Luke Storey: [00:00:02]I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to mydeepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerfulprinciples of spirituality, health, psychology. TheLife Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and theexperts behind them with you. So, how do you determine what to call yourself?That's what we were chatting before the official beginning of the recording.

Peter Crone: [00:00:32]Yeah. I think it sort of reminds me of, I was telling you, I'm doing thismastermind with a group right now, which, it's just so moving and what'sactually occurring in this container is so powerful. But at the beginning, as Iintroduced myself and, of course, they know who I am by virtue of the fact thatthey've signed up for this six month journey with me, you know, I sort of gavethem a trailer of coming attractions by saying, "Obviously, you know I'mPeter Crone, The Mind Architect." But I later revealed that I'm not that.And so, there's sort of a little tongue in cheek in there, but it's also to letthem understand the misnomer of any kind of label. You know, if you want to goeven deeper, I'm not even Peter. That's a sound. So, certainly, why would Ihold on to a particular title? And helping, you know, a lot of pro-athletes andin their transition into retirement, the association with the title can becomethe attachment to the perceived value. Now, of course, there's the actualundertaking of whatever their skill is. But when I'm no longer a professionalathlete, or I'm no longer a mother or a father because the kids have fled thenest, the perceived value that was associated with that title suddenly becomesdiminished, and that person goes into a slump or depression or they're lost.But if they can recognize, "Well, that's just a chapter of my life where Icalled myself a professional athlete and I'm curious to see what the nextchapter is and what I might call myself." So, I think it's probably whatwe're going to dive into, but the power of language and how it becomes thecontainer in which we function and sort of the reverberations of a way ofviewing ourselves, our personal reality, our personality is based on thelinguistics that we've invariably adopted or inherited through our childhood.But then, they become the very sort of the fortresses in which we're stuck.

Luke Storey: [00:02:16]Isn't that interesting? Paradoxically, in the form of language as acommunication tool, and that it's so powerful and expansive and allows us tomove forward, but in the same way, by contrast, can also become a trap,especially the self-identification with titles.  As you were speaking, Iwas thinking of, "Oh, there was a period of my life when I was reallyattached to being a musician." So, people say, "Hey, who are you?What do you do?" I say, "I'm Luke. I'm a musician. I play bass. I'm amusician." And then, as that started to fall away and I lost interest inthat, maybe I wouldn't have had been more successful in terms of making it acareer, but at one point I was like, "I'll let that go." And then, Ibecame a fashion stylist. And, you know, there was this egoic sort ofattachment to that, even though it wasn't even something about which I wastruly and deeply passionate. It's kind of something I fell into and soundedgood on paper, and it was kind of cool to tell people at parties. And I waslike, "Oh, I'm a celebrity stylist."

Peter Crone: [00:03:12]Right. I thought I have the celebrity part.

Luke Storey: [00:03:14]Yeah. No, because if you just say stylists, they think you do hair and they'relike, "Oh, do you do color and cuts?" "No, no, no." Andthen, you have to explain what a stylist is. But, yeah, to the earlier point wewere kind of starting to explore, it's difficult when you don't have a way tolabel yourself, especially if you, yourself, are a brand or you're having somekind of professional persona, you need to be able to communicate that when youget booked to speak or come on a podcast. When I do the intro for this, I wouldhave to say, "Our guest today is Peter Crone. A -" fill in the blank.But as a continually evolving person, like I know you are and I am, it's like,"God. It's kind of a moving target. Who am I? What do I do? I don't evenknow." 

Peter Crone: [00:04:00]I love writing in quotes and that's how distinctions sort of invariably comethrough me. And I say, you know, "Words are both the lock and thekey."

Luke Storey: [00:04:08]Oh, that's good. That's good.

Peter Crone: [00:04:09]So, I would assert my superpower is sort of really in listening. And so, whatI'm listening for is these stories and narratives that people will come to mefor, like an athlete who's scuffling, or having the yips on the mound as abaseball player, or a golfer who keeps missing the cart, or an executive whodoesn't have good control of his staff, or whoever it might be. They'll tellthe story, but really that's symptomatic. Like, a good doctor, a real doctor,part of my work is Ayurveda, what we call Vaidya, is somebody who would be ableto look at these subtle symptoms and sometimes less subtle and be able to sortof reverse engineer and go, "Okay. Well, where did that actually arisefrom?" So, if someone's dealing with anxiety - I never deal with anxiety.I couldn't care less about it - I know that that points to a deeper constructthat they're stuck in. Invariably, it has something to do with insecurity, Idon't feel safe in my environment. And then, we can correlate that to someexperiences in a house where maybe mom or dad were mercurial, there wasinconsistencies. Dad would come home drunk and he would make a lot of noise.And for a child, it was just very unstable. And so, their relationship thatthey developed to environment was I fundamentally don't feel safe. And, now, asa 30, 40, 50 year old, could be earning plenty of cash, and maybe have statusin a company, but they struggle with anxiety or social anxiety. And so, why I'msharing that as it relates to the words of both the lock and the key, is that,the words that have created the lock, that is the precursor, the containerwithin which anxiety is and sort of an inextricable experience is somethinglike I'm not safe. Now, they're not walking around saying I'm not safe. And yetthat programming, that code, at the subconscious level is nonetheless thebedrock of the way they think, feel, and act that gives rise to that sort ofconscious experience. So, that's sort of the art.

Luke Storey: [00:06:00]And to describe their felt sense of being, they label it anxiety.

Peter Crone: [00:06:04]Yes. Or it could be depression, or we can speak to addiction, or whatever it isthat anyone's dealing with, or that they don't feel they're getting sufficientincome based on their own perception of self-worth, or the relationships keepcrumbling, whatever it is that humans deal with, it's usually a pretty smallbucket. There's five or six topics of conversation for humans, and then thenames change, the location, shape, it's my relationship, it's my health, it'smy career and my money. So, for me, what I love doing is being able to sort oftake somebody to that blind spot that got triggered or formulated, sort of verysimilar to epigenetics, but really sort of what I call emotional epigenetics.So, there were certain triggers externally that turned on the construct thatthen people became stuck in, that their manifests in their real life issomething they're now trying to solve, which is too late. Again, one of mycatchphrases, "I don't solve problems. I dissolve them." And thedissolution has the key, in words, the lock and the key, the key is that we uselanguage, or at least I do, to be able to help them to see you've been livingfor 20, 30, 50 years in the construct of I don't feel safe. And that gives riseto the way that you relate to life. And they're like, "I've had that therefor 20, 30 years."

Luke Storey: [00:07:18]I think people with your ability - and I'm not sure that ability to a lesser orgreater degree - a really good listener, it's listening for what's behind thewords. It reminds me of Tony Robbins when he does these interventions. And I'vebeen to a number of his events, and I'm always like, "Get to the partwhere you do the intervention." That's my favorite part. Because that waslike, "I'm pissed at my boss and I'm stuck here and stuck there." Andhe's like, "No. It's this." You know, he picks up one word or somenuance in their body language and he finds the story under the story. I findthat to be just a fascinating skill that some people have, and I sense that youhave a bit of that, too.

Peter Crone: [00:07:55]Yeah, for sure. I would say that's pretty much the tenant of my whole work, thecornerstone of what I'm doing with people. Like, even in this mastermind, as Isort of briefly explaining to you prior to this, I'm working with someone butI'm simultaneously teaching people about what I'm doing. But in my world it'slike I kind of know where they're stuck and they can't see it. So, there's acertain degree of grace and compassion that's required in that process. And I canbe pretty direct, but I want to be able to help them see it. So, I'll askquestions around it, Where did you feel that when you were younger? Can youremember a particular incident where you felt like you weren't sufficient oryou weren't enough? And so, it is definitely an art form. But to see the light- I can understand why you love that moment - come on, it's insane.

Luke Storey: [00:08:40]It's the best.

Peter Crone: [00:08:42]It's never gotten old, over two decades of doing it. Even in this mastermind,the one particular person I was helping that I was telling you about, like, shecame back the next month and we're only meeting once a month. But people werelike, "Wait. Is that you? You look totally different." And it'sbecause she is. The version of her that was in a conversation with me at thebeginning literally died. And that sounds very esoteric, but the identity thatwe think ourselves to be is what gets in the way of what we're ironicallylooking for.

