[00:00:01] Luke: What's it like to work at Google?

[00:00:04] Aaron: It was fun. It was a good job. I was not as awake back then to what Google really was. I was somewhat awake to it, but I wasn't on my radar, if that makes sense. I got a lot of great perks there. You get free food. I also wasn't aware of eating organic back then. So I think me now working there would hate it.

[00:00:25] The environment was definitely intense with the Silicon Valley hustle and bustle. Everyone's walk sprinting to their next meeting and stuff, in a rush, and can't really connect ever. And that was always my least favorite part of being there. But other than that, I had great clients. It was a great job.

[00:00:44] I was a personal trainer, and it was the best paying personal training job I'd ever had. I got to run the CrossFit program at Google for four years as well. So it was really fun. But, when my time there was up, it was up. I wanted to get out, but it was where ironically enough my spiritual awakening happened, at Google.

[00:01:02] Luke: Really?

[00:01:02] Aaron: Yeah.

[00:01:03] Luke: I wish it happened for more people that work.

[00:01:05] Aaron: I know. Right? I've thought about that many times.

[00:01:08] Luke: I haven't gone too far down the rabbit hole of Google and the tech platforms, but in the periphery of conspiracy land, there definitely seems to be murmurs of origins in DARPA and the CIA and things like that. I guess in your time since, as you've become more aware of that, did you see any connections that are more on the nefarious side?

[00:01:34] Aaron: One thing that was apparent to me even back then, and this is when I was 26, 27, 28, it was very apparent the secrecy that they operate with because you have a badge. And I didn't work for Google. I was a contractor at Google.

[00:01:49] Luke: Oh, okay. Got it.

[00:01:50] Aaron: So they give contractors a red badge, and you get to scan in the entrance of most buildings, but you can't really get deep into the Googleplex beyond that, except for where you're allowed to go. So just like the CIA or any three-letter agency, it's very regimented top down. You only get so much access. You only get to know so much.

[00:02:12] Many software engineer clients who were working on drone delivery technology, self-driving cars and stuff, they were like-- and we're good buddies. We've been training for a couple of years, and they would not whisper a word to me about what they were working on. They would just be like, "It has to do with drone technology." "Delivery or?" "I can't say." This is very CIA-ish.

[00:02:35] It felt weird. Why are we keeping everything such a secret? I get it. There's competitors and stuff. It's like, we all work at Google. I'm not going to go drive over to Apple and tell them what you guys are working on. So there was a bit of that as well.

[00:02:47] Luke: Yeah. I think my experience with them is mostly having to do with YouTube. I'm constantly getting videos pulled, and I had one the other day that was, I think a short, and I was talking about colloidal silver. Because I love this nasal spray and this oral, topical. I'm huge on-- yeah.

[00:03:11] What's the brand of silver like? Yeah, Silver Biotics. And so I was like, yeah, dude. Because I used to get sinus infections all the time, and I got on the nasal spray, and it works. Antimicrobial, etc. So the punishment was for medical misinformation. So I went into ChatGPT, and I was like, "I'm just curious. Can you give me 10 studies, legitimate PubMed, NIH studies proving that silver is antimicrobial."

[00:03:45] Thirty seconds later, it writes me a whole rebuttal with all the links. And so I put that in my appeal to not for YouTube. And, the next day is like, no, you broke the rules. This is medical misinformation. I'm like "Oh, you guys clearly don't trust the science because I'm giving you the science." I should know better than to try and fight back.

[00:04:04] But at a certain point, you're like, "Wow, what can you even talk about?" Everyone's going to be relegated to Telegram, Rumble, and all this more fringe platforms.

[00:04:18] Aaron: I have a show called the Great Awakening podcast with a buddy named Jeremy, of mine. And the goal of the show is to discuss world events and the unfolding events happening around us from an enlightened perspective, from a positive perspective of how is this good for humanity in the long run?

[00:04:34] Like Joe Biden winning the election. A lot of people were like, this is the worst thing ever. And of course it's been a disastrous four years in America, but look at all the good it's done, the awakening it's produced. People are significantly more awake than four years ago. So how can you say it was a bad thing?

[00:04:50] So we talk about these kinds of things. And we don't go anywhere near like really intense fringe conspiracies, none of that stuff. We just talked about awakening and consciousness, and we've had two episodes deleted without any warning or explanation, and we're like, "Hey, there's a lot of work for us to make these episodes, a lot of views. Can you tell us at least why you deleted it so we don't make that mistake again?" And they were like, "Promoting violence."

[00:05:15] Complete non answer. We're literally talking about loving each other and forgiving each other. So what do you mean promoting violence? So it's really weird. But didn't you see how Google lost a big lawsuit recently at the, I think the federal level?

[00:05:28] Luke: Oh, really?

[00:05:28] Aaron: Did you not see this?

[00:05:29] Luke: No.

[00:05:30] Aaron: I don't know exactly what it's from, so I won't say, but it had something to do with, I think, the censorship stuff. Oh, they declare that Google is a monopoly, and the judge ordered some-- you have to break up the monopoly in these ways. Apparently, it was a massive blow to Google. But it was good to see that. It's about time we hold some accountability to these megalithic corporations. So that was nice.

[00:05:56] Luke: Totally. It's irritating if you're a content creator and like your intention and mine is to help people ultimately and to share information. And so that's part of it. And if your livelihood is associated with the content, that's another part of it.

[00:06:18] But to me, it's just terrifying because if you look at history, the good guys are never doing the censoring. And it's the slippery slope that leads to totalitarian overreach. It's the first thing is to silence dissent. And then from there, it only gets worse. And I knew a few years ago when they deplatformed Alex Jones, whether or not people like Alex Jones or not, it doesn't matter. I would have felt the same if they deplatformed Rachel Maddow or fucking Anderson Cooper or something.

[00:06:51] Aaron: Yeah, it used to be liberalism 101, was free speech.

[00:06:53] Luke: Yeah. I was like, "Oh, he's just an easy target because he's easy to demonize." And it's the first domino. And it was. It was true. Then all of a sudden, all these other people start getting deplatformed after him.

[00:07:02] Few people are going to stand up for him because he's so controversial. But if they can knock him down, then it's like, wow, this is just kind of protocol now. Now we can delete someone for talking about freaking colloidal silver like that's going to hurt someone

[00:07:17] Aaron: Oh my goodness. I think people are asking. I don't know if Elon has said he's going to do this, but I saw that Elon is at least considering buying InfoWars. They said you have to auction it off, and Elon's like, "I'll buy it."

[00:07:31] Luke: I saw that.

[00:07:32] Aaron: That'd be a sick move if he did that.

[00:07:33] Luke: That would be hilarious. Oh my God.

[00:07:37] Aaron: But it also says something really good about the awakening of humanity, I think, in that people are learning, and it's more happening on the top levels of the Elons, the Donald Trumps, the RFKs. But people from different sides of the aisle and different belief systems and stuff are finding commonality and unity in what's most important to us-- end the disease epidemic, stop the illegal immigration happening, inflation. And they're just coming together saying, let's just put aside all our differences and work together on something we all agree is good. And I'm obviously not political and don't vote and stuff, but it's still great to see all these lifelong Democrats, Tulsi Gabbard, Bret Weinstein, liberal professor of the year, RFK.

[00:08:19] Oh my gosh. The Kennedys were the Democratic party. More people I could name coming to the right just to say, look, we just agree on the important things. Let's have each other's backs. And I'm like, "See, that's a good sign that we're waking up."

[00:08:34] Luke: Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of that too. And I share your perspective. I'm sure you know the parable. It's been attributed to many cultures, Taoist or the Upanishads, but the story about the farmer whose son goes off and catches a wild horse.

[00:08:50] Aaron: Oh, I haven't heard this one.

[00:08:50] Luke: And everyone in the town comes says, "Wow, this is so amazing. You guys have an extra horse." And the wise man farmer says, "We shall see." And the son goes out to train the horse, to break the horse, gets thrown off, breaks his leg. Everyone says, "Oh, we're sorry."

[00:09:03] Aaron: Oh yeah. I've heard Alan Watts tell this.

[00:09:06] Luke: And it goes on and on.

[00:09:08] Aaron: And he says, "We'll see. We'll see."

[00:09:09] Luke: Yeah, we shall see. We shall see. And then it never ends. It's just perpetual because we can only judge a situation based on the limited perspective and time that we have, but we don't know what's on the other side of it.

[00:09:20] And so you're speaking to that which I remind myself of all the time because we seem to be creeping toward this dystopian nightmare yet at the same time I don't know what's on the other side of that. In 10 years, we can look back and go, "Oh my God. Remember when the communists tried to take over and all they did was just wake everyone up and now we live in a much more free society?"

[00:09:41] Aaron: Well, let me tell you why I think that's definitely what's gonna happen.

[00:09:45] Luke: Please do.

[00:09:45] Aaron: I spend a lot of time thinking about these things. I just love the dynamics of the collective consciousness and karma and how it all works. It's endlessly fascinating to me. And with all the principles I've learned from the Law of One about the metaphysics of energy and stuff, I apply those principles to what I'm seeing in our world, and it helps me make so much sense out of it all and to see where it might be heading soon.

[00:10:09] And so I've thought a lot about this question, and I'd love to hear your take on this. We know that, and this is something Alex Jones talks about all the time, that they, the globalists, the deep state--

[00:10:19] Luke: The globalist.

[00:10:20] Aaron: Whatever you want to call them. The they. They have to tell you what they're going to do. Alex Jones always says this.

[00:10:28] Luke: Revelation of the method.

[00:10:29] Aaron: Yeah. David Icke says this. And they're absolutely correct. The Law of One says that all is one, and so you cannot violate anyone's free will without you yourself receiving that same violation at some point. So the same degree to which I violate somebody else, the law must violate me in equal measure.

[00:10:48] And we call that karma, but it's really just balance. Just the universe is keeping balance. What you give out, you get back. And so the negative polarity, which is what I call it, the darkness, that idea, the negative polarity in consciousness understands this very well, that we can't just-- I guess I have to set up a little context.

[00:11:09] The negative polarity gains power by taking control over others. The positive polarity, of which you and I and our listeners are on, we gain spiritual power by serving and loving others and being humble and kind. Honoring free will is how we gain more spiritual polarity. The negative gains spiritual polarity the opposite way.

[00:11:30] But the caveat is, I can't just show up to your house, throw a bunch of handcuffs on you, lock you in a dungeon, and say, "I own you now. Now I'm more negative than before." Not that easy. I have to come to your house and knock, knock, knock. "Hey, my name's Aaron. I'm selling this product. Can I come in and talk with you?"

[00:11:48] And I have to slowly trick you into giving me your free will. I have to sweet talk you. And as we know, the way that the negative polarity always does this is with the false light tactic of, you've got light in you, of course, like every being does, but you're not aware of it yet, so I can play with it and use it against you.

[00:12:05] So I say, "Hey, Luke. You're not racist, are you?" "No, of course not." "So you wouldn't ever vote for XYZ policy, would you? Because that'd be racist, right?" "Yeah, no, no, that's bad. I don't agree with that." "Good, good. So you'll vote this way, right?" "Oh, yes, yes." So now I got your free will tacitly by tricking you.

[00:12:24] But the universe has to honor that because the universe does count our ignorance against us. You know what I mean? Just because you don't know something doesn't mean you're not going to still experience the consequences of it. Jesus has an interesting parable on this where he said the servant who disobeys his master on accident will be beaten with few blows. The servant who disobeys his master on purpose will be beaten with many blows. You remember that parable?

[00:12:50] Luke: No. I like that though.

[00:12:52] Aaron: It's in Matthew, and it's spot on. He's always nailing these universal laws. The universe is kinder to us when we accidentally make a mistake. It doesn't slap you as hard. When you know what you're doing and you violate the law, you get slapped pretty freaking hard and harder and harder the more you do it.

[00:13:09] So the negative polarity has to always contend with this problem of, how do we take away their power and free will by getting them to agree with it? That's fricking hard thing to do. So you got to use a lot of brainwashing tactics, a lot of propaganda, mind control, and they do that exceptionally well.

[00:13:25] But check it out. We just had the plandemic few years ago. And what was it? 30% or more of people resisted taking the pokey pokey, something like 30%. It's probably more than that, honestly. If they say 30, it's probably 40. But who knows. A solid percentage of people were like, "No way." And I don't think they expected that fraction of the populace to see what they're doing and be like, "No, no, no. You're not getting me with that thing."

