earliest priesthoods. But like I said, it's a, it's a pattern of knowledge that is developed from inward, an inward experience and, and the traditional esoteric philosophy. It's what you're, what's your, the type of knowledge that's preserved there.

[00:55:35] The sacred arcane is, has to do with the, the, the law, the spirit laws of nature, the spirit laws of the solar system, the cosmos that we exist in, the laws that must be obeyed. 'cause if you violate them, you remove yourself from the life energy, the flow of life energy moves according to this law. So if you remove yourself from this, then you physically cut yourself off from this source energy.

[00:55:58] And then inevitably that's, you bring [00:56:00] your own decline. So there's this, there's this cosmic justice, uh, Uhhuh ultimate cosmic justice Uhhuh. So the custodians of this, if you also look at what's taught, this is the, it's, it's this ideas about, um, the earth being a, a great temple of initiation for souls to come into learn through experience, gain, grow in wisdom.

[00:56:21] And there's this, certainly this idea of reincarnation. So, so in this view, the earth is a developmental system of consciousness. And this whole story that we're going through, this whole saga is really, it's almost like Westworld. You ever see the show Westworld? No, 

[00:56:36] Luke Storey: I haven't. 

[00:56:37] Alex Sachon: It's this, it's a, it's basically a platform of experience.

[00:56:40] Luke Storey: I mean, my worldview is definitely centered around what you described. 

[00:56:45] Alex Sachon: Yeah. So this is the teaching. 

[00:56:46] Luke Storey: It's the only way I can make sense. 

[00:56:47] Alex Sachon: Yeah. It's the only way to make sense of it. 

[00:56:49] Luke Storey: I mean, I would have a major. Existential crisis without that as kind of, you know, that's what keeps me going. Right? It's like there's a purpose to this, right?

[00:56:59] Yeah. 

[00:56:59] Alex Sachon: Then there is a [00:57:00] purpose, 

[00:57:00] Luke Storey: and if so, what, what is that? And 

[00:57:01] Alex Sachon: another thing, this whole discussion that we're talking about, this whole historical narrative, I book in it, uh, in the book, 

[00:57:07] Luke Storey: uh, by the way. Yeah. I, I wanted to mention, uh, I, this first time I've seen your book, so I'm looking forward to reading it.

[00:57:14] It's called The Coming World Nation. Why Global Government Is Why, why Global, global Government is Inevitable, 

[00:57:22] Alex Sachon: right? 

[00:57:22] Luke Storey: That's funny. I wish I would've read the, the title before we sat down. 'cause now I have a bunch of other questions. But, uh, for you listeners and watchers, you can find, uh, everything about Alex and his book at luke story.com/wisdom, and that'll be clickable in the show description.

[00:57:40] Yeah. 

[00:57:40] And 

[00:57:40] Alex Sachon: these are all available on Amazon too. 

[00:57:42] Luke Storey: Oh, cool. Cool. Yeah. Okay, great. 

[00:57:43] Alex Sachon: And the tradition of esoteric philosophy, this knowledge, the sacred arcane about, about the laws of nature Yeah. Existence is it wasn't invented by man, it was bestowed by man through the, from the God, so to speak, or the higher spiritual powers that are in control of the, the development of this [00:58:00] world.

[00:58:00] Yeah. And all of this ultimately consolidates into the idea of one God. Moving inward into itself for its own psych. Great cycle of experiments, uh, experience. And what we consider reality is that process got what we consider history is the story of the development of this me, this great meditation taking place within the mind of God.

[00:58:19] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[00:58:19] Alex Sachon: And all of this is one, this introduces the idea of cycles. This is one great cycle of existence, and there's sub cycles, many sub cycles. And so this idea of cycles becomes very important. And in, in my book, this historical narrative that we're talking about, about, you know, the past several thousand years of history, but really focused on the book focuses around America, the Story of America, uh, and the rise of the American Empire.

[00:58:42] But all of this, uh, in these introduction, conclusion sections, I frame it around this idea of time cycles and that, uh, you know, the way things have played out and the timing of it and the themes involved with it are not arbitrary at all. And actually, there's, so today we're sitting right on, on the cusp of so many great transformations in the [00:59:00] world.

[00:59:00] And in the book, I, I just focus on th I focus on three, but you can actually ex, um, extend out and examine more. But I say we're mo we're moving from nation states to global government, which has been a process. But that's kind of the trend. And then we're moving from capitalism to technocracy, which a different economic paradigm.

[00:59:17] And the logic behind that move has to do with this. The revelation of this etheric energy paradigm oh, really is gonna be the end of capitalism and the, and rises of a new, the mood of technocracy. The way that people look at it now are, you know, they're not factoring this, this other side of it, so they can only see the negative polarity of that shift, which certainly is, there could be the ultimate instrument of control, but all the elements of technocracy are also completely necessary to put, to use this energy resource.

[00:59:44] 'cause techno technocracy is not a money based system. Ultimately it's an energy based economy. And so it's, it's, it's different on every level than the capital. Does capitalist model, 

[00:59:54] Luke Storey: how does cryptocurrency play into that? Or does it? 

[00:59:57] Alex Sachon: It does, but the cryptocurrency is sort of the, [01:00:00] a stepping stone into this.

[01:00:02] So it's cryptocurrency is, is a move out of conventional money into digital currency. And there's different, been different expressions of it, but there's, you know, that's the trend that cryptocurrency is, is what the fact that it's been having. But, so eventually that kind of move that it's facilitating into the digitization of things that can then be.

[01:00:26] Set the stage to be used in the alternative way, which would be this energy thing that, 

[01:00:31] Luke Storey: right. Like if I wanted to Venmo you a hundred bucks, I could just go B. 

[01:00:35] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:00:37] Luke Storey: Maybe just throw it out on the EERs, you know, the crypto thing I know very little about, but, um, to me it doesn't feel like that much of a jump from where we are now.

[01:00:46] Mm-hmm. I mean, since, at least in this country, since 1933 when the gold was all removed from the system, I mean, there is no money even Right. As it's defined in law. Right. Money is gold and silver. Right. 

[01:00:58] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:00:58] Luke Storey: So that's gone. 

[01:00:59] Alex Sachon: [01:01:00] Yeah. 

[01:01:00] Luke Storey: Um, ostensibly, and what was put in it place was this securitization of our future labor, basically.

[01:01:09] Right. Of every birth certificate that creates this entity, you know, this straw man. 

[01:01:14] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:14] Luke Storey: And that's kind of what all of the debt is riding on. 

[01:01:17] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:18] Luke Storey: But at a certain point that that's gotta hit its natural conclusion. What happens after that? But to me, we're already using cryptocurrency with fiat. I mean, it's, it's already fake.

[01:01:29] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:01:29] Luke Storey: I mean, maybe 

[01:01:30] Alex Sachon: we can see you can just build incrementally the, the stages towards the shift. But like I was saying, all these stages when you map it out in terms of cycles and you look at the key PowerPoints in the, in the cycles and you can get astrological and really break it down in a lot of detail.

[01:01:43] Like you could, it all makes sense. It's all moving towards something. And, um. And so, so anyway, the ultimately, my opinion is that this, the cryptocurrency is just one of many things that are moving towards this shift from capitalism to technocracy. Um, [01:02:00] and then the third thing I say is this, uh, emergence of this breakthrough, the, the emergence and the open utilization in society of this new paradigm of energy, which the UFO mystery as it's unfolding is actually bringing us into this, um, this new, opening us up to this new paradigm of the either, so the UFO is primarily a symbolic device to draw us a psychologically into this new era.

[01:02:27] Luke Storey: So is the, is the disclosure that seems inevitable, um, intentional from your perspective? And is it serving the purpose of bringing in this 

[01:02:41] Alex Sachon: Yeah, 

[01:02:41] Luke Storey: this next 

[01:02:42] Alex Sachon: I I, yeah, for sure. Um, but an interesting thing about the the UFO phenomenon is that it hits different aspects of society in different ways. So normally when we think about it, the coverup and the, you know, the lies and stuff associated the misinformation, we normally think about it as targeted entirely [01:03:00] towards the public.

[01:03:00] But in, in my reading of it, a lot of it is this. We think about the, earlier we talked about the polarization of the military industrial complex, a lot of the, um. The social engineering aspect of the UFO mystery is, it breeds a sense of crisis within the outer form of the military industrial complex, which perceives this phenomena as probably they do perceive it as alien.

[01:03:23] Yeah. Or they don't know what it's coming from. 

[01:03:25] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[01:03:25] Alex Sachon: Like I believe that a lot of the disclosure movement now is people from the government coming out and saying, we are aware of this alien presence. But actually that whole story conceals this deeper mystery, which the outer aspect of military industrial comics isn't even aware of this underground black projects like super deep stuff that people like Steven Greer talk about, even though he's on board with the alien explanation, which I'm not, he, uh, but he's pointing to something that's true, which is like the nature of the military industrial complex is secrecy and compartmentalization, and the underbelly of it is super concealed and it's mostly underground out of sight, [01:04:00] and it's protected by all these different layers of information control.

[01:04:04] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting thing about the, uh, the disclosure movement, for lack of a better term, when it comes to the overall position of the military and the government. It's, it's a threat by default, which is interesting to me. It seems like their at least stated motive to start to open up about this is that like, Hey, we, you know, we gotta protect our, our, our people, our country, right?

[01:04:37] Mm-hmm. When it's, it's interesting to me because. I don't know. We have no, there's no more evidence that these entities or whatever they are, uh, people that aren't human from wherever they come from are against us. 

[01:04:52] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:04:52] Luke Storey: You know, it's, there's no real evidence that they're for us. But it seems to me that if they, you know, [01:05:00] exist as we believe them to exist with however little information we have, that if they were against us, we would've already been annihilated.

[01:05:06] Right. 

[01:05:07] Alex Sachon: And why do they present themselves? Always just outta reach Yeah. Of grasping. That's what I'm saying. It's, yeah. Yeah. Primarily, primarily a symbolic device to draw us to, to, basically it's an instrument of social and engineering is how I talk about it in the book. 

[01:05:19] Luke Storey: Okay. 

[01:05:20] Alex Sachon: And that's how it's used. But the engineering is not just for the outer public.

[01:05:24] It is, I think even more so for the military industrial complex because it's, by keeping them in a state of crisis, it allows, uh, a type of subtle engineering to be, to take place and their behavior and their structures and everything to be moving in a certain direction without revealing the fact that there is this.

[01:05:43] Underbelly that's actually in order to keep itself secret and keep the mysteries of the technology that holds secret from the outer aspect of the military industrial complex, it's using the UFO to prod them to make the changes that they want to, they need them to make. Oh, interesting. Because, like I said, [01:06:00] in order for this technology and this energy paradigm to ever come out openly, there are certain requirements.

[01:06:05] You need a global civilization, you need a information protection mechanism. You know, you need, uh, the internet of things to be put into place. So all these things are requirements, but at the same time, until it's fully on board and ready to be implemented, you have to maintain that secrecy, which makes it challenging.

[01:06:23] How do you get your goal when you can't express yourself? You have to ride in the coattails of this outer aspect of the empire, and, but at the same time, you have to prod and manipulate it to go in a certain direction. So what it, what that ends up doing is it ends up keeping civil, uh, ends up keeping civilization in this state where.

[01:06:41] For national security reasons, the of this deeper group for their own security interests. You have to basically empower this oligarchical class, which has developed through time and dismantle all the safeguards or help the dismantling of the safeguards that, uh, were designed to prevent [01:07:00] the rise of this group.

[01:07:00] 'cause you actually need them to create the global empire and, and get right to the point right at the cusp when they think they're gonna consolidate their global hegemony. Then you can move in and pull the rug. Then you pull the rug and you can implement your system. That's sort of the theory I have.

[01:07:14] Luke Storey: Wow. Dude, you're a big thinker. This is such a fun conversation. 

[01:07:19] Alex Sachon: But the thing is that I've 

[01:07:20] never 

[01:07:20] Luke Storey: thought 

[01:07:21] Alex Sachon: about 

[01:07:21] Luke Storey: things 

[01:07:22] Alex Sachon: this same as context of this is the idea of time cycles 'cause 

[01:07:25] Luke Storey: mm-hmm. 

[01:07:26] Alex Sachon: In the cycle of the Great, alright, so there's different ways you can measure time cycles and there are many different ones that are overlapping.

[01:07:32] But we know from studies of the philosophy of astrology things that were emphasized by all the great thinkers, including Plato. There, there's this i, this idea of the great year is one of these master time cycles is a 25,000 year time cycle and you measure it. There's an objective measurement of it, which is the amount of time it takes for one complete circle of the earth's north, uh, north celestial pole.

[01:07:54] It, it's not, uh, stagnant. You know, the earth rotates around a, uh, a pole, but that pole itself is [01:08:00] not fixed. It actually has its own circuit, circuit ambulation. And so, uh, that cycle is actually a 25,000 year cycle. And that's the basis of the Zoia age, the 12 zoia ages, and each one's 2,160 years, like the age of Pisces, which we're now in the age of Aquarius.

[01:08:17] So when you add up in all those 12 cycles, that's that 25,000 year cycle. And what's interesting, if you cut that cycle in half, that's 12,000 years. So 12,000 years from today is the date that Plato gives for the seeking of Atlantis. But also people like Graham Hancock and Reynold Carlson give for the end of the younger Dries climatic period in which there was, there what literally was a great deluge.

[01:08:41] And so there was a great resetting of the earth, but it just goes to show you these events aren't arbitrary. They're part of this great cosmic system of development. Yeah. They're part of this universal mind has this master pattern and all things are developing according to it. So I, so today we're exactly one half cycle [01:09:00] away.

[01:09:00] And in the book I have this, I developed this theme of the, the Atlantian archetype is sort of re expressing itself in this new context of our civilization today. And many of the themes of the downfall of the Atlantian Empire, or the rise and fall of it are expressed not only in the rise, the am just the American empire, but in the rise of every empire of the, of the past, which are sort of developing and growing.

[01:09:21] And America as the global empire is sort of the final stage of this in, in many ways is, is expressing this Atlassian archetype, including the corruption of this great, of this leadership class. You know, the misuse of technology, uh, which not, not just the Ethereum energy technology, but literally even the, the mainstream technology, uh, science and technology.

[01:09:40] We have the weaponization of that when it should be used for the betterment of mankind. It's used for their enslavement. These are all themes that are all go back into the mythology of this previous cycle of existence. 

[01:09:50] Luke Storey: What a trip. Something that I find interesting in terms of, um, the symbolism and meaning around [01:10:00] cycles of time and dates is how the sort of occult occultist.

[01:10:11] Factions of government and institutions, secret societies and so on, very obviously do things on certain dates. 

[01:10:20] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:21] Luke Storey: Right? I mean, it's always a 33, right? I mean, it's like, dude, at a certain point just go, okay guys, you know, I mean, it seems like they're very aware of, you know, the impact of doing things on certain dates and on certain schedules, and they're planning things decades, maybe even centuries in some cases ahead, right?

[01:10:44] Mm-hmm. They're, they're, they're very fixated on dates, times, things like that. 

[01:10:50] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Well, there's, there's two aspects to this, and the, and the, and the idea of you and this, 

[01:10:55] Luke Storey: I mean, even like, uh, 19 13, 19 33, I mean, some of these dates were that like [01:11:00] change the face of, you know, civilizations, right? Are seem to be, they have kind of a element to them.

[01:11:09] Alex Sachon: Well, one thing that comes up when you study the philosophy of astrology, which is fundamentally based on this idea of cycles, is that there are these set points, these like PowerPoints which are marked by great conjunctions of planets, or marked by this, the sun moving zodiac signs, or there's different ways that you can market, but there are these great PowerPoints and.

[01:11:33] They're all gonna express themselves no matter what. Now, what we have, we don't have control over whether, whether they are gonna be expressed these PowerPoints in time. What we have an ability to change is how do we respond to these or do we gain an awareness of them? And that actually one of the early earliest publications I did when I first started writing stuff and putting stuff out after a long period of working on stuff, but never publishing anything.

[01:11:56] In 2021, late fall 2021, I, [01:12:00] I, uh, did a publication, which I wanna redo and put on Amazon. It's not really available anywhere other than my substack right now. I have a PDF of it. But it was a publication that focused on Jungian philosophy, kind of overviewing the basis of Carl Young's philosophy. And, um, a guy who was a, a subsequent, uh, scholar in that same depth.

[01:12:19] Psychology tradit named Stanoff gr 

[01:12:21] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:12:22] Alex Sachon: If you, 

[01:12:23] Luke Storey: yeah. You remember aware? Oh, yeah, yeah. I tried to, I almost tracked him down for an interview years ago. He was doing, um, a workshop up at eSalon, and I was like, trying, you know, he's an older guy. I don't know how old he is now. 90 or something. 

[01:12:35] Alex Sachon: Yeah, he's very old now.

[01:12:36] I was 

[01:12:36] Luke Storey: like, oh man. But anyway, yeah. 

[01:12:38] Alex Sachon: So I used those two thinkers as the basis and their ideas about the collective unconscious. And, but both of 'em were also very heavily looking at astrology and how the, the, the dynamics of the emotions of the planets, they're focused on the planets, how they, um, interface with this idea of the.

[01:12:58] Collective unconscious and how that inter Oh wow. How [01:13:00] that interfaces with each of us. I'll give you, I'll send you a copy of this. Oh, I didn't know that. And, um, well, one of the most important things that Stan Ooph gr uncovered in his research, this is, this is something that only in the past 10 years, like the very end of his life, he started writing about this.

[01:13:14] But he, um, he did this amazing experiment. Well, you know, that, so he became, for anybody who doesn't know, he followed in the footsteps of young and, but he used, um, psychological analysis with psychedelic experiences as his inroads into studying the mind. And so he, he had a backlog of like, literally thousands of cases of like clinical, uh, psychedelic experiences that people had where in a variety of settings.

[01:13:44] And not all of 'em were actually with psychedelic drugs. Some of it was through like breath work and these different modalities, but they're all targeted around creating a mystical, non-ordinary experience of consciousness. And in these clinical settings, his, his assistants would record in detail [01:14:00] the contents of what people experienced.

[01:14:02] And then towards the end of his life, he did this. I think he, uh, partnered with a guy named Richard Tarus, and they went back over that data set and they did horoscopes for each of these people. And they said, what were the planetary alignments? Oh 

[01:14:17] Luke Storey: wow. 

[01:14:17] Alex Sachon: For the different people and their experience, and they.

[01:14:20] Uh, and they align exactly with what the archetypes of these planets are. What, so I took that I, I interviewed, so I overviewed that in this, in the publication I did, which was about 50 pages. And um, and then I took that and I looked at co what, what was happening during the COVID time. 'cause it was right in the thick of all that.

[01:14:37] And in 2020 there was this like, huge alignment that people were, were looking for, looking towards, that was gonna be having for a long time. It was, uh, a triple conjunction of Pluto, Saturn, and Jupiter, which are major planets and astrology. But if you look at the archetypal themes that come out during that alignment with the [01:15:00] chemistry of these three planets are, is very heavily involved with the servicing of the shadow, like the rise of shadow complex and the expression of that.

[01:15:07] And then there's, there's lots of different ways that, that you can track, like how that would express itself. Uh, and lo and behold, when you look at what the climate was psychologically during 2020, the mania that set in mm-hmm. And everything, it's like perfectly aligned with that archetype. Whoa. Which goes to show you that these time cycles, they're going to release their energies.

[01:15:27] And if you're completely unconscious and oblivious, it's gonna possess you and cause a, a type of mania. Yeah. But if you are aware of it, then you can, that same power that's being released, you can, uh, assimilate it in an entirely different way. 

[01:15:40] Luke Storey: So it's. There's a neutrality in the nature of the power.

[01:15:45] Mm-hmm. Like looking at these time cycles or as astr events. Right. So say the power is the bee that we're brewing up this fake pandemic for however many years they were planning it, they were like, we're doing it in 2020. And they knew ahead of time, [01:16:00] probably with some awareness that the energies were going to be available 

[01:16:04] Alex Sachon: for, or they may not have been awareness, but they couldn't help but be drawn towards this.

[01:16:07] Okay. Okay. PowerPoint. Because it, because that is it, because it's in the collective unconscious. It acts upon everybody simultaneously. It draws them into this thing. And Young had a really interesting, uh, analysis where he didn't get into the astrology of this, but he did psychoanalyze World War ii and the publication is called The Fight With the Shadow.

[01:16:25] And it's all about how these archetypes, he could, he could tell them in his psychoanalysis with German patients how there was something happening within that population that this archetype was activating within them. And it was drawing them into this type of psychological hurricane almost that became, you know, the Third Reich.

[01:16:42] But it was setting, it was brewing the conditions of it. So it, you don't have to be, for it to have its effect, you don't have to be aware of it at all. Right, 

[01:16:51] Luke Storey: right. 

[01:16:51] Alex Sachon: And, and the fact that it happens on a certain date is a type of like, it's like it's a type of cosmic like synchronicity and, and it creates these, [01:17:00] these.

[01:17:00] These type of events. So, so it's an archetype and it can express like positive and negative polarity. But for, for humans, our, our growth, our evolution requires us to participate in nature's processes. Mm-hmm. Like the lower forms of kingdom, kingdoms of nature, they're evolved without their conscious participation.

[01:17:20] But mankind has to consciously participate in his evolution. So until we do that, we will express the negative aspect of the archetype. We don't, we won't naturally express the positive ex. So 

[01:17:30] Luke Storey: because there's no intentionality around what direction we're going to be swayed at these times of great change.

[01:17:38] Mm-hmm. It's so funny that you brought this up, man. Just speaking of synchronicity and collective consciousness, I've never been one that's followed astrology. I never know what the moon's doing. You know Equinox? Mm-hmm. Solar ec eclipses, like I'm clueless, right? Just not my thing. My wife's much more adept, but for some reason, um, I drove home from friends last from cows [01:18:00] where you were a few hours before actually.

[01:18:02] And I was driving home and the moon was really low in the sky and it was just bright and yellow and huge. And I was like, wow, that's. Whatever's going on there is powerful. Even to the point where I got home and I was like, honey, come upstairs. Look at the moon. She's like, yeah, I know. It's the whatever moon tonight.

[01:18:15] Yeah. Of course. She knew. And I said to her as we walked downstairs, I said, you know what? I just had the idea. I think we should really start tracking these celestial events, they're meaningful, and the equinoxes and things like that, and start putting together small gatherings, you know mm-hmm. Of our, of our close friends, and just using those as an opportunity to come together mm-hmm.

[01:18:40] With some intentionality. Mm-hmm. I feel like it's really important that we do that. Mm-hmm. And she was like, hell yeah. You know? 

[01:18:45] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:18:45] Luke Storey: I've never thought about that in my life, dude. I mean, you see flyers for events, you know, especially like in the plant medicine space. Right. It's saying, oh, that's cute. They just picked a date, whatever.

[01:18:54] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:18:54] Luke Storey: Doesn't really mean a lot to me, but it, the way you just framed it makes it much more [01:19:00] meaningful. And also you, you can see so much evidence of this in, in the way that, um, shamanic traditions mm-hmm. And indigenous peoples were like so yoked to these passages of time. Right. And these cycles, it's like, duh.

[01:19:15] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:19:16] Luke Storey: This is, this is like how people evolved here on the planet. Right. Yeah, but we're over here like on Twitter, eh? Yeah. You know, it's like, meanwhile there's this whole celestial force 

[01:19:28] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:19:28] Luke Storey: Of consciousness that's like here waiting for us to 

[01:19:32] Alex Sachon: participate in it, 

[01:19:32] Luke Storey: to, to get in sync with it. Right. Right.

[01:19:34] It's really interesting. 

[01:19:35] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:19:36] Luke Storey: That's cool. 

[01:19:36] Alex Sachon: So go into all that to sit, to go back to the book. 'cause in this book I don't focus on these planetary alignments so much, but I focus on this even larger cycle of the great year and the idea that in this 25,000 year cycle, we are reaching a major archetype point, which is associated with this drawing of mankind.

[01:19:57] This long historical process into the [01:20:00] moment that we're in, which is the, on the cusp of this, um, global civilization. You 

[01:20:05] Luke Storey: said 

[01:20:05] Alex Sachon: we're 

[01:20:05] Luke Storey: like about at the half, the 12,000 a year halfway mark. Is that what you said earlier? 

[01:20:10] Alex Sachon: Well, in the, in the reading of the cycle, you can look at it a couple different ways, but.

[01:20:16] You can look at the, almost the atlan, maybe the fall of Atlantis as being the halfway point. And now we're at coming the full circle kind of harvesting of that experience. 

[01:20:24] Luke Storey: Oh, 

[01:20:25] Alex Sachon: because there at the, at the, so the lowest point of that midpoint is like the, the NIR point of the cycle. That's the bottoming out phase.

[01:20:33] And then, then there's this upward trajectory since then. So there was the fragmenting of, so the, you know, before that there was the kind of connection of civilization, but the corrupting of it, then the consequence of that bottoming out associated with Lantus. Then there was the fragmenting of people across the earth.

[01:20:48] Luke Storey: Okay. Okay. 

[01:20:49] Alex Sachon: And then the gradually you can track through the cycle, the, the connections forming again over a series of stages, you know, the rise of the early states, then, you know, the nation states, [01:21:00] then the empires and all that stuff. But that whole story is con is the story of reconnection. And now we're on the cusp of coming full circle.

[01:21:06] But that this is an archetypal PowerPoint that will only express itself in the positive way of this vision of, of the world nation. That's the positive polarity of the archetype. But we have to discover and participate in this larger universe that we've been, uh, not participating in. So we've 

[01:21:25] Luke Storey: been built after this sort of cataclysmic event in that cycle, we've been in a reintegration process that is, um, incremental.

[01:21:38] Mm-hmm. And now as you see it, we're sort of. Come, it's coming to its culmination. 

[01:21:43] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:44] Luke Storey: And here we are. 

[01:21:46] Alex Sachon: And in, but in the meantime, that whole episode gives these pri these psychological principles which were undeveloped in the past of ego, individuality, and rational thinking. The [01:22:00] intellect, the kind of destruction of the old caste system.

[01:22:02] And then the rise of a new type of consciousness where people have to learn to stand and make their own self, you know, express their own self will towards doing well, not just doing so also Atlantis associated with age of paternalism. But this is an age of, you know, people coming into their own sovereign kind of authority for themselves.

[01:22:21] So this is also part of an evolutionary growth process mm-hmm. Of mankind coming of age. Mm-hmm. And the, the concept of initiation and philosophy is intimately associated with evolution. 'cause initiation is the, earlier we talked about how mankind has to discover and participate in its own growth process, that nature won't drag us through it without our participation.

[01:22:41] So the initiation is the, is is another way of describing that. And the, and the mystery schools was an institution that was set up and the, and the archetypally, the degrees of initiation, or not arbitrarily defined. They're, uh, designed to quicken this process to participate in this [01:23:00] natural process, but uh, to advance it in a way.

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[01:24:32] And here's what's up. They taste delicious too. I am obsessed with this stuff. Try it for yourself and find out at real provisions.com/luke so it's difficult for me to reconcile a positive outcome to centralized power. 

[01:24:57] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:58] Luke Storey: Right. Like I, I think the, [01:25:00] that's, as you refer to Empire with the idea of one world government, it, it's kind of propagandized to be, we all need to just come together, right?

[01:25:10] Like all the nations, no borders, this kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Right. But it's like when you look at the results of it, at the end of it, there's less personal sovereignty. 

[01:25:21] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:22] Luke Storey: Right. It's like, I don't know, I think I'm kind of a, I'm kind of a old, old west kind of American thinker, right? It's like the individual, like the rights of the individual, the, the self-determination of the individual seems to me what ultimately strengthens the collective.

[01:25:40] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:41] Luke Storey: Whereas when you start to consolidate power, whether it's information, the monetary system, education, all these medicine, all these institutions, I mean, when you look at the results of. Of the centralization of any of those aspects of society, it seems to make things worse. [01:26:00] But it sounds like you, you have, am I, correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I haven't read the full book mm-hmm.

[01:26:05] But it seems like you see that there's actually a, a parallel possibility of that. Maybe you wouldn't call it consolidation or centralization, but this sort of, uh, epoch that we're entering into maybe could have a positive outcome. Yeah. I'm hoping. 'cause for me, I'm like, oh my God, the more power gets centralized, it seems like the less power we have as individuals Right.

[01:26:31] You know, to, to our free will is ultimately being robbed from us, you know? Right. But what, what's the positive side of that that maybe I'm not seeing, or people that are doom scrolling like me every day and going like, oh my God, it's getting bad. 

[01:26:44] Alex Sachon: Well, again, you know, philosophically, if you set things up, we have the archetypes, right, containing the divine mind.

[01:26:51] And then we have mankind evolving, struggling to express and discover the positive expression of these archetypes. Mm-hmm. But mired in the negative expression, [01:27:00] and yet we're pulled by these archetypes whether we want to or not, because they're part of the reality that we exist in. We can't help but express them.

[01:27:07] So we're c continuously put in circumstances that sort of shatter our comfortability, our status quo, that we'll be like, okay, well I've evolved enough. I'm just gonna be, I'm just gonna tend to my farm now, and I'll be by myself and it'll be fine. And then nature is never gonna allow that to happen because it, it's requiring us to evolve and be put in these circumstances.

[01:27:26] So that's, that's one aspect. Um, you know. In terms of like what the grand vision of how a, a positive expression of a global civilization could work in philosophy of this idea of microcosm macrocosm, and that the grate is actually designed upon the same pattern as the lesser mm-hmm. The greater and the lesser.

[01:27:45] Mm-hmm. So when we look at the organization of the, like 

[01:27:47] Luke Storey: a fractal 

[01:27:48] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:27:48] Luke Storey: Sort of expression. 

[01:27:49] Alex Sachon: So in the human body, we, we know that there's not this great diversity, there are in the unique individuality of the different parts, the different organ systems each have their [01:28:00] own place and have their own, you know, fiefdom in a way.

[01:28:04] But the body only works if they work in a harmonious links together. Mm-hmm. To serve the idea that the whole, there is a whole that unites them together. And so when we look at this idea of individuality, I think we ha we like, like I said, I think one of the evolutionary purposes of this period is to develop that sense of individuality, which whereas it was latent before, you think in the heyday of the caste system where your sub, your identity, self-identity is submerged into your social role and you see yourself as a social role.

[01:28:30] You don't see yourself as a divid individual expression of the divine or, or whatever. Um, I think that the, 

[01:28:39] Luke Storey: what I was getting at that might be helpful. Are you optimistic about? Oh, 

[01:28:44] Alex Sachon: say, 

[01:28:45] Luke Storey: I think I'm a, I'm, I don't know. I I kind of bounce between the two on one hand I see, I mean the emergence, the reemergence of psychedelics and Right.

[01:28:55] The, in the widespread interest in meditation and breath work and yoga [01:29:00] and people studying spirituality, I mean, like spirituality as a trend is to me a largely positive thing. Mm-hmm. Even though, you know, there's obviously a lot of people that are just sort of fronting about it. Uh, 'cause it's trendy. But I mean, I think it, people wouldn't be imitating, you know, um, spirituality if it didn't have value.

[01:29:20] Obviously it has value. So more and more people are being drawn to it. So, my wife and I joke about this all the time because, um, you know, she's a shaman and a spiritual teacher and she doesn't really do social media. She doesn't really put herself out there. 'cause we always joke, like everyone already knows everything.

[01:29:35] Like, what's the point? Everyone's like doing walk 

[01:29:38] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:29:38] Luke Storey: Walk and talks and they have it all figured out. You know, it's like, well I would, I guess, you know, the job's done right. 

[01:29:43] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:29:44] Luke Storey: So there's just like such a mass awakening and through, you know, 2020 until now, I mean, people are locked in their homes.

[01:29:52] Right. And they're starting to go, what's going on here? This doesn't feel right. And now all these conspiracy theories are being blown open and there's, there's so much, um. [01:30:00] You know, more transparency. The media's kind of like, you know, lost its relevance, and they're unable to really control through censorship, the information that gets out.

[01:30:08] So I'm very optimistic that humans are going like, wait, like where we go from here is up to us, right? Mm-hmm. If we, if we come together in a sense, but at the same time, the, it's like these old, the empire, I'm gonna start using that this, you know, this sort of, um, decrepit dying empire is grasping, you know, and they're start, they're just so reckless.

[01:30:30] They're starting wars every two weeks, and the chemtrails and the vaccine, I mean, it's just like they're, they're just like in, uh, the stranglehold as they die. 

[01:30:39] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:30:39] Luke Storey: It makes it seem to me like, wow, things are getting more dangerous and dark than ever. Even though on the other side of the scale, of course, everything's always balanced.

[01:30:47] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:30:48] Luke Storey: There's like so much, um, 

[01:30:50] Alex Sachon: awakening. 

[01:30:51] Luke Storey: Yeah. Awakening. And I'm so optimistic. It, it, you know, the people that I speak to every week here on the podcast, I'm like, oh, we're doing fine. It's only when I go on [01:31:00] telegram, I'm like, oh, we're fucked. You know what I mean? 

[01:31:01] Alex Sachon: Well, it's, it's the, they go together because the awakenings happening because of the man, the great manifestation of these shadow I call, I always think of it in terms of the shadow complexes.

[01:31:09] So these, yeah. And so, so the, you know, the, the rapacious leaders that we have, you know, they're designed the same way we are psychologically, but they're completely possessed by their shadow complexes. But either even each of us during this period of time, depending on what our karma that we're bringing to this life, like with addiction, that's a different version of a shadow complex.

[01:31:30] And in a way, you can look at the people who provide the drugs, like, you know, drug cartels, the CIA and all that stuff. And the people who take them, it is the diff, it's two different polarities of one great manifestation of a shadow complex. Mm-hmm. So people incarnate into this world depending on what they're, things that they're bringing into this life with them.

[01:31:50] Um, but I remember what I was gonna say earlier about this idea of individuality versus the concentration of power. I think one of the things that's the, under an [01:32:00] undercurrent to everything that we've been discussing is sort of rethinking also, and expansion, expanding the idea of the individual. What is the individual?

[01:32:07] And I was drawing the analogy of the microcosm and microcosm. We have to understand that, that the idea of an individual totally autonomous and separate unto itself is a fallacy. Really. It's an illusion. Right? 

[01:32:18] Luke Storey: Right. 

[01:32:18] Alex Sachon: And if we think about this idea of the collective unconscious that young was referring to, and as a sociologist, I always studied, uh, institutions, which are social structures, fundamental social structures.

[01:32:27] Mm-hmm. The existence of these collective aspects brings us to an awareness and appreciation that that. The individual physical human body, the physical personality is only one aspect of the human that incarnates the mind actually is only partly into the body and, and, and individualized. There's another aspect of the human mind that's connected to a shared field.

[01:32:50] So in a way, humanity actually is a single entity 

[01:32:53] Luke Storey: mm-hmm. 

[01:32:54] Alex Sachon: That is expressing itself through these various cells. And these cells organize [01:33:00] into a pattern which actually resembles in many ways the patterns of the body. So if you look at the, the institutions like government, religion, all this stuff, these are actually, they play functional roles in the development of the whole, much like the organs play functional roles in the body.

[01:33:13] Oh, that's interesting. That's cool. So there's a self organization that happens. And when you're born into this world, you, and this became clear to me, like kind of early on in my studies because I, I got into looking at, when I had my son, uh, this was in my early twenties, I got this book called The Scientist in the Crib.

[01:33:28] And it goes through the psychology of how the environment of the child fundamentally shapes the development of their mind. 

[01:33:34] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:34] Alex Sachon: Including things like language, like without this institution of language, the mind can't actually become this dynamic complex oper, you know, entity. And so the individual actually always has to come with this, uh, social environment that really provides the context within which it develops.

[01:33:52] So we have to al always be thinking about civilization in society in these terms. It's never just 8 billion individual units. It's actually [01:34:00] one supreme consciousness expressing itself through these 8 million parts, which are always interconnected and, and form a whole. And so the ultimate form of civilization, the ultimate form of, of a collective is actually those 8 billion parts, each playing their own role as a, in their, in their own self will, you know, uh, voluntarily participating in it and doing the best they can to realize their part.

[01:34:25] But it's, it's, they're all consciously aware of and in tune with the idea that there's actually one spirit manifesting through the planet and that we're all servicing that spirit. So that's becomes the earth as this, as civilization, as a kingdom of mm-hmm. The spirit. 

[01:34:42] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. You just explained my life because it's funny, it's like.

[01:34:48] Yeah. I think the value that I place on my own liberty, freedom, self-expression, the right to just be out in the world, and as long [01:35:00] as I'm not infringing on anyone else's rights, I feel like I should do, be able to do whatever I want. Right? Mm-hmm. It's like that, it's such a prized value to me. Mm-hmm. Yet, at the same time, I'm very aware that you and I are both exactly the same person.

[01:35:19] Mm-hmm. You know, it's like when you sit here, I'm just looking at myself in a, in a different outfit. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I mean, I really embody that. I, I forget it sometimes. Mm-hmm. But it's fundamental to the point where I couldn't disbelieve it or forget it. 

[01:35:33] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:35:33] Luke Storey: You know, just through experiences I've had in life and, and that's where I derive my care, compassion, empathy, love.

[01:35:42] It's, you know, it's why I do my very best to not harm people. Mm-hmm. You know, because it doesn't feel good. A and I know I'm just doing it to myself. 

[01:35:51] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:35:51] Luke Storey: You know, and I've had that experience for a couple decades of Yeah. You know, hurting a lot of people and really even tenfold hurting [01:36:00] myself in the process.

[01:36:00] Mm-hmm. You know, but it's, it's hard for me to see groups of people that don't have that awareness or that deny that reality, that truth. Like, call it our government, for example. Mm-hmm. To have them be more consolidated. You know, I'm just like, wow, that's fine for me and you, me, you and Jared, all the homies.

[01:36:20] Yeah. Let's all come together as a collective and build the world that we want to see. 

[01:36:24] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:36:24] Luke Storey: But it's like, whoa, those guys over there, they're in a whole different program. They're motivated by shadow, as you would say. Right. They're, they're unconscious of like why they're doing what they're doing and the consequences that it has on those around them.

[01:36:37] Alex Sachon: Right? 

[01:36:37] Luke Storey: Yeah. They're just totally unconscious, 

[01:36:40] Alex Sachon: right? 

[01:36:40] Luke Storey: Yeah. That's wild. 

[01:36:41] Alex Sachon: Well, you know, one of the things I think about when I think about that leadership class, you know, the Rockefellers or Epstein's of the world, so to speak, and their mentality is that on one hand, or in many ways, it's a forward progression of the feudalistic psychology of the Middle Ages, but the question is like, why wasn't it?

[01:36:59] [01:37:00] What? Why couldn't it have been? Or why didn't new influences come in and course correct some of that, like, why, you know. And I think this whole complicated dynamic story of the either and this whole other institution forming what it is, it kept that leadership class in a state of arrested development.

[01:37:18] Luke Storey: Oh, right, 

[01:37:20] Alex Sachon: right. So, so they couldn't, 

[01:37:20] Luke Storey: because they operate. Yeah. Have you ever looked into David Hawkins work? 

[01:37:24] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:25] Luke Storey: Oh man, I got a book for you. So he, he used kinesiology to, um, to measure non-local phenomenon, right? 

[01:37:34] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:34] Luke Storey: And then he developed this, um, map of consciousness and created a logarithmic scale from zero to a thousand.

[01:37:41] So in a human realm, a thousand is the highest level that one could achieve. Buddha Christ, et cetera. A three would be like an amoeba, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, pedophile would be a 20, right. Uh, you know, and so on, right? And then 200 is the point of neutrality where you cross over [01:38:00] into either being a positive 

[01:38:01] mm-hmm.

[01:38:02] Luke Storey: Force in the world mm-hmm. Rather than extractive. And so I think about that and, um, and then there's all the different animals all calibrate at a, at a different level. Right. And so the omnivorous animals will calibrate over 200 pets in your house, like dogs and cats will get up into like the, I think 500, which is the level of love and so on.

[01:38:23] Anyway, it's a whole model. Mm-hmm. That's really beautiful and it's helped me tremendously, but. When you look at someone who is completely divorced of their humanity, someone we would describe as evil. 

[01:38:33] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:34] Luke Storey: Under that particular model, they would calibrate at 80 or something, right? 

[01:38:39] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:39] Luke Storey: It's like they're so, they're on the same level as a komodo dragon, right.

[01:38:43] Or crocodile, or, you know, it's the 

[01:38:44] Alex Sachon: animal 

[01:38:45] Luke Storey: brain. Exactly. It's animal brain to your point of like, uh, it makes so much sense that there's something about the developmental aspect of that class of people or that archetype that has kept them in this [01:39:00] survival limbic driven thing that people like you and I, and normal people who have access to empathy can't understand.

[01:39:10] And I think that's part of our downfall is that we can't super impose ourselves into that state of consciousness because it's hard. We just can't imagine what it would be like to be like, oh, cool, I'm gonna molest a kid or murder someone, or rob a bank or whatever, start a war. Yeah. You know, it's like we go, oh, there can't be people like that.

[01:39:29] Right. It's like causes us to be naive because we can't imagine being motivated like that because we're not animals. Right. We're, we've, we've found a way to rise above just living on an instinctive level. 

[01:39:41] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:39:42] Luke Storey: Right? 

[01:39:42] Alex Sachon: Yeah. So it was like, again, zooming out beyond just the material state and looking at the earth as a developmental system of consciousness and mind.

[01:39:52] In a way you can have compassion for those people because they are, they're actually, even though temporally on the earth, they are in a position of [01:40:00] power above us. They actually are less advanced in terms of their growth. Totally, totally. Also, 

[01:40:05] Luke Storey: we're the elites, bro. 

[01:40:07] Alex Sachon: Yeah. In a way, I mean, we're, we are more advanced as souls, you could say than Yeah.

[01:40:11] Than, you know, that, that, that lead, that rulership class. I mean, these people aren't impressive at all, but they, in a way they do. There are people who, and I think this is the way the kind of world system works, is that these are people who are extremely possessed by their shadow. And so collectively, you could say the deep state is a manifestation collectively of the shadow.

[01:40:33] Mm-hmm. So they ma their shadow complexes put them in a position to incarnate in that shadow collective, shadow complex, which is the deep state, and that's where they're playing out their dharma. 

[01:40:43] Luke Storey: Right. 

[01:40:44] Alex Sachon: And then we are playing our dharma and this, and this other position, but that the environment that they're creating is giving us the con the context within which we have our growth.

[01:40:52] Luke Storey: They're, they're giving us the contrast 

[01:40:55] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:40:55] Luke Storey: That we need to push against. 

[01:40:57] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:40:58] Luke Storey: Right. I mean, that's such an interesting [01:41:00] thing about this realm. And I've contemplated this a lot, just trying to reconcile like, what am I doing here? You know, this place is trash. Like, it's so ghetto. I'm just like, why are you, I wanna be in utopia.

[01:41:12] I'm cool. I just wanna be around cool people, you know, that don't hurt each other. What, why is that so hard? But it's like. Throughout my life starting, you know, probably at birth, those that have, you know, hurt me or traumatized me because they're expressing their shadow pushed me into manifesting, you know?

[01:41:34] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:41:34] Luke Storey: The operation on the, the, um, operating system of shadow myself 

[01:41:39] Alex Sachon: mm-hmm. 

[01:41:39] Luke Storey: Which caused me enough pain eventually, that I was able to rise out of it. Right. Yeah. So had they not been there as catalyst for me and caused suffering within me, I, I, maybe I would still be one of them. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[01:41:54] So it's, it's interesting the way these forces kind of work toward the [01:42:00] greater evolution Yeah. Of the macro. Yeah. It's like the system needs the pushback, the polarity in order for it to kind of move forward. Right. Which does give me compassion for these evil bastards too. You know, it's like, 

[01:42:13] Alex Sachon: because they have to live with the consequences of their action.

[01:42:16] Yeah. Like after you die, it's not just a blackness, you go into. The mysteries of your own mind, the inner mysteries, and you have to live within your own psyche until the next incarnation. You have to, you go inward and, and you have to rest where you are developmentally until you have another chance to incarnate and develop into another level.

[01:42:35] Luke Storey: So there is justice, there 

[01:42:37] Alex Sachon: is a 

[01:42:37] Luke Storey: absolutely, when we're watching these bastards on TV just laughing at their inquisition, uh, we know, I mean, I know that I look at them and I, I do feel, even though like I wanna see them suffer, you know? Yeah. Uh, on a lower level. On a higher level, I'm like, oh, they think they're, they might be getting, 

[01:42:52] Alex Sachon: they're already in suffering.

[01:42:53] Luke Storey: Yeah, man. It's like, 

[01:42:54] Alex Sachon: except for more 

[01:42:55] Luke Storey: they might be, um, you know, you might see this arrogance and this [01:43:00] kind of indifference that they have. Yeah. But it's like, dude, they're in for it. You, the justice they would meet here on earth, even if you got the justice you really wanted, is likely nothing compared to what they're going to endure.

[01:43:12] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:43:12] Luke Storey: When they're not in a body. 

[01:43:14] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:43:14] Luke Storey: I mean, let alone just the consequences of that kind of behavior. Yeah. The effect that it, the impact that it has on your psyche. You know, 

[01:43:20] Alex Sachon: if you frame things in energy terms, it's like, that's a, that's a low level of energy manifestation. And it's like you can't have a higher man, uh, manifestation of energy until you earn that, until you actually transform your lower into the higher.

[01:43:31] So there, the low energy, kind of like chaotic energy that is embodied within them, that's causing their behaviors psychologically, like Yeah. When you pass on that. Is still remaining with you, and you have to live in that chaos. 

[01:43:47] Luke Storey: Right? Right. 

[01:43:48] Alex Sachon: And this whole, this whole path of discussion also opens the door to something that I think is important, that is emphasized heavily in this esoteric tradition that I kind of specialize in, which is the [01:44:00] idea that there is a, like, when we think of elites, it's always negative, like, understandably so.

[01:44:04] But the idea that there's a positive, like there are these great ones, the great teachers, all the ancient really like Daoism, the whole thing, the whole book. There were the great ones of old who were, yeah. And the thing that I, I can understand in our modern times, we get, we've kind of gotten disillusioned with that idea because there's this question of, if there were great ones, why would they allow us to suffer in this system?

[01:44:24] Like, why do we come here and suffer? Why don't they make it better for us? But it's, it is for this very reasons that we're talking about is that it's, it's, it's like they would look at it as a, this earth as a developmental system, as a great temple. They would believe in the eter internality of the soul.

[01:44:40] And that, you know, there is no finality with death. And so. This system is a developmental system, and it has to play out this way for it to do its work. Right. You know, so the great aluminum ones, you know, they, you, you, you cut through the illusion of this also this material state, and you can see the bigger picture.

[01:44:59] [01:45:00] You're participating in this larger reality, and you're understanding that this whole move into consciousness, that, uh, this whole move of consciousness into this material state is a voluntary move that's taking place within itself, and that it's serving an ultimate higher spiritual purpose. But this is all, uh, proceeding according to a law and to a plan and purpose.

[01:45:19] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:45:19] Alex Sachon: Even though it's hard to see that in the short term.

[01:45:25] Luke Storey: All right, listen up. If you're over 35, congratulations. You are officially an adult. You can even run for president, although I don't recommend it. Here's something way more important to note. Your enzyme levels have already started declining, whether you eat clean or not. Enzymes are what? Break down food into usable protein, fats, carbs, and micronutrients.

[01:45:47] So if you're noticing a little more bloating, less energy, or you're walking away from meals feeling heavy instead of refueled, it's probably because your digestion just isn't what it used to be. And this you guys [01:46:00] is why I take mass maime from BiOptimizers religiously. I'm talking every meal. Maims delivers a full spectrum of enzymes, including significantly more protease than other brands.

[01:46:11] And that really matters because protein is the hardest macronutrient for the body to break down and the one you need more of as you age. Maime is become part of my daily ritual for optimized digestion. I take two capsules with my biggest meal of the day, and I never feel like I need to recover from eating.

[01:46:29] Plus I'm not thinking about food a couple hours later because my body actually got what it needed from what I ate. So to get everything out of the food you eat, head over to buy optimizers.com/luke and use the code Luke 15 to save 15%. If you wanna make your meals, pay you back in a real 

[01:46:46] Alex Sachon: nutrition maime is the way to do it.

[01:46:49] Again, hit up buy optimizers.com/luke. 

[01:46:54] Luke Storey: Something you just said a few minutes ago is really sticking with me. Uh, and I never thought about [01:47:00] this. I mean, I, I've thought about the idea of karma, right? So if we're talking about people that are evil and destructive, it's like. I understand that there're going to be repercussions for them karmically, right.

[01:47:16] That they're going to meet the same kind of suffering that they've caused and more, right? 

[01:47:21] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:21] Luke Storey: Because I've experienced that even in this lifetime, in this body. Mm-hmm. But I never thought about the idea that, you know, you described the chaos of the mind, right? Like that inner landscape of hell mm-hmm.

[01:47:33] That you have to be living in, in order to behave like they do. 

[01:47:36] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:36] Luke Storey: I never thought about the idea that they're going to take that with them out of the body into whatever realm they move into. And it makes a lot of sense because when you're in, say, a really deep psychedelic experience, like something even, you know, the deepest, like five M-E-O-D-M-T, I mean, there's of course like a few minutes where there's no you there, right.

[01:47:58] As the experiencer of [01:48:00] that. Mm-hmm. But in the little bridge, when you're coming out of it, there's like a part of you that's here and a part of you that's still not here. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? In terms of like the ego structure, the identity. Right. The persona, the persona gets obliterated, so you don't even know what's happening.

[01:48:14] Mm-hmm. Then you start to come back into it. But I, in my limited experience, I, I think that's probably the closest you can get to an NDE, right? Yeah. Without a physical, um 

[01:48:29] Alex Sachon: mm-hmm. 

[01:48:30] Luke Storey: Cause, right. 

[01:48:30] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:31] Luke Storey: But it's like, whoa, you're still alive and you're still there even though you're not here. 

[01:48:35] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:36] Luke Storey: So you, you're kind of, it's kind of an out-of-body experience.

[01:48:39] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:48:40] Luke Storey: And then, you know, down through all of the o other levels of lesser intensity and psychedelic experiences, you are taking yourself with you when you go, even though you're not here in this reality anymore. Right. Yeah. You're going interdimensional in ayahuasca and mushrooms, wherever you're going.

[01:48:58] It's like you're bringing the own mind, your [01:49:00] mind with you. Yeah. When you're there, right. There's still a, you there experiencing that even though the rest of this world is completely gone. 

[01:49:06] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:49:06] Luke Storey: You know, you're, you're probably in a more real world there than this world is here. Right. In my opinion.

[01:49:12] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:49:13] Luke Storey: So in those experiences, you know, throughout my life when I had a lot more trauma still buried and there was more shadow and shit that needed to be felt and worked through and integrated, you know, those experiences would be much more difficult because I'm still in there with me and my mind and my memories and my thoughts and constructs.

[01:49:32] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:49:32] Luke Storey: And then as, as that's been become more clear and like cleaner, for lack of a better term, in those spaces, there's nothing really spooky going on. Right. 'cause I'm not bringing anything spooky with me. 

[01:49:45] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:49:45] Luke Storey: Right, 

[01:49:46] Alex Sachon: right. 

[01:49:46] Luke Storey: So to your point, it's like I think about Oh wow. So crossing over, leaving your body, you know, I dunno where we go, what it's like, I don't remember that, but it's very clear to me that you don't die.

[01:49:57] Like Yeah. There's still a U in some [01:50:00] form. Yeah. Living in, uh, kind of an etheric realm or something. Right. But this idea that you, you brought up that like, that mind and all of that chaos and all of that pain is going to be brought with you because I've experienced that, um, to a lesser degree. That's really interesting.

[01:50:17] Alex Sachon: And what you were saying about the imitation of these psychedelic experiences with the, uh, after death experience, that's, that it's, it's curating that experience and guiding it, which was one of the fundamental practices of the ancient mystery schools like these, these shaman began as a shamanistic society, but our tradition and then gradually expanded into an institution through time.

[01:50:42] But the, at the high, at the, at the sort of like key moment between the lower and the higher grades, you're, you're taken through, you're given an experience, you're taken through the process of death and the afterlife. And you realize, and you come to realize through this, that there is no finality to, [01:51:00] to this experience.

[01:51:00] Right. And then when you come back, you're liberated from so much of the fear and the primitive drives that would otherwise, that otherwise keep us in an animalistic state. Yeah. Yeah. It releases you from that. So you're able to now work towards a, a sort of a higher state of functioning, a, a greater degree of development, uh, liberated from, from being completely trapped in the illusion of materiality.

[01:51:25] Luke Storey: Right, right. Yeah, I thought about that too with, um. You know, with these, with the bad guys is like, they have to be atheist ultimately. Right? Right. It's like if I really, if I was like limited to a material experience and that, that was my core reality mm-hmm. That I am this body that they call Luke's story, and that when my heart stops beating, that's the end of the show.

[01:51:52] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:52] Luke Storey: I'm gonna grab for everything I can and fuck over anyone I can to accumulate everything. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. It's like I'm gonna be so obsessed with [01:52:00] security and certainty and, and I'm gonna be locked in the instincts like an animal, because I don't know that like you can't take it with you, right?

[01:52:10] Mm-hmm. Because I don't think there is a place that you take anything to, right? Mm-hmm. And so the mystery schools and these shamanic traditions show us that there's still a you beyond this physical experience, right? And so if that's the case, what is the value in being here? It's it's the, it's building something internally in, in one's character.

[01:52:35] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:52:35] Luke Storey: In one's nature, right? In one's soul's evolution. When that becomes the primary motive. It's like, why would you, you know, why would you need to behave in a way, or, um, yeah. Why, why would you steal or try to harm someone else for your gain? You know what I mean? Right. Makes sense. It's like, it's like, yeah.

[01:52:59] [01:53:00] Why would you be rapacious and dishonest and deceive people and manipulative, et cetera, um, commit acts of violence and so on. It's like there's kind of a, you see the morality in it, it doesn't feel good 'cause you have more access to love and you, you experience the divine and so on. But it's also like, it's just dumb.

[01:53:17] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:53:18] Luke Storey: Right. Because it's like, the only thing I'm gonna take with me is my, is what you call the mind. Right. It's like, what's going on within my own consciousness, my own psyche? What value am I actually gaining from this human experience while I'm here? Right. And the only value that seems real to me is a maturation of my soul and development.

[01:53:40] Mm-hmm. And becoming, coming into greater coherence with the Godhead. Right. Right. To aiming toward that as, as an ideal Yeah. As maybe an unattainable but worthy goal. 

[01:53:51] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:53:52] Luke Storey: Whereas you have someone that's like, ah, I just gotta buy more houses and 

[01:53:55] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[01:53:55] Luke Storey: You know, build this corporation and steal money. And, you know, it's like, I go, why are [01:54:00] they doing that?

[01:54:00] Oh, they, they must not believe in God or the afterlife, otherwise they would know that they're going to be met with, you know, the consequences. A, 

[01:54:09] Alex Sachon: yeah. 

[01:54:09] Luke Storey: And B, they would see the futility in it. 

[01:54:11] Alex Sachon: Right. Or they have a totally false, uh, understanding of God. Which is a God of material power or a God of, you know, like, look at, look at this.

[01:54:22] I mean, you look at what's happening with the kind of the Zionist hierarchy in Israel, they seem to be very much driven by a theologic concept. So they're, I wouldn't say they're atheists, right? But they, their God is one of, Israel's meant to have this territory we're meant to conquer the, uh, you know, other people we're.

[01:54:42] So it's, it is, it's an infatuation with materialism and the power of this illusionary, you know, globe. And so there they have no understanding of this larger spiritual essence. And their concept of spirit is sort of the negative [01:55:00] polarity of it, which is one of power and control on this earth. Yeah. And that's an old archetype.

[01:55:04] It's not just them, but you see this over and over again whenever there's this fall of the intellectual class or the priesthood, whatever, it's always the same type of thing where there's a misunderstanding of the doctrine. 

[01:55:16] Luke Storey: Right. 

[01:55:16] Alex Sachon: So it's not a, there's a projection of your own egotism into it. Yeah. 

[01:55:20] Luke Storey: So it's not a lack of theology.

[01:55:22] 'cause that, that's another thing too, when you look at the way these, these groups operate throughout time, I mean, there, there is an organizing principle, right? Mm-hmm. There, there is a, there is a theology, there is a belief system. 

[01:55:34] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:34] Luke Storey: It just. On its face seems to be fallacious. 

[01:55:38] Alex Sachon: Yeah. I mean, look, also, just look what happened at the church in the Middle Ages.

[01:55:42] You can see there's the high ideals of Jesus. And then you have this other doctrine come where actually the point is the glorification of the church. And it's not the life of, of the teachings or the doctrine. Right. That was disseminated by this great person. It becomes, uh, about the glorification of the [01:56:00] priesthood and the church itself.

[01:56:01] The temporal institution. 

[01:56:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:56:03] Alex Sachon: Rather than the transcendent, uh, ideals of it. 

[01:56:06] Luke Storey: Wow. Dude, this is one of the most fun conversations I've had in a long time. So glad we're able to do this today. Um, there's more though I want to get into. 

[01:56:15] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:16] Luke Storey: Uh, I would be remiss if I didn't learn something about Manly P Hall.

[01:56:20] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[01:56:20] Luke Storey: You know, it's just one of, one of your guys. And of course Carl Young. I know you're, you're really into, uh, manly P Hall. The only time I've ever heard that name to my recollection is I think at some point I heard Donald Trump was like a fan of follow followers of his work. Yeah. Dunno, 

[01:56:36] Alex Sachon: I know 

[01:56:36] Luke Storey: that, 

[01:56:37] Alex Sachon: I mean, I know that he's been sort of marginalized in the later, 'cause he lived a long time.

[01:56:43] Okay. And he became, he was born in 1901, started his teaching career in the 1920s. And one of the great mysteries about Manley P Hall is that. He emerged, basically fully formed as a teacher. Oh, wow. So some of his greatest works were in his twenties, and the knowledge that [01:57:00] he had, and these aren't just works of like, kind of, oh, maybe anybody could write it.

[01:57:03] These were like deep works of scholarship. Like if you looked at it, his, his, the work he's most known for is a, basically an encyclopedia type of work, which is a little bit different than the most of the other work that he did in his life, but it is called the secret Teachings of all Ages. And so it's basically an eso uh, an encyclopedia of the Western esoteric tradition going back thousands of years.

[01:57:21] And the amount of knowledge that's in this book is truly humbling. Like you can't open it up and looked to it without just being like completely blown away by it. Wow. And it was written by someone who was 25 in the 1920s without access to, to easy access to this kind of information. Yeah. Interest.

[01:57:37] Another mystery even going on earlier in his life. And like he wrote, so he is, he wrote on every different, he seemed to have the keys to unlocking the meaning of every different ancient philosophical and religious tradition and would masterfully unfold the symbolism and tell you what the real meaning was behind it.

[01:57:55] But he was doing this almost from the very beginning, he emerged. So he himself [01:58:00] is a, um, basically a representative or an embodiment of this esoteric mystery, mystery school tradition. Like he is, he not only speaks extensively about it and all the different manifestations that it had. As a, maybe a top scholar would, but he gives you the inner details of it.

[01:58:18] He explains the whole thing, and he also gives you these beautiful descriptions of the experience of inward mysticism, the experience of mm-hmm. Illumination and what these things are like without at all, uh, glorifying it. Anyway, it's just like a kind of matter of fact way he describes it. It's, it's very appropriate and tasteful how he approaches these things.

[01:58:36] But he was talking about this since his early twenties, and there was never a variation in his approach or the content that he put out about these topics throughout his whole 70 year career. It was elaborations on a theme that he seemed to have had from the very beginning. 

[01:58:51] Luke Storey: Wow. 

[01:58:51] Alex Sachon: So this is, these are the type of mysteries about him that I unpack in, in my book about him.

[01:58:56] Luke Storey: Oh, cool. Yeah. I can't wait to read that. Yeah. That, that, that's the only, well, [01:59:00] there's one of two things I've heard about him was that Donald Trump was a fan of his, um, which I took to be, 'cause you know, in the twenties and thirties there was this new thought movement, right? Right. You had, uh, Emmett Fox and Napoleon Hill.

[01:59:12] Mm-hmm. And these kind of, uh, it is like, I mean, Emmett Fox was definitely like in the Christian Lane, but more in the metaphysical side. So you had like these metaphysical teachers, and even, even Alcoholics Anonymous and Bill Wilson kind of are born out of that era. Right. And that mindset, like Christian principles, but kind of minus the religion, right?

[01:59:34] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:59:34] Luke Storey: So I always, when I've heard of. Uh, Manley P Hall, I kind of thought, oh, he's must be like a Napoleon Hill guy. Kind of like a motivational Right. Metaphysical personal development guy, which made sense for Donald Trump. A businessman might be into someone's philosophy like that. Right. So I've heard that.

[01:59:52] And then recently, I think it was, I was listening to Candace Owens, uh, and I think she mentioned him in [02:00:00] relationship to OC Cultism and Alistair Crowley. Is there any evidence you found that he was kind of into that, the, the, the 

[02:00:07] Alex Sachon: dark art side? No, he was a kind of an opponent of 

[02:00:09] Luke Storey: He was. 

[02:00:09] Alex Sachon: Okay. The ideology of, yeah.

[02:00:10] Luke Storey: Okay. 

[02:00:11] Alex Sachon: So, I mean, one thing I'll say is that, you know, mainly hall's, part of a category of, you could say, as a terrorist, as Oc Cultus, uh, new Age Thinkers. And if you don't like that movement, the, the temptation would be to just throw it all away, say, mm-hmm. Oh, he's part of that. I'm gonna categorize or label it without ever knowing, learning or knowing anything about it.

[02:00:29] Luke Storey: Oh, okay. 

[02:00:29] Alex Sachon: So, you know, people who really don't know anything about this field or tempted to do this, and Candace Owens is one of these people. I, I like her and respect her in a lot of ways, but she really does nothing that she, she doesn't know what she's talking about, about this, this film. 

[02:00:39] Luke Storey: Oh, okay. Have you heard her talk shit about this man Lepe Hall 

[02:00:42] Alex Sachon: too?

[02:00:42] I've never heard her talk about Man Lepe Hall, but she, you know, she's a, she, she'll have to like, look at her where she comes from. She's Orthodox Catholic perspective. Right. And so that's. She's a homer for that perspective. That's what it she roots for. So everybody else who's in opposite, you know, everybody else is, is a type of, type of other 

[02:00:58] deal 

[02:00:58] Luke Storey: with.

[02:00:58] So her 

[02:00:58] Alex Sachon: to deal with 

[02:00:59] Luke Storey: objectivity is [02:01:00] going to be skewed based on an, an entrenched belief system. 

[02:01:03] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:01:03] Luke Storey: Okay. 

[02:01:03] Alex Sachon: So she, so it's, she s it in like a sensationalized way, I would say. 

[02:01:07] Luke Storey: Got it. 

[02:01:08] Alex Sachon: Um, but, but I do admire her for other things. You know, 

[02:01:11] Luke Storey: I would, I would never want to get on her bad side. 

[02:01:13] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:01:14] Luke Storey: She is, she's a really good investigator, man.

[02:01:16] Yeah. If she gets into your past, like you better not have any skeletons in the closet, that chick's gonna find her. 

[02:01:21] Alex Sachon: Well, it's her and a whole army of people around her. 

[02:01:23] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:01:24] Alex Sachon: Which is interesting to have this, this new form of journalism, which is like somewhat decentralized in a way. 

[02:01:29] Luke Storey: It's 

[02:01:30] Alex Sachon: cool. 'cause there's all these talkers and stuff who were 

[02:01:32] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:01:32] She, she calls it that the decentralized intelligence agency. That's, it's cool. She'll, she'll always like sick her internet sleuth on a topic and then they, they come back with the data, you know? 

[02:01:42] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:01:42] Luke Storey: It's interesting. 

[02:01:44] Alex Sachon: But yeah, I mean, so, so as a category, I understand how this is also a field where there's many fakers, there's many pretenders, there's, there's many people who claim great greatness or whatever.

[02:01:57] And Manley Hall was like super duper humble. He, [02:02:00] he, he, if he wanted to, he could have done much more than he did, but he was like, my goal and my mission in life is just to, to, to basically serve kind of like an encyclopedia encyclopedia of this tradition. To navigate the waters of this realm where there's, there's mostly misinformation or misunderstanding or disinformation.

[02:02:21] And for me, when I was going into the field before I got into Manley Hall, I was trying to navigate that space because you have a lot of different people who claim a lot of different things. And, but when you start going to their teachings, they don't agree with each other. So it's like everybody claims to have the truth, but then how could they not be agreeing if it was the truth?

[02:02:37] Mm-hmm. You know, 

[02:02:38] Luke Storey: there's no consensus. 

[02:02:40] Alex Sachon: Right? There's no consensus. Yeah. So you have to, as, as a researcher or scholar or someone who wants to learn, you have to navigate that space. And so, uh, when I found him, it was, you know, it also helped that I had this background in the social sciences. I was working with a lot of the ideas that went into this book.

[02:02:56] Um, I didn't know how to put it all, I didn't know how to put it all together. I didn't know how to [02:03:00] factor in these mysteries of mind and consciousness and spirit. But I was working, I was trying to, I just didn't know necessarily how to get the formula right. And then when I found Manley Hall, it wasn't like I was coming from nowhere.

[02:03:11] I had this background and I was working. There were real specific problems I was working to solve. And when I started reading him and also listened to his lectures, he has hundreds of lectures available on YouTube. 

[02:03:21] Luke Storey: Oh, cool. 

[02:03:22] Alex Sachon: But he's got dozen, he hundreds of magazine articles that he wrote. I mean, it's an inhuman output.

[02:03:26] You can't even, no one can even satisfactory or explain how he did what he did in terms of his output. 

[02:03:30] Luke Storey: Isn't that interesting how some people have that capacity, you know, to really create, I mean, this is like. The old school content creators. Right, right. But you look at people that, you know, wrote 40 books, it's, and they were alive 80 years.

[02:03:43] Yeah. Like what? 

[02:03:44] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:03:45] Luke Storey: It's crazy. 

[02:03:45] Alex Sachon: And he was one of those people. 

[02:03:47] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[02:03:47] Alex Sachon: But he, he's, he, I mean, when you look at the content of his material, he's, on one hand is a scholar, like a normal academic professor would be, but he's clearly bringing something inward into it that's giving him his wisdom and giving his, [02:04:00] he's clearly aware of some underlying archetype or pattern that he's able to apply masterfully in his dissection of the symbolism of all these different traditions to show that they all have a secret teach the common secret teaching.

[02:04:12] Mm-hmm. Behind them. Mm-hmm. And that secret teaching is based on this shamanistic shamanistic inward tradition. Because you, you, when you go inward and you have this inward experience of the great mysteries, it's, it's one ultimate truth that you are discovering. And that's why there can be many different cultures.

[02:04:28] Whose wi, whose own wisdom traditions also all point to the same truth. Yeah. Because 

[02:04:32] Luke Storey: yeah, 

[02:04:33] Alex Sachon: that's what you experience. 

[02:04:34] Luke Storey: Yeah, totally. 

[02:04:35] Alex Sachon: So he must have had the experience himself to know what the PA master pattern was, and to be able to describe it so eloquently from such an early age, which is what, which is what he did.

[02:04:44] Luke Storey: I think, uh, this kind of spiritual savant phenomenon is really interesting. And yeah, he's the first, he was an American guy. 

[02:04:52] Alex Sachon: Yeah. Uh, he was born in Canada, but he, he, he grew up his whole life in America. 

[02:04:55] Luke Storey: Okay. So western guy, I mean this, this phenomena is, [02:05:00] um, more common historically in India, 

[02:05:02] Alex Sachon: right, 

[02:05:03] Luke Storey: right.

[02:05:03] Where you have a kid, 

[02:05:04] Alex Sachon: he, he, he very much has 

[02:05:05] the, 

[02:05:05] Luke Storey: a 12-year-old kid. And everyone in the village is like, they're the enlightened master and they really are, you 

[02:05:10] know, 

[02:05:10] Alex Sachon: he seems like a, like someone from the east and he's also an expert in the east. Like his most famous book is about the western esoteric tradition.

[02:05:16] But he's ju just as equally adept at esoteric Buddhism, Daoism. He can speak seriously eloquently and have the keys to the symbolism of east and west. 

[02:05:24] Luke Storey: Wow. 

[02:05:25] Alex Sachon: But he, but, but from all accounts of people who have known him, uh, there are very few alive. I've gotten to know one of them, his former assistant Ronnie, who I just visited in LA last week.

[02:05:34] Luke Storey: Oh, cool. 

[02:05:35] Alex Sachon: But you just go back and way that other people talked about, I'm like, this was somebody who had the aura and the disposition and the demeanor of an old Taoist sage. He was very gentle soul and certainly knew much more than he ever led on. Like he gave out immense amount of knowledge in his teachings, but he clearly knew a lot more and was very carefully s sprinkling it all out.

[02:05:59] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And one of the amazing [02:06:00] things about him is that you almost need to do what I did, which is to really survey his whole. Course of teachings throughout his whole career to get the full spectrum. 'cause he really did sprinkle stuff out all over the place, including in little minor booklets and little minor articles you would think would be like, oh, I don't need to, I just focus on the main works.

[02:06:18] But you actually have to have to get the full picture. Like some of his most important stuff is in the places you would least expect to find it. Um, so I think there was, there was some approach that he had that this was a deliberate thing. He didn't wanna make it easy to, to come upon these secrets.

[02:06:33] There, there was an intentionality behind the approach that he had. But I see him as somebody who was not only a scholar of this esoteric tradition in the mystery school tradition, but he's very much one of the rare in the west, one of the rare authentic ambassadors of it, where he was almost certainly an at part of this institution, this mysterious institution.

[02:06:52] And I, so in the book, uh, which again, I didn't bring, 'cause I'm doing a expanded rewrite of it, and I, I would like to focus more on that when that [02:07:00] comes out. Um, but even in, in the initial edition, which is available on Amazon, I try to navigate into some of the mysteries of inner mysteries of his life. And, uh, and he, you know, the, so this is it, this is even another aspect of the, his secret history of this.

[02:07:15] Time that we haven't really touched on, but you know, we have the, so there's basically the way I see it, four levels that we have to, to layer on as we track the development of civilizations through time. And one of 'em is the lower level of like, the kind of general public, the history that we know and learn in school for the most part.

[02:07:32] Uh, then there's this story of the, of the oligarchy and the empires, you know, emerging through time. And then we have this level of what I call the, the technocratic super state, which is this institution. And that emerged in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds that consolidated this etheric energy. We have to tell that story.

[02:07:51] But then there's this other story, which is the esoteric lineage of the mystery schools and, um, and what role that they played in [02:08:00] time. And he is a, a gateway into that level. 

[02:08:02] Luke Storey: Ah, okay. 

[02:08:02] Alex Sachon: And he tells the story and he tells it through time. But then when he gets into the 20th century that he lived, he was very careful about the way he said it, but he gives you certain hints to it.

[02:08:12] But this fourfold level is not arbitrary actually. These are the, the way I kind of think of it, it's, this is the four levels of each of these equates to an element and together this is the archetypal cast system. 

[02:08:24] Luke Storey: Oh, interesting. 

[02:08:25] Alex Sachon: Yeah, so there's the earth level, which is the, you know, general public, the working classes.

[02:08:30] Then there's the water level, which is the aristocracy. And this is, this is basically how it's defined in the traditional of kind of Buddhist philosophy, or not Buddhist, but Hindu philosophy of the, of the caste system. So this is an archetype. Uh, then there is the fire, which is traditionally the governance, the state, the warrior cast.

[02:08:47] And you know, in my reading of modern American society, American Empire, the really, the seed of governance is this entity that controls this etheric energy paradigm, although certain aspects of governments are distributed [02:09:00] among the other lower levels. Uh, and then the highest level is the priesthood of the Brahman class.

[02:09:05] And this is this, uh, lineage that Manley Hall represents, but you can track it in moving into America through another figure who lived 400 years ago, who's very important in this story. And I, I talked to him about him a little bit in this book. And, um, and my Manley Hall book, the first edition doesn't talk about it much a little bit, but I've done some work on my Substack, a big series that I did a few years ago on this figure, which I'll tell you in a second.

[02:09:29] Um, but then in the rewrite that I'm doing in the Manley Hall book, I'm incorporating more of that material. So this new edition will be like the definitive Manley Hall book when it comes out. Uh, and, and not only about Manley Hall, but about this whole esoteric tradition. But this is a figure named Francis Bacon.

[02:09:43] Luke Storey: I've heard that name. 

[02:09:44] Alex Sachon: Francis Bacon is one of the most important. Now there's an artist also named Francis Bacon from the 20th Century D different person. So this is, oh, maybe that's, maybe that's, I heard about Francis Bacon and, and Francis Bacon was basically the mastermind of the modern age, the modern scientific age, the modern age of nation [02:10:00] states, demo democracies.

[02:10:01] He had, so he, he becomes a central figure in the unfoldment of this esoteric tradition as it moves, you know, from the, from its previous hayday and classical civilization with Plato and Pythagoras and Gma Buddha lasu. When you get beyond the mythology of these figures, they were actually all intimately related to the mystery schools of their time and day.

[02:10:23] They were all initiates of it. 

[02:10:24] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. 

[02:10:25] Alex Sachon: So a, as classical civilization fell, and with the rise of the modern age, uh, age of Christianity, which actually coincides with the age of areas moving into Pisces. So, you know, there's interesting symbolism with Pisces, the two fish and some of the symbolism with Christianity of Jesus fish, for example.

[02:10:42] So there's this intimate relationship between the, uh. The Pising age and, and the things that would unfold in terms of our civilization with the rise of the Christian Church. But that old tradition had to go underground. It was forced underground because of the church's dreams of hegemony. [02:11:00] Mm-hmm.

[02:11:00] Material hegemony over the earth. There was an extreme amount of persecution, and some of this is told with the temple story, and there were, there are other, many other stories that are less well known, but were significant at the time in terms of attempts to revitalize this ancient philosoph wisdom tradition, uh, throughout the development of the Middle Ages, and that were squashed ruthlessly by the, the church in their ambitions.

[02:11:22] Luke Storey: And so, d different factions of these groups were kind of go underground. 

[02:11:26] Alex Sachon: So they had to go underground or survive. Yeah. So, so it, so the, so, um, so in this environment, the secret societies, it was like a forced, uh, move into the, the preserve, this knowledge and this tradition of the mystery schools and initiation and things.

[02:11:40] With that said, there was also, once it moved into this new vehicle, now there were offshoots of it as well, that were not authentic versions. And so I think a lot of the concepts that people have of the Illuminati and things like that would be the ex shadow extensions of it. Mm-hmm. 

[02:11:56] Mm-hmm. 

[02:11:56] Alex Sachon: But there was a, a throughput of this.[02:12:00] 

[02:12:00] Sacred tradition and, and, and of these sort of great leaders of it, of history who were actually behind the scenes of history and were responsible for inspiring many of the forward emergences that took place. So there is this underbelly, this story that's waiting to be told about the past 2000 years, about this, this story of the dissemination of this tradition and the role that it's played.

[02:12:25] Well, this bubbles to the surface through this figure of Francis Bacon. 'cause he was somebody who was like a great master in this tradition and, and, uh, was su was certainly, certainly great in consciousness and very expanded, but he also played a very integral role in the British, uh, the development of, uh, British society and the crown and the politics and stuff like that during the late 1500 and early 16 hundreds.

[02:12:52] So he was linking two worlds and he played many important roles in it. Um, but so one thing he did [02:13:00] is he, he was basically the godfather of the modern scientific age and wrote and wrote the books that were disseminated to society. That became the foundation of the scientific method. And he also founded the Royal Society, or his followers founded the Royal Society upon this, this sort of master plan he had.

[02:13:18] And that became the first formal scientific institution, which later got corrupted in material into materialism. But it seeded science as an institution in society, whereas before it, it really wasn't. Formally expressed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then it was only really experimented with in private. So, so that was one role he played.

[02:13:36] Another role that he played is that he led a Society of poets who together wrote the Shakespeare plays. Oh, wow. And the Shakespeare plays have all this incredible symbolism in it. And actually the, if you look at the early editions of those plays, he, he was a master crypto crypto, I don't know what the right word is, but he made dec ciphers.

[02:13:53] He was like a master cipher. And so there are these hidden ciphers in the early editions of the Shakespeare plays that revealed, [02:14:00] oh, there's like a secret koala to it. And that had this Oh wow. And it was a means of communication. It wasn't just a Shakespeare plays, but there, there was a number of important, um, works of literature that came out during that period that was all associated with the Society of Poets called the, um, Knights of the Helmet, I think it was called.

[02:14:16] And yeah, the symbolism in the play and these cryptograms that are woven into the early editions of it kinda revealed this story. So there's evidence of this. 

[02:14:25] Luke Storey: Wow. So, uh, sort of subliminal messaging in a way, or Trojan horsing. 

[02:14:31] Alex Sachon: Well, you think about the time. Of, of society, how, like, how would you convey messages from one part to another?

[02:14:38] You know what I mean? Ah, okay. And, and one of the things that he was involved with, another role that he played is that he, 

[02:14:43] Luke Storey: I mean, is kind of like, uh, early media, right? In a way, right? Or like underground media 

[02:14:47] Alex Sachon: in it was a case way of spreading certain ideas to certain people that you would only be able to read it if you had the keys to deciphering it.

[02:14:53] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[02:14:54] Alex Sachon: And it was very well cleverly hidden. So you, most people reading it would not even know that it was there. [02:15:00] You know, they would just think, oh, that's a typo. But actually there's a pretention, there's an intentionality behind the typo where it is, what page number it's on. 

[02:15:08] Luke Storey: Oh, cool. 

[02:15:08] Alex Sachon: So this very interesting, there's a cool documentary on YouTube about it, uh, of somebody who, a Swedish guy who's very good at deciphering this.

[02:15:15] And he put together this document and it shows you this, this secret Kabbalah that's within it. Another thing that he did was he took, uh, throughout the early part of the middle ages, was this something alluding to something we talked about earlier, how the great cathedrals were built. There was the original form of masonry goes back to classical civilization.

[02:15:34] And it wasn't just, you know, every civilization had their version of it, because we find these great temples structures with this sacred geometry all over the world. So Masonry was originally an offshoot of this shamanic mystery mystery school tradition. It's this wisdom tradition applied to the building of temples, according to this certain Oh wow.

[02:15:53] And it's also where they're located. 'cause the temples are located on these hotspots. Right, 

[02:15:56] Luke Storey: right. 

[02:15:57] Alex Sachon: On the earth grid, you know? 

[02:15:58] Luke Storey: Yeah. [02:16:00] 

[02:16:00] Alex Sachon: So traditionally the philosophy of masonry and those networks were associated strictly with the building profession. And in ancient, uh, old European societies during the hegemony of the church.

[02:16:11] The these, since this group had, were the only ones who had the expertise to build these great cathedrals. They were given space. They're were given a sense of autonomy that no other aspect of society was given. So they would be con, these masonic guilds were, would be contracted by the church to build these great cathedrals like sharks.

[02:16:31] I dunno how to describe it. Sharks great sharks, uh, great. Uh, the, you know, the Notre Dame Cathedral, there's a whole network of these cathedrals. I sharded, yeah, I sharded. But they would, they would be contracted and they would in, in, uh, they would kind of in, in put, put into these designs their own, again, like a type of kabbalahs, cryptic symbolism.

[02:16:52] And, um, obviously there's a tremendous amount of importance to the geo geometry and the location of these places. And there's some really cool books that'll show [02:17:00] you this. And the golden section actually is a very prominent motif in these designs. The golden section's very important to this tradition.

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[02:18:57] Mm-hmm. I mean, it's so, it's so [02:19:00] interesting. Yeah. Especially, especially the older ones. Right. Like pre civilization. 'cause there's no way that the people over here on this continent were, you know, at least we don't think, 

[02:19:10] Alex Sachon: yeah. 

[02:19:11] Luke Storey: We're communicating with the guys over here. Yet at the very same time in these key locations, these energy centers, similar things were happening.

[02:19:19] It's so, so bizarre 

[02:19:20] Alex Sachon: because the priesthoods were communicating and there were communicating by means of consciousness because the mystery schools, you know, it's one field so you can move into that field if you can do it consciously. And then you're right in in the same place. So there really is only one mystery school with different branches.

[02:19:33] Luke Storey: Right, right. Yeah. It's funny 'cause I've thought about that from the hundredth monkey kind of principle. It's like, well, there's enough people over here that kind of understood this thing and set some intention behind building this pyramid. And so it kind of caught on in the field of consciousness to these people over here, even though they weren't directly in communication via sending messages on a ship or something.

[02:19:53] Right. But to your point. 

[02:19:56] Alex Sachon: It was much more intimately. 

[02:19:58] Luke Storey: They had the in, they had the internet [02:20:00] right. Of consciousness. Yeah. They like, yeah. Sending a signal over there to Peru or whatever. 

[02:20:05] Alex Sachon: So the, the pyramids were the Atlassian model that, that's part of an old, the Atlassian model of architecture and design.

[02:20:12] But it's, it's, so the modern cathedrals are just a forward extrapolation of those same ideas and principles, but now meaning a more modern context and designed in a different way. 

[02:20:22] Luke Storey: Right. So, 

[02:20:23] Alex Sachon: but the same, they would have the same effect because they are actually designed to tap into the, this field, but it's not just for free energy.

[02:20:29] It's like you're creating a psychological dynamic environment within which these sacred rituals can be performed. 

[02:20:37] Luke Storey: Yes. Yes. I mean, for anyone that's ever walked into one of these cathedrals, I mean, it's very different energy than walking in Walmart. Right. You know, something's happening in there. Right, right.

[02:20:47] Going back to the, the Freemasons, um, you know, I think everyone today is like, oh, they're all evil. I, I discovered a few years ago that my granddad was a Freemason. He had this weird Me too. He had this weird little red cap with [02:21:00] these 

[02:21:00] Alex Sachon: Oh, yeah. 

[02:21:00] Luke Storey: You know, fringe on it and stuff. And I think, I think my grandma told me at one point that it was, he was like a Shriner or something, but Right.

[02:21:07] Whatever it was. And I was like, he wasn't some evil guy, you know, like part of some cabal or something, you know. 

[02:21:13] Alex Sachon: Well, in the, in the modern form, it's really, it's, it's different than it used to be. 

[02:21:18] Luke Storey: Right. But so, but anyway, the point I'm getting to is. I think, you know, a lot of these organizations probably at one point had a different purpose and a different agenda.

[02:21:28] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:21:28] Luke Storey: And were subverted, right? Yeah. Or offshoots of them, or they were imitated, 

[02:21:34] Alex Sachon: well become an empty shell of what, like they were there, were created for a purpose within the spirit, kind of leaves the body, so to speak, moves, moves on to a different place, and then the shell perpetuates, right? And then, and now you look at it and it's a completely different thing than what it, it maintains the symbolism and some of the rituals.

[02:21:50] But the, the context and the meaning has been removed. And mainly Hall makes this point. And he was in a position to know, because not only was he a mason, not only not later in his [02:22:00] life, in his fifties, he acquiesced to becoming one. He wanted to try to inspire the institution to be higher. And he was awarded every, uh, honor that you can possibly get in Masonry.

[02:22:10] But one of the great mysteries about his life is he wrote one of the most important works in the history of like free Mason, free Masonic philosophy when he was 22 and wasn't even a Mason. And he was lec and he would give these presentations at the Scottish right temple in San Francisco and possibly, also in New York and in Washington and in la.

[02:22:27] So he was connected, but he was recognized as this great teacher when he was in his early twenties and not even a Mason. And he was lecturing 32 degree masons about the, the esoteric meaning of the, of the symbolism that they have and what the true history of Masonry was. 

[02:22:40] Luke Storey: Wow. Going back to the, uh. The cast system as you were talking about how they align with elements.

[02:22:48] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:22:48] Luke Storey: Remember that part? And I think we got to the Brahman. Would that be the air element? Mm-hmm. 

[02:22:55] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:22:56] Luke Storey: Uh, okay. That was really interesting. And 

[02:22:58] Alex Sachon: then the fifth element either is [02:23:00] the idea that in this etheric field, so the idea is that when you're, you are evolving up the consciousness that's, that is manifesting on the planet has to evolve up through each of these levels.

[02:23:13] And that you, that each soul will occupy one of these rungs of the ladder at some point. But the destiny that's moving towards is the synthesis of them, which just comes with the fifth element either. Ah. So then you live in your etheric form, and that's where you get this idea of 

[02:23:26] Luke Storey: holy shit, 

[02:23:27] Alex Sachon: of people in, of like these great sages who are in their energy bodies and can manifest the form if they want to.

[02:23:34] And the whole is history of ancient religion and philosophy is ba is premised upon the existence of these, these great illumine beings in the West. We become disillusioned to the idea 'cause we want them to come and save us. 

[02:23:44] Luke Storey: Yeah, 

[02:23:44] Alex Sachon: yeah. Uh, but there, but when you go into the history of Christianity has its hearts, you know, his great, uh, angelic type of beings, um, Islam certainly has their version of that.

[02:23:55] Judaism has their version of that. We've just lost sight of the meaning. We, we believe that, oh, it's just [02:24:00] symbolic, but actually there is the existence of this. And the reason that they haven't interfered and won't save us from ourselves is for the reason, the exact reasons we were talking about earlier.

[02:24:10] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. Beautiful. Well, dude, I feel like we could go on forever. Probably have to do some more of these. So interesting. I just dig the way you think about things and, uh, the work you've put in to learn 'em. I really appreciate it. 

[02:24:27] Alex Sachon: Thank you. 

[02:24:27] Luke Storey: Yeah. 

[02:24:28] Alex Sachon: Well, I should tell you the, um, the kind of initiative I have going forward is I just started a nonprofit that I, that Oh, cool.

[02:24:35] It's called Solomon's House, but I want it to be what I, I wanna turn it ultimately into a, a philosophical think tank to take these great pressing issues of mankind, but bring this kind of philosophical insight, but have to try to have influence and try to bring in leaders, in stakeholders in these different areas and try to bring these ideas to 'em.

[02:24:52] So, um, so that's, that's the goal of the organization. But in the short term, I'd like to start doing kind of small events, conferences, [02:25:00] documentary, stuff like that. And, uh, so I've been talking to, uh, Aubrey and Cal and, uh, Kyle about possibly getting involved doing something here in Austin. So 

[02:25:11] Luke Storey: Epic. 

[02:25:12] Alex Sachon: I would love to, 

[02:25:12] Luke Storey: let's do it.

[02:25:13] Alex Sachon: Bring you on. Yeah, 

[02:25:14] Luke Storey: let's do it. Well, we'll put, you know, links to all of your stuff in the show notes at luke story.com/wisdom so that people can, you know, dive into more of your work and let me know how I can support the initiative. Awesome. I'm all for it. I mean, it's just like, think this, uh, you know, I, I, I'm a very idealistic, I think in fantasy a lot, but you know, imagine.

[02:25:35] Rather than the Rockefellers creating the education system, we just hand it off to a guy like you. You know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's like, well, 

[02:25:43] Alex Sachon: that's the, that's the goal is to have, 

[02:25:44] Luke Storey: these are the things that 

[02:25:45] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:25:46] Luke Storey: Are important. These are the things we need to learn. Yeah. You know, beyond, I mean, it's important to know how to change a tire and grow a care.

[02:25:51] Right. Whatever, you know, stitch a wound, et cetera. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's things you need to know in life, many of which I don't, but, uh, [02:26:00] to me this is like, this is the core of it. Yeah. It's like really understanding of what makes us tick. 

[02:26:05] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[02:26:05] Luke Storey: Why we're here, what this whole system, well, for me, is about 

[02:26:09] Alex Sachon: all this, the umbrella that contains all this is philosophy.

[02:26:13] And so in my, like the point of the organization, but the point of all my work is I really believe that we desperately need a philosophical renaissance. That philosophy is this institution philosophy is basically the. Uh, the birth of the child of this mystery school system. And when, when the institutional philosophy was born, because the word actually comes from Pythagoras, it was, it was born in 600 bc, the, the word.

[02:26:34] And, and he founded the first like, modern philosophical academy or really the first of its kind. Um, but it is interesting. He existed, this is underrated effect of history. He existed at a time of the great world teachers, it was called. And he, like, within the same a hundred years, Gaab Buddha emerged in, in India, Latu emerged in China.

[02:26:53] And, and they weren't the only ones. Basically every region of the world had their own version of a teacher come out and disseminate a new school [02:27:00] or new doctrine of teachings that before had been confined into the priesthood in this mystery. Ah, right. And so philosophy becomes the kind of an externalization of this.

[02:27:07] So collectively, it's all philosophy. 'cause they all have, have the same secret teaching, same worldview at the heart of it. And so, uh, so that was the originally intentional philosophy and the context within which philosophy emerges. It's not what we consider it today. Which is just means intellectualism and it has no role in our society.

[02:27:26] That's important, right? Like basically it's a non-factor. And this is the thing that I think we desperately need to change. 'cause philosophy for me is as important an institution as science and religion. And in fact, these three are intended to go together. And each part only has its proper place when the triumvirate is in place.

[02:27:43] But the philosophy component in this is completely missing. So religion's on its own and struggling science is on its own caught materialism. And 

[02:27:51] Luke Storey: they're antithetical. 

[02:27:52] Alex Sachon: And the only way that they can communicate and you can have, uh, religion moving into science and science moving into religion, is through this inner meeting bond of philosophy.

[02:27:59] Whoa. [02:28:00] So we need a philosophical renaissance. And so that's the, the mission of this Trinity work towards that Trinity. 

[02:28:06] Luke Storey: That's the Trinity dude. 

[02:28:07] Alex Sachon: That's the Trinity. 

[02:28:08] Luke Storey: Wow. So, I mean, I'm gonna be reeling so many things have, uh, you've lit so many little fires in me. It's so fun. I just, when I think, ah, I kinda, I don't know.

[02:28:20] I know what I need to know. Mm-hmm. And I talk to someone like you and I'm like, wait, what? It's a whole other thing I haven't even tapped into, you know, it's, I've never thought of philosophy. That's how I think of it. I'm like, ah, that's the intellectual. It's like they don't, they don't understand God, you know what I mean?

[02:28:33] They're just like masturbating what their 

[02:28:35] Alex Sachon: Right. Exactly. And 

[02:28:35] Luke Storey: yeah, with their words and writing, it's like, ah, they're all caught up in their head. That's how like, honestly, how I would think about it if you were like, what do you think of philosophers? Eh, 

[02:28:44] Alex Sachon: yeah. Like in my book, I'm like, A philosoph Alex second.

[02:28:46] And it's like, I know that sounds pretentious and like ridiculous, but then when you get into what I'm trying to say, it's like, oh, that makes sense. Like if you represent this view, then it's like that's how you actually adequately become qualified to be a philosopher. I Manly Hall was the philosopher. 

[02:28:59] Luke Storey: I [02:29:00] think you, you would, you've earned that title.

[02:29:01] Alex Sachon: Yeah, I hope so. 

[02:29:02] Luke Storey: I, I, if I can ordain you, I will. It's funny 'cause I had that in my, you know, I can never write bios and I'm like, I don't know. You know? Every week. I'm, I don't know, I'm into something different. You know, I don't have like a thing. 

[02:29:13] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:29:14] Luke Storey: But at one point I had philosopher, because I was kind of doing some writing around bigger ideas and 

[02:29:19] Alex Sachon: Well, it seems, it seems like the work you're doing is orbiting around that.

[02:29:21] Luke Storey: I, it is. And I didn't even know it. 

[02:29:23] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:29:23] Luke Storey: But I think I took it out. 'cause I was like, ah, I don't really, I haven't earned that. I mean, I only finished seven grades in school. I don't think, you know, I think I gotta know a little more history to use that word, you know? 

[02:29:33] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:29:34] Luke Storey: But yeah. Anyway, man, um, oh, you know, we don't have time, but another time I'd like to get into Carl Young.

[02:29:42] Yeah. Which is, I know another one of your top dogs. 

[02:29:44] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:29:44] Luke Storey: Uh, and, uh, one that I know very little about. Mm-hmm. Um, but, um, one story that I love from Carl Young, which kind of speaks to the, the limitation of philosophy or psychology in, in the realm of addiction. 

[02:29:59] Alex Sachon: [02:30:00] Mm-hmm. 

[02:30:00] Luke Storey: Um, and you, you may or may not have heard this story, but, uh, I'll, I'll paraphrase it and try to condense it.

[02:30:06] So at some point in, uh, I don't know, it was probably the, the fifties, I would assume. The co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, bill Wilson was in touch with Carl Young, and they were mm-hmm. They were pen pals, you know mm-hmm. To some degree. And, um, Carl Young, in a roundabout sort of way, had a lot to do with the origins of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[02:30:28] Mm-hmm. In that he was treating, I think he was in, was he in Austria? Is that where he practiced or. 

[02:30:34] Alex Sachon: Switzerland, 

[02:30:35] Luke Storey: Switzerland. Okay, so he's in Switzerland. Uh, there was this, uh, wealthy, you know, this rich kid who was an alcoholic, who's, I believe he was from the uk or maybe he's American. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

[02:30:47] His name was Roland Hazard, right? Mm-hmm. He's like a figure in the aa tome of history. Yeah. So Roland Hazard is way pre aa, right? So Roland Hazards is drunk, but he is got a rich family. He can't get [02:31:00] sober. They're trying to help him. So they send him to see Carl Jung. He goes over there for a period of time, gets treated by him, everything's going well.

[02:31:06] Leaves gets drunk on the way home. 

[02:31:09] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:31:09] Luke Storey: Family sends him back, tries it again, gets drunk on the way home. That guy. Oh. And what Carl Young told him through this Roland Hazard kid, he said, man, I, you know, I've given you everything I've got in terms of my wheelhouse of tools. I have been unable to help you.

[02:31:27] He said, but I have heard throughout history that people like you that are so afflicted, have been able to find reprieve through a spiritual experience. 

[02:31:37] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:31:38] Luke Storey: Transcendent experience. Mm-hmm. Whether you, you know, go find God basically is what he told him. Like, this is outta my hands. You're in the God realm of problems here.

[02:31:45] So this Roland Hazard guy goes back to New York or wherever he, he went and, um, ends up finding this group called the Oxford Group that was kind of this non-denominational, um, new thought Christian science sort of movement. Right. [02:32:00] That were based around groups and kind of, uh, testimonies and confessionals kind of an early model of 12 step groups or group therapy.

[02:32:07] Mm-hmm. But with a Christian theology, 

[02:32:09] Alex Sachon: right? 

[02:32:09] Luke Storey: He goes there and gets sober. He meets this other guy and they start talking and that guy goes and he gets sober. And that guy was one of Bill Wilson's drinking buddies who later comes back to Bill Wilson is like, Hey, I found God, I got sober. Bill Wilson gets sober.

[02:32:31] Just he goes to the hospital. His whole story. But anyway, 'cause Carl Young couldn't help this guy. That guy went and got sober through this spiritual group, met another guy. That guy went and carried the message to Bill Wilson. But, 

[02:32:43] Alex Sachon: but in a way he did help him 'cause he planted the seed that the addiction is a substitute for the emptiness that comes from a lack of 

[02:32:49] Luke Storey: Yes.

[02:32:49] That's where I'm going with this. Okay. So it's, it's so cool. So years later, some, you know, bill Wilson has come to some prominence as, you know, the co-founder of this [02:33:00] organization that's starting to spread and is reputable and successful. Right? And so they get in touch somehow. And Carl Young writes in this really beautiful letter letter, which is very, you know, well documented in the history of aa.

[02:33:12] He tells 'em that story and what, you know, that wow, you know, I remember treating this guy hazard and it didn't work, yada, yada. And what young writes to him that's so poignant is he said that. You know, again, I'm paraphrasing. I I actually wanted to bring it up and read it 'cause it's much better than I could ever say it.

[02:33:31] But the essence of it was what you alluded to, he said that what he determined that was alcoholism or addiction is a thirst for God. 

[02:33:38] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:33:39] Luke Storey: And then he talked about the word spirits and the, you know, the origins of that word in spirit to is like without spirit or something. Right. Right. And so it's like even the, the word that we use for alcohol, spirits, this guy had a hunger for God and he was trying to drink his way there.

[02:33:53] Right. Young recognized that sends him off, the guy finds God. And then millions and millions of [02:34:00] us 

[02:34:00] Alex Sachon: Right. 

[02:34:01] Luke Storey: Have found sobriety through finding God because of that 

[02:34:04] Alex Sachon: mm-hmm. 

[02:34:05] Luke Storey: Chain of events. So interesting. But what struck me about it was also his humility. 

[02:34:10] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:34:10] Luke Storey: Right. To be someone, you know, as a prominent guy and now he's, you know, was revered then and now, and he was like, Hey man, I gotta admit, like this is, this is beyond my level of professional expertise.

[02:34:22] Yeah. You know, you're in the God range now. And, and his humility is what led this guy to actually go get help. Yeah. And then, you know, the sequence of events after that led to so many other people also being helped in the same way. 

[02:34:34] Alex Sachon: Mm-hmm. 

[02:34:34] Luke Storey: So that's, that's really all I know about Carl Young. Like that guy was, that was dope, you know, prepared 

[02:34:39] Alex Sachon: to see that.

[02:34:40] Luke Storey: Yeah. Isn't that, isn't that cool? If I can, you could, I'm sure you can look it up. I'm sure it's available. But, um, yeah, the, the letter that you wrote, I mean, it's, it's, it's not long, but the way that he, um, you know, just communicated, that was really beautiful. 

[02:34:54] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:34:54] Luke Storey: Yeah. Super cool. One of my favorite stories.

[02:34:57] 'cause ultimately, like, you know, I, I'm on [02:35:00] the end way many generations at the other side of that. Mm-hmm. Who's, you know, I mean, I would've certainly met my demise a long time ago had I not found those principles. You right. Anyw, who, uh, last question for you, my friend. It is probably gonna be real easy for you 'cause I know you have a couple great teachers that you, you know, uh, study and follow.

[02:35:20] Um, who have been three teachers or teachings that have really impacted you in your life? 

[02:35:25] Alex Sachon: Well, two of 'em are easy. We talked about 'em. Yeah. Uh, Manley Hall, number one, Carl Young is right. Uh, not there with Manley Hall, but I would say he is a strong number two. Um, I only really had one mentor in my life, and I don't even know if she would vibe with, I haven't talked to her in a long time.

[02:35:43] It was the old teacher I had in high school, but, uh, so I don't know if she's probably not familiar with the stuff I do now, and I don't even know if she'd be into it. But, uh, early on when I was in high school, my teacher Heather Jel was, uh, a, a big. Played a big part in like, [02:36:00] kind of shaping my awareness and of issues, particularly, I think I told you earlier on, I became like motivated to understand the world crisis and I was, I took a bunch, I took a bunch of classes.

[02:36:10] She's the one who went on the China trip I mentioned too, at the end of high school. But, uh, yeah, she played a big role in kind of put start at the very, I don't know, I think in the hero's journey archetype, they have that person who kind of like pushes you out the guide. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then early on she was like a, a formative person that shaped my journey that would come.

[02:36:31] So I would point to her as my third 

[02:36:33] Luke Storey: cool man. Yeah. We all need the guide. 

[02:36:35] Alex Sachon: Yeah. 

[02:36:35] Luke Storey: And you, you meet 'em at different levels, you know? Yeah. I've had many of them. And then you think like, yeah, I'm kind of this, I always go through them like, yeah, I'm kind of past the phase of guides. Like I think I got this shit figured out and then I reach some other existential crisis.

[02:36:47] I'm like, all right, who's the expert on this thing? Right. That I haven't figured out. And many of those guides for me have been, uh, medicine man, the plant teachers. Right. You know, the spirit of those things like. Beyond human [02:37:00] phenomenon. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, so anyway man, thank you so much. Look forward. It's enjoy.

[02:37:04] Thank you. Look forward to learning more about you and your work. Yeah. And hanging out. Let me know how we can support here in here in Austin, Texas. Yeah. And I'm sure me and many other our friends will be down. 

[02:37:12] Alex Sachon: Sure. Awesome.

[02:37:17] Luke Storey: Alright. Life Stylist Nation, big ups to each and every one of you for joining this conversation. Wherever you're listening or watching, hit those buttons. You know what I'm talking about, like, follow, subscribe, 'cause I know you don't wanna miss what's coming. And if you enjoyed this episode, please drop a rating and quick review.

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