[00:00:00]Luke Storey:  I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Deborah Hanekamp, Mama Medicine, what's happening? Long time no see.

[00:00:31]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. Long time no see. It's good to see you again.

[00:00:34]Luke Storey:  Good to see you, too. I think you're aging backwards. Zoom filter you have going on here, but you look great.

[00:00:42]Deborah Hanekamp:  Thanks.

[00:00:43]Luke Storey:  Your ritual baths must be paying off.

[00:00:46]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah, I think that's what it is.

[00:00:48]Luke Storey:  I think so too. Before I forget, I'm going to show the people on our video, on our Zoom now. Now, normally, we'd be recording in person and I would have this sitting on the set, which is what I do know it's very talk show vibes, but this is Deborah's book. We're going to be talking about that and a number of other things. Probably looks backwards to you on video, but it's called Ritual Baths, or maybe does it look backwards when you look at it?

[00:01:12]Deborah Hanekamp:  It doesn't look backwards when I look at it. 

[00:01:14]Luke Storey:  Reflecting my own self back on my call. Okay. Yeah, it's a whole different world here doing remote interviews. In the very beginning, I did so many of them like that. And then, when I would go to New York and interviewed people like you, I got so spoiled of being able to sit down with someone and have a live conversation. So, here we are, full-circle. So, let's go ahead and jump right in here.

[00:01:39] I think that it's a really interesting offering as your first book to write a book about Ritual Baths. And this will be to some of our more earthy people listening, something, they're like, oh, duh, yeah, I know what that is. I do that. But to some people, they're going to be like, what the hell is that? All I know is this is a really beautiful book and it's kind of the culmination of a lot of the work that you've done. So, take us into what this book is all about, just right off the bat.

[00:02:07]Deborah Hanekamp:  Well, my work is really focused on being your own healer and finding like really applicable and approachable ways to do so. And one of the things that I found through the past two decades that I've been doing this work that I call medicine readings is that a bath is a really comprehensive way to be one's own healer because we all know that you feel one way before you get into the bath and another way when you get out of the bath. And I think that feeling of cleansing goes deeper than just what happens with the external physical body. I think there's also a spiritual experience that happens when we do that. And so, putting intention with it and turning it into a ritual, it just sort of is a way for you to intend to heal yourself as you go into the bath.

[00:03:07]Luke Storey:  And when did you first start practicing this to the point where you made it a whole modality in a book?

[00:03:14]Deborah Hanekamp:  I started recommending ritual baths to my clients around 15 years ago at the end of medicine readings. So, that way, after they came to see me for our one-on-one time together, they would meet and have something that they felt like they could continue to do, like they could continue to do the work on their own instead of being reliant on me, which is really important. And it just kind of stuck, like people really got a lot out of the bath. And so, I went deeper into it and, and started recommending a lot more ingredients, and things like that based on the time that I spent in Peru, which we spoke about last time we got together. And also, just based on what I know about like stones, and herbs, and all of that.

[00:04:03]Luke Storey:  It's interesting. I don't think I've ever had a ritual bath mindfully. I have all kinds of concoctions that I've put in a bath, but in, when was that, December of 2019, a few months ago, I went to a place called Soltara in Costa Rica for ayahuasca ceremonies. And it was very much in alignment with the Shipibo tradition. And so, there were Shipibo healers there from Peru. And they did this ritual called the flower bath a couple of times just during the day as kind of a cleansing process.

[00:04:38] And they just kind of pour it on you. They make these, I'm sure you're familiar with these concoctions of just these beautifully aromatic flowers, and you don't sit in a bath, just kind of you get dunked. It's sort of a baptism of sorts. And I swear to God, I've never smelled anything that pleasant in my entire life. I don't know what they've put in there, but it was a really beautiful experience. I actually posted a picture of it on my Instagram, just getting dunked.

[00:05:08] But I'm just like, I wish I could smell this smell 24 hours a day, but really, aside from just that part of it, it was a really beautiful experience, even though it was kind of brief. You're sort of in an assembly line, and they walk you up, and I mean, they're reverent about it, but it's not like you sit there for half-an-hour and bask in some nice water, it's just like next. But it had an impact on me. 

[00:05:32] And I think that's what sort of piqued my interest in your book and this whole thing. And so, I guess that leads me into my next question. What historical—what's the word I'm looking for? Like what historical relevance or background does this have? Does the idea of getting in water in a very sacred way and putting special things in there go back throughout different cultures? And if so, what are they and when?

[00:06:00]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. I mean, it goes back. I mean, we all like associate milk and honey in a bath with like Cleopatra. It goes like way, way back in many different religions. In Judaism, you have like the mikvah, which, I think, is a bath of conversion, when you convert into Judaism. And for me personally, I was actually raised really strict Baptist, and the only thing that really strongly spoke to me about that religion was the baptism.

[00:06:37] And you don't get like baptized in that religion until you're about 30 years old and you actually have sins to wash away. But when I was eight years old, I basically like demanded to be baptized. And then, the bath work kept on like showing up for me again and again. Like later on, when I was spending time in the Amazon, the ritual baths that were given, similar to what you're describing, was one of the most powerful experiences I had. I was having like a really, really hard diata.

[00:07:14] And my teacher took me to this waterfall and he had me like cover myself in clay, go stand under the waterfall, cover myself in honey, go stand under the waterfall. And he was preparing this whole ritual bath. And then, he had me come out and he dunked the ritual bath on me while he was singing in ikaro, and like it turned like the darkest experience into like one of such magnificence and beauty. And so, I don't know, it was one of those things that just kept on showing up. I feel like I have a lot more to learn, actually, about the history of baths. Like I think it goes way, way before the Romans, way before ancient Egypt. I think there's something even more ancient than I really understand in there with them.

[00:08:11]Luke Storey:  Well, it's something that I'm thinking about other ways in which humans interact with water and that if you look back in the most primordial sense, we came from water, right?

[00:08:23]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[00:08:24]Luke Storey:  We're mostly made of water. I don't know, I'm a Scorpio, water sign. Water is really my element, I would say, but I'm always fascinated by hot springs. Hot springs and in any natural body of water is, I would say, probably my favorite thing in the world maybe after sex. I mean, like I love hot springs. In fact, when I first started my podcast, I was determining what this brand was going to be and what I was going to be all about, and a friend of mine was looking into selling this website called findaspring.com. And he's like, I know you're the spring guy.