[00:13:53] I think they probably thought 90-plus percent of people won't even think twice. They'll do whatever we say, stupid plebs. And we didn't. A lot of us were like, "Oh, I wasn't born yesterday. I see what you're doing." And I think it stumped them and probably has caused a lot of concern in the controllers of our planet that are trying to do these things.

[00:14:12] They're like, "Damn. They're way more awake than we thought. So now what do we do?" Because you don't go back to sleep once you wake up, and they know that. So there's a tipping point I think that they're getting too soon, or I guess our whole planet's getting to, where it's like, what happens when the vast majority of people don't fall into their psyops anymore because there's too much awakening.

[00:14:36] And I feel like we're maybe already at that point or very close to it, and it's like, we know that they know that we know that they know, that they can't get us anymore.

[00:12:47] Luke: Totally.

[00:12:48] Aaron: What is the negative polarity do then? And we know that these people are full of greed, lust for power. This is what they eat, sleep, and breathe-- power, taking power. They don't have another reason for existing. They do heinously immoral things to get this power. So it shows their desperation for it.

[00:15:06] So it's like, do we really expect that when they know we're at the point where none of their psyops are going to work-- they may work on like 10% of the population. That's not good enough to take control of the planet. So what do they do at that point? Do they say, "Well, guys, we gave it our best shot. Let's pack up our bags and go home and sing kumbaya?"

[00:15:24] I don't think they do that. I think they say, F it. Just do it anyways. And they're going to get more desperate in how they infringe on our free will. And so here's where the positive negative antithesis we just talked about really comes into play is that-- it's like, we want them to violate our free will that way, because then the laws of the universe work on our behalf.

[00:15:45] The law say, "Hey, if you violate anybody, you get violated." So if they say, "Take this thing," and we say, "No," and they say, "Fine. We'll throw you in a prison cell and make you take it," they're in big trouble. Karma is going to come for them. Their plans are going to start dematerializing and falling apart.

[00:16:01] And I think they know that, but it's like we're going to get to that point very soon where, again, they know that we know that they know that we know they can't get us anymore. And then we should expect, I think, more open tyranny or at least attempts to create more open tyranny. I don't think that this thing we're in right now gets more peaceful over time. Maybe it does. I could totally be wrong.

[00:16:23] But I think knowing how the negative polarity works, it gets more intense over time and has a steep drop off. And that's what we've seen through history with government overthrows. This does repeat itself. The negative polarity doesn't like to give up their power. And they get to that point where they're like, "We'll go down with the ship. Bring it on." And I think we're going to get to that point.

[00:16:43] Luke: That's a great perspective. Yeah. I've observed the desperation with which they're moving over the past few years and the sloppiness. It's like, this has been going on for--

[00:16:57] Aaron: Look at the Kamala campaign.

[00:16:58] Luke: Yeah, it's hundreds if not, I'm sure thousands of thousands of years in different forms. But in my lifetime, I think our faith in institutions was pretty strong up until recently. I think the Internet and 9/11 were the tipping point where a few of us were like, "Wait, hold up.

[00:17:19] But they were so much more covert in their operations. It was all like black ops behind the scenes and the propaganda was so effective pre-internet and also pre social media. I can text you some information now, and it can change your whole worldview if you happen to believe it or look into it.

[00:17:40] And it's like, one part of me thinks, and this is the more positive thinking part, is that the consciousness of humanity has risen to a point where all of that nefarious activity that had been lurking in the shadows before was forced to reveal itself. And so they started pushing harder against the light because more of us are waking up.

[00:18:08] And to your point, and I think with the plandemic to where we are now, it's only getting worse. They're in panic mode and getting super sloppy and as a result, waking more people up. Even post plandemic, the stuff that you talk about, all these leaders that were more leftists are kind of going, "Wait, hold on. I can't even be on board with this anymore if it's going too far."

[00:18:31] Aaron: This isn't the Democratic Party I've always known.

[00:18:33] Luke: Exactly. And so it's interesting to see, again, from my more optimistic point of view that I think we already are at the point where they're going to start effing themselves based on what you just said. Because now they're pinned in a corner and they have no choice but to break those laws.

[00:18:55] Aaron: Yeah. Like cornering a scared animal.

[00:18:58] Luke: Right.

[00:18:59] Aaron: We've seen this already in a number of examples, I think. Number one would be the rise of independent media and podcasts completely crushing mainstream media. Do you think they saw that coming? I promise you they didn't. Or they would have done something about it. They got over the pandemic, especially-- they got wiped out so fast. I don't think anyone could have predicted how fast we've seen the fall of mainstream media. So you know they for sure didn't see it.

[00:19:24] And my question is, why didn't they see it? If all they do is plot and scheme to take control over humanity, and these people are incredibly intelligent, very well organized-- got to give them credit at what they're good at-- and they usually plan and button up every little thing there is to button up, but they absolutely missed this one like a fast ball down the middle, and they didn't even swing at it. Why?

[00:19:47] And I think, this is my theory, this is what happens to people who have powers. They get so removed from anyone else because they have the superiority complex, I'm so rich and powerful, and I make decisions. I run the world. That they're too busy up in their high castle with silk sheets looking down at the plebs. Like I wonder what the plebs are doing down there. It's like, well, they have social media and the Internet, and they're doing podcasting, and all they listen to is podcasts. They hate all of your channels. Oh, that's not good. Until it's too late, they don't realize it.

[00:20:20] Luke: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:21] Aaron: They're too far removed.

[00:20:22] Luke: Yeah. It's like a macrocosm of the way that I view the ego. The ego, it's very clever, but it's really dumb.

[00:20:35] Aaron: Yes. Yeah.

[00:20:35] Luke: It's so manipulative, so cunning and evasive, and it has a skillset, based on my own experience with the ego in my persona, but it also makes really dumb decisions. You look at pretty much anyone in prison, it's just the ego told them to do something and they were like, "Oh, this is a great idea." And they followed through with it, and there you are, prison for life or whatever, just as an example, or a divorce, or ruining your company, or getting fired.

[00:21:07] Any of this stupid shit humans do are usually done on the basis of just an egoic dominance where there's an over identification with ego. And it seems like they're suffering in the macrocosm of the same thing. They have all this scheming stuff that they do and they're so clever, but in the big picture, they're really dumb, to your point, of not seeing this wave of independent media coming that's going to totally upend their propaganda machine.

[00:21:36] Aaron: Yes. And like, Bitcoin, crowdsourcing, and so many disruptive, decentralized technologies are coming down the barrel at these people, AI. They're trying to control it, but it's like, how do you control AI?

[00:21:50] Luke: Right.

[00:21:51] Aaron: You can't really control it. You can control part of it maybe, but anyone who's smart can make an AI bot, or an organization of people could come together and make a new AI bot that's superior to yours or just as good. And I think just like we've seen with YouTube versus Rumble, censorship and non-censorship, we're going to see the same thing with AI.

[00:22:11] We're going to see, whether it's ChatGPT or Google's AI, where you're like, "Tell me something positive about Donald Trump." And it's like, "I can't do that." "Tell me something positive about Joe Biden. Five paragraphs." It's like, "Okay." this is clearly a biased AI. It's not an authentic AI.

[00:22:26] But somebody else is going to make one that is authentic and we'll tell you both sides, doesn't care. It's just an algorithm, and people are going to start using that one instead of Google's. And we're going to see these bifurcations keep happening.

[00:22:36] And it is to me amazing, to your point, that it works exactly like the ego. You crush egos program in one area, it'll try to invent a new one. It'll pop up over here like whack-a-mole. And then you have that interesting paradox how the ego is always incidentally creating the problems it tries to solve.

[00:22:56] It creates its own lack and then tries to solve its lack with attachments, but that leads to more lack and all these kinds of things. And yeah, you see the controllers doing similar things because they're driven by their egos, right?

[00:23:08] Luke: Yeah. That brings up something that was on my list here that I've heard you talk about. And I haven't heard many people talk about this, and it's been something that's been so helpful to me and save me from so many mistakes, and that's this idea of the spiritual ego. Speaking to where you're going with this is how it will shapeshift and morph and just attach on to any identity you have, not the least of which being becoming holy.

[00:23:43] And I learned this, not that I'm perfect at it. I'm sure mine gets the best of me at times when I'm less aware of it. But I had a mentor in addiction recovery years ago, and he used that term. He said, "Man, you got to be careful." You're sober and you start to get more spiritual understanding and your gifts start to emerge.

[00:24:05] Your ego's riding shotgun and will very likely take hold and create a new identity around being someone who's spiritual. And so he was telling me about this. And at one point, I think it was around 2004, I went to India for a month. I went on the spiritual pilgrimage and2 learned to meditate, Deeksha blessings, and all this stuff.

[00:24:32] And it was beautiful. And I went over there to ostensibly get out of my ego to become more in touch with my true self, my higher self and so on. And I came back, and I've told this story a bunch of times because it's so hilarious, but I came back and I was doing namaste to everyone. And my guide at the time rode a Harley. He was a Vietnam vet from Louisiana. He was a tough customer.

[00:25:01] Aaron: I bet he called you out.

[00:25:02] Luke: Yeah, he didn't play with that world. He was annoyed that I was going over there and I didn't understand that. But anyway, I came back, and I'm wearing the robes and doing the Namaste and have the beads and everything. And he just was like, "Get the fuck out of here with that."

[00:25:16] And he basically cut me off. I think the way he went about it was maybe a little sloppy, but the intentionality behind it and the wisdom behind it was like, man, you went over there to lose your ego and you just came back with an ego with a different wardrobe basically.

[00:25:33] And it was this feeling of like, I'm special. I'm spiritual now. I'm so peaceful. And it was very performative. And I was totally unaware of it. So despite the harshness with which he delivered that message, it did snap me out of it, thankfully, and I was like, "Oh shit." It's like, it'll grab onto anything and start to build a structure.

[00:25:55] So maybe you could elaborate on your experience with this phenomenon because now we see more people in the world that are, thankfully, becoming involved with different spiritual practices and belief systems and stuff, but it's something people don't talk about a lot.

[00:26:12] And I think it's one of the major landmines that in its worst or more pronounced expression is the fallen guru. Someone who has like real legitimate spiritual gifts or can perform cities and miracles, and they don't know about this phenomenon of ego. Takes them over, and the next thing you know, they're exploiting and abusing people and forming cults and stuff.

[00:26:34] Aaron: Yeah, yeah. It's pretty prevalent. It's not a small percentage, I think, of just spiritual people in general, but especially well-known influencers, thought leaders, teachers, whatever, that when you've really like just wrestled with your own spiritual ego and tried so hard to integrate it and transcend it, you can spot it way easier than other people, and it's no judgement at all, of course.

[00:27:01] Every single person, I think, who begins a spiritual journey will have the spiritual ego hijacking it from the start. It's inevitable. You don't have the awareness to circumvent it from happening, and you don't need to because it's part of the process. But you will get to these points where if you don't start becoming aware of it, it is going to start taking your life in a bad direction where you might become the scandalous guru who gets caught having slept with all of his clients or whatever.

[00:27:31] That's where it can lead. And it doesn't usually lead people that far, but it can. So for me, when I was 27 through 29, 30, I thought for sure spiritually you ain't got nothing on me. I'm super humble. I don't play with that stuff. I got too much awareness for that. And I lived with very solid confidence that my spiritual ego didn't have me very much for four or five years like that.

[00:27:59] And then right around 30, 31, just a new dimension of awareness started slowly formulating for me that allowed me to see, oh my gosh, I have a huge spiritual ego. And I totally thought that it was virtually non-existent, but I saw all the ways it was slipping into my practices, the way I speak. And it's obviously at different levels for everybody.

[00:28:25] Some people it's very overt when you meet them, the robes and the Namaste. It's not to say that everybody who wears robes and says Namaste is definitely hijacked by their spiritual ego, but it is to say, in my experience, for sure most of them are. And again, it's not a huge deal to me because I'd rather somebody have a big spiritual ego than them not be on a spiritual path at all.

[00:28:47] I think they're in a better spot. But it is part of the journey is to become aware of that part of yourself. And so this is a lot of what I teach, is like, what is the ego? Because we can't really get behind it until we firmly understand what it is. And for me, the ego, essentially, I have three working definitions I'll use for it.

[00:29:08] But the first and main one is that the ego is the mental activity of identifying that thing, that impulse we have to be like, that's mine. I this, I that. I am this. I'm that. My thought, my feeling. That's ego. I, me, my. And that program in our mind is just sort of designed to claim anything placed in front of it, whether it's an idea, a form, a man or a woman. It's going to claim everything as mine in some way.