Luke Storey: [00:09:13]So, I used to have a teacher that would use this really intelligent but covertway to circumvent the defensiveness of the ego. This was early in addictionrecovery and it was a mentor of sorts. And he would talk to me about someoneelse's neuroses and describe it to me. And observing their behavior, not in ajudgmental way, but just observationally. And he would use that as a way tospeak to me. Because I was, you know, curious and there was a nature of inquiryto it that would allow me to not be defensive or close minded. And he startdescribing someone else's behavior patterns and things like that, and then itwould instigate me to kind of be going, "Oh shit. That's what I do."But if he just came directly and said, "You know what? You're reallymanipulative or you're a people pleaser," or whatever manifestation waspresenting, it would have been too confronting. And in his wisdom, howeverflawed he was in hindsight in many other ways - God bless him - he was reallyskilled at that. He really understood the nature of ego and all of its gamesand defensives and just how elusive it can be. And so, that's one tool that heuse as he would talk about other people. And it was almost like gossiping. Itwasn't necessarily to a group. To me, like, "Oh, did you notice he didthis and that and that?" And it would be like a way to pull my coverswithout me knowing he was doing it maybe until years later, I'm going,"Oh, I see what he was doing." And I've even adopted that to somedegree when I sense that I have the ability to convey an insight to someone butthe doors closed. Without being invasive or too coercive about it, there are anumber of different tools that I think can be really useful.

Peter Crone: [00:11:04]A hundred percent. I mean, I can remember being on contract with a major leaguebaseball team, and I would only check in with the team periodically. Andwhenever I was there, the medical staff, which travelled with the team, youknow, home games, whatever or away, they were fascinated with the process. AndI actually helped a lot of them discover some of just the tools incommunication, like simple questions you can post. But you said about the door,it sort of reminded me of one of the analogies I gave them. I said,"Listen, if I'm the world's greatest interior designer and I'm known forthat, like there's a certain prestige that's out there in the world, I'm stillnot going to bust into somebody's house and start rearranging the furniture."If you're in this state, you're going to get shot, depending, and many others.So, as a metaphor for helping, especially with something as subtle andsensitive as the psyche, I would always remind the guys, you've got to knock onthe door gently or ring the bell, and see if you get invited in to make somesuggestions as to how they could perhaps refurnish their place.

Luke Storey: [00:12:07]That's so good. That reminds me of one tactic I used when I was a fashionstylist - a celebrity stylist.

Peter Crone: [00:12:14]Yeah, yeah. Let's not forget that.

Luke Storey: [00:12:15]You'd work with someone, especially people that had some notoriety and they aresurrounded by yes people, and so they get this sort of inflated sense ofauthority and self. Yet the powers that be, say, their manager, agent, label,movie studio is in my ear going, "Man, you've got to change the way theydress. They have bad taste," whatever it is. And so, there was this sortof trick that I developed that I later ended up teaching my fashion students,which I did for a long time. They would say, "Well, I want to wear thisand I want to wear that. And here's what I brought and here's what I think thislook would be." And rather than saying like, "Oh, no. That doesn'tlook good." I would say something to the effect of, "Oh, my God.That's awesome. That's so cool. Let's put this over here on the rack and thencheck out this other thing that I brought. This could be cool, too." It'sjust like this nuance of saying the same thing, which is basically like,"That is horrific looking. You're not wearing that." But rather thanshooting it down, just kind of giving them some, in hindsight, sort of falseprops. But just kind of ushering in the idea that I thought would serve thehighest purpose of that. 

Peter Crone: [00:13:21]There are different ways that we relate to people, right? So, in that case,it's professional, maybe it's someone you've met before, or they know you,they're aware of your abilities. So, it really speaks to the element of trust.Because the degree to which that relationship, in your case, over time becameenhanced or strengthened and there was affinity, is probably the degree towhich you then don't need strategy. So, it's just a nice thing for people to beable to understand that if you're still employing those tactics and you'remarried to someone, like, you've probably got issues.

Luke Storey: [00:13:55]Totally. Totally. No, that's a key distinction.

Peter Crone: [00:13:58]It really is.

Luke Storey: [00:13:58]When I'm thinking of those situations, it would be in the very beginning of aprofessional relationship. And then, after, hopefully I succeeded in givingwhat they ultimately wanted and they got positive feedback about their redcarpet thing or the music video, then that trust would be built. And ratherthan them walking in like, "Oh, who are you? You don't know who I am andwhat style I want." They would start to be more receptive and it wouldbecome more collaborative. Less of those tactics were necessary. That's verytrue.

Peter Crone: [00:14:26]And I think it's a nice thing just in the nature of doing this podcast wherepeople would go, "Oh, okay. Where is the absence of trust in therelationships that are important to me, at least?" So, of course, itdoesn't have to be jobs down the street. But, you know, if there's that absenceof the ability to be fully self-expressed in a way that's authentic and honest,then there's something to look at, because there's going to be a fundamentalfear that is either something about the way that you feel you can't expressyourself or the concern for how someone's going to react. And either way,that's a threat response. And I would actually invite people then to consider,as I often say, then you don't actually have a relationship. I just did thelittle stage event here and I had someone came up and she was very kind abouttalking what she's dealing with. I had everyone think of a problem or two intheir life. And I wanted to help them see they don't have any problems. Theyhave a conversation about reality.  And it dissolves the whole constructof a problem. You've got circumstance and then you've got resistance to it.That's what you call a problem. It's not over if there's no circumstance.

Luke Storey: [00:15:25]Oh, that's good. Yeah, I like that.

Peter Crone: [00:15:26]So, she very kindly got up and was talking about this current situation forher. It was about whether she's got the right partner or not. And she was veryvulnerable, and it was great and it was very helpful for the group. And what Ipointed out is, I said, "So, in your analysis, and you're like, 'I get it.You're trying to figure things out.'" And whatever the context was for herto try and figure things out, like the future, family, whatever, I said, "You'reactually in a relationship with your own mind as it relates to who you think hecould or should be. So, you're not actually in a relationship with the personwith whom you're sort of studying as to whether you should be in a relationshipwith them." And for her, it was quite pivotal. She's like,"Wow." And I said, "Yeah. Don't worry. It's like most people,they're in a relationship with their own mind and not with the actualhuman." And invariably the relationship, unfortunately, is quite deleterious,because it's like they should do this or they shouldn't have done that. There'sthese sort of regrets and resentments because of history. And you're no longereven present to be with the person that you're apparently in a relationshipwith. So, it gets very complex at that level. But having that understanding ofthis sort of the sliding scale, the gradient of trust, and for people to evenjust from this, hopefully, be a little more aware of it, it's like, "Oh.Who is it with whom I feel the most free to express myself authentically?"And that's a great place to use as a reference point. And for most people, thedegree to which they can truly be themselves, or at least what's real for themat this moment, it's amazing how many people feel this sort of thwarted energyand inhibition to being able to just say what it is. And I invite people to,you know, look at that, because it's a shame, because then you're either beingstingy with yourself and your true feelings, and you're certainly not reallyconnected and have that affinity that I say we all want. We want to have thatbond and that love and acceptance. So, the whole thing about trust and thestrategy is just a beautiful segue for people to go, "Oh wow. It'samazing. When I'm with my best friend, I can sit around in my boxer shorts andtalk about anything." But even when I'm with my own mum, you know,somebody might be saying, "There's so much I hold back because I don'twant to upset her or I don't think she approves of me." And I'm like,"Well, that dynamic right there means you're not actually in arelationship, and that might be worth something fighting for."

Luke Storey: [00:17:40]That's very interesting. I like that perspective. It's sort of like the rolesthat we find ourselves enshrined in, and as you start to break out of thoseroles - I've observed this in my own experience - it becomes much morenoticeable when other people are caught in their role. And I experience thismost profoundly when someone's in a uniform, for example.

Peter Crone: [00:18:04]Okay. Like a police officer chasing you?

Luke Storey: [00:18:06]Yeah. Or just there's a guy at my local Kinko's FedEx office, and it's strangebecause he's a young guy. He's got fully tatted arms and stuff. He seems likehe could be a normal guy you could just kind of treat normally. But every timeI go in there, I'm like, "Hey, what's up, dude?" And I just try to bepersonable and real with him. And he has this persona that he puts on. I'm notjudging him. It's just an observation. But it's the role of the guy that worksat FedEx, "Hello, sir. How are you? What can I help you with today?"I'm like, "Hey. How's it going, dude? Just chill. Yeah, I want to sendthis thing." And I try to break him out of that role just as a funexercise, and he will not budge out of that role. You know, I respect hisprofessionalism and whatever's motivating him to do that, but it's justinteresting to observe. And then, I can reflect and go, "Oh, what roles amI still playing? Am I playing the role of spiritual guy, or biohacker guy, orpodcast host guy? Where am I sort of drifting from my authenticity? And am Ibehaving differently or coloring my persona according to external inputs likewho I'm around? If I'm around a certain ethnic group, am I trying to relate tothem more? You know what I mean? Or am I treating the CEO different than thejanitor? Or can I just learn to have the integrity of authenticity and just bethe same Luke to the best of my ability, no matter what the circumstances are,and not have a role, and be malleable enough to allow myself to evolve withouta role and to be able to discard them, like the roles we were talking about interms of having a title. It's fun. It makes life dynamic.

Peter Crone: [00:19:42]It is. And it also it makes you present. Because even in the absence of,perhaps, the freest version of you, like you noticed in front of a person inuniform or a CEO, you make some subtle adjustments. Even if you're playing thegame, you're aware of those, too, sort of that self-reflective ability to beable to see where am I playing a part that I think is appropriate for theenvironment I just stepped into, which is a reactive mindset? I'm not sayingit's wrong, but it's reactive. So, one of my most popular quotes I say,"Life will present you with people and circumstance to reveal where you'renot free." And, to me, that's the whole paradigm. So, you're going to bepresented with people and circumstance to reveal where you're not free. So, inthe context of the game that you play, which I love, the opportunity for Luke -which, of course, we now know is not who you are, it's just a sound - is whereare you being triggered, which we could equate to not being free. So, even withthe guy at FedEx, which sounds like sort of almost noble and part of yourconscious elevation role, is there the absence of your own freedom that issomething for you to look at versus he's being professional. I mean, this goesdown the rabbit hole, which is why he's so excited to just sit with you I feelwas sort of overdue for this conversation. But it's the distinction betweenwhat I fundamentally call a reactive life or a creative life. And so, mostpeople are living in reactive life, which is based on past constructs andprogramming that they're invariably trying to get away from. I'm reacting tothe fact that in my previous relationship with somebody, it didn't go well. Or,even, my father didn't express that much love, so I'm going to become the mostloving father. And I've heard that from many people. Or, you know, I got myheart broken in the last relationship, so I'm going to make sure that I'm alittle bit more protective. So, it's always informed by history, which meansthere's actually no evolution. And that, to me, is one of the most depressiveenergies to be in because you're basically sort of a Groundhog Day in yourmind. Creative, is that I am the actual source, S-O-U-R-C-E, of existence. Andso, it becomes like I speak reality into the world versus perceive a world,which is still my own perception, and then speak into it. So, it's subtle, butit's profound. So, that way, as I use language, I'm going to say, "Words,you start to realize they're actually creative, not descriptive." And whenyou really get that, it's so subtle.

Luke Storey: [00:22:20]Interesting. It's so descriptive, being sort of already past tense.

Peter Crone: [00:22:24]You're describing how your mother-in-law acts or you're describing how yourspouse is. And so, nothing wrong with this, but it means you're actually - touse a metaphor - driving a car and always looking in the rearview mirror. Andthen, you wonder why you keep running into shit, which you've probably heardbefore. So, it sort of we're being informed by history. And I can describe theevents of my relationships or my career or the things that have happened. But Iinvite people to consider, what would it be like if you realize that, like,abracadabra, you know that expression and you know it's translation, is, as Ispeak, so I create.

Luke Storey: [00:22:58]I didn't know that.

Peter Crone: [00:22:58]Magic.

Luke Storey: [00:23:00]That's cool.

Peter Crone: [00:23:01]Isn't tat cool? Abracadabra, so, as I speak, so I create. And I can rememberbeing in London. My mind, why it's gone there, I don't know. I haven't thoughtof this one moment for a long time. This is about 20 years ago and I wasworking with someone at this beautiful golf club and spa. And I was helping herunderstand how in the way she was speaking to me, she kept creating thecontainer that she was apparently there to see me to get out of. Because herlanguage kept reinforcing the very issue, which is invariably the case. Youknow, sort of whatever you focus on tends to sort of exacerbate. So, we got toa point where she'd broken through some of that, the lock and key metaphor. Shesaw the lock, I used the key, and she said, "Oh." And she just had toexcuse herself and go and use the washroom. And she came back in with this bigsmile on her face. And I was like, "Wow. That was either your bladder wasreally full and you're incredibly relieved or you just had some epiphany."And she's like, "No. I just saw what you were saying. There was anotherwoman in the bathroom with me, and as she went to get some paper towels to dryher hands, she knocked something over. And she said, 'Oh, I'm just soclumsy.'" But because of the new point of reference, the person I washelping, she saw she was creating her reality. Now, she was probably, like, inmid-40s, but maybe when she was seven, eight, nine, her parents had said,"Oh, you're so clumsy." And she took that on as a form of programmingas part of her identity. But this woman, because of her new lenses she'slooking at, she's like, "Wow. I just saw that she created right there thatshe's clumsy." No. You just knocked something over. It's like in TheMatrix, that scene where he goes to see the Oracle. It's so powerful. And shesays, "And don't worry about the vase." I don't know if you've seenthat. But Neo is standing there, so she says, "And don't worry about thevase." And then, because he's like, "Well, what vase?" He turnsand knocks it over. So, it's so powerful to understand how the words areactually creating the container in which we live that then we become confinedwith, and then we're trying to escape, not realizing that we're the ones thatactually created it.

Luke Storey: [00:24:57]How did you get into who you are in the work that you do? What's yourbackground?

Peter Crone: [00:25:04]A lot of suffering is my background. No. I'd say, all kidding aside, there werecertain events that I went through that were so pivotal in ways that I didn'tunderstand at the time. So, my mom passed when I was seven. My dad died when Iwas 17, went to work one day and never came back. And I was an only child. So, Iwas orphaned before I was even 18. And at that point, I got to have what Iwould assert is the visceral experience of what most people experiencepsychologically. And by that I mean, the identity that we associate ourselveswith, we can call the ego, is by design a separate entity. So, someone can bemarried or they can even have family, but their experience of life is, I feelalone, I feel lonely, I feel isolated. Even though as far as anyone else isconcerned, they have a beautiful family, they've got kids, and blah, blah. Andthat's invariable because we're stuck in the lens of our own persona. So, forme, it was quite literal because there was no family. There was no one. So, Isort of had this visceral experience of what it means to be alone that wasn'tjust ego. It was quite literal. And I can remember standing even now, standingin my bedroom as a 17 year old boy, and I was pretty quiet and shy as a kid.And, you know, I don't want to be melodramatic, but it's like the worstexperience any human being can have. You're familiar with Zach Bush - I'm sureyou are - he talks about the Laws of Thermodynamics. And the second law isabout the entropy that occurs when any body is separated from another one. Andso, that's why they put people in solitary confinement. It's almost like it'sthe worst thing that can happen. You know, jail is one thing. Solitaryconfinement -

Luke Storey: [00:26:44]Even that study that I've clumsily referenced, but a study where they separatedinfants from their mothers and the infants died. I forget what the study was,but it's a famous study, where just the absence of human connection and touchactually caused these infants to perish.

Peter Crone: [00:27:04]Yeah. The Second Law of Thermodynamics. So, for me, it was sort of like myversion - at the time as a 17 year old - of course, I was oblivious to this isall subsequent that I had the experience, and the study, and the wisdom, thatcame to mind to go, "Oh, wow." So, to answer your question, I thinkthat was the catalyst, one, for my own profound experience of suffering, butalso the depths of compassion. Because somebody doesn't necessarily have to gothere, but I get what they're experiencing just by virtue of the lens they'relooking through. So, that was pivotal. And then, later, like when I was around29, I had a girlfriend who, for me, at the time was sort of this quintessentiallove experience, as best as I understood love, which was very limited, but Iwas a very loving guy. And we dated and there was a series of events, sort ofwe were on again, off again for a minute, and then we came back together. Andit was sort of like, "Oh. This is the best." And we had a beautifulrelationship for about a-year-and-a-half, two years, and then she left. Youknow, I'm missing out a lot of the story. But, basically, her rationale wasthat you love me too much. And she said, like, your love is suffocating. And Iwas still a very sensitive guy, but I was like, "Wait. That doesn't soundlike a problem." Like, if there's so much love, you know, that sounds likea decent problem to have. I'm not saying it's ideal. But I went through thisperiod of about two months that was really desperate men doing desperate things,calling my friends, how do I get her back, what do I do. And, literally, Icouldn't sleep. I lost weight. I woke up one night and I actually screamed atmy own mind to shut up. That wasn't neurotic, but it was a trying time. Anyway,cut to I was just sitting at my desk in a rent controlled apartment in SantaMonica, and I had these incessant questions going through my head. One of whichis, Where is she? Is she dating someone already? Will I see her again? And willI ever have love like that? They were the sort of the main pillars of myconcerns. And in one sweep, I got the answer to all the questions. And it was Idon't know. Where is she? I don't know. Is she dating someone already? I don'tknow. Will I see her again? I don't know. And will I have love like that again?I don't know. And it was so categorically the truth that there was no denyingit. And for the first time in my life, I realized that the very fabric of thelife itself is uncertainty. And, yet, by virtue of being human, based in these principlesof insecurity and inadequacy and scarcity, our little brain is always trying tofigure out uncertainty, which is exhausting. Which, I know you can relate toknowing your history a little bit and even what you spoke to on the stage,which was so eloquent. We're trying to figure out, which is really we're tryingto find security, which is futile because the nature of life is uncertainty.So, in that moment, not only did I get the answer to the questions that havebeen keeping me up at night, but I also saw the actual fabric of life. Youknow, if you want to get sort of celluloid, like I saw the code in The Matrix.And I felt a freedom that cascaded through my body in a way that I didn't evenknow was one possible and that subsequently never left me. Now, I've hadglimpses, of course, of dipping back into other things to look at. But it waslike, "Oh. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen." Andfor the first time, not only did I realize that the very nature of life isuncertain, the future is unknown, but I was totally okay with that. And it wastotal peace. And so, that really set the stage to come back to a question ofthat was my "training," was life giving me sort of the proverbial,spiritual two-by-four around the face in a very loving way, but super profound.That from that moment forth, I recognized the distinction between the fabric ofphysics and life, and then the design and the structure of an ego, which youhave the fabric which is uncertainty. And then, you have the very rudimentaryfeeling of insecurity, the ego, which wants certainty. And to see the theconflict and the paradox of the two, I realized all anyone's looking for isthey just want to feel safe as one principle. Beyond that, you can call it loveor peace or freedom, but they're all synonymous to me. They're all sort ofbedfellows. So, at that moment, they all cascaded through me. And sort of thetipping point of the beauty of the story was, I hadn't spoken to this girl forabout six weeks. For the first two weeks, we've been talking and I'm, like,waiting for the "Okay. I'll come back," or whatever, it neverhappened. So, the six weeks have gone by. And within 15 minutes of me havingthat moment, she calls me. And I had a landline. I don't think I even had acell phone back then. But she calls my landline, I pick it up, and she's nowcrying saying, "I miss you so much." And I immediately got theentanglement of the whole thing, because I hadn't, as I was talking aboutearlier, really been in a relationship with her. The epiphany that hit me, thesuffocating love, was the adaptation, the coping mechanism that I had for thedeep, profound fear of loss because of my mom's and dad's passing.  So,the love that I had in sort of an inherent way with very loving parents that wasripped away that left that boy very hurt, was my sort of kryptonite, I willnever lose again because that hurts too much. Find love as best as I knew it atthe time. So, my perfect boyfriend behavioral adaptations, my compensationskills, albeit very authentic, had that undercurrent of real fear. You wouldn'thave seen it on the surface, but that was the energy that she felt was thesuffocation, because it wasn't authentic love. And so, at that moment, I wasactually available because I was no longer trying to control an outcome. Inthis case with her, I was trying to control the avoidance of something, whichis the worst form of control. When you're trying to control an outcome to getsomething that's subtle, energetic differences. But I was trying to avoidsomething. So, she, in ways that she couldn't have consciously known, suddenlycalls me within 15 minutes of me having this experience, and she couldn't befurther. She was in New Zealand. I was in Los Angeles. I don't know how thehell she got there, but she's literally the antipode on the planet to speak tothe power of there's no distance in time. So, she literally is calling, crying,"I miss you so much." And all I got at that moment is like, "Oh,finally I'm available to you." So, that was, I would say, the veryfoundation of how I got to where I got to.

Luke Storey: [00:33:20]What were you doing professionally at this time?

Peter Crone: [00:33:23]I was a trainer.

Luke Storey: [00:33:24]Like a physical, personal trainer?

Peter Crone: [00:33:26]Yeah. Celebrity fitness trainer.

Luke Storey: [00:33:28]Really?

Peter Crone: [00:33:29]Really. Yeah.

Luke Storey: [00:33:30]You were living in Santa Monica and -

Peter Crone: [00:33:32]Traveling all around the world with a couple, very renowned. I mean, peoplecould Google it in a second. But, yeah, they were making films all over theworld and I kept them svelte for five years.

Luke Storey: [00:33:42]And how did you fall into that line of work?

Peter Crone: [00:33:46]Again, just my karma, my destiny. I was a trainer in Pacific Palisades at aplace on PCH and Sunset, which you're pretty familiar with. It used to becalled Pacific Athletic Club, then it became Spectrum, and now I think it's BayClub. But just opposite Gladstones there. And I had, as my undergrad, studiedhuman biology and exercise physiology. So, for me, transforming a body was likea piece of cake. I understood the inner end, the chemistry, the biology, themovement, the biomechanics. So, it was almost to the point, it wasn't like itwas boring, but it's like, "Really? You need someone to help you?"And then, I understood that they really did. But a buddy of mine - I was livingin this rent controlled apartment, the very same one that I was talking aboutmy story - and he said, "Look, I don't know anyone who knows more aboutthe body than you. Like, if you get certified, I'll give you a job as atrainer." This was prior to my gig as a celebrity trainer, I was workingin a bar down near the pier. And, you know, it was fun. It was a summer. But itwas sort of a little bit below my pay grade. And so, I said, "Okay.Fine." I got qualified as a National Academy of Sports Medicine Trainer.He gave me a job in the gym. And I was always incredibly hard working. I didn'thave a car. I had to borrow a pushbike to get to work from Santa Monica. I wasriding up PCH in pouring rain, trucks going by me. I'm like, "If ever Imake this, this is going to be a good story." And, yeah, within fivemonths I'd had such an incredible roster of clients with great results. The GMcame up to me at one point and she said, "We've got two new clients foryou." And I was like, "Sure. Bring it on." I actually found ajournal from back then - and I'm sort of showing my age, as I said, that wasabout 20 something years ago. It's about 26 years ago - and I was seeing 13clients a day, like that's an hour workout. So, I would have my first line at6:00 in the morning and sometimes the last one at 8:00, and somewhere in theregrab a snack. So, I sort of kind of had this quiet admiration for how hard Iwas working. You know, I didn't have a penny to my name. My parents weren'twealthy. They didn't live me anything. So, anyway, the GM - just to go back tothe point of the story - she came up to me and said we got a couple of new clients,and I'm like, "Sure. Bring it on." And she said, "No. These arevery special clients. They're Bob's clients." And everyone knew Bobbecause Bob had this celebrity couple as his trainees, but he was a dad and hewas tired of all the travel and he had had it in his resignation. They said -going back to the trust thing - "We trust you. Would you help us to find areplacement?" So, I was thrown into the interview pool of about three orfour on the trainers. And I knew as soon as they mentioned the names, I justintuitively knew I'd get it because he was particularly athletic, and I hadcoached tennis for a while, and I was a strong skier, and they had a place inthe mountains. And I was like, I didn't know, know, but it was an intuitivesense there. That was the previous career for five years, travelling around theworld, Australia, and England, and New York, and it was fun.

Luke Storey: [00:36:36]And how did that evolve into the work that you did now, the deeper work, kindof the personal training of the psyche and soul as I'm starting to gather? It'sinteresting to, like, sit down and have a conversation with you because I don'treally know a lot about you. I know that we have many mutual friends and everytime I've seen you, I perceive you to be warm, articulate, kind, intelligent,interesting, inspiring, just an energetic thing.

Peter Crone: [00:37:02]Thank you.

Luke Storey: [00:37:03]But it's funny because I really research people before I sit down and talk tothem usually. And I was like, "Yeah. Peter Crone. Everyone knows him. Iactually don't." So, thank you for indulging me. But as you weredescribing to me earlier, you have this mastermind program, there's 400 peoplein it. And I'm like, "Oh, wow. How did that evolve?"

Peter Crone: [00:37:23]It's been, like, the speed with which the trajectory suddenly in that realm ofsocial media and stuff, that's all happened quite quickly. And I'd assert it'sjust because of the resonance of what I'm saying, it's really hitting people.Like, even here, like you, people have very kindly came up to me and they'relike, "Oh. Can I get a photo? I love your work. Your work has changed mylife." And then, some people - I was on a panel yesterday - who came upand they're like, "Wow. Like, there were a couple of things you said thatjust really hit me and it's just changed everything." So, I think thatdynamic that's occurring is what's allowing for, like, 400 people to sign upto, you know, a not cheap mastermind. And it's been nice to be able to reachpeople in a way that otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do. So, in terms ofgoing from body to mind to soul, it was sort of a natural progression. It'ssort of going from the gross to the subtle and realizing - what I would call -that cascade of creation. So, if somebody has something physiologically goingon, let's take a skin rash, it's an external, it's an exogenous expression ofsomething that's going on internally. In this case, they have too much heat inthe blood or they've had too many spicy foods. Because part of my work is inAyurveda, so that also has contributed to my ability to read people and look attheir body. But through the lens of these Eastern philosophies, I was like,"Wow." If you're really going to look at what someone is dealing withsymptomatically, physically or symptomatically emotionally in their life, yougot to understand what was the cascade of events that led to that. And so, Ijust kept going one step deeper and one step deeper, and go, "Okay. Wehave this physical issue, but where is that coming from? Oh, okay. You'reholding on to a lot of resentment." And that's because of the relationshipyou have. Your view of your mother should have been different. And so, you'recarrying this anger which is expressing as heat and sometimes would manifestcancer or whatever it might be. And so, I just kept going back and back, andthen I finally found what I would assert, and this is I'm writing a book andI'm going to delineate the ten primal prisons of the subconscious.

Luke Storey: [00:39:19]Oh, cool.

Peter Crone: [00:39:20]Yeah. So, one of which is, like everyone can relate to, I'm not enough. Andthat manifests in different ways. You can either go straight into it. And I wasactually on a podcast making this distinction and the guy was like, "Wow.I never even thought of that." And I was saying, "You look at ahomeless person on the street who succumb to maybe some booze, and then weed,and blah, blah, blah, and it's progressed to heavier drugs. And now has kind ofbasically lost his life or her life. And then, you look at the guy in thecorner office who's driving a Mercedes and running around in his Guccisuits." I say, energetically, there's a very strong possibility they'reboth being informed by the same prison. It's just one has gone into it and oneis constantly trying to deny it, but they're both informed by it. And he'slike, "Whoa." I said, "Yeah. So, the guy who's in the corneroffice who needs ambient at night to sleep and he needs coffee or some sort ofenergy drink to get going. And he doesn't really have a great relationship withhis wife or his girlfriend. And she's really just sort of a trophy. It's anextension of him thinking he's not good enough, but he wants to be seen andattractive." You start to see all the dynamics. It looks good on paper,but actually it's not that far different. If we were to look at the actualqualities of their relationships, particularly with the father, usually they'renot enough, because that's more the disciplinarian energy. It's like, "Oh,wow." Like, they both had this sort of high school ass type dad who, youknow, sort of pointed out where their insufficiencies were. Yeah, you wentthree for five at baseball but what happened to the other two hits? Or B-plusis good but why didn't you get an A? Like, subtle things that parents don'tunderstand. But for the child, the interpretation is the inadequacy, that thensort of grows like a cancer, but emotionally. So, that was really the processof my work was getting back to these fundamental prisons and then recognizingthe adaptations that we have from them. So, I could become a perfectionist or apeople pleaser as an adaptation to not being enough or equal. As I said, youcould go right into it like, "What's the point? No one gives a shit. I'm justgoing to end my life." And they might seem like extremes, but I wouldinvite people to consider they're on the same continuum. They just manifestdifferently.

Luke Storey: [00:41:27]In terms of the manifestations of some of these root issues, what has been yourexperience of people in the throes of addiction and alcoholism?

Peter Crone: [00:41:38]Yeah. So, it gets really deep - and, you know, we can probably talk anothertime - so beyond the ten prisons, there are what I would consider two sides tothe same coin. So, I'm not enough is the more positive expression of - what Icall - self-negation. So, when I'm not something, like I was talking aboutearlier, somebody has anxiety, their container might be I'm not safe. And theygrow up in a family, as I said, where there was this inconsistency and therewas raised voices or screaming or the dad and the mom would fight, they createthat container. So, the not enough, and this is one of the prisons that I dosee with people with addiction, it's the antithesis but the darker side of it.So, you can think the not enough is it's bad. Like, I'm tired, I'm alwaystrying to be a perfectionist, and I'm exhausted, and I can never get thingsdone. But the flip side is, it's not that I'm not good enough, it's that I amsomething. So, the negation of self is one thing that's hard. But thedeclaration of self as a negative, in this case, I am bad, is much darker. Doyou see that?

Luke Storey: [00:42:48]Yeah, I do. I mean, I'm reflecting on my own.

Peter Crone: [00:42:51]No, no, no. I'm not going to do it in front of you, but -

Luke Storey: [00:42:54]My own experience reflects that, for sure. So, like, a lot of that rooted inshame, childhood trauma equating as I'm different, there's something wrong withme, I'm bad, I'm unlovable, I'm worthless.

Peter Crone: [00:43:07]Yeah. They're all sort of like these bedfellows.

Luke Storey: [00:43:11]That's really interesting.

Peter Crone: [00:43:12]But as it relates to addiction - and I have my own take on addiction - thequote I use is, "An addiction is something you can never get enough ofsomething that almost works."

Luke Storey: [00:43:22]Yeah.

Peter Crone: [00:43:22]And so, that's that perpetual chase. It almost works, whatever it is. Like,"Oh, that felt good for a minute."

Luke Storey: [00:43:27]Because if it worked, you wouldn't have to keep doing it addictively, right?Like, "I did heroin one time, it took care of it for life."

Peter Crone: [00:43:33]Yeah. But the ultimate addiction is what we're speaking to, which is the ideaof yourself. And in this case, the addiction would not be the substance, butreally the trauma that was the catalyst to turn on the self-perception that I'mbad. And sometimes it could be the literal hearing of that. The declaration ofa parent of like, "Oh, you're so bad." I mean, some kids - you know,it breaks my heart - actually hear things like, "You're a mistake. Wenever wanted you." You can imagine that, right? So, that would be reallythe dark side of you're not loved. Not loved is not fun. Like, I don't want towalk around life feeling I'm not loved. But feeling like you're trash or you'rediscarded is the darker side. Like, "I'm not good enough. No, I'mbad." So, the declaration of something negative is much heavier than thedeclaration of something good but negative version of it. Does that make sense?So, I am bad versus I'm not good. Subtle but very different. So, when I workwhere I've helped people with addictions of any kind, invariably they're in thedarker side of the fundamental prison. And that's why invariably the reliefthat they seek isn't sufficiently found through their own free will. Somebodywho's not good enough will just keep working themselves to death to become aperfectionist or get the right body. They'll do the surgeries, wear the rightclothes, you know. But it's still exhausting, but it's not to the point ofcomplete self-deterioration that can happen in the darker side. So, whensomebody is in the prison of I'm bad, it just takes a little bit morecompassion, patience, and kindness for them to be able to see that it's still alie. Basically, what I'm doing is I'm revealing the lie that is the foundationfor who you think you are.

Luke Storey: [00:45:16]In your experience, have you seen anyone who is in the throes of legitimate,chronic acute addiction sustained recovery solely based on self-knowledge andself-understanding and an unraveling of these root causes that you'redescribing versus having a direct spiritual experience?

Peter Crone: [00:45:41]I have. It's few and far between because I make the distinction in my work ofthere are two predominant stages. One is awareness and then, two, is practice.So, you know, for you even, I would assert as I was speaking, as you said, it'sa resonance. And maybe even in the way that I've used some words, it gives it alittle bit of a cut to all the work you've done, meaning a slightly differentangle. It's like, "Oh yeah. I could see the way that I've lived. Theconstruct that I've been stuck in is Luke is fundamentally bad." And then,it's like, that's where your foot's nailed. And then, you do everything you canto manage that, you know, be a nice guy, be a good boyfriend, try and be niceto your parents, or whatever it is. But it's a compensation. Meanwhile,nothing's being addressed. So, the awareness is to bring light to bringsubconscious to conscious. So, now, "Oh, shit. I, for 30, 40, 50 years,have really not even believed, but who I've been is bad. It's not something Ibelieve. It's who I am in my personality." And that's why people can'tescape it. That's the ultimate addiction. It's like you're not walking aroundgoing, "Hi. I'm Luke. I'm bad." But you're concerned about like,"Okay. Well, I don't want to give this guy this clothing, even though I knowit's better for him because I don't want him to get mad. And then, I look badand then I don't have my job." That's how it presents. So, when you startto see the awareness part, "Oh, wow. I can remember the moments thatcontinually got reinforced. my dad said this, the teacher said that, mygirlfriend said that." And it's continuing this narrative of who I amfundamentally is bad. That's the awareness. And the relief that comes fromthat, because then I take people through an exercise and I'll say, "Okay.Well, where am I going to find that? Is it part of your manufacturinglabel?" It's not a truth. It's a story, and you've got all the evidence tosupport it. Then, it's the practice of who would you be in the absence of thatconstraint? And that's the invitation to become a new person, which isn't easy,you know, because it is the death process of the constraint that you were in.Literally, when I'm working with somebody, as they see the possibility and thefreedom and the relief, their breathing patterns, their physiology, if I wasmonitoring their blood pressure, all of that would change. They literally arebecoming physically a different person by virtue of the fact they're lookingthrough a different lens. It's beautiful. But the habituation of the patternitself, as you know, still got momentum. And so, that's the practice part. Justlike when I worked with actors, it was fun because they were doing this for aprofession. They would have to take on a character with all of the differentidiosyncrasies of that character. And if they did it well, we as a viewingaudience, bought into it. Tom Hanks plays a gay guy dying of AIDS inPhiladelphia, and he gets an Academy Award. He did it that well. But deep down,he knows he's straight, he's married, and he doesn't have HIV. But the depth ofthese constraints are much harder to overcome because they started at agethree, five, seven, and normally they've got 20, 30 years of progressivereinforcement. So, that's where the practice of who would you be in the absenceof that previous constraint. "Oh, my God. I don't even know. I feel sofree. I feel light." And then, you start to live from that place, and thatbecomes your new persona.

Luke Storey: [00:48:45]That last piece right there, who would you be without that, reminds me of ByronKatie. I don't know if you're familiar with her work.

Peter Crone: [00:48:52]Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen some of her stuff.

Luke Storey: [00:48:53]She's a prior guest on the show. And her work is profoundly simple andeffective in equal measure. It's like, "I'm mad at Peter because, youknow, he embarrassed me in front of this person." And then, the inquiryand her questions is, "Is that true? Did he embarrass you?""Well, yeah, he embarrassed me." "Is that really true?" Youkind of go down this thread. And, ultimately, with most situations you arriveat, "Well, I can't really, really know that to be true. Perhaps I just hada feeling inside and I perceived it to be that he said something to downplay mysignificance or something." But then, at the end of that inquiry is,"Who would you be without that thought? Who would you be without thatbelief?" And I love watching her work with people. I think I saw her inthe early '90s for the first time when I was still, like, wildly addicted andinsane. There was something in the process that she went through with people onstage where I was like, "I don't know what she's doing, but I likeit." I couldn't quite grasp it, but it's at that moment, who would you bewithout that? "Well, gosh, I would be free. I would be fulfilled. I wouldbe in love. I would experience joy." And then, in that moment, it's almostlike, "Well, why the fuck are you hanging on to what you believe to betrue that's likely not?" And sometimes it's just like a simple littleframe shift like that, that, seemingly, on its surface, insignificant butsubjectively to the person having that realization can move a mountain.

Peter Crone: [00:50:27]It's so impactful. And that's the ultimate addiction. And it's where - again, Iuse a lot of expressions and quotes - I say, "You can't be heldaccountable for that which you're oblivious to." And that's where thecompassion comes in, because people will point fingers, "You shouldn't dothis." Well, if you had to work on air conditioning, you'd be doing exactlythe same thing. So, I would never have the audacity to tell people what to do,but I can point out why they're doing it. And then, they can become empoweredin the way that they see, "Oh, I've been doing that forever.""Yeah. Well, it's because you live in this fundamental construct of someform of negation that you're not there, so you're bad." And so, that's theultimate addiction and that's where being able to sort of inquire into thetruth of that. So, there is definitely a correlate. Someone has actuallymentioned that before, they saw my work, and I love the correlation becauseI've seen some of her stuff too. And I think we do it slightly differently, butit's really a fundamental inquiry into the truth of your own perspectivebecause it's a lie. That's ultimately why it can't be sustained over whetherit's one lifetime or many lifetimes. Because the primordial imperative of anyorganism is to survive. But in this case, the ego survival is based on its ownidentity because it's fictitious. So, in order to sustain the identity of theego - that hit you, right?

Luke Storey: [00:51:40]Yeah. That's great.

Peter Crone: [00:51:41]Isn't that great?

Luke Storey: [00:51:42]Yeah.

Peter Crone: [00:51:43]So, you have to come to either to tell the story. Like I was saying, words aredescriptive for most people, which is they sustain the story, they get to beright consistently. Or you have to keep manifesting environments andcircumstances to give validation to your own story. Because that's the way thatthe ego sustains its existence is being right about its own perception. And itwas the most fascinating thing in my work, having done this for two decades.It's like, "Wow. I just keep seeing that people would actually rather beright about their inadequacy than just be free."

Luke Storey: [00:52:11]Totally. It's like a chorus of miracles. You have to make the decision. You'reinvited to make the decision. Would you rather be right or would you rather behappy?

Peter Crone: [00:52:17]Right.

Luke Storey: [00:52:18]You know, that one principle for me has been so impactful. I mean, I think Ihad to hear it once and it was, like, that's one of the things that lodges inthe subconscious. And find myself in the midst of a conflict in which,"God, I just got to win. I have to teach them. I have to show them. Evenif they don't know I won, I need to feel like I won." And it's like,"God, all I'm looking for in that victory or perceived victory is just thesense of relief and peace." But I could have that by just stopping thefight. You know what I mean? Another Byron Katie thing that's great, she says,the defense is the first act of war. It's like so much of the stuff that westruggle with is just we perceive it to be at times a war with other people orcircumstances. But as you indicated earlier, this is all just this innerdialogue. It's this inner war that we're fighting only because we don't knowthat we're doing it.

Peter Crone: [00:53:07]And that's where the compassion comes in, which is why I said you can't be heldaccountable for that which you're oblivious to. And I think for a lot ofpeople, that helps to shift, even in people that they are in relationships withor they love, they can see them, their mannerisms, their idiosyncrasies, butthey're looking from a position of judgment. And I think it's one of thegreatest shames in relationships because people will verbally say, I love theperson, or even to them, "I love you." But energetically there's thissubtle judgment. They're making them wrong for something. And in that, sort ofthere's a disparity. There's the delta between what I'm proclaiming is love.But actually my energy and my approach and my behavior around you is actuallyquite judgmental. And I saw that with the girl that I was talking about as wassort of the catalyst for my own awakening, if we want to call it. That sounds abit melodramatic, but it was pretty, pretty profound. I had, in ways that Ididn't even know, a very loving, kind guy, very generous. I had actually beenmaking her wrong subtly, not like overtly. We never fought. I wouldn't saythings. But energetically, there was this question of like, "Well, whyisn't she getting a job? Why isn't she helping out?" Or some people mightbe as mundane as like, "Why aren't they taking the trash out?" Butthat's a form of warfare, to use the term from Katie. It's like because you'rein resistance with reality. And that really is the bedrock of all suffering, isthat I'm in fundamental conflict with the way things are. And we think it'svery sort of enticing and tantalizing to think that it's out there. Like,"No, no. I'm really upset because of what they said." Well, if youbreak down the physics of that, it's actually impossible, really, to understandthe mechanics of how you have an experience. It's like if they were speakingChinese and they said the same words, but you didn't understand, you wouldn'thave got upset, right? So, the same data points are out there. But the way thatyou're interpreting it through these fundamental prisons as a perceived threat,is what's generating your own internal terrain shifting into what you'recalling I'm pissed off. But it's not because of something. And when you reallyget that, it's so empowering because I'm no longer a victim of anything. Itdoesn't mean I condone behavior. It doesn't mean I want certain things. But I,personally, in the way that I attend to my internal state, I don't want to be avictim of somebody else's behaviors.

Luke Storey: [00:55:21]It's like that tendency that we sometimes have to say,  "Well, youmade me feel. You made me mad. You made me this." And I love that whensomeone says that, it's funny to me because you think, "All right. Peter,right now I'm going to make you be angry. It's like I literally cannot causethe feeling to take place in your physiology, mind, body, emotion. Like, I donot have the power to make you feel anything." But your interpretation ofthe words that I use, the sounds that I make vocally have the ability to dothat within yourself. I mean, if anyone can just get that, you know, that'shuge.

Peter Crone: [00:55:58]That's massive.

Luke Storey: [00:55:59]Because with that responsibility that we can take for our own inner experiencecomes absolute power to change and to become free, or at least one of the keysteps, if not the whole kahuna is the mastery over one's perception.

Peter Crone: [00:56:17]So, can I invite you to step into a bit of freedom with me?

Luke Storey: [00:56:20]Yeah. Let's do it.

Peter Crone: [00:56:21]So, taking the same principle, you just pointed out the darker side, you know,"I can't make you angry." But I'm going to take you back to the FedExstore. So, now, what you just shared with me, which was super accurate, and I'dsay astute, where can you see you're playing the same game, albeit looks likethe more philanthropic version?

Luke Storey: [00:56:47]I don't know.

Peter Crone: [00:56:48]So, you said I can't change your feelings, right? You can't make me angry,which might look like that more hostile approach to manipulation. I'm trying topiss him off. I'm trying to press the buttons. We could argue, as the consciouselevator, that when you go into the FedEx store, you see this guy who's stiff,and how are you, and he's very professional. But there's a subtle judgment,albeit with, as I said - you got it now?

Luke Storey: [00:57:10]Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And it's funny because there's twosides of this. One side is, just as a human behavior experiment and just totest sort of the power of love and the power of kindness. As I'm out on my day,see if I can elicit a different experience with and for someone. But in asituation like that, there is an element of judgment. You're absolutely right,because I walk in there, I'm like, "You fucking stiff. Come on, actnormal."

Peter Crone: [00:57:43]Thank you for being honest.

Luke Storey: [00:57:44]Yeah. There's an element of control. Like, "No. Be who I want you to bebecause I'm free and authentic and just being me." Then, you need to joinme in that or, otherwise, you're a stiff and you're boring me at FedEx. Beinteresting.

Peter Crone: [00:58:00]Thank you for the invitation that I offered to let me help you find somefreedom. So, what you just said there is so beautiful and it's the mostauthentic version of that story, which is -

Luke Storey: [00:58:11]What if the FedEx guy listens to my podcast? Because there's only one guy withtattoos, you know. Sorry. I apologize for my judgment of you. Forgive me.

Peter Crone: [00:58:19]It will be the segue to a beautiful conversation where you can even be morevulnerable with him and apologize for your behavior. Beautiful. And that's whyI gave you the benefit of the doubt and say it's a more philanthropic version.It's like a mother who wants her child to be happier. It looks like it'swell-intended, but for where that person is, based on the trajectory of theirkarma, they're not happy at this moment. And so, it's where can we findsomebody where they are? And what's even more subtle in your story is, beforeyou walk into the FedEx office itself, there's sort of a predisposition in yourpreparation, which means you're stuck in your history so the guy doesn't evenhave a chance. So, now, you've lost your moment to be where you are.

Luke Storey: [00:59:00]Because I already have a perception of him as the stiff that never breaks to mygenerous kindness.

Peter Crone: [00:59:07]Yeah. So, now, we get to see you, not him. So, what's exposed in that sort ofsubtle and under the guise of loving, I want to be blah, blah, blah, which isall valid, but it's still got a subtle energy of manipulation. So, what doesthat say about your persona? What is the underlying current? What are youreally trying to achieve there?

Luke Storey: [00:59:31]I don't know. What comes to me is like a sense of control.

Peter Crone: [00:59:35]Yeah. That's the mechanism. But what's the intended outcome? What would itprovide Luke if he was more happy go lucky and free and loving?

Luke Storey: [00:59:47]God. I don't know. I guess just a greater sense of ease and fluidity.

Peter Crone: [00:59:52]Yeah. I would assert you'd feel more comfortable, you'd feel more safe, you'dfeel more seen, which we could put under a bigger umbrella of I'd feel morefree and loved. So, if that's the intention, and that's the desired outcome,and the agenda of your subtle control, what are you actually thereforereinforcing if that's what you're trying to get?

Luke Storey: [01:00:15]The converse of that.

Peter Crone: [01:00:17]Which is?

Luke Storey: [01:00:18]Contraction. Yeah, that's the word that comes to me kind of uptightconstriction, which is what I'm judging him about. That's the annoying thingabout the guy. I'm not really annoyed. But as an exercise.

Peter Crone: [01:00:38]Absolutely. We're exaggerating everything.

Luke Storey: [01:00:40]I have 100 percent judgment, like, "Come on, dude. I've been in here tentimes, like, act normal. Be the way I want you to be, because this is not fun.This is boring."

Peter Crone: [01:00:49]And this is why this is so beautiful and I'm so happy that you're just who youare and you're so available, because the irony is your judgment of him is thathe's not being free. And yet the very space from which you're coming is notfree. Because you're not allowing him just to be whoever he is. So, this is sogood. And I really hope you get something from this and maybe you'll re-watchit. But you're such beautifully intended outcome, what you're saying is, inorder for me to be free, I need you. It's personified in one guy. Really, it'sgoing to be everywhere, because it's obviously going to be a trigger for you. Ineed everybody else to be free and act in a certain way, because I'm free andI'm committed to being free. But the subtle energy is I'm actually not free.And until you're free, I can't be free.

Luke Storey: [01:01:41]Right. Right. Yeah.

Peter Crone: [01:01:43]So, that's the ultimate addiction.

Luke Storey: [01:01:45]That's really good.

Peter Crone: [01:01:46]Awesome. So, now, my question is, is it true, yes or no, that you can't befully free in the presence of somebody who's not free? Is it true? So, I'llphrase it differently. So, is it true that you can't be free whilst he'soccurring to you as quite stiff? Is it true?

Luke Storey: [01:02:06]In the ultimate reality, no. But based on that dynamic -

Peter Crone: [01:02:11]Based on your current conditioning, I got it. But in terms of the biggerpicture, because this is the invitation, right? This is the awareness we'restepping into is like, "Wow. I thought that I was doing the consciouselevation part and I'm like the almighty guy walking in here bringing freedomto this guy who's so stiff and boring."

Luke Storey: [01:02:26]He's not interested in my freedom.

Peter Crone: [01:02:28]He's more free than you are because he's not trying to change anything.

Luke Storey: [01:02:31]Yeah. He's happy being in his role.

Peter Crone: [01:02:33]Because there's a certain degree of, obviously, being oblivious. So, as youcontinue to go through these different tiers of awareness, it sort of becomesmore subtle. But I just love that we're having this conversation because itjust speaks volumes about your commitment to your own freedom, otherwise thiswouldn't be occurring, which is like, "Oh, my God. I'm the guy judgy. I'mthe stiff. I'm the one who's not free because I'm not okay with the way heis," which is the absence of freedom.

Luke Storey: [01:02:57]Right. That's so good. Really, that's so good. I love it.

Peter Crone: [01:03:01]So, now, what is the possibility for Luke going into metaphorical FedEx store?What do you see right now as being possible in the absence of the need to makeanybody other than the way they are at that moment.

Luke Storey: [01:03:16]Well, actually an appreciation for the phenomenon of someone playing a role andjust the observation of that. It is an acknowledgement that that's okay anddoesn't need to change. And maybe even just to enjoy that as an experience or acuriosity. I wonder what's going to happen today when I go in and there's a guythat I formally judged is kind of stiff, that I can never get to just be realwith me or be free with me. Would it be interesting if I go in there withoutany expectation and then, all of a sudden, he starts being really free.

Peter Crone: [01:03:52]He's like, "Hey, dude. I see you all the time. Do you want to grab a beersometime?" Like, that would be a shock to your previous condition.Whereas, now it's available. And that's what the portal is to possibility.Because you said it, curiosity, to me, is in the absence of the need to try andcontrol things. You actually step into what I would say is more the childlikesense of exploration of, like, let's see what happens. And there's a joy aboutthat. You don't know to what degree. He might be listening to a podcast. Hemight be in a fight with a wife. He might be sitting down with a therapist. Andit's a catalyst for him to suddenly see something about the way he shows up atwork. And you don't know that. But if you walk in with your previousconditioning, which is all based in history, for that reason it's stagnant,which gives you heaviness, and that only reinforces the need to think,"Shit. By now I got to get the guy free because you're the one carryingthe weight." Versus, if you continue to be in harmony with this moment andnot know what's going to happen, then it's always a fresh opportunity to justdiscover what's actually going to transpire.

Luke Storey: [01:04:48]Yeah. Much more interesting.

Peter Crone: [01:04:50]Isn't that beautiful?

Luke Storey: [01:04:52]Peter, we have a few minutes left here because I know you have to catch aplane. You know, in all of this framework that you're creating, cultivating,exploring here today with me and our listeners, where does spirituality fitinto this framework? Where does God fit into this framework? Where does thepower, the driver of the change come from outside of just a psychological,intellectual understanding, like wordplay and observation and all thesedifferent perspectives? In your life or in the core of your work, is there aspiritual core or a practice or something that is contributing from that pointof energy?

Peter Crone: [01:05:39]All of what we just discussed, to me, is from that space. So, the distinction Imake is between the absolute and the relative. What we've been talking about isthe relative, but we need the relative to access the absolute. Absolute, to me,is interchanged with God, or consciousness, or spirituality. The unified natureof life is, to me, spirituality or God. There's no separation. The relative,like I was saying earlier, my experience as a 17 year old standing in the roomwhose parents have died, is the relative. I'm by myself. And so, Luke, the individualidea of yourself is the one that's trying to change his environment in order tofeel comfortable. But when you're a part of the environment, then there'snothing to change. And, in fact, we could argue that the attempt to changeeverything around you is itself that catalyst for suffering, because you'rebasically in denial of reality. Everything is the way it is.  One of myquotes, again, "Everything is the way it is, but only always." Butthen, to what degree of people always trying to change the way things are? Now,that does not deny the fact that you can be committed to something, likesomeone's building a building, or they're building a business, or they'recommitted to a beautiful relationship and they see a future trajectory,amazing. And, again, I say, you know, we're all masterpieces yet works inprogress. So, it allows for both. But if people don't have the fundamentalacceptance and harmony with the way things are, then they're going nowhererapidly. So, that, to me, is the fabric of spirituality. That is without usingwords, to me, that's exactly where I function from, is that there's no problem,everything's unified, and all I'm doing is dissolving what the perception isthat's in the way of that. Again, I say everybody's free, everyone's a freespirit, pretending they're not free.

Luke Storey: [01:07:18]So, it's like the framework underneath the way you explore and the way you workwith people, I guess you could say - let's see if I can articulate this - it'slike the context is consciousness manifest as truth. And then, the content isthe kind of the meandering and the mechanics of how we arrive at that truth.Would that be fair?

Peter Crone: [01:07:44]Fair enough. And I would just add that there are different levels of context.So, what I spoke to earlier about these ten primal prisons, I call themcontext. If you live in the context of I'm not enough, it will inextricablygive rise to the way you think, feel, act, and the results you get as a directextension of that context. Context is definitive. When we're in this room andit's like, you know, 200 square feet or whatever, we're not going to throw theOlympics in here. It doesn't allow for that. So, similarly, the framework ofwords - going back to how we started this with language - is like the lock andthe key. Most people live within a context. It's very confined in "I'm notenough or I'm not safe." And then, they manage their life within that.It's like living in this, like, rent controlled apartment that I was in. Butit's psychological. Spirituality or God is the realm beneath that, which ispure possibility. There is no limit. But we create constructs, which at timescan be helpful. You know, often say freedom without structure is chaos. So, youcan also start to see that if there's no structure, like when you get pulledout of the pod in The Matrix and you don't know who the hell you are becauseyou've been pulled out of time and space. But that is the new paradigm to stepinto where everything's available. So, even for you now, what we did is weremoved to a certain degree a context called things need to be a certain wayfor Luke to be okay. Which, we could track back to life to, you know, we're notgoing to get into today. But like that little boy is under the impression thatin order for him to feel safe and free, he needs people to act a certain way.And, now, it's just manifesting in a subtle, obviously not so impactful way,but to me it's the same thread. So, that's a context. But beneath, if thingsdidn't need to be a certain way for you, you dip into a bigger context, whichis the realm of pure acceptance. And pure possibility that you don't know who'sgoing to be on the other side of that FedEx door or that restaurant door orwherever. And that then becomes a life of joy and exploration.

Luke Storey: [01:09:35]That's awesome. Thank you. I knew we were going to have fun. I didn't even knowyou were going to be here this weekend. When I saw you, I was like, "Oh,man. We got to make this happen." So cool. So glad we got to drop in. Thegreat thing about doing this thing that I do is I feel that I really can speedup my getting to know someone in the cultivation of relationships. Like, I knownext time I see you or we run into each other, perhaps we're in contact forwhatever reason to hang out or talk business or whatever it is, it's like weget to save, like, two weeks of small talk. Because I'm just like, I feel thatI'm understanding the essence of who you are and what you do, which is justfantastic. So, thank you for spending time with us. I have one question foryou, and that is - well, it's a three parter - who have been three teachers orteachings that have influenced your life and your work that you'd like to sharewith us today?

Peter Crone: [01:10:27]I have never had that one. I'd like to start with my dad, because he, in a waythat I was oblivious at the time, taught me the essence or the quality ofunconditional love. As a kid, you know, you could say 15, 16, 17, but I'm stilla kid. And then, he went to work one day and never came back. And especiallyafter the passing of my mom, which when I was seven, so we had a decadetogether where it was just the two of us. And he really, in ways that maybe hewasn't even aware and it was just intuitive to him, was just the adoration thathe had for me. There was not in any way maladaptive. It wasn't obnoxious. Buthe just loved me. And so, I think that sort of got imbibed into me in ways thatwas just organic. You know, I didn't have to know that dad loves me. I justfelt it. So, I'd say that he's been a teacher in the way that, also, I thinkafter the fact, I got to sort of intuitively dive into what it must be like fora man to have his wife pass, knowing that's the mother of the son that he lovesor the child that he loves. And the fact that he dealt with that with suchgrace that I was oblivious to, because I was just surviving as a kid. But thatalso later in life gave me such a gratitude and an appreciation for what itmust be like for him and his karma to have to have dealt with that. So, thatwould be one. Then, I'm going to throw in my mom, even though I didn't know herbecause I was only seven. But there's an intel that she showed me that speaksvolumes about the woman she was, which is, she had left this little envelope. AndI haven't shared this with anyone but, anyway, it seems appropriate now. Butshe left an envelope that just all it said is, "For Peter Crone when 18years old." And inside there was a beautiful note and it was the ringsthat were the symbolic exchange of love between my mum and my dad, weddingrings, engagement rings, maternal rings, whatever. So, this envelope had beensealed, and my dad had shown me probably when I was about age 12 or 13 becausehe'd put it in a file. My dad kept a file. I was a great soccer player and sohe'd kept all these clippings from newspapers and it was in there. And he wouldoccasionally show me and say, "This is from your mum." So, why that,to me, is sort of an intel as to who she was as a woman? Because, one, she diedof cancer. And for her to have the foresight to want to leave a note for herson who would not get that note for 11 years, but to be able to express thedepths of love that she had for that being, which was me, and to want to sharethe tokens of love that she shared with my dad, and all while she knows she'sabout to die, to me, spoke volumes about who that was as a woman. Can youimagine, like, that's your only child and you have the foresight to want towrite a note for that son, and the words were incredibly touching. So, equally- and I've never told that story - those two. And then, out in left field,we've got Sri Nisargadatta, who is sort of the quintessential Indian guru likeKrishnamurti, I'm sure you've heard of, or Ramana Maharshi. These are sort of thesequintessential Eastern philosophy, Vedic yoga doctors, Advaita Vedanta, thenon-dualistic way of looking at life. And for me, Sri Nisargadatta - I nevermet the guy. I just read his predominant book. It was a transcript of hisSatsang meetings where people would come to the ashram.

Luke Storey: [01:13:54]Are you talking about Nisargadatta Maharaj?

Peter Crone: [01:13:55]Yes.

Luke Storey: [01:13:57]I Am That?

Peter Crone: [01:13:58]Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke Storey: [01:13:59]Oh, my God. That's crazy. That's the first spiritual book I ever had.

Peter Crone: [01:14:03]Oh, wow. That's a pretty deep dive.

Luke Storey: [01:14:06]Yeah. What was interesting, I had some family that used to travel to India whenI was still in the depths of addiction in my early 20s. And they would go stayat this ashram of Sathya Sai Baba in Puttaparthi, Southern India. And mycousin, who was around my age, he brought me that book as a gift, I Am That.And I mean, I was just in the lowest of lows. I mean, just totally mentallyincapacitated. I mean, reading a book was impossible, let alone a book of thatdepth. But I would read the back cover, which is something to the effect of,you know, if a building is there and then the building is gone, what could besaid of the space? Is the space still there? Something like that. It's anon-dual sort of puzzle. And I still have that copy of that book. And what'scrazy is, all of these years later, that book makes perfect sense to me, and italmost seems not simple because I would be kind of discounting the gravity ofit. But it doesn't sound like a foreign language to me. It's like, "Oh,yeah. I mean, that's the goal. I don't know that I have nonduality, but I startto experience some of that concept." And then, one of my favorite teachers,if not my favorite doctor, David Hawkins, I used to reference that book a lotand all of his teachings were about, you know, devotional, nonduality inessence, and his whole framework that it just benefited my life so tremendouslyit's really based on that Vedic system or theology of nonduality. So, that'sinteresting. But very few people are aware of that teacher or that book. And itwas like, that was the one book that gave me a little sliver of hope that therewas some truth out there that I didn't understand, but that someone had at somepoint understood truth, and the way life is. Someday I might be able to read itand get some help, and eventually I did. That's so cool.

Peter Crone: [01:16:00]I mean, I'll show you my copy one day and you'll just get a kick out of it.It's so dog eared. I'm not exaggerating, there might be another one or twobooks inside of it, just by virtue of the notes that I write between all thelines. And the thing that really resonated with me is, because for a minute there,I felt like such a freak of nature because I was starting to see life like Iwas an anomaly, certainly to my friends and anyone I knew. And so, for me, hewas sort of the safe haven, because as soon as I found the book, I was like,"Oh, I'm not just a complete freak. There's somebody else who gets whatI'm talking about." So, there was this sort of beautiful resonance andthis confirmation of, like, I was really on to something quite profound. And Iloved his attitude. He was so grumpy with it. Like, I could sort of have thatcompassion for the fact that he's like, "Look, I keep telling you the samedamn things. You're not getting it." Everything you think is like BS.There was a comedy to his almost, like, anger in the way that he he expressedhis profound insights. So, yeah, they would be the three that I'd pick.

Luke Storey: [01:17:02]That's very cool. Thank you. And where can people find you?

Peter Crone: [01:17:07]Peter Crone, @petercrone is Instagram, and then petercrone.com on website.

Luke Storey: [01:17:10]Awesome. We'll put all that in the show notes at lukestorey.com/peter. So,anything we talked about, this book, references, and stuff, we'll put in theshow notes, and I'll mention the intro too. Man, thank you so much. I know yougot to get to the airport.

Peter Crone: [01:17:22]Yeah. We could wax lyrical for hours, so we'll do it again sometime.

Luke Storey: [01:17:25]So fun and inspiring to get to hang out with you. I'm so glad we recorded thisconversation instead of just sitting out on the lawn shooting this shit. Ithink people are really going to benefit from this. So, thank you so much foryour gifts.

Peter Crone: [01:17:35]Thank you for having me on, my friend, and for letting me just contribute someextra freedom.

Luke Storey: [01:17:40]Yeah. Awesome, man. I appreciate it.

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