[00:09:01] I want to give you a shot at it first, and I had this vision of building this website, and making a business out of just traveling the world and discovering drinking springs, natural drinking springs and hot springs all over the world, and just being like the foremost expert, and world traveler, and immersive journalist on all things, bodies of water. And ultimately, it wasn't my dharma. A friend of mine is now doing it that owns this company called Live Spring Water and Find A Spring is doing amazing. But what I find interesting is when I visit sacred hot springs around the world, which is usually the main thing I seek out when I travel other than whatever reason I'm there for. 

[00:09:42]Deborah Hanekamp:  Me too. 

[00:09:42]Luke Storey:  You really have? 

[00:09:43]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[00:09:45]Luke Storey:  It's like first thing to do, as I land, I'm like, where's the hot springs? Or even sometimes, ahead of time, but I always get the sense when I'm in a spring is of course, they've been there forever in one form or another. At least that water's been coming up. I mean, maybe it wasn't in a nice pool always, but the water is kind of always been coming up, or at least for a very long time. And I think about historically, well, how many generations of humans have been coming to heal in those waters? 

[00:10:12] So, there's this energetic imprint of that specific crack in the earth where that water's coming up hot, and also, just the healing properties of all the different waters around the world and the energetics that they pick up and the minerals that they pick up. And I don't know of anything that makes me feel better than getting in a hot spring, and then ideally, jumping in a super cold river, lake, whatever, nearby and doing that a few times back and forth like makes me feel the most alive I could possibly feel. Definitely something to the historical relevance of getting in water and having it heal us.

[00:10:52]Deborah Hanekamp:  Absolutely. We're experiencing like a rebirth. We spent like the first nine months of our physical lives in water, of the womb. And when we go back in, we're having a whole another like womb-like experience. And when you go in the water and you close your eyes and you let just your nose stick out of the water, it's like you really feel yourself in the womb. It's unbelievable.

[00:11:25]Luke Storey:  That's interesting. I never thought about it like that. That might explain why I like float chambers so much.

[00:11:31]Deborah Hanekamp:  I love them.

[00:11:32]Luke Storey:  You do?

[00:11:32]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. 

[00:11:34]Luke Storey:  I wonder, like it would be sick, just throwing out a business idea here.

[00:11:39]Deborah Hanekamp:  Okay. Let's hear it.

[00:11:39]Luke Storey:  And give it to you first since you're the bath master here. But imagine like it would be kind of messy, I don't know how it would work because you'd have multiple people, but imagine a float tanker, a float chamber with not only absent salt, but also, the crystals, and the other elements, and flower essences, and petals, and all that. Like imagine turning a float into a ritual bath. That's my contribution today.

[00:12:06]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I totally see that. It could be so beautiful. And maybe also having like a sound element with like bulls or something like that in the water.

[00:12:23]Luke Storey:  Oh, right. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I'm kind of bummed right now. The float center that I go to in LA is closed. I did go there one day because the owner let me in to shoot some video and stuff, but I didn't get like a real float. What are some of the other—run me through like one of your favorite preparations and the intention setting beforehand, the whole purpose of that particular color, the different flowers, the oils, the things that you use in a bath. Run me through like one of your rock star baths from start to finish.

[00:12:59]Deborah Hanekamp:  I feel like all of the baths are really, really special. But maybe today, because it's Earth Day, and it's like the new moon, and all of that, I'm thinking a lot about this one bath in there, which is in the Green Aura section, which is called the I Am Nature Bath. And it's designed to help us to remember that we're nature. So, the intention with it is like that you remember who you really are. Like that you remember that everything that you see happening in nature is a part of you and you are part of nature. Your blood is water. Your spirit is fire. Your breath is wind. Your body is earth. Like all of that is already in you and that bath is to remind you of that.

[00:13:59] And so, there's salt in it which helps to neutralize kind of negative energies maybe that you're bringing or the chaotic energies that you're bringing into the whole ritual, and then all of your non-water-soluble crystals. Basically, your crystals that would be polished. The ones that are really special are the ones that like you find on your own in nature, especially for this bath in particular. So, even if it's just like smooth grey stone that you found on the beach, that would be really special to put in the bath.

[00:14:36] And then, I believe it's pink rose petals and rosemary. Rosemary is an herb that when you go throughout the book, you'll find this plant and almost all of the baths because baths and bathing have this kind of like womb-like fairy mama medicine kind of experience, like mama being like just that like feminine energy experience. Rosemary to me is like, if there is a plant that was the embodiment of the divine feminine, it would be rosemary. And it's sort of like a plant that can heal so much. If we drink a little bit of it as a tea, it can heal our liver. It can heal all sorts of stuff with our skin. So, rosemary would be in the bath as well. 

[00:15:26]Luke Storey:  That's awesome. Actually, when I'm walking around the neighborhood, I often pick rosemary from people's yards and just smell it as I walk around. I love rosemary. I'm actually out of rosemary essential oil. I'd like to get some more of that. I like to just put in my hands and just kind of huff it. It Is really magical. That and lavender. I love to pick lavender flowers to an amount. Just oils of those two plants are just so aromatic and special.

[00:15:54]Deborah Hanekamp:  They're friends. They're really good friends with each other too. Like the two of them together work wonders.

[00:16:00]Luke Storey:  So, when you talk about medicine readings, and how you got your start doing that, and then have sort of blossomed into all sorts of other things, including this book, going back to discovering yoga when you were 17, then opening up your own studio at 24, which, by the way, kudos, that's quite ambitious. And then, people wanting to spend more time with you, so you take them down to the basement or under the studio, and you do these medicine readings, and then that kind of evolved into this highly sought-after, almost celebrity treatment that people in the fashion industry in New York are coveting, et cetera. One experience also that I'd like to have someday, I know we've crossed paths a few times and I'm looking forward to it, but what does a medicine reading entail for someone who just never even heard of that term?

[00:16:48]Deborah Hanekamp:  I'm doing them mostly digital now, by the way. Like I only do them in person anymore when it's like a really special experience. This is with coronavirus and without coronavirus energy. Because I've been wanting to see more people from all around the world that I can't travel all the time. So, it was like a really strong decision I made at the end of the year. But basically, a medicine reading, it's a one-on-one experience designed to support people to be their own healer.

[00:17:24] So, when you come, you set the intention of our time together by talking about anything in life that you're looking to call in or clear out. And then, I sit with you and I read your aura. And I tell you what is in your aura that could be like hidden talents and gifts or things that could be blocking you. I see into your aura what you are carrying in on this specific day that we meet. Like I think there's something about divine timing with medicine readings.

[00:18:00] And I see exactly what needs to be mentioned to you to support you in your path of being your own healer. So, like for some people that might be—I'm telling them exactly about the colors in their aura and what that means or sometimes, like past life stuff will come up if it's relevant to today. Sometimes, even like relationship stuff will come up or location and work stuff will come up. But I'm never really telling people, oh, you should break up with that person, or like you need to move to this like other country, or anything like that because I kind of want people to come to things on their own, and be patient with them, and give them time to come to it.

[00:18:47] So, everything is just like suggestion that comes up, but it's also—usually, the result is, if people are crying and it's like spot-on with the talking part, right? Then, we go into a ceremony that is whether we're in person or distance, it's facilitated with distance healing. And then, I incorporate sound into that as well, including singing. And then, I send you on your way with like some homework for you to do, and also, a prescription for a ritual bath for you to take. So, you leave feeling really empowered, like you have tools that you can use to be your own healer.

[00:19:31]Luke Storey:  Awesome. And for those listening, I want to encourage you guys to go back and listen to Episode 125, the one we did before because I don't know, when I have people on a second time, I don't want to—it would probably serve the audience to repeat a bunch of stuff from the first time in terms of historical relevance and the origin story, but I'm always like wanting to get to the new stuff so I don't go back in and tell the same story again. 

[00:19:55] So, I want to encourage people to go back because the story of how your gifts emerged and what your subjective experience is like being a person who has that high level of empathy and is tuned in to things like seeing auras and past lives is a really fascinating listen. So, I really want to encourage people to go back for that reference because it was a beautiful conversation, and one of my favorites out of 300 or something that I've done now. 

[00:20:26] So, one piece there that stands out to me, I think, is the potential that humans have to feel helpless and lose their sense of sovereignty. And when they work with someone who is a healer, therapist, a shaman, et cetera, that it's easy for them to put that person on a pedestal and feel that that person as a conduit is necessary in order for them to find their true, or higher self, or God. And this goes back through many of the religions, of course, with that intent of like you need us in order to get to where you want to go.

[00:21:06] And I've noticed through speaking with you and just following your work that your model, as you've indicated twice here today, is more set up about empowering the person that you're working with as a healer rather than them putting you on a pedestal as some guru or savior that they are now kind of addicted to and have to keep chasing. So, perhaps, you could illuminate for us from your perspective the difference between those two paradigms.

[00:21:32]Deborah Hanekamp:  Well, I think that on like a microcosmic level, because I started out in the spiritual world as such a young person, I really like sought after like anyone who's like, I'm a guru, I'm like great. Like, sign me up, I want to learn everything. And a shaman, yes, absolutely. This teacher, that teacher, I just wanted to like learn, and heal, and I wanted to fix myself, and all of that. And every single time I gave my power away to one of these people, and it's not necessarily that these like gurus, shamans, master, this, it's not that they're ill-intended all of the time.

[00:22:28] I don't actually think that they are. I think it's like a paradigm that is set up where it's almost like the disempowered leading the disempowered. And it's just like what they know and how they know how to help people versus like then actually trying to like cause harm. But that being said, I feel like disempowerment is a big issue with all of the issues within the world today because I think when we feel disempowered, we feel kind of afraid. And we are starting to understand we need to choose love over fear, but that is, right now, sitting in the intellect versus actual practice at this point.

[00:23:13] So, I saw all these people and I was like, okay, I really want my work to be something different. I want it to be something that like even though you might get totally annoyed with me when you come because I'm not like, okay, here's the 10 steps to like having a mansion in Bel Air and like this like dream husband or whatever. Like people might get annoyed with me about that, but I also feel like I would rather have people get a little frustrated with me, but walk away with their power intact than like them give their power away to me and think I'm some superhuman when I'm not. I'm just like a mom from Brooklyn.

[00:23:54]Luke Storey:  Yeah. You touched on something interesting there. And that's just the inherent innocence of spiritual seekers, whether they're on the side of the student or the teacher, right? And that there is this propensity for the human ego to find its position in the hierarchy, right? It's just kind of part of our animal makeup. So, perhaps, there's people that are on the shaman, healer, guru side that have the experience of their ego co-opting their gifts, and taken on some sort of persona, and then perhaps feeding on the rush of power in that position of leadership on the more arrogant or prideful side of the ego coin.

[00:24:38] And then, you have the aspiring student or the healee that feels less than and disempowered because of their shadow, ego, and shame ego that then get locked into that kind of dynamic in a relationship, right? And so, I know that it's been something important for me to observe within myself, is to really be mindful of that spiritual ego as I start to gain more knowledge, wisdom, experience, et cetera, to remain humble and know that any inspiration that comes through me didn't originate in me, right? And the really important lesson for spiritual leaders and teachers to maintain is that it ain't you.

[00:25:16]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. 

[00:25:17]Luke Storey:  And for also people that are following those people or students of those teachers that know that it's not them either, and that is something true is manifesting in that experience that they're but a conduit or channel for consciousness in a greater sense to come through, and they've found ways to open that up, and illuminate, and describe those states to you and help you to achieve it. But all in all, and I think I could guess the answer, and I don't want to be disparaging to anyone who's doing good, and bringing light and love into the world, but I think now that spirituality is so trendy that there seems to be perhaps more spiritual bypass and people just kind of becoming insta-gurus or something, you know what I mean?

[00:26:11] It's like, I don't know, I see people popping up all the time like, wow, everyone's a spiritual teacher, you know what I mean? On one side, that's awesome. It's sort of like the posed meditation pictures on Instagram. I used to make fun of that as kind of a dick move because I just thought it was funny. But then, on one hand, I'm like, thank God. I mean, that's a huge step in the right direction from like, look at my Ferrari or whatever.

[00:26:34]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[00:26:35]Luke Storey:  To be judgmental in either one of those as, but we're in an interesting time because we're in this sort of global awakening as a species. And at the same time, there's perhaps some, oh, I don't know, if it's an innocent inauthenticity or just people having not had the experience to really explore shadow and do the work. So, what's your perspective on that and advice to people that are seeking teachers or advice to people that are finding themselves in a position of becoming teachers, keeping all that in mind?

[00:27:09]Deborah Hanekamp:  I really like what you said about it like, it's not me, it's like working for me because I think that's a really important thing to understand. Like we all have access to the divine because we all have love. And so, we all have that like master healer within us. And that is the love that is within us. So, like your healing miracle could be like taking your dog for a walk because that's an act of love, and that then becomes like a spiritual act.

[00:27:48] And so, I think that it's really important to like come into respect of ordinariness being a spiritual experience versus always trying to have this extraordinary experience in this like rapture, this like mind-blowing, I'm in the 10th dimension experience. It's like the ordinariness, like taking care of what you have with like gratitude, taking care of who you have with gratitude, and honor, and respect, like this is really powerful spiritual work.

[00:28:26]Luke Storey:  Yeah. When you're speaking in that way, it reminds me of the simplicity of Buddhism or Daoism, where it's more about subtraction of the false than it is adding more true, right? It's like you don't need to add more God into your life, you need to get rid of the things that aren't of God or that are false rather than true, right? It's it's in that simplicity and being ordinary. And I've talked about many times on the show, too, some of my most profound spiritual meetings with spiritual masters have been bus drivers, janitors, housekeepers. 

[00:29:02] Like you're at the dog park and you just look in their eyes, you're like, oh, shit, they've got the thing, they're tapped in. And they probably don't even realize it, they're just being ordinary, but have the ability to really profoundly land in the present moment and have some sort of relationship with spirit that you feel the minute you get in their presence, but they're never going to become a healer, a guru, a spiritual teacher that's living their life and walking their dog. 

[00:29:32]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[00:29:32]Luke Storey:  Some of my favorite experiences in life, and they really stand out because it's like, wow, the doorman at this building in New York City just gave me this look in the eyes that changed my life, and they might not even know it.

[00:29:45]Deborah Hanekamp:  Totally. Some of the conversations I've had with like taxi drivers, I usually do taxis, not a yellow cab person. So, the conversations I've had with them have been like unbelievable because you ask them about where they're from in the world, and then you start talking about like their connection to family or their connection to like the divine and what they call it. And you get to hear like the most beautiful, deep, deep, deep stories. And I miss that about being able to randomly connect with people. And it's-

[00:30:27]Luke Storey:  And who knows where we'll be with this thing. I don't even know what to call it anymore because it's very confusing. A lot of mixed messages about the current thing we find it. So, by the time this comes out, everything might be back to normal, but for just relevant segue, right now, you can't go hop in a cab, and just cruise around, and have these one-on-one experiences, which is such an interesting element to find new ways of human connection.

[00:30:56] When you're out working with people remotely, I find this interesting. There's this side of me that's very logical, and pragmatic, and kind of wants to see proof and studies, and it has to make sense, and there has to be some scientific basis to something before I buy into it. And then, there's this other part of me that is maybe the part that I access when I meditate, where I realize that space, time, distance, all of that, is a construct and that everything is everywhere all of the time.

[00:31:30] And I kind of dance between those worlds. And working in the work that I do and getting to speak with someone like Joe Dispenza who can so clearly articulate the premise of quantum physics and that there is no such thing as you're in New York and I'm over here, that that space is imaginary. What's it like for you when you do readings or interact with people and feel into their aura and their being, sitting in a room with them versus having them on the phone, or just thinking about them, or having them on a Zoom call, or something like that?

[00:32:07]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. I don't really feel that big of a difference because I feel like if we're in-person, in the same space, we're together. And if we're meeting at the same time, we're together. And even when we're not meeting at the same time, we're together. And when we do the remote medicine reading, it's just a time that we're choosing to intentionally meet together. I don't know. Like I'm big into the concept that like linear time and space is an illusion. And I think when I was younger in my work, I used to always try to like back everything up with science and like prove—even with like to see the auras, it's like, okay, how can this be? Like what's going on? Like what's going on with my brain that's making this happen?

[00:33:01] But I really stopped doing that because first of all, it's like not really me. And second of all, I feel like the level of where spiritual understanding is now and like the understanding of unity, consciousness is now compared to where it was even five years ago, is like astonishing. Like I think we really are understanding how connected we are. And I think like the reason why we see a lot of these, like insta-gurus and things like that is because people are probably waking up a lot to their spirituality. And I think that is like because we're experiencing a rise in consciousness and unity.

[00:33:58]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I agree. And I think something that's helpful, or at least has been in my experience with understanding that the linear way in which we experience space and time is an illusion, is through plant medicines and in meditation. I don't think it's necessary for someone to do plant medicines or psychedelics to have that, but any time I've ever taken any kind of a journey, even when I did so as a teenager and stuff, not consciously or intentionally at all, I got the sense that, oh, things are not as they seem, really pierced the veil of reality or at least my perception of reality.

[00:34:39] Early on, I know you had quite a bit of experience with ayahuasca and whatnot based our last conversation, plant medicines in the more indigenous shamanic setting or even psychedelics in a clinical therapeutic setting or anything like that, what role have consciousness-altering substances played in your journey? And are they still part of your life or will they ever be?

[00:35:02]Deborah Hanekamp:  Well, I think that ayahuasca will always be a part of my life. I spent eight years on like a deep dive with that plant consciousness. And I feel that even though I purposefully don't take anything to alter my consciousness now for the past three years, I still feel like I'm processing and integrating a lot from ayahuasca, like a lot. And I still have dreams where I'm like in the Amazon jungle and I hear the loud symphony of the animals there.

[00:35:45] And I'm in a ceremony and I'm receiving a blessing. And so, I know like I'm still connected to that energy very strongly. And I agree with you. I don't think everyone needs to do plant medicines to heal themselves, but I had like a very tumultuous upbringing, and I am also a Scorpio. And so, I'm that kind of an intense person. Yeah. Just not easy. Things are not easy. But basically, like I think that ayahuasca and the way that that plant consciousness helped me to start to perceive the world, which also, I started drinking ayahuasca when I was 24, I think that it helps me to heal on a very, very deep level things that I would have maybe even never really understood that I was carrying.

[00:36:47] I think that it helps me to not be afraid of who I am and like not be afraid of whatever like my gifts are, but instead really honor them. I think like the whole apprenticeship that I did in the Amazon, ayahuasca being a really big part of it, really knocked out a lot of ego for me and gave me a lot of humility, and then re-structured my will with confidence rather than ego. And I think that, that example of confidence is a gift that I can now pass down to like my daughter and to my clients who come to see me for medicine readings, like the feeling like you've got this, you can do this. And I definitely, definitely equate that to my ayahuasca experience.

[00:37:50]Luke Storey:  I so relate to that. Yeah, it's like I've discovered through just eight experiences that I've had so many things that were brought up to heal that I didn't even know existed, you know what I mean? Or just recontextualizing experiences that I've had in life that were traumatic, et cetera, that kind of altered my personality in a negative way and are holding me back in some capacity, it allowed me to see the depths of those experiences in a way that I was completely unaware of. 

[00:38:26] So, like, oh, yeah, that thing happened, that was kind of rough when I was eight, whatever, move on. But really being able to go into some of those things and see how profoundly I was impacted and how certain experiences just completely altered the whole trajectory of my life in a negative sense in many cases. Well, I guess it's not really negative in the end because it all brings you to where you are, but made life a lot more challenging, I guess you could say. And I didn't even know it was there.

[00:38:52] So, I just find that so fascinating and I also really relate to the part of being shown ways in which I was hiding my gifts and taking kind of a low key, easy way out without really being seen, or being too vulnerable, or risking being judged or failing, especially in terms of my career, and kind of the offerings that I make, and where I'm playing small and hiding out, and things like that. And I don't know who else could—

[00:39:23] I mean, I guess you could have a teacher or a guy that could point those things out to you, but it's really profound when you're realizing them yourself by having the veil of your intellect kind of being subsided momentarily by the influence of those medicines, where you're able to see yourself in a completely different way at such depths that I think would be, for me, really hard to achieve in any other way. It's just like taking a rocket ship to the moon versus a tricycle, you know what I mean? It's just like, well, okay, but not for the faint at heart. 

[00:39:59] And as we've both indicated, not for everyone in all times. Some always really tip toe around the plant medicine and psychedelic thing because I don't think there were times in my life it would have been useful or productive and could have even been destructive. And thankfully, I was able to follow my intuition and not partake in that for a long, long time until I really felt strong and verifiably legitimate calling where I knew that it was for the right reasons and who I chose to sit with, and where, and when, and how, and all of that was very clear. Have you had experiences with other medicines or psychedelics other than ayahuasca that have been instrumental in your awakening?

[00:40:41]Deborah Hanekamp:  Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, back to the tumultuous upbringing, we had like no real like—my brother and I by we, I mean, we had no really solid parental figures when we were growing up. So, I got like really into Pink Floyd, really into William Blake, and poetry, and also, artwork, really into everything from this Theosophy society when I was like 13 years old. And one of my friends had a much older brother. He gave us LSD. And I just loved it. Like it made so much sense to me.

[00:41:32] And also, like mushrooms, that level of like things that were drugs that really, I felt like really like negative, I pretty much stayed away from. Like I kind of tried everything, but there are things like when I would be at a party or something like that and people would be doing coke and they would be like, oh, I love you so much, and things like that, I would just feel like no, I'm just not interested. But LSD, mushrooms, MDMA, anything that was like out there, I was so into.

[00:42:14] So, basically, I was like that from 13 to 17. And then, when I was 17, I had that like wake-up call. And I knew I had to like really clean up my act and like not do anything to shift my consciousness. And then, I didn't do anything like psychedelic-related. For the most part, I went to Burning Man when I was 22. And obviously, definitely, I did mushrooms out there. But for the most part, stayed away from everything.

[00:42:50] And then, when I was 24, that's when I found ayahuasca and I was at a really like very clean point in my life and really deep into my work. But what you were saying before about what ayahuasca brought up for you, it made me think about something I was thinking about today about how like water holds memory, and because we are mostly water, we hold memory within us. And so, while our intellect and our linear thought and linear mind might not be able to like figure everything out or heal everything, and that's why I like, well, I deeply respect clinical psychology and things like that, I think it can take us to a certain point.

[00:43:36] Whereas, things like your meditations, your breath works, your plant medicines, things that bring you into more of like your water energy, which is like your intuition—and all water in the world is connected to all water, so it's like a transmitter. So, when we do these things that really expand our consciousness, I think memory is something that comes up really strongly, memory both of who we are, maybe even of like our purpose, and our path, and what we're meant to do, but also, memory of like what it might have been like when we existed in a time where we were all connected to all different dimensions at all times.

[00:44:25]Luke Storey:  Wow. That's deep. I never thought about that. That's really interesting, that idea that all of the water on the planet is connected to itself in some way, somewhere. That's so fascinating. And also, the imprint of memory on water crystals, which sounds woo-woo, but there's actually like a lot of science behind that.

[00:44:48]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[00:44:49]Luke Storey:  As I said earlier, just fascinated by water. And I think that's why this bath, the ritual bath thing was like, oh, yeah, I like water, what's up with this book? Let me talk to Mama Medicine and like catch up on this. There's something I actually wanted to go back to on the bath topic. And I remember when I opened up this book, I was like, oh, this is so beautiful, like amazing photography. It's just really, really well-designed.

[00:45:14] And I had a vision of, at some point, doing kind of a coffee table book or something about all of my random lifestyle packs and whatnot. But one thing that came to me right away, and I don't want to like shit on anyone who's doing the ritual baths and has your book or is going to get it and like negatively imprint that experience, but being such a water geek, I spent years studying like kind of the health and the makeup of water and found that municipal waters, tap waters generally, in most places around the planet, are extremely toxic. 

[00:45:49] And so, when I moved in this house that I'm in now where my studio is, I was really excited because I have a Jacuzzi bath, like a big bath, plenty of room for two people, and it's been quite fun. And so, I got this little kind of bath ball filter. It's like a little charcoal filter thing, and it takes out a little bit of the chlorine, and it's better than nothing. But still, when I get in the bath, because I've had really good shower filters, and I only drink spring water, and I'm such a water aficionado/snob, when I'm in the bath, it's like almost I can smell is chlorine.

[00:46:21] And then, I start imagining the fluoride, and the pharmaceuticals, and birth control pills, and like all the other stuff that has been documented to be in tap water. And so, I don't know, I feel like for the show notes of this episode, I'm probably going to do a little research and throw in some different options for people that might be able to clean up their water if they aren't so situated to be living on land with a well that's unpolluted water, et cetera. Have you gotten in any consideration to this or do you have hacks on ways people can kind of make the water a bit cleaner and less toxic?

[00:46:59]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah, I thought a lot about this. And I also would love your research on like really awesome water filters for the bath because I'm still looking for like a great one. Like there isn't one yet that has come out that I really feel like I can get behind. So, I would love to see what you come up with.

[00:47:20]Luke Storey:  Same here. 

[00:47:22]Deborah Hanekamp:  But I think things like activated charcoal, and bentonite clay, and shungite in the water, like these are things that help to kind of take a lot of those fluids out of the water, but I also think that we have more power to heal than we do. And I think we can transform that, at least like the energetic properties of these harsh chemicals through intention. And if you've ever read Masaru Emoto's work, the Water Crystal Guy.

[00:48:04]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:48:04]Deborah Hanekamp:  He has—oh, what did you want to say?

[00:48:08]Luke Storey:  Hidden Messages in Water for show notes, yeah.

[00:48:11]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. And he has another book called The Healing Power of Water. And there's one section in it where one of the co-authors whose name I can't recall at the moment writes about like creating a vortex around the water in the way like you stir and you spin the water actually helps to take the negative memories out and transform it into positive memories. So, like I don't have the machine that he's suggesting, but I have been stirring the baths in a counter-clockwise way and just putting that intention of putting like healing back into the water, basically.

[00:48:59]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Viktor Schauberger is one of the foremost experts on all things water and talked a lot about the vortex in a water. That's a really good point, actually. You can get a copper rod, and vortex the water, and make a spiral like that, and it does affect the energetic imprint of the water. That's actually a really good reminder. On that note, I think there's this fine line that I'm always walking, and it's true of water and also of the EMFs in our environment, like even like moderate people are becoming aware that 5G is not a great idea, nor was 4G, 3G, 2G, or 1G for that matter. 

[00:49:41] Putting radiation throughout the entire environment is not good for the planet, or us, or any living creatures anywhere. But we did it and here we are. So, I'm always kind of trying to find the balance between becoming aware and mitigating the effects of things like that, but also remaining positive and using the kind of Jedi mind trick that you just described to override the physical reality. And based on Dr. Emoto's work, that's such a great observation where he would take these different samples of water from around the world, like tap water from Tokyo or somewhere really polluted, and then put the word love on it, and the water crystals would then be photographed, and he would change the actual structure of the water just by putting intention, or playing music, or different words.

[00:50:30] And that just goes to show, if you're choosing to take a ritual bath or interacting with water in any way, like I have an ice bath. Actually, that's so funny. I just realized, I took a ritual bath every day, it's 40 degrees, and I facilitated my ice bath. That's so hilarious. I did not even think about that. That is so funny. I'm like, wait, I'm already doing this. Some salt, some essential oils, rose petals, I'm good.

[00:50:56]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. 

[00:50:56]Luke Storey:  That's hilarious. But I do filter the water when I get in my bath, but also when I get in, I do use my mind to just go, Luke, this is healing water, this is clean water, this is beautiful water, and really to transmute the chemistry of that water with intention, which has been proven to be actually scientifically valid. So, it's a really important distinction that you bring up. And it's like I've interviewed people like Bruce Lipton and talked to him about EMFs, which you could just apply that same thing to the health of the water that we're bathing in. 

[00:51:28] And his take on it is that like worrying about the EMFs or worrying about the toxic baths that you're about to take is actually compounding the negative effects of it and making it worse for you than getting in and just going like, no, this is beautiful, I'm healing, like I have an auric field, I have a magnetic field that's going to push all of this away from me, and I'm totally safe. When your limbic system is firing because you feel threatened, it weakens your immune system. It actually makes you more susceptible to the threat that you're worried about. So, it's a strange dynamic within our psychology that we have to grapple with, where we don't just put our head in the sand and pretend like something doesn't exist because it does. But then, do we let fear overrun us when it's something that we don't really have the power to change? 

[00:52:16]Deborah Hanekamp:  Totally. 

[00:52:17]Luke Storey:  Like such as living in an apartment in New York City, like what are you going to do, call the super and have them put a whole building filter on the New York City tap water? It's like there's certain things that you just kind of like, well, here I am, I'm just going to have to deal.

[00:52:29]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah, totally. It goes back to like that concept of being one's own healer and not giving our power away to others, but to like really own it for ourselves, and go like, okay, it's fudge, the water's toxic, like the government, all of these things, but I'm going to choose to have like patience, and presence, and perseverance. And I'm going to take accountability and responsibility for my own healing.

[00:52:59] And I'm going to choose love because that's the master healer in us. And I think right now, and this will continue into the future, as we raise our consciousness, we're going to become more and more aware of the ways in which we may be being attacked in some way, but we can't let our energy be contaminated by fear because then, we start becoming like reactive to all of it. And I think that that actually is so spot on, that that is what will make us sick.

[00:53:41]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I like to say, trust God, tie up your camel.

[00:53:47]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[00:53:49]Luke Storey:  Understand there's certain things you can't change and you're just going to trust the universe, trust God, all is well, you're going to be safe, you're going to come out fine in the end. And also, like throw some bentonite clay and activated charcoal in your bath to help just neutralize some of those toxins, and then live your life, and enjoy that bath. And I will add one other hack that I found years ago because the baths I've been doing for a long time are a bunch of bentonite clay, calcium bentonite clay, I haven't thought of putting charcoal in, and also, baking soda, tons of Epsom salts, and whatnot. Not really done the flowers, but I do usually put a lot of essential oils in there. 

[00:54:30] And then, kind of have my own little thing. It's so funny. I'm realizing, like wait, I've kind of been doing this, just not that thoughtfully, you know what I mean? I haven't setting intentions and really making it that sacred. I'm more like, okay, I'm going to, my body hurts, I want to get into what's going to make it not hurt. But one thing you can do to help neutralize chloramine and chlorine, which are kind of the two disinfectants, is you can put a little bit of nascent iodine, even just like three or four drops of it, and that does counteract some of the off-gassing of the chlorine, which is a pretty, pretty easy fix because they're kind of-

[00:55:02]Deborah Hanekamp:  I've never heard of that.

[00:55:02]Luke Storey:  Yeah, they're the opposite. I don't know how to explain it from a chemistry standpoint, but I've talked to smart people that can, and they're at the opposite end of the periodic table. And so, they, in essence, balance themselves out. And one of the reasons humans are so deficient in iodine is that we don't eat a lot of sea vegetables anymore as we've evolved to in different places in the earth. And also, that these chloramines and chlorines are so prevalent in our environment in all of our water and drinks. 

[00:55:30] And every time we get a kombucha and any beer, wine, anything you drink that was made with tap water, even if it's been filtered, probably still has some of that stuff in it. So, using iodine is a way that you can—even just internally taking iodine periodically in small doses helps you kind of shield that stuff. But I'm with you. It's more about like shielding from a conscious point of view, and mitigating the effects on your nervous system and the stress, and just take little steps that you can to up-level your water, your environment, your diet, et cetera. At the end of the day, the fear is compounding all of that toxicity, making it much more harmful.

[00:56:11]Deborah Hanekamp:  Totally.

[00:56:12]Luke Storey:  There you go. Ding, ding, ding. There's my soapbox. Why did you decide to not do plant medicines anymore? And do you have like a finite decision on that or you just like, for right now, I'm not, but who knows what will happen in the future? Do you feel like you're really done with that?

[00:56:29]Deborah Hanekamp:  I feel like ayahuasca finds you. I speak to ayahuasca specifically because in terms of plant medicine, it's just someone that I feel most connected with, but I would be open to other consciousnesses as well. I feel like it finds you. And I feel like, the Amazon jungle, when I went to it at the beginning of that eight years and the Amazon jungle when I went to it at the end of that eight years is actually like a little heartbreaking in terms of like the effects of like the ayahuasca tourism on the people, and also, the place. And so, I felt like it was important for me to step back from it in terms of like the example that I set for people.

[00:57:24]Luke Storey:  Okay. Got it. 

[00:57:25]Deborah Hanekamp:  But I really would love to do a ceremony again, and I'm just waiting for the right time to do it or like there's other plants that I would love to be able to diet with that are down there. And if it doesn't happen, it's not meant to be. But if it does happen, I'm just waiting for the right time, right place, all of that.

[00:57:53]Luke Storey:  I agree, yeah. I think because it's a new portal for me that's opened up in the past year-and-a-half or so, I do wait for them to call me, but my ears are really perked up, you know what I mean? Like, oh, what's next? I've done a number of peyote ceremonies the past few months that I wouldn't say that I enjoyed, but had subsequent benefits. One of the main ones being just an amazing union with my girlfriend, Alyson, that kind of came to be as one of those results.

[00:58:26] I had another experience that was really, really fucking wild, where a friend of mine who is a very accomplished musician, who's also been sober off drugs and alcohol like me for a very long time, started to have some experiences with plant medicines. And he worked with the healer here in LA who works with psilocybin and MDMA in conjunction, and in a very therapeutic kind of held space way, not like, cool, let's listen to records and trip out, but it's a whole journey, it's a thing.

[00:58:56] And he explained these experiences he had and just the breakthroughs he had were incredibly life changing and astronomical. So, I just thought, whoa, I have to try this, and I went, and did it. And it was so freaking awesome. I mean, I had no idea that world even existed. I thought, well, yeah, I'll go to Costa Rica every couple of years, and go on a retreat, and do ayahuasca. I wasn't really interested in much else, but that experience was so profound and it was very similar. The combination of those two is very similar to ayahuasca, but just no nausea at all.

[00:59:32] But stuff like the downloads I got, and the solutions to places in which I was stuck, and things that needed to be healed, and creative breakthroughs that I was kind of struggling with, in terms of writing a book and different things that I'm working on, it was just absolutely like just lesson after lesson, insight after insight, just download central, it was freaking nuts. And so, every time one of those happens where I get so much out of it, I find it's a little tempting to be like two weeks later, cool, let's go again. I'm always being mindful of myself because I feel like I'm called every day, you know what I mean? 

[01:00:12] I want to do that shit all the time because every time I do it, I'm like, oh my God, I just like grew by leaps and bounds. And so, it's nice to hear your perspective in just being patient and being mindful that it doesn't become like not only where you're chasing this ecstatic or other worldly experience, but where you're chasing the next insight, and the next healing, and the next trauma, and whatever it is. I think it's important to kind of pace these things, and really have time to integrate, and to be still before jumping into the next one. And I find myself, at times, perhaps a little overzealous because it's such a completely new world to me. So-

[01:00:50]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[01:00:51]Luke Storey:  Like, your very sober and patient perspective on that.

[01:00:57]Deborah Hanekamp:  I know I saw like a lot of that in the ayahuasca world. Actually, I would say like my ex was probably like very kind of addicted to that like rapture experience that you get with it, even though psychedelics in general, and I think ayahuasca, probably ibogaine as well are known to heal addiction, the plants don't work if you have no will. If you have no will, the plants don't work.

[01:01:36] And so, I think like all these insights and like powerful awareness that we get, if we just add like one on top of the other, on top of the other, and don't like sit for a second with it, and like really use our will to practice a little bit of like self-discipline with it, we just kind of get lost in the rapture experience, which I think maybe for me is like right now, that like really profound insight is coming through in ordinariness and like not rushing. And it's coming through rather than with like a calling in and like I'm manifesting things that's coming through with like releasing and de-manifesting things. 

[01:02:21]Luke Storey:  De-manifesting. That's interesting. Interesting concept. I wonder if our friend, Lacy Phillips, has done anything on de-manifesting. In course, how to like simplify your life, and stop bringing more stuff in, and actually, just let some things go, and settle into what you've got. That's an interesting perspective.

[01:02:39]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yes, simple pleasure. I think it's important for us to remember that. Simple pleasure.

[01:02:46]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I'm experiencing that a lot in the time in which we find ourselves in right now, just being home. And I mean, I'm quite busy because I'm an online business person. So, not much has changed for me in terms of output and it's not like I have a bunch of free time, but I'm definitely less distracted by going, I'm going to drive over here and see this person, or go do that, or go have lunch, I'm just staying home more even though I am home a lot anyway.

[01:03:12] But I've really been relishing those moments where—and I just have one this morning. I just walked in the house, and last night, and my girlfriend, Alyson, sitting there upstairs in the bedroom, and there's like a nice deck out there, and it's sunny and beautiful. And she has a cat and I have a dog. And I walk in and I'm just like, what is this life? What incredible life. Just those three entities being in my world, and just being so beautiful, and loving, and imperfect, and nothing happened.

[01:03:43] It's not like I got a check, or a big deal went through, or any kind of profound spiritual realization or moment where God struck me with lightning and everything changed. It's just a really simple, slow-paced recognition of the gifts that are already there in their profound simplicity and beauty, and just really sinking into that gratitude. It's a great reminder. I think in the hustle bustle of the life of a seeker like you, and I, and so many people probably listening, it's like, okay, onto the next thing, onto the next thing. It's like, no, let's just stop and just recognize, wow, I have a couch, you know what I mean? 

[01:04:27]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[01:04:28]Luke Storey:  This is awesome. I have a thing to sit on. I mean, it really can be that simple. And then, you look over and you go, whoa, there's someone that I love deeply sitting here on said couch with me. Oh, my God.

[01:04:41]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah. I've been noticing my family a lot in this situation and being like, wow, these are the people that I'm stuck with, and I'm pretty into it, like, this is great.

[01:04:56]Luke Storey:  That's amazing. As we close, there's two questions I wanted to ask you. One is, what does your meditation practice look like? And has that evolved and changed over the years or do you kind of have a way that you do it, and that's your thing?

[01:05:11]Deborah Hanekamp:  I am open to my meditation practice, shifting, and evolving, and letting come through whatever needs to come through. Although, I have to say that my first intro to meditation was with Zen meditation, which is just sitting in silence and stillness, eyes half-open, staring at a blank wall, and counting your breath until 10, then you walk around in a square. And then, you go back and you sit. And there's a lot more detail with it, but also, like there's not like Zen is the practice of just silence, and stillness, and like emptying out. And so, Zen meditation is always something that I go back to. And my morning practice, it always ends up being wake up before the sun, sit in silence and stillness for around an hour.

[01:06:06]Luke Storey:  Nice. You're my hero. My goal in life is to watch the sun rise every day. When I watch the sun rise, I, 100% of the time, have the best day ever.

[01:06:16]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[01:06:16]Luke Storey:  Sun gaze and the whole thing. But I got in the habit. I live in a canyon, so it's difficult to do. I have to drive four minutes up the hill or something to get to it. And when the sun was rising a few weeks ago at like 10 to 7:00, even a little bit at like 7:00, I was like, yes, I can do this. Now, we're at 6:15, and it's amazing, just that 45 minutes difference in the morning, might as well be four hours because I go to bed, and it's 11:00. I'm like, I ain't getting up at 6:00 and climbing up the hill, but there really is much to be said for that, the energy of the earth in those early morning hours. 

[01:06:56] There's something really transformative and powerful in that stillness before nature's kind of awakening, and coming to life, and things are becoming activated to catch that stillness. So, it's a great reminder. I'm going to make an effort to—I guess I have to go to sleep at 9:30 to get up and do that, which is challenging, but I'll get there. And then, when you pray, what does that look like for you if you even do that in the in a classical sense? How do you commune with God? 

[01:07:28]Deborah Hanekamp:  I sing. 

[01:07:30]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[01:07:33]Deborah Hanekamp:  That's how I pray, I sing. I sing like whatever needs to come through, and I find myself praying a lot into water lately through like singing into water, and then sending that water into larger bodies of water like the East River.

[01:07:56]Luke Storey:  Really? In what way?

[01:08:00]Deborah Hanekamp:  Like taking time with my meditation practice, taking a bowl of water, it's spring water, by the way, and then singing into that water, taking that water in a container down to the East River, and then pouring that water into the East River. So, that way, my city is surrounded with the vibration of the prayer and wherever the water goes out to.

[01:08:35]Luke Storey:  Wow. That's so much cooler than I thought your answer was going to be. I thought, well, I just take time sometimes to just kind of talk to God, hey, thanks. Could we work on this? That's like so epic. I love that. What a great idea. And it reinforces your Scorpioness that I didn't even know about you, that we shared that, that water being the carrier of frequency, and the carrier of information and intention. And of course, that's how you would pray. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

[01:09:07]Deborah Hanekamp:  Thank you.

[01:09:08]Luke Storey:  All right. I've asked you this question before because you've already been on the show, but I'm going to ask it again because I realize, it's like my thing. And recently, I think I forgot a couple times because I've interviewed people about such sort of explosive topics around our current situation. So, I get to the end and I forget, but who have been three teachers that have influenced your life and your work that you might share with us?

[01:09:36]Deborah Hanekamp:  I guess I have to say like who comes up first is like nature, or the spirit of nature, or like Mother Nature. And then, I think, also, my daughter would be a huge teacher for me in my life. And I don't know why, like I just want to say, like Mary Magdalene, and I don't know why, but I just sort of say that. And I think it's because I just read this book called, what's it called, Rituals in Sacred Stone. It's so awesome. It's more of like a historic novel, but I felt a lot of connection to whoever that person was, even if she was just like a consciousness.

[01:10:31]Luke Storey:  Awesome. That's maybe the first time anyone's given that. So, thank you. And now, we can put that book in the show notes, too. We can put your daughter in the show notes, that's all you, but we can put the book. I think that's it. In closing, let's just give people any of your social media, websites, et cetera. Where can people go find you and all your offerings? 

[01:10:53]Deborah Hanekamp:  So, you can find me on Instagram, @mamamedicine. And you can go to my website, mamamedicine.com to book a medicine reading or connect to any of my online events. And you can buy my book, Ritual Baths, anywhere books are sold.

[01:11:09]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming back on. Good to see you and congratulations.

[01:11:13]Deborah Hanekamp:  Oh, good to see you, Luke. Thank you so much for having me.

[01:11:16]Luke Storey:  Of course. You know what I just realized? Actually, I totally forgot about this too, but we were at Mercado Sagrado a couple of years ago, and I saw that you were on the program, and I was speaking there or something, and I went and did an outdoor session that you did with a group of us. I think you did some breath work and-

[01:11:38]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah.

[01:11:39]Luke Storey:  ... like kundalini kriya kind of stuff, and it was freaking dope. I totally forgot about that until this moment. So, I have actually experienced your magic at least in one capacity there, and I look forward to doing it again. 

[01:11:53]Deborah Hanekamp:  Yeah, we'll definitely get you set up with the medicine reading.

[01:11:56]Luke Storey:  All right. Awesome. Take care. I'll see you soon.

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