[00:29:36] So when you start a spiritual journey, honestly, it's the same essential frequency that captures the radical left with the false light of, I'm so virtuous. I'm so spiritual. I'm so moral. I care so much more than other people. Therefore, I know that you're a bad person and that I care more than you.

[00:29:56] That is the spiritual ego. But I think it's being weaponized in the radical left of our culture in a very elementary way. Most of those people in that camp to me don't seem to be on a deeply devout spiritual path, but they're aware of morality. It's even interesting how like I've noticed the radical left people-- I know very few people that would say that they're on far left.

[00:30:24] But the ones I do know, they've started using words like healing and stuff, and I'm like, "Wow, look at that." Even the radical left is evolving where for a better part of a decade in our country, we've seen them do nothing but cry and bemoan the victim, and everyone's evil. Everything's bad. Everything's systemic. Racism, bigotry. And you're like, "Okay, guys. We get it. We pretty much agree with you. Do you have a solution? Are you promoting a solution here, or are you just complaining and hating everybody?"

[00:30:51] Because let's talk solutions. How do we solve the systemic issues that you're so angry about? And of course, healing is the number one way to do that, to solve any problem. But you haven't really heard any big name, thought leader in the radical left movement like talking about healing as a thing. Like, hey, you don't actually have to be a victim forever about all the racist things that happen to you or the misogyny. You can heal from stuff.

[00:31:16] I've never seen that be said before. But recently I'm starting to see on TikTok and stuff, they've got the blue hair, the pink hair or whatever, it's how they show what side they're on, and they're talking about healing and even doing videos of themselves trying to heal, somatically screaming and stuff.

[00:31:32] And they get made fun of and all that. But I'm like, "No, that's actually good. That's progress." They're starting to become of that part of their ego that they need to do something about or it's going to keep owning them, and that's a good thing.

[00:31:45] The Course in Miracles to me, Luke, says two things about ego that are so spot on and simple and yet very paradoxical. The first statement, A Course in Miracles says, "The ego wants what it hates." It took me a long time to understand what that means, but it's what we said a minute ago of how it, inadvertently is always creating its own problems.

[00:32:09] I've used the example of a guy chasing a girl he knows he can't get. She's turned him down a bunch. He won't take no for an answer. And he just keeps putting himself in increasingly embarrassing situations to get this girl to accept him. And she keeps rejecting him. And his friends are like, "Dude, give it up, bro. She's not into you."

[00:32:26] It's like that. He can't stop himself. He's got to get the girl. But he knows she doesn't want him, but he's got to get her. And that's the rock and the hard place ego keeps us between. So it's like, yeah, it wants what it hates and despises. And the other interesting thing the course says is it says the ego is your own intelligence used against you.

[00:32:48] And I think that speaks to your point really well, that you can't say the ego is not an intelligent mental program because it owns us. All day long, 99% of people are fully captured by it and don't even know it. So that's a lot of intelligence. And yet it produces very embarrassing, immature behavior that's not intelligent. So it's your own intelligence being weaponized against you. And isn't that exactly what the negative polarity on our planet tries to do? Is use people's intelligence against them,

[00:33:18] Luke: Yeah. It also makes us very prone to weaponized compassion.

[00:33:25] Aaron: False fighting.
[00:33:26] Luke: Yeah. It's like hitting vulnerable spot, the best part of us that's caring, compassionate, and loving and wants equality and fairness and hates to see anyone harmed and all of those things. And it's like a lot of the propaganda is really targeted at that of getting inside someone's compassion and misdirecting it in forms of hatred.

[00:33:53] Aaron: Yeah. Love without wisdom.

[00:33:55] Luke: Yeah, exactly.

[00:33:56] Aaron: That's all it is.
[00:33:57] Luke: It reminds me of what you're talking about around, I guess it was 2016 when Donald Trump was running for president. And I have no horse in any political race. I could give two shits who is the figure head--

[00:34:12] Aaron: I'm with you.

[00:34:12] Luke: Of any kind of institution in that way. It's like two wings on the same bird to me because I don't believe in any form of government at all.

[00:34:22] Aaron: I'm with you, bro.

[00:34:23] Luke: It's another conversation. But one thing I did observe was people getting so riled up about that guy because he's so bombastic, obnoxious, and egotistical and just shoots from the hip. But what I really started to see emerging was what they didn't like about him was that he's hateful. And so there's the predominant kind of thought or I guess attitude was, we hate the people that hate. You know what I mean?

[00:34:51] Aaron: Yeah.

[00:34:51] Luke: We just hate the orange man and anyone that likes the orange man, we hate them because they're so hateful. It's just this--

[00:34:59] Aaron: They can't see.

[00:35:00] Luke: This repercussion of more hatred rather than maybe, as you said, moving towards solutions. Well, we don't like that guy because we think he's hateful. So let's amplify and elevate the things that we love or the people that we love or support. It's this antagonistic tearing down rather than focusing that energy on building something else.

[00:35:27] Aaron: Yeah, yeah. It's like something you want to ask them of like, hey, what makes you happy? Do you just only hate things, or do you have something you love? As an ideology or whatever you want to call it, what do you guys love and champion and get behind and are passionate about?

[00:35:45] Let's talk more about that because we all know what you hate. Oh my gosh, we all know what you hate. We've talked about it. We get it. Now let's move to something positive. That's another shift, I think, we might see. But it's interesting you bring up the 2016 because I was working at Google when Trump was running.

[00:36:00] Luke: Oh, you were? Oh, shit.

[00:36:01] Aaron: Oh yeah, dude. So this is what red pilled me out of being a liberal. For eight years I would have said I'm a bleeding-heart liberal. RFK, a Kennedy Democrat. And this is what woke me up out of it because I grew up-- I'm a third-generation pastor's kid. I grew up very conservative, was always conservative.

[00:36:19] And then at 18, 19, when I started to really question my religious beliefs, I started to see the flaws in the conservative movement and thought, oh, okay. Actually, I've been wrong my whole life. Conservatism is the bad side. Liberalism is actually the good side. What a plot twist?

[00:36:37] I thought they were the bad guys this whole time. So whoops, switch camps. Now I'm a liberal. Yeah, bleeding heart liberal. Eight years that was my MO until 27, 28. Trump is running. All of my clients-- I'm in the Silicon Valley, Google-- all of them, totally far left leaning and, dude, at least 50% of my clients, if not more than that, wanted to talk about absolutely nothing but Donald Trump for the entire year that he was campaigning and running, even after he got elected and stuff.

[00:37:10] And at first I was into it. I would talk about, yeah, Trump. He's terrible. For sure. Yeah, he said this terrible thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as it went forward, there's a part of us that likes to be contrarian, and some people have this personality type stronger than others, but I think all of us to a degree have it where if I'm trying really hard to convince you of something, Luke-- Luke, you got to see it this way, brother-- you're naturally going to be like, let me find the opposite perspective, and let's poke some holes in this.

[00:37:40] And that's how I started to feel where I'm like, "I'm going to push back a little bit because this is starting to sound a little deranged to me. Yeah, yeah. He said some naughty things, and it's derogatory. I don't support it. But like Hitler? Chill, relax.

[00:37:55] Luke: There's a pretty big bridge to cross there.

[00:37:59] Aaron: And so I started to push back a little bit. And to my surprise, my clients, who I was very close with, did not like it. And we would get into these, not arguments or whatever, but debates where, for example, they're trying to prove-- they're like, "Trump is a sexual assault predator." And I would say, "Whoa. What evidence do you have?" "Well, he said, grab them by the blank."

[00:38:23] And I said, "But none of that has to do with assault. He's a billionaire bragging to his friend about how, hey, when you're a billionaire, women love you. They fall all over you. They'll let you do whatever you want to them. You can grab them by the-- he's just talking about what it's like to be super wealthy and have women throw themselves at you. He never said, oh yeah, when I get a woman alone, I push her into the corner and make her do stuff."

[00:38:43] And that's how they acted like he was talking. And I realized like, oh, you guys aren't really living in reality. You've just got this deranged hatred for this guy. And I saw, because the only thing on the TV screens at Google was CNN or MSNBC, and I'm watching everybody, myself included, my clients watching CNN as we're working out. And I started to realize like, oh, I'm a propaganda container. They keep it locked down here, like CNN everywhere, no other outlets. All the signs on the poster boards are about woke stuff, and my clients are deranged about Trump and I had to accept that.

[00:39:16] Luke: TDS.

[00:39:17] Aaron: Yes.

[00:39:18] Luke: It's a real psychological phenomenon.

[00:39:21] Aaron: Dude, I experienced it firsthand, and it absolutely is a legitimate mind virus.

[00:39:25] Luke: Created by the media.

[00:39:27] Aaron: Absolutely, created by the media. But what's funny about this, dude, is I had a buddy named Corey who was a little older than me who worked at Google. We became friends at the gym and then I needed a roommate. I'm living in the Bay Area. I'm a poor, broke personal trainer. I got to have a roommate.

[00:39:44] And so he's like, "I'm going to be moving too. Maybe we get an apartment together." I'm like, "Oh, cool, man." And I didn't know about his political affiliation. And I'm still left leaning at this point. I'm 27, I think. And we get a room together, an apartment together, a two-bedroom apartment.

[00:40:01] And now we're living together and having more conversations. And he starts to talk to me about Trump and how Trump's not this evil guy that the media is painting him to be, and that all the people at Google who are like anti-Trump, they're all sick in the head. The media has infected their minds.

[00:40:16] And I was like, "No way. You expect me to believe that?" I was in that camp at first. But because I lived with the guy, we're talking every night, and he's slowly kind of red-pilled on that whole TDS, the Trump derangement syndrome. And this was in 2016, dude, before Trump was even what he is today. And so that was also an awakening to realize that I was actually in a very much a propaganda container and was oblivious to it until I started seeing the TDS.

[00:40:44] You can only talk about the same subject so much. And it's like, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, session 1, session 2. Everybody wants to talk about how much they hate Trump. And I'm a very, obviously, spiritual person, and I don't like to talk negatively about anybody. Even the people that I know are like openly tyrants, I don't want to say negative things about them because that lowers my frequency.

[00:41:04] So it started to wear on me, all this negativity. And then I was like, "Oh my gosh, I've been in this bubble world and didn't even know it." So there's a lot of awakenings that happen, I think, in our journey that show you like, look, awareness is infinite. And don't ever think for a moment that you've got all the awareness you need to have to be aware of everything you need to be aware of. That is the spiritual ego that tries to convince you of that.

[00:41:28] Luke: Beautiful. God, what a funny few years it's been, just thinking back since 2016 and all that's happened in the world.

[00:41:37] Aaron: What a wild four years.

[00:41:38] Luke: It's funny because I think that the machine, one of the tactics it uses to exert control is it just creates chaos. You just see every day you just--

[00:41:53] Aaron: Like the ego.

[00:41:54] Luke: Yeah, exactly. It's just one thing after another. You can't even keep up. And it seems like a lot of it doesn't even really serve a purpose. It's just craziness. The changes you see in culture and geopolitically. It's just noise at a certain point, just to get everyone riled up and paying attention over there while the sleight of hand is doing something that actually matters over here.

[00:42:19] Aaron: Oh my gosh, man.

[00:42:20] Luke: But that's when it really started to become clear to me around that time. I didn't do it. I don't know anything about politics, especially that. I never voted in my life. I still haven't.

[00:42:30] Aaron: Oh, never.

[00:42:31] Luke: Yeah, dude, I never watched the news, newspaper. I couldn't tell you who the president was. I knew nothing.

[00:42:37] Aaron: Couldn't tell you who the president--

[00:42:38] Luke: Really, honestly. Just in my own world.

[00:42:40] Aaron: It's a nice place to be.

[00:42:42] Luke: But when 2006 came out, there's a dude on TV who I knew had been on a reality show, some rich guy, and all I noticed was he was on TV talking to the news cameras going, "You guys are fake news."

[00:42:58] Aaron: Fake news.
[00:42:59] Luke: Yeah. And I was like, "I don't know anything really that's happening here, but I like that a lot." Because by that time I knew about just the fraudulent nature of the mainstream media because I've been following alternative media for so long. I might be in a gym somewhere and CNN's on. I'm just like, "Whoa, dude. People still believe this stuff?

[00:43:20] Aaron: Yeah, it's wild.

[00:43:21] Luke: So when he came out and was doing that, I was like, whatever that part is is a net positive.

[00:43:26] Aaron: Oh yes. You just described the Trump effect. This is what I think. All my big Trump supporting friends, what they would try to articulate to somebody if they were asked to, what's with Trump man? Why do you think he's the hero? They'd probably say like, "He's not like the hero, but when you look at American politics and the way it's been pretty much since the beginning, especially since TV, we are inundated with these fake plastic puppet politician talking heads who get in front of a news camera room, they're giving a press conference or whatever, and they're literally just-- Biden will just read off a note card.

[00:44:05] He's shameless about it. Reading what somebody else wrote. And we become so desensitized to the utter lack of authenticity with our politicians. We don't even expect them to be real people. We watch the next group of candidates every four years come up and run, and it's like we always know that they're not really being who they are, that they're presenting an image, they're scripted, rehearsed, and planned. And it's all fake. And we're just so used to it. We're like, "Okay, which fake guy will I vote for this time?"

[00:44:36] And America's fallen asleep to the inauthenticity that we've been bombarded with in politics. And so when you're used to people reading off a teleprompter, you're like, "This is the best we'll get." And then Trump gets up. He's like, "Fake news. I'm going to throw you in jail." Everyone's like, "Yeah, somebody who's real."

[00:44:53] And then his critics were like, "But he said a bad thing 10 years ago." And everyone else was like, "Don't care. You guys are faking a lie to us." And that's it. It's not more complicated than that. He was just the first real outsider who got in and shook up the machine and changed the game a bit.

[00:45:11] He was that big wrench in the gears for them that I don't think they expected either. And still probably can't believe they haven't gotten rid of this guy yet. So for all the criticisms you can give of Trump, and I gave him a lot of criticisms because I don't agree with everything he does or says.

[00:45:26] Luke: Me too. Operation Warp Speed.

[00:45:28] Aaron: Warp Speed. We could go on and on, dude.

[00:45:30] Luke: Yeah, there's a lot big fumbles.
[00:45:28] Aaron: But it's like, what did we get with Bush? What did we get with Obama? Nothing but fumbles for four years and no intention of actually carrying the ball to the goal.

[00:45:41] Luke: Endless wars too.

[00:45:42] Aaron: Endless proxy wars. And so Trump, no new wars in four years, called out the fake news media. You could rattle off a ton of huge net positives that Trump brings to the game. And so even if like people listening are like, "No, I'm a huge critic of Trump. I'll never accept him as being a good for humanity." That's fine. But you can at least appreciate, can't you, the way he's shaken up the machine.

[00:46:05] And if I think most people would agree that that's a very good thing because nobody likes the machine we live with, these are the necessary things that have to happen for consciousness to evolve. Surely none of us expect we can go from Obama and Bush, Dick Cheney. My goodness, actual villains running the country.

[00:46:26] Luke: Yeah. Genocidal maniacs.

[00:46:28] Aaron: Genocidal maniacs who have a higher body count than any 10 serial killers combined are running our country, and we expect that we're just going to get a light beam.

[00:46:40] Luke: The Dalai Lama next.

[00:46:41] Aaron: Yes, exactly. It's like, no, no, no. We're going to get a slight improvement on that and then a slight improvement on that, and in 100 years maybe we get a genuine spiritually embodied person.

[00:46:52] Luke: Yeah. Although the Dalai Lama did some weird stuff a couple of years ago, so they say. I don't know what happened with all that.

[00:46:58] Aaron: Or the pope. Well, not him either.

[00:47:01] Luke: Eckhart Tolle. I don't know.

[00:47:02] Aaron: There you go. A holy person.

[00:47:04] Luke: Yeah, yeah. Someone who's actually awake and truly compassionate and real. The way I look at politicians now after all these years is they're literally just like mob bosses. These are like mafia families. And so we go left, right, Democrat, Republican. For the most part, I guess, different tiers of power and influence, but all still part of the same crime syndicate.

[00:47:31] And the only difference between a John Gotti and a Bill Clinton is literally just one's a really good actor and one's not. And one is kind of ordained by the system and one's working outside of the system. That's really how I look at these people. They're just criminals, straight up.

[00:47:53] Aaron: Oh my gosh, who's more of a criminal than them? A genuine question. There's not even a close second. And when you really think about all of the harm that they cause people with their policies, executive orders, and decisions, the wars they get people into, under the Biden administration, we've started Russia-Ukraine, Israel-Palestine. I think $400 billion they've spent on war in the last four years. Did you see the video of Josh Shapiro signing bombs they just bought to Ukraine?

[00:48:27] Luke: Dude, evil. That's psycho.

[00:48:31] Aaron: I don't know if I can think of something more openly evil than that other than let's have a child sacrifice on TV, which would never happen. That's about as evil as they'll ever show their hand. And it staggers the mind a bit to think that they are doing this in the open as if they think the population won't find a problem with this, or at least not enough of them will.

[00:48:352] And again, that's something they're wrong about and out of touch with, same with I think it was Hillary recently was on a news piece saying people that engage in propaganda, which was the exact term she used, we should think about charging them civilly or even criminally to prevent them engaging from propaganda. So she's in so few words saying, if somebody is involved in information that we say is propaganda, they should go to prison for it. And it's like, she just said that on the news. That means she seeks.

[00:49:26] Luke: Said the quiet part out loud.

[00:49:27] Aaron: Yeah. She thinks people will hear that and not find a problem.

[00:49:30] Luke: That means you and I right now, after this conversation, here comes the SWAT team. We would qualify because we're being critical of the system as a whole and naming some individuals within that system that we feel are participating in criminal activity and just overall evil.

[00:49:50] Aaron: And who decides what propaganda is? You have to give the decision-making powers to somebody, and that's why under the Law of One and as is with common law, it's very simple. It's just really one law, which is why it's called the Law of One, which is the law of do no harm.

[00:50:08] Don't harm other people, and you can do whatever you want. It's a freewill universe, but you just can't cause harm to people. And if you do cause harm, you just make remedy. That's literally what Jesus taught. Word for word, the Gospel of Jesus, the whole Torah, all of the law and prophets are summarized in this one single commandment. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

[00:50:31] And the reason he says the second commandment is like the first one is because really the only way you can actually show that you love God with all your heart is to love people. Because God is in everybody, so you can't say you love God and be evil or rude to people. So it's really just the commandment of love your neighbor, don't cause harm to anybody. And other than that, everyone should have the free will to do whatever they want.

[00:50:53] And so when you have a Congress that's passing 30,000 laws a year, you see it's so obvious what the tactic is to slowly erode the ability for us to even utilize our free will. Because all these new statutes and codes and bylaws that it's just more, more, more, more restrictions. And in one of my favorite books, the Essene Gospel of Peace, which I think you've read--

[00:51:16] Luke: No I haven't.

[00:51:17] Aaron: You haven't? Okay.

[00:51:17] Luke: But we're going to get into it.

[00:51:18] Aaron: You would love it, dude. You're going to love it. Jesus says a really profound statement. He says, "The closer to God a law is, the fewer there are. The farther a law is from God, the more there are."

[00:51:33] Luke: Ah, I love that, dude.

[00:51:34] Aaron: And I'm like, that's our Congress. How far have we fallen from God's law that we need 30,000 new laws a year? It's like, when do we just admit our Congress has been weaponized by land pirates, by mafias, by criminal enterprises? And we've got to take it back.

[00:51:50] How much longer are Americans going to just pretend with this almost Stockholm Syndrome thing of like, everything's fine. Our Congress isn't that bad. It's completely gone. We have to wipe the whole slate clean if we're going to fix this. It isn't salvageable from where it's at anymore.

[00:52:09] And nobody wants that to be true. Nobody wants to admit that. I don't know if you want to call them Marxists, communists, tyrants, whatever, tyrannical human beings with vast sums of wealth and power who have very bad intentions for the average person are in full control of most world governments and corporations at the very top of the ladder.

[00:52:30] We're not saying everybody in a government or a corporation is evil or something. Not at all. It's very much the opposite. Most of them are very good people who are just not aware of what they're involved with. But when do we admit that that's the case? It always goes back to your spiritual embodiment.

[00:52:47] It's no different than-- Luke, when do you admit to yourself that you're smoking too much cannabis or something like that? At some point you have to admit it, and you wrestle with it for a while. Like, no, I think it's fine. I'm probably not out of balance. And then you get too high one night or whatever and you're like, "Okay, I need to find some balance here."

[00:53:05] It's like, when is America going to have that wake-up call to just take responsibility for, yeah, no, it is really a problem. And if we love our children and we want to create a beautiful world for our children, that these, unfortunately, psychopaths, criminals are going to create that world for my kid? No, thank you. I'll create the world my kid lives in. When are we going to admit that and come together and do something about it? We're seeing, I think, the first steps of that right now.

[00:53:32] Luke: Yeah. I agree. I can't see making a few adjustments to correct it. I think it needs a full building 7 treatment.

[00:53:41] Aaron: Yes. Suck all the gold out of it. Collapse it. Move on.

[00:53:47] Luke: Yeah, yeah. But I think we're on our way there. You just lobbed me a great segue. I know a lot of the stuff you talk about is the Law of One, and I have that in my Audible playlist. I haven't started it yet, and it's been-- I think Kyle Kingsbury told me about it a few years ago. I know you talk about it. So people that I respect and enjoy talk about the teachings of Ra.

[00:54:12] Aaron: Chek is big on it.

[00:54:12] Luke: Oh, he is? Paul Chek? Okay. I think he's going to be out here next week sitting in your chair. When enough people that I respect talk about something, I'm going to check it out. And for some reason, I think I've started to click Play a couple of times, and it feels dense. It feels like, oh, okay. There's a lot there.

[00:54:33] I feel like I kind of have a grasp on my model of reality right now. I'm like, "Okay, this is a whole other thing." But because you're sitting here and you're knowledgeable about it, maybe break down at the book, the teachings, who is, or was Ra. What's the whole story with this Law of One situation?

[00:54:53] Aaron: Yeah. It is my favorite subject. It is a text that's probably made the most difference in my life other than the teachings of Jesus. The Law of One is a channeled text from the 1980s. It was a group of extraterrestrial researchers who were trying to figure out what this whole UFO phenomenon was about.

[00:55:12] Back in those days, late '70s, early '80s, there was a lot of UFO activity, and there's a guy named Don Elkins who was an engineer, a professor of either physics or chemistry, very intelligent person. And he was very spiritually tapped in as well, that rare combination.

[00:55:35] And he realized, hey, you know what? If we want to figure out who these beings are, why do they keep showing up in our skies and almost showing off their technology to us, but not letting us get close enough to touch it or see it, what's going on here?

[00:55:50] And he realized if we want to figure that answer out, we should probably get a lot more interested in their spirituality, in their philosophy rather than just their technology. Like, how do they do it? Is it anti-gravity propulsion? That's not actually the most interesting question we can ask.

[00:56:09] What's their spiritual philosophy? That's a pretty juicy question. And so he thought, well, if we want to find that out, we got to talk to them. And what other way is available to talk to extraterrestrials than perhaps channeling? And he rightly surmised, I think, that these beings are clearly operating on vastly superior levels of consciousness than we are currently. So it makes sense that they probably can read minds and all those things.

[00:56:37] So let's just see if we can channel some aliens. So they set up this dedicated research group of, it was 12 men initially, and that was their first mistake, was having no women in the group. One of the girlfriends of one of the guys, Carla Rueckert was her name, joined the session one day.

[00:56:54] And as it tends to be, women just tend to be way better channels than men most often. She like, "Wow, this is cool." She starts practicing it, and she's immediately the best channeler in the group. And so she joins the group and I don't know how long later, she's doing a training session with some new people in the group trying to learn channeling.

[00:57:13] So she would do a demonstration, and they've contacted a ton and some other entities that were extraterrestrials, but nothing really profound, just little contacts here and there. And so she's channeling, and this entity comes through and says, "I am Ra." And says some things. And Don was listening and was like, "This is very different. This sounds like we've got something here."

[00:57:35] And then the third person in the group, Jim McCarty, who's the only surviving member at this point, who's still alive from the three, he was walking in the front door with a bunch of groceries in his arms like, "Hey, guys. I'm back." And Don's like, "We got one, dude." He's like, "What?" He puts the groceries down. He's like, "Listen to this."

[00:57:54] And Carla's channeling this entity named Ra, and they're like, "Oh, we got to do some dedicated sessions with this entity." So they do. And it was 106 sessions over a four-year period, and they call it the Law of One or the Ra Material because they do a kind of question and answer with Ra over four years, 106 sessions.

[00:58:14] And they're basically just asking Ra about the nature of the universe. Tell us your guys's spiritual philosophy. How do you see the universe? And this is what hooked me with the Law of One, is that the Law of One has this very unique way of providing extraordinarily satisfying answers to some of the loftiest questions we ask.

[00:58:35] And these concepts that they just plug so perfectly into the reality we experience that you're like, "How could it not be this way? It's obviously this way." Like polarity. We've talked a lot about positive and negative polarity. The Law of One or Ra makes it very clear.

[00:58:49] There's just two options in the universe. There's light and dark, positive and negative. And the creator doesn't judge or bat an eye which one you choose, but you do have to choose. And maybe one of the most interesting concepts they give that's helpful to us is that they explain this earth plane we're on and how we get out of here, so to speak, how we graduate.

[00:59:12] And they say, "You're in the third density of consciousness." They say there are seven densities, which correlate to our seven energy centers. So every chakra is one of the densities in miniature, sort of. So the densities are actually the chakras of the universe, if you think about it that way.

[00:59:29] And they say you're in the third density, correlating to the third chakra. You and I know that's the ego chakra. When the third one's online, that's full ego consciousness. And so they say the goal of a human lifetime is essentially to move the nexus of consciousness out of the solar plexus and up into the heart chakra and to activate the green ray energy center, they call it, and live from that center.

[00:59:53] It's sort of like once you prove to the universe you can live from the heart, the universe says, "Ah, this one's ready to graduate to the next level." And in your next lifetime incarnation, you don't have to come back to earth. You can go to a fourth density planet.

[01:00:08] Luke: Yes.

[01:00:09] Aaron: Yeah, yeah. So this is what I teach in 4D University, is how do we graduate from third density to make sure that this is my last lifetime, at least optionally as a human. You can always choose to come back here as a wanderer to be of service and things. But if you don't want to, you don't have to.

[01:00:27] And that's what I think all of us would at least like that choice. Like, maybe I'll come back, but I'd like to have the choice not to as well. So they explain all this, and I'm reading this text in 2017 just being like, "Oh my gosh, this is the most remarkable spiritual material I've ever come across. And it just makes so much sense out of all these questions."

[01:00:47] And there was just very little content on YouTube about it. And I'm just getting most of what I'm learning from reading the book and very few helpful videos on YouTube. And I just started a channel. So I thought, why not me? I'll make some videos and maybe it'll help somebody.

[01:01:02] And I really thought, dude, I thought it was going to be way beyond most people of like, oh, this is kooky woo woo stuff. This is too much for me. And so I just made a video on the seven densities of consciousness, and it just goes nuclear on YouTube. And everyone's like, "Oh my God, this is the best thing I've ever seen. Give me more. Give me more."

[01:01:19] And I'm like, "Whoa, the world resonates the way I resonated with this." But the barrier to the Law of One is what you said. It's very, very dense. And Ra uses very scientific terminology. It's really a beautiful weaving of science and mysticism together. And I think that's why the answers given are so satisfying, because most of the answers were given about the nature of reality in basic spiritual contexts is very mystical and metaphysical and not tangible.

[01:01:49] And a Law of One is like, "No, it's a physical phenomenon. Let me explain it to you. It works through your nervous system." And will actually tell you how these spiritual phenomenons work on the physical level where you're like, "Oh, I get it. And now that I get it, I can live it." So I've been living the Law of One with all my heart, man, with so much passion for probably seven or eight years now.

[01:02:08] And every day I learned something new about it. I go deeper in my understanding of it, but it gets simpler too. It doesn't get more complex with time. It gets simpler and simpler with time. And I'm at the point now where all of these super high-level concepts we could geek out on this podcast for hours over, I used to like teaching about those things more, and I've just come back to this central message that Ra gives in the Law of One.

[01:02:33] Over and over they state this, almost to a comedic level, where Don will get really interested in like, "Yo, how do UFOs work, bro? What are you guys doing"? And they're like, "We use anti-gravity technology, but let us not forget that the purpose of the Law of One is to balance the lower three energy centers."

[01:02:48] And they'll just insert it into a question that had nothing to do with what they asked. Because they're like, "We're not here to razzle dazzle you with knowledge." Like you would expect a truly ascended being would do, they're like, "We're not here to just impress you with knowledge. We're here to deliver you the most important thing you need to know, which is heal your lower three energy centers so you can activate the fourth center and graduate to the fourth density."

[01:03:11] And that is, they say, the purpose of a human lifetime. And it begins with this choosing of polarity. They say this earth plane, third density, and this is true by the way, for all third density planets in the whole universe, anywhere there are beings in third density, they're doing the same thing we're doing in their own unique way on their planet.

[01:03:29] They're trying to choose which polarity does my soul want? Do I want to continue the next billions of years of evolution on the negative polarity or the positive polarity? And again, the universe doesn't care, but you don't get out of third density until you make the choice. And so you say, "Aaron, how do we make the choice for the positive polarity? And I say, activate the heart chakra by balancing the lower three energy centers.

[01:03:56] And Ra says, when you activate the heart center at least 51% or greater, to me, that means, can you actually live from your heart, from love, from forgiveness and kindness at least 51% of your life? That's the litmus test, apparently, that the universe is looking at to see, are you ready to graduate?

[01:04:16] And as soon as you do reach that 51% grade, your higher self goes, "All right." They're on to the fourth density in the next lifetime. So you see how it immediately puts all the power in your hand? It's like, hey, man. Choose a polarity, and then go all in, and you're out of here. That's all the earth plane is for. It simplifies it.

[01:04:33] Luke: That resonates with me 100%. I know you and I, another thing I wanted to talk about, which I feel like each one of these topics could be a six-hour podcast, which happens with the great guests. So take it as a compliment. But you and I have connected on our affinity for the work of Dr. David R. Hawkins. And we haven't talked too deeply about it, but you're I'm a Hawkins guy.

[01:04:56] And I'm like, in all of the different avenues of spiritual study throughout my past, coming up on 30 years, that's the one guy, the one model that I never seemed to outgrow and get to the point where I'm like, yeah, I got it. There were a few years where I was like into the power of now, and those ideas were like revelatory to me.

[01:05:21] It was exactly what I needed at that stage of development in my early recovery and things like that. It was just like, oh, wow. There's this thing, the mind and this thing, the ego. And I'm something apart from that? I was like, "What?"

[01:05:34] Aaron: In the now moment?

[01:05:36] Luke: Yeah. Just all of that. And I could probably read that book now and still be like, "Oh, I still don't get it." So not to say I've risen above that, but I think in my journey, I've resonated with different teachings that were appropriate for my development at that time.

[01:05:50] Aaron: And then you feel called somewhere else.

[01:05:51] Luke: Yeah, exactly. I'm really into learning about law, trust law and things like that. Now I never thought I'd get into that, but it seems to be part of the curriculum that my soul feels it needs to learn or master ideally in this life. But with Hawkins, when I found his stuff, it was just like, in a similar way, I think, because he was a psychiatrist for 50 years, so he really deeply understands psychology in a classical model, but he also had a very non-dual perspective and also had some enlightenment experiences throughout his life and so on, which I'm sure you know.

[01:06:28] But it's meaty and intellectual, but at the core of his teachings, it's deeply spiritual and based on what you just said to me. It's just like the levels of consciousness. That's what the whole game is about, is ascending the levels of consciousness. And when you get to around 540 of unconditional love, you're pretty much golden. And to me, that correlates with what you just described of when you're learning how to live 51% predominantly from that place.

[01:06:59] But the interesting thing about Hawkins for me is I'll go on a stint where I'm just devouring his books and lectures and things like that, and then I'll take a break for a year or a year or two and feel like, okay, I kind of get it. And then I'll come back to it and be like, "Oh shit, I missed--"

[01:07:20] Aaron: It's like I've never read this book.

[01:07:21] Luke: Yeah, exactly. Talking about like reading dense material, I probably got Power v. Force first and then just got all his books. And I remember it was Reality versus Subjectivity. I tried to read that book for probably three years. I could take a couple of sentences at a time, and it just melt my brain.

[01:07:43] It was just so hard to understand. And now I can go back to that book few years later and I'm like, "Oh yeah, I get this." I'm able to actually make it practical and applicable and go do it in my life. Whereas before I couldn't even understand it. But overall, if I could just encapsulate Hawkins as I understand his teachings is, and where I'm going with this is I want to see how this parallels with the Law of One or not.

[01:08:19] It seems like there is the integration of the non-dual that we're seeing that there really is only one thing, call it consciousness, call it God. And an acknowledgement of that and an understanding of that, but also an acceptance of that that one thing chose to differentiate into duality. And guess what? We're in it because we're in a body. Don't fight it.

[01:08:42] Aaron: Don't reject it.

[01:08:43] Luke: Yeah, exactly. So it's like I'm enjoying just being a person and having instincts, needs, a chattering mind, and the ego.

[01:08:50] Aaron: What's more non-dual than that?

[01:08:52] Luke: Yeah. The ego rears up. I find more peace in just accepting my place in a dualistic world. And how I find the peace is knowing that there's an ultimate reality, a higher reality to it, where there is not a this and a that. That it's all just a one thing. But I've just accepted that God put me in a body to express itself as a single point of consciousness, and to deny that would drive myself crazy.

[01:09:18] Aaron: Yeah. And would be very dualistic to deny that.

[01:09:20] Luke: Yeah, exactly.

[01:09:22] Aaron: To deny duality is duality.

[01:09:25] Luke: Yeah. I'll give you a real-life example right now. Alyson brought, what's now our cat, Jellybean into the relationship. I had a dog. She had a cat. And her cat's now 18 years old, and she's out in the backyard with it. The cat is in the process of going on cosmic vacation any day now. And we're probably going to bring someone over and assist with that because his quality of life is just greatly diminished.

[01:09:52] And so right now in this household, we're in a portal of watching duality play out. There's life and then there's going to be death within the next few days. And so I can play with that, appreciate that, work within that, and do my best to support her and support the cat, but what gives me the ability to do that with some equanimity is knowing that death is a fallacy and that that cat can't die.

[01:10:21] It's just the energy or the love that's animating that little cat body is just going to dissipate and go back into consciousness or go wherever it goes. I don't really know where it goes. But if I was living only in the duality of life and death, cat's alive, cat's dead, there would be suffering.

[01:10:40] Luke: So the way I reconcile that is through a zoomed-out perspective that there's only one thing, and it's just all there is, is life and all there is is love. So I feel like I'm getting pretty astute at balancing that within my direct everyday--

[01:10:57] Aaron: Takes a lot practice, doesn't it?

[01:10:57] Luke: Everyday experience. And I'm feeling feelings about the cat, especially I'm feeling her feelings. And so I don't want to deny those and stuff those. I want to feel that. But at the same time, I don't want to fall into the illusion that death is real.

[01:11:15] Aaron: Mm-hmm. It's beautiful, man.

[01:11:18] Luke: I just said all kinds of shit that has nothing to do with the question, probably.

[01:11:23] Aaron: No, you're touching on some good stuff here.

[01:11:25] Luke: So take that diet drive right there, that 10 minutes. But based on the levels of consciousness, Hawkins's work that is if the soul has a purpose here to be in a body, it seems to be the elevation of consciousness, to move back into that place of non-duality, and to accept that there is a duality that you're working with to get there. Otherwise we wouldn't need an earth.

[01:11:49] Aaron: Yes.

[01:11:50] Luke: So in the Law of One, if our goal, if we so choose, you said you make a choice in your polarity is, is to live from the heart, to be in a place of unconditional love, does that correlate with, say the level of consciousness of 540, where you love reality as a whole in its entirety, all of existence without conditions?

[01:12:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm. I've actually used the Hawkins scale to map onto the Law of One densities in multiple ways.

[01:12:21] Luke: Oh, you have?

[01:12:21] Aaron: Oh, yeah.

[01:12:22] Luke: Cool, cool. Okay, great.

[01:12:23] Aaron: They're perfect compliments to each other. And I use a different system now that I've developed called the SQ chart of the chakras and giving them an arbitrary point value like an IQ test, but for SQ. But the consciousness model from Hawkins is really valuable in the way he has the color coordination of all the levels and you see what each chakra also represents.

[01:12:48] Red, it's like apathy, fear and stuff. Anger, orange. What is yellow? Yellow is where the dividing line is of courage, but below that I think it's control or something like that. Very accurate to the energy centers. And so what I did was, I was like, "I wonder if we could use muscle testing to prove if you're going to graduate or not, to know if you're going to graduate, if you've reached the 51%." Which I guess technically speaking would be a 510 score on the Hawkins scale.

[01:13:21] So can you calibrate your own consciousness, your LOC at 510? And for sure you're graduating. And I wanted to give this to my audience as a tool. And I know you mentioned you wanted to talk about muscle testing a little bit. Because I was like you, huge student of Hawkins's work-- still am. Love Hawkins. Absolute genius. Huge gift to humanity.

[01:13:42] And I studied his work really vigorously for a number of years and got obsessed with muscle testing and wanted to find out all the best ways of how I can use this technology. What a breakthrough. But for me, I started finding holes in it that I couldn't explain.

[01:13:59] I'll say this about muscle testing. It's definitely 100%, in my experience, valid with subconscious testing and finding people's limiting beliefs. You've all probably seen the videos of that where someone on stage is making people say things until they find that statement that they believe and then it gets strong.

[01:14:19] That's the best, I think, way to use muscle testing probably. But Hawkins pioneered this new way of using muscle testing for objective things, objective data. Like, what level of consciousness was Yogananda? It was exactly this.

[01:14:35] Luke: Yeah. It's like a measurement of the Akashic records, is how I would go. Non-local, non-physical, non-linear assessment of true or not true. That's another interesting thing about his work-- hold your thought-- that I think is really important, is that he demystified falsehood essentially because when you're asking the question with muscle testing, it's not true or false. It's true or not true.

[01:15:03] Aaron: Yeah. Falsity isn't a second thing.

[01:15:06] Luke: Right. Like if you have a dark room, it's not dark. It's just absence of light. When I was talking about the cat's death, that's my experience of death and feeling of death, is that it's life or not life. There isn't actually a reality of death itself.

[01:15:26] Aaron: Yeah, it's interesting. I love what you said about the cat. We'll come back to the muscle testing in a second. I love what you said about the cat because this is the way that 3D reality that we're in, physical reality is absolutely necessary for spiritual development and is not to be rejected or dismissed with some non-dual platitude of it's all an illusion.

[01:15:48] That's not the way to use non-duality teachings. They should be used to help us engage more fully with the human experience and see the non-dual nature of it of like, "Yo, it's only God here." The tree, the plant, you, me, the breath, the skies, all God. That's the non-dual, I think the highest expression of it.

[01:16:05] And it tends to be used as the opposite as you know. But this is why we can see we need to be here in bodies having this dream world experience so we can learn and ingrain these deep truths of the nature of reality. And so with death, this is a big one. I've taught this for years that there's no death.

[01:16:24] And every great spiritual teacher says this. Jesus said this. Everybody says there's no death. And so it's like, can you just read that in a book and say, "Oh, cool. There's no death. Got it." And then your cat dies and you're like, "Oh, we're good here. No problems." No. It's not that easy.

[01:16:40] You know that there's no death as a concept, but when you go through the actual physical experience of it, you have this grieving, and you feel sadness, and you're like, "Come on. I thought I didn't believe in death." So we're dealing with deep subconscious programming that we have to retrain and stuff.

[01:16:56] And so, even though I teach and believe there's no death, the most recent example I had, or experience I had with death was a little sparrow flew into our window at our house. And this happens a lot because we have big windows in front of our living room, and they think it's an open space. Bam, they crash into the window. We've buried four birds, and two of them have--

[01:17:21] Luke: We had to get rid of our bird feeder for that reason, because we were creating a bird holocaust. There's big glass down there. Just [Inaudible], and I was like, "Yeah, can't bring the birds to the yard anymore. We took it down.

[01:17:30] Aaron: Yeah, it's heartbreaking. It's like, I don't want to keep killing these beautiful little creatures. But two of them have survived, and one was a hummingbird. And on this one day I went out and there's this little tiny sparrow, a baby sparrow. It was flopping around on the ground with its wings, but I think its legs were broken.

[01:17:48] And so I run over and scoop it up, and it's thinking that I'm about to eat it. It's freaking out, and I'm just trying to hold it until it calms down. And I go on to have this beautiful experience with this dying baby sparrow, and I'm holding it. And I believe in the power of God and the healing power of love.

[01:18:05] And I'm trying to channel love and healing energy into this bird. We had to go to the farmer's market-- it's Saturday-- to get our groceries for the week, and I'm like, "What do I do with this broken bird that's trying to survive?" So I thought, I'll put it in the sunlight in the grass in a soft spot, and I'll come back from the market and check on it.

[01:18:23] So I probably held the bird for an hour or so in my grass. I was petting it with my thumb like this, and it slowly got used to me and realized, oh, this being is not going to kill me. It's actually trying to help me. And it relaxed its wings and settled into my hands. And as I was petting it, it slowly started to close its eyes and enjoy the petting.

[01:18:42] And so I'm connecting with this beautiful little bird. I come back, and it's dead. And immediately sadness, heartache, ah, this precious little bird I wanted so bad for it to be healed, and I just snapped into this awareness of like, this is my opportunity to integrate what I believe. And I'm by no means recommending to gaslight yourself or not feel what you're feeling. Just the opposite.

[01:19:12] I welcome the sadness as a beautiful part of life. And it's beautiful to grieve over the death of loved ones and stuff. There's nothing wrong about this. And then after that, I just went, "Can I see that this creature has not died?" And I just held this baby bird and was looking at the body of the bird.

[01:19:28] And just a few hours ago, the consciousness was in it, and I was relating to it and having this beautiful connection to it, and I'm like, can I feel that that consciousness is still alive and existing in reality? And that this body was just a shell it was wearing. I just sat there trying to do that and slowly connecting with, it's not dead. There's no death. It's just moving on to its next life cycle, and it's eternal, like me.

[01:19:52] And the sadness slowly went away, and there was a joy and a beauty, and it took some time of meditating on that. And I realized like, because I was asking God, why didn't you heal the bird, man? I prayed. I sent love. This usually works when I do this.

[01:20:05] And I just saw it, like you needed to have that experience to integrate what you know into a living reality for you so that you can have your cat of 18 years transition out of this body and literally not experience its death. And perhaps even get to the point where there is no sadness.

[01:20:26] I don't think if my dog died today that I would have no sadness. I know I would. But my goal is to get to the point where I don't experience death at all. I don't see death at all. I don't see these illusions that Hawkins would write about because we know they're illusions. But illusions are powerful in the 3D realm, and they're supposed to be powerful because they're supposed to challenge our mind, our consciousness to go beyond them.

[01:20:50] So yeah, to your point, it's all so blisteringly perfect. I can't imagine a more perfect universe than the one we live in because it's so challenging, and it's so nuanced and complex and yet also so simple at the same time. Any way you slice it, you can't improve upon this reality. And so to have that dismissing of the human experience, I'm not a body, I'm not the mind, I'm just a consciousness, there's truth to that, but it so easily becomes a huge imbalance if you're not careful.

[01:21:26] Luke: Thank you for that too. For a minute I thought you were going to say, and then the bird came back to life.

[01:21:31] Aaron: Came to life. I've done that with many bugs.

[01:21:33] Luke: All right, we're going to do more podcasts, right away. We got to talk about this. One of the things in Hawkins’s work that's been so liberating for me is the way that he describes-- it's like my challenges with reconciling the existence of evil in the world.

[01:21:52] It's like the age-old question, if there's a God, then why do we have famine, war, rapists, and all this horrible stuff? And the way that he would frame the world as being absolutely perfect the way it is with all of that here, it's perfect if the purpose of earth is the evolution of our spirit, the evolution of consciousness.

[01:22:15] And to your point, we need the duality to play with, as you just described so beautifully, in order to get to the understanding or rather to embody or integrate the understanding of non-duality. We need the duality to get there. It's the path. It's the conduit for us to get to the ultimate objective truth.

[01:22:37] We need attachment to form. We need to suffer from the loss of that and identify that we have an attachment in order to be rid of it. It's like, if there's no attachment to form, well, there has to be form for us to become attached to the form. And then for us to learn how to outgrow our attachments to form, we need to play within that realm and lose the bird, lose the cat, lose loved ones, go to the hospital, pay taxes, and all the shitty things.

[01:23:02] Aaron: The whole human experience.

[01:23:03] Luke: Yeah, exactly. To observe war, participate in war. To me, it's very comforting to adopt that worldview. I don't feel like a victim of this incarnation when I understand like, yeah, it's going to hurt at times, and it sucks. And without that, there's no playing field. There's no curriculum.

[01:23:25] And without a curriculum, there's no meaning and there's no purpose. Then it's like suicide starts to sound like a great idea when times get tough. And I've experienced that years ago, a lot of suffering because I had no understanding of any of this.

[01:23:43] Aaron: Suffering is not understanding. That's really what it is. And Muji said something great about this. He grew up in Jamaica, born and raised in Jamaica. He said, "Westerners and people would travel from Europe, America, come to Jamaica to vacation, and they would always say, "Oh my gosh. You guys know you live in paradise?" Paradise, you paradise.

[01:24:03] And he and his Jamaican friends were like, "Cool, man. Whatever you say." And he said, "When I was in my 20s, I went to Portugal for eight years, lived there. And then when I came back to Jamaica after eight years off, I step off the plane, and I'm like, this is paradise." But I was always there. I grew up there.

[01:24:22] I never once had that reaction. That's the hero's journey. The full circle of seeing that you're living inside of divine perfection is not easy because it's so incredibly intelligent and complex. It takes layers and layers of experiences and things to open up your mind and awareness to take in the magnitude of reality.

[01:24:45] And when you see it, you can't unsee it. And it fills you with bliss and peace, and nothing in life rocks you anymore when you realize, there's just one being here. I'm a part of it. It's all one. It's connected. It's good at its nature, and it has good intentions for me. And you can really learn to live from that place. But not until you sit with death. Not until you forgive your enemies. Not until you heal from heartache.

[01:25:07] You know what I mean? There's no other way you get those gifts than by going through the maelstrom of third density. And A Course in Miracles also says something interesting on this. And apparently it's Jesus being channeled in A Course in Miracles. So Jesus, in ACIM, says, "God did not create the world that you see."

[01:25:29] And a lot of ACIM students and even teachers have taken that verse and others as license for the extreme non-duality bypassing stuff of like, ignore the world. The Course says God didn't make this world. No, it says God didn't make the world that you see right now, meaning the projections, the judgments, the negativity, the evil.

[01:25:51] And the Course stresses there is no evil. There's no such thing as evil because there is no second power to God. There's only one power. There's only one being. And if you think you see something other than it, you are under an illusion, and you need healing. That's the Course in Miracles.

[01:26:06] Luke: That's a tough one to swallow for many of us.

[01:26:08] Aaron: Actually, it says you are insane and require healing.

[01:26:11] Luke: Yeah. Oh, man. I love those teachings. I had Marianne Williamson here a few weeks ago. I think it came out last week, and I was so excited to talk to her because she's one of the foremost experts on that teaching. But on its face, many of the teachings in A Course in Miracle will really rack your brain. You know what I mean? Things like that. You can see why people really hit up against some of those, because they're so confronting.

[01:26:38] Let's talk about a couple of topics that intersect. One would be, you talked about healing your heart, what we could just blanket as shadow work of really going in and doing that deep work on the core wounds, moving past that. I think many people often get stuck in a cycle of just like shadow work, shadow work, shadow work and maybe never move out of it because there's always deeper levels to the onion if you've experienced trauma and things like that.

[01:27:12] And then there's the other side of polarity, which is the spiritual bypassing, which is love and light. Everything's fine. It's all non-dual. But there's this other, I don't know--

[01:27:23] Aaron: The middle way.

[01:27:24] Luke: There's the middle way, but there's also another thing I've observed in the spiritual bypassing realm, which is something, I don't know, I would best describe it as new age bypassing. It's not even like it's all love and light. It's like UFOs, channeling, Atlantean shit.

[01:27:43] There's the Gaia world in its most extreme, and I see a lot of people getting lost in that. I guess it's maybe the extremist version of spiritual bypassing where it gets into fantasy. It's like the world of fantasy, how kids get caught up in fantasy of their invisible friends and all of that and lose touch with like, hey, it's time to brush your teeth.

[01:28:12] Aaron: Right.

[01:28:13] Luke: So what's your perspective on shadow work, spiritual bypassing, the extremity of that, where that can go in terms of us getting diverted from the path that's actually going to help us?

[01:28:26] Aaron: It's so easy to get drawn into those subjects because a lot of them are super interesting, Atlantis and Anunnaki. And I get asked so many questions like, "What are your opinions on the Anunnaki's first or second visitation to earth 500,000 years ago? I need to know what you believe, Aaron." And I laugh because I'm like, "You really care what I think about that?"

[01:28:45] And also being so principled to the Law of One teachings, it's like, "Hey, man. You only have a few years to be here to heal your chakras and open your heart and get out of this realm. So you might want to stop paying so much attention to what happened with the Anunnaki a million years ago and balance your energy centers, bro." Do what's important. Focus on what matters.

[01:29:05] And that's not to say you can't give time in your life to those subjects, if they're fun and stuff. But if it becomes the central focus of your spirituality, you're just always talking about these things, maybe you're missing the bill a little bit. Maybe there's something more central to spirituality that you can focus on.

[01:29:22] And the Law of One says something really interesting about this as well, talking about the contrast we just mentioned of why we need to come into bodies and learning things so we can heal and evolve. They ask Ra, "What was it like in the universe before the negative polarity, or was there a time in the universe where there was no negative polarity, and what was that like?"

[01:29:45] And Ra says, "Oh yes, there was a long history of the universe, and maybe iterations of universes before this one, where there was no negative polarity." And they said essentially it was like children in school who are not rewarded for doing their homework or they're not rewarded for getting a good grade, and they're not punished for not doing their homework or failing their tests.

[01:30:07] There's no rewards or punishments. And they said, "So you get this phenomenon where people are stuck in a perpetual spiritual childhood because they don't have any impetus to really work on themselves. And they had full waking memory of like, hey, I'm a soul, eternal soul, incarnated into a body. All is one. God is love. We're good here. No need to evolve".

[01:30:28] And the term they use is called the logos, whether it's a major galaxy, a planet, a star, doesn't matter. Anything with intelligence on those higher levels, they call a logos, which is a portion of the creator's intelligence that creates the rule set for that, whether it's a solar system or whatever, the Zodiac archetypes. Everything is like an experiment, they say, that the creator is running.

[01:30:53] And from the space time side of the equation, the creator literally doesn't know what the results will be until it runs an experiment, a planet, a star, a galaxy, or a person. Everything is like an experiment the creator is running. From the time space side, God knows everything eternally and all that.

[01:31:12] But they stress the importance of, like, this is the way it works in the universe. The sun, our sun, is a logos, a divine intelligence that created our planet and all the other planets we see, and it is experimenting. It's running experiments. They say one of them on our planet specifically was the opposable thumb.

[01:31:31] Our logos was adding that wrinkle to our species of like, what happens if I give them these big opposable thumbs so they can grab things from an early stage of their evolution? Let's see what happens. And they said what happened was weapon making and crafting of tools to fight each other with.

[01:31:48] So it created this tribalism and barbarism very early in human history. So that was the result of the experiment. So the universe is running these experiments. And so one of the logos, meaning maybe a star, I don't know, had this idea at some point in our universe. They said, "Okay, so these beings are staying stuck in third density for billions of years, not advancing to the fourth. Third density should be much shorter than that. How do we solve this problem?"

[01:32:15] And one of the logos said, "What if we block the memory of all incarnating souls onto the planet so they don't remember who they are, they don't remember that the creator is love, they don't remember that all is one? What happens? And they said the result of the experiment was the development of the negative polarity.

[01:32:35] It split the positive in halves, essentially, and made an opposite to the positive. Because, as you can imagine, without memory of what life is, who am I, where am I, it creates this fog of confusion for the soul, where the possibility of fear actually is created. Maybe I'm not safe here, things like that.

[01:32:53] And again, the average person would say, "Oh, that's such a bad thing. We should have never created the negative polarity." But what's funny is Ra says, on the logos, all the stars in the universe and the galaxies, were like jumping for joy at the success of this massive experiment.

[01:33:09] That was a huge success. They were like, "Yes, we did it. We solved the problem. The negative polarity was the answer." And they said what it did was it shortened the time on third density from billions of years to 75,000. So now third density is the snap of a finger because, in order for it to be a fair choice, third density, this realm, has to contain an equal amount of positive and negative polarity in it so that every soul has a chance to taste both sides over and over and over and make a very authentic choice.

[01:33:30] Do I choose the light, or do I choose the darkness? And you have to choose it all the way. That's the thing. You can't be like, "I'll choose 90% light. I'll keep 10% dark. The universe is spitting you back to earth again, next reincarnation. You didn't choose yet. So that's what happened in the universe before contrast existed, was souls were being stuck in third density forever, not progressing.

[01:34:06] And as soon as the veil of forgetting was created, it created the negative polarity. And now they say the universe functions with this perfect balance and all the densities have the perfect timeframes. The creator figured it out. Goes to show you, you can't judge anything, but especially not the negative, because it is absolutely playing an important role on our planet in our evolution.

[01:34:32] But to your original question, it also is the source of all spiritual bypassing and all these things. And they are great teachers because they create painful lessons. When your spiritual ego hijacks you, when you bypass, when you don't heal, there's some severe consequences to that.

[01:34:50] So my roundabout answer to your question is that, here's the way I like to break it down. To understand healing and how to have a complete healing process, because you're very right, people can become sort of perpetual shadow workers who are always healing the shadow. Next ayahuasca ceremony, next ayahuasca ceremony.

[01:35:10] And you're like, "When are you going to be done healing the shadow?" You should come to an end point at some point. And the problem is that to me, we call shadow work, I would classify that as feminine healing. And that shadow work is about contacting the feelings you've been avoiding and letting the feelings be felt and surrendering to your feelings. Very feminine-oriented.

[01:35:33] But that's only half of the equation because we need the masculine as well. And the masculine healing is the non-duality, the wisdom, the mind training. And so the analogy I give to help people understand why you got to have a perfect balance of both-- and by the way, perfect balance of love and wisdom is how you get to the sixth density, how you graduate to the sixth.

[01:35:55] So if you're in fifth density, their version of graduation, they've already opened the heart. They've opened the throat. They're super advanced. They have to reach perfect balance of love and wisdom before they can go to the sixth. So there's always a graduation point at every density. But I digress.

[01:36:12] The analogy is this: you're in a house like this one, and it's flooded with water from a hurricane-- not a hurricane. You left your faucets on. All the faucets in the house are running, and you flooded your house. This is a representation of somebody who's full of trauma, that they haven't healed yet. So this person clearly needs to do a lot of shadow work to move all this negative energy out.

[01:36:35] So feminine healing, or shadow work, is like opening all the windows and doors in your house to let the water pour out of the house. Let's say you do that and you're like, "All right, Aaron. I did it. I let all the water flood out." I would say, "Great job. Did you turn the faucets off?" You're like, "Oh no, I didn't think that was a problem. They're still running."

[01:36:56] I'm like, "Bro, go back to your house. Your house is going to be flooded again when you get back." Sure enough, you drive back home. Your house is 25% flooded already. You're like, "Shit." You got to open the doors again and let the water out. So how many times do you have to do that to realize, oh, I need to also shut off the faucets? And the shutting off the faucets is all the leaky mental energy we don't have command over because we're not aware of the ego yet in certain ways.

[01:37:19] Ego is hijacking us, and our energy is leaking out everywhere. How do we shut off the faucet of ego? It's through wisdom and non-duality and understanding the nature of reality. But then let's flip it. What if you just do that? You just turned off your faucets, but you didn't open any windows and doors.

[01:37:37] Hey, you solved one problem. You stopped the accumulation of the water, but dude, you've got a flooded house still. And I've met so many people who are passionate non-duality students. I've been to non-duality talks and conferences where there's a lot of these people where you can just feel it in their energy.

[01:37:58] It's very sad in a way where they are so inundated with non-duality teachings that they have no connection to their feeling world. Because when you try to even ask them questions about, "You said you were divorced. How have you healed from that?" Like, oh, there's no divorcee. No one's been divorced. Nothing ever happened. No one is here to be divorced. Have you seen this phenomenon?

[01:38:24] Luke: I get it. Yeah, yeah.

[01:38:25] Aaron: I think we might have talked about this once, but I even saw a video once of a non-duality teacher, classic sitting on a stool in front of a group of people, and they're asking questions, passing the mic around, and this one lady, poor lady, mic is shaking in her hand.

[01:38:42] She's carrying a lot of intense emotion. And he had given a teaching about nobody really exists and it's all consciousness. So she goes, "I want to understand this teaching because I know it can help me. But my 12-year-old son died six months ago. How do I use this teaching to help me heal from the heartache?"

[01:39:08] And he non-dual gaslights her basically. He's like, nobody died. There's nobody who can die. There's nobody even here to suffer. And she's just like, "There's no one here to suffer. Okay." And you can see the gears moving of like, but I am suffering right now. What do you mean there's nobody here suffering?

[01:39:28] And she just realizes I have to accept what the teacher says, and she sits down. And I watched the video like, that was a tough one to watch. Because what he should have said is, "Sweetheart, come here. Let's feel this together."

[01:39:42] And again, what's more non-dual than that? What's more non-dual than accepting what's arising in this moment as perfectly valid? Because there's no separation. It's weird to me how the extreme Neo-Advaita non-duality has gotten to this territory where they're super dualistic all over again. You know what I mean? It's this weird thing.

[01:40:03] Luke: Yeah. I think, going back to The Course in Miracles and some of those very confronting ideas, and even-- someone shared with me a great quote from Ramana Maharshi. They asked him, "How do you deal with other people?" And he said, without skipping a beat, "There are no other people."

[01:40:24] I think mystics, saints, sages, these beings that have incarnated here already awakened or become awakened that are the vast minority of human beings that choose to stay here in a body and have that level of understanding. I think we look to that and there's a part of us that knows that that high level of non-duality is the ultimate reality.

[01:40:50] Aaron: The final shore.

[01:40:51] Luke: Yeah. And so that teacher on stage, what he said to me is true but also lacks compassion at the same time.

[01:40:59] Luke: So I think, in myself at least, I could say, there's a part of me that's like, "Ah, that's true." Way up there, there are no other people. I like that. That feels true. That hits home. Yet I still have to acknowledge that if I'm at Whole Foods and somebody bumps into me and I get pissed off that like, well, now there is another person.

[01:41:20] Aaron: Mm-hmm . Yeah, I've just invented them.

[01:41:22] Luke: Yeah. Or someone that I love, to whom I'm attached dies or is sick. It's like I can't deny that by skipping to that highest level of understanding, but I can use that highest level of understanding to work with here to reconcile the things that need to be felt in my very dual body as a human being. It seems what you're describing is is finding a balance of those two where we're not denying the extremity of either end of it. Is that your perspective?

[01:42:02] Aaron: Absolutely. How could it be true that we incarnated here into these bodies just to dismiss everything as an illusion?

[01:42:09] Luke: Right.

[01:42:09] Aaron: That can't the reason.

[01:42:10] Luke: Because then why would we have to come here? We would just be off in oneness as part of the fabric of consciousness and not individuated and definitely not in a body.

[01:42:20] Aaron: Because surely also our souls before incarnating know that the earth world dream world is an illusion. So then why do they need to incarnate to prove to themselves it's an illusion if we already knew that? There must be a deeper purpose. And this is where the extreme Neo-Advaita teachings, I think, do people a great disservice in many ways because they not only facilitate a enormous amount of spiritual bypassing.

[01:42:44] I had a great conversation with Teal Swan about this a few months ago, and she was saying the same thing that she's seen this over and over again of this self-gaslighting with non-duality. And I think to me it also represents the teachers who are teaching these things at least in the way that they teach them.

[01:43:01] Rupert Spira is a great example. He's a classic non-duality, strict Advaita teacher, but he's extremely balanced. He does a great job at keeping the feminine involved in it. And whenever he does teach the higher concepts of like there's no person and no one to suffer, he will also give the added context of like but if you do suffer, accept that, and that's okay. And I don't hear a lot of these famous in the Neo Advaita world teachers doing that very much.

[01:43:32] It's usually just, let's go to the most extreme concept and just hammer it all day at these conferences and drill it into your brain until you leave in this frontal lobotomy state where you're like, "There's no one here. There's no one thinking. There's no thought." And it's like, now I'm healed. Or now I accomplished the purpose of my lifetime.

[01:43:51] It's a dissociation from reality. And that's because the overwhelming majority of people who are going to a non-duality conference are nowhere near ready for that teaching yet. There's so many intermediate teachings they need, preliminary teachings they need to work them up to the point where they can actually accept and integrate that teaching in a balanced way.

[01:44:16] And I've seen this with my students, man. I've had a number of my students following my work on the Law of One and working on opening their heart chakra, and then they'll fall into non-duality niche somewhere on YouTube or something and start listening to one teacher.

[01:44:31] And then they come back to me and they're like, "Aaron, I've realized that all your teachings are terrible. You're teaching nothing but duality. You're keeping people trapped in the body because you teach them they have to unlock the heart chakra. We're not the body. And everything you teach now to me is terrible, Aaron."

[01:44:45] And I'm like, "I get it. I understand why you think that. But let me explain from my perspective why I think it is important to teach people how to be in their body and open their heart. Because people need to grow in baby steps." And so, very similar to law of attraction teachings-- a lot of people will poo poo on law of attraction, especially non duality. They're like, "Oh, law of attraction teachers, they're so dualistic. Who's the person who's creating their reality?" You've heard this talk.

[01:42:14] Luke: Yeah.

[01:45:15] Aaron: And it's like, I get it. But that'd be like going to a third-grade classroom and being like, "Look at all these third graders learning their ABCs." Like, yes, that's part of it. They have to learn the ABCs. So if somebody is really interested in law of attraction, who am I to be like, "Hey. Come on. Get away from all this duality stuff. Let me tell you the real teachings, non-duality, nobody exists." But that's not what they're interested in. They're interested in law of attraction because that's where they are.

[01:45:43] That's what resonates for them. So they should be studying law of attraction, and they're not ready for non duality yet, and that's perfect. And let's actually help them learn about law of attraction. Let's meet people where they are. And at least at this stage on our planet, I don't think the overwhelming majority of people in their whole lives will ever really need to study non-duality that much.

[01:46:03] I think the basics is all most people need. Beyond that, what we got to drill for the vast majority of spiritual seekers in the world is forgiveness, open the heart, learn to live from love, feel connected to God at all times. Those are the things that hit the home runs in a human lifetime and get you out of here. You could easily get stuck in a non-dual reincarnation cycle. You know what I mean? If you just always come back and be like, "This is all fake. None of it's real."

[01:46:31] Luke: That's a very valid perspective. It reminds me of what I was saying earlier of meeting different teachings at different levels of understanding. And some of them now I look back on and they seem elementary, but at the time they were revelatory.

[01:46:48] And I'm sure some of the things that I think are revelatory now hopefully someday will seem elementary. But if I would have skipped a lot of those steps along the way, and I'm sure I did unknowingly, I would be in a much worse place than I am now. Because I can see my initial spiritual path was based on the 12 steps, which are so grounded.

[01:47:11] Aaron: Very ACIM, by the way.

[01:47:13] Luke: Yeah, totally. So grounded, down to earth, simple.

[01:47:17] Aaron: They work.

[01:47:17] Luke: Yeah. And there's not a lot to figure out. It's not intellectual. You could just kind of say it's pretty close to the 10 commandments.

[01:47:25] Aaron: Yeah, yeah.

[01:47:26] Luke: It's just like, here's 12, 15 or so broad laws. And if you follow those, your life gets better. And if your life gets better, you don't feel like shit, and therefore you don't drink yourself into the grave.

[01:47:41] Aaron: Yes.

[01:47:42] Luke: But that was my foundation. And so, as I started moving up and exploring outside of that, I think that's always been my tether, is like, does it align with those basic fundamental truths? And a lot of them are traced to the Bible and elsewhere. And so I think that's been a protective mechanism for me to not get too lost in the non dual stuff as much as that really resonates.

[01:48:07] But it brings me to a memory, and it's many years ago, when I was just starting to really get a better understanding that there's only one thing, and you are it. Just consciousness is all there is. When I got into Vedic meditation and things like that years ago.

[01:48:22] And so I was just starting to have the direct experience that there's a me here, and maybe during a good meditation, there's a me that's the observer of the phenomenon of thought or the phenomenon of sensations in the body. And I started to get this gap of separation that was so crucial to know, like, "Oh, wow. If there's something to be observed, then that means there's someone who's doing the observing."

[01:48:50] That's very liberating to know that there's a higher consciousness or intelligence that I am that's able to have some witness perspective over things going on in my external life. And I still use that all the time. And the whole time we've been sitting here, there's someone who's watching Luke do his little Luke thing and Aaron do his Aaron thing.

[01:49:12] So I was talking to an advanced non-dual student who was, in that case, teaching me, and I said, "Wow, this is incredible." I'm really able to be in that witness perspective more of the time. And he said, "You haven't really made it until the observed and the observer become one."

[01:49:32] It's like, yeah, true, but it deflating. But I go, "Well, I don't know. If you get to that point then, what's the purpose of being in a body anymore?" It's like, I don't know. Maybe that is the goal. But to skip from where I am now of just being excited that I actually have an awareness that there's the observed and the observer and still a duality, but man, that's a hell of a lot better than living from where I used to live, which was, I am my thoughts. I am my feelings.

[01:50:00] They control me like an automaton, and I have no clue that I'm being programmed by this shit, and it's causing me all kinds of problems. So it seems there's ascension levels of understanding that are useful to where you are at that given moment.

[01:50:18] Aaron: Mm-hmm. Here's a good analogy. Do you ever watch Kill Tony?

[01:50:22] Luke: Just clips here and there on social. I've never watched a whole show.

[01:50:26] Aaron: So you know the premise of the show, Tony Hinchcliffe will do a bucket poll, have a comedian come up on stage. You can even go to a comedy club and you'll see comedians get on stage where, they totally bomb and you're like, "Ah, poor guy," or girl. They got on stage a bit too early. They weren't ready for that. They need more reps.

[01:50:46] This is what ego does with everything, is it tries to be in a rush to be somewhere because it's not okay with here. So it wants to be at the most advanced stage and stuff. So when we give people a super high advanced metaphysical teaching like non-duality, when they're not ready for it, it will have the same effect of a comedian bombing on stage. Meaning it will lead that person to bomb in their real life.

[01:51:10] It'll cause some huge imbalance in people, the gaslighting, the bypassing, the mechanisms it creates. And so if somebody is suffering, which the overwhelming majority of people who get really attracted to Neo-Advaita are people that are deeply suffering, they've lost a loved one, they're looking for some quick out.

[01:51:31] And so I think, again, a non- duality teacher should be really aware of that and know, majority of these people coming here are desperately suffering, desperately seeking an answer. So let me be careful about how I give them that answer. Because there is no free handout of like, "Oh, don't worry. I can solve all your problems. Just realize you don't exist."

[01:51:47] So you're trying to get somebody to go from the third chakra, ego consciousness. If they're suffering, they're still an ego. And you're trying to get them to skip over the heart and jump to the throat and even third eye where nonduality lives. This is the wisdom chakra. This is the non-duality chakra.

[01:52:05] And so you're teaching them concepts that require really open, activated throat and third eyes, and they're still distorted and bundled up down here. And you've skipped over the heart. So, of course, you could wind up in a kind of non-dual state and then feel a sense of almost apathy for life or a disassociation from life.

[01:52:26] They're like, "Nothing exists. Observer and observed one, what's the point of it all? And that's because that's a sign that you had skipped the heart. If somebody arrived at that state, that would only mean they skipped really activating the heart. So this is what I've come back to, man, time and time again, because I've been like you, a big student of non duality.

[01:52:44] David Hawkins teaches non-duality a lot, and I still love non-duality and love studying it, but I realized I had been trying to skip the basics, the spiritual fundamentals of the heart chakra; forgiveness, unconditional love, gratitude, surrender, trust, joy, just being a happy person, showing what God is through just being happy around people.

[01:53:09] That's a very advanced spiritual quality. It sounds basic, but it's not. And I realized like, oh, the real bang for your buck while you're here as a human is opening the heart. And all the heart-based practices, I call it heart based consciousness, it's fourth density consciousness, heart-based consciousness to forgive people, be patient, humble yourself.

[01:53:33] Don't look to exalt yourself anymore. Be of service to others is the biggest one. In fact, Ra calls the positive polarity the service to others polarity. And the negative is the service to self-polarity.

[01:53:46] Luke: Like Kabbalah.

[01:53:47] Aaron: Yes. The negative serves itself.

[01:53:50] Luke: I love that definition. I think one book I read on Kabbalah by Michael Berg, he describes ego as the desire to receive for the self alone.

[01:54:00] Aaron: That's it.

[01:54:00] Luke: I remember when I read that, I was like, "Oh shit, I've been doing that my whole life."

[01:54:03] Aaron: Dude, that's me.

[01:54:05] Luke: I was like, "Oh, okay. Thanks for pointing that out."

[01:54:07] Aaron: Like, ah, that one hurts, but I needed it.

[01:54:09] Luke: Yeah.

[01:54:10] Aaron: Yeah, that's it. It's the service to self-polarity, which means I serve myself at the cost of others. I take from others. I withhold from others. That's how I get happiness. The service to others polarity is yourself is served by being of service to others because law of attraction. What you give is what you get.

[01:54:28] The more love, kindness, and generosity you give out, the more you get back. So both paths serve the self, but in different ways, different approaches. So just striving to love your neighbor as yourself and to love God with all your heart to me has so much more translatable and practical spiritual benefits for people.

[01:54:51] If I could go back and tell myself anything 10 years ago, give yourself some spiritual advice, Aaron. What would I say? I would definitely say without any hesitation, Don't focus so much on trying to understand all these really lofty nonduality, oneness, unity, consciousness concepts.

[01:55:09] Those are great. They play a big role, and they're important, but if you want to grow really fast, practice forgiving everyone that bothers you. Practice being kind to the person right in front of you. And that's how you earn graduation. You could study non duality your whole life and not graduate. But you cannot serve others and forgive people your whole life and not graduate.

[01:55:33] Luke: Beautiful. You just reminded me one of the tenets of the 12-step teaching is love and service is our code.

[01:55:42] Aaron: Ooh.

[01:55:43] Luke: Yeah.

[01:55:44] Aaron: I hadn't heard that one.

[01:55:45] Luke: Yeah. Love and service is our code.

[01:55:48] Aaron: That's a code.

[01:55:49] Luke: Yeah. Some of those things, it can sound so trite and like, well, yeah, duh, but try doing it.

[01:55:55] Aaron: It's like, have you done it though? Yeah.

[01:55:58] Luke: And this is why relationships are such beautiful teachers. I'm blessed to have a wife that's super easy to get along with, and we're very compatible, but she's a human being, so she has feelings about things, and I might not always be in the perfectly suited mood to be present to those feelings.

[01:56:15] Aaron: Right.

[01:56:16] Luke: And that's one of the ways I can judge my progress, is my ability to resist defensiveness, being irritated, or to retaliate with similar feelings or whatever. It's like just how radically compassionate and loving can I be? And it's easier with her than it is someone out in the world that I don't know and have no relationship with.

[01:56:42] Luke: But I love your perspective on this because I feel so-- proud of myself isn't the right word, but I feel so grateful in my soul's willingness to play this game when I can see the temptation to act in a withholding way or judgmental way, and there's like a part of me that's like, nah, don't be vulnerable right now. Keep your guard up.

[01:57:11] Aaron: Poster up.

[01:57:12] Luke: Yeah. Or just this isn't fair.

[01:57:13] Aaron: Double down.

[01:57:15] Luke: Yeah. You need to stand up for yourself. This isn't fair.

[01:57:17] Aaron: All the stuff that's always worked, Luke.

[01:57:19] Luke: Yeah. Or it's like they're actually wrong. I'm right. And I'm going to tell my-- all that shit and just didn't see that sort of noise and just go, puff, and just surrender it and just be unconditionally, unreservedly loving. And it's like, wow, God, what joy that produces versus the sort of temporary win, the fallacious win of being right, not holding space, punishing, or judging.

[01:57:51] It's crazy how, to your points that you've made today so beautifully, the most simple spiritual teachings are the most profound and powerful. And actually, ultimately the easiest to do because it doesn't require a lot of understanding.

[01:58:08] It requires a little bit of discernment. Just have some self-awareness and know where you are on the scale. It's like, how much resentment are you sending someone's way versus actually putting yourself in their shoes and having empathy and compassion for them and their experience. Even if you have to have boundaries with them, you can do so with love. And sometimes even erecting a boundary is the most loving thing to do with someone who's in their shit.

[01:58:32] Aaron: Mm-hmm.

[01:58:33] Luke: Wow.

[01:58:34] Aaron: Yeah. I teach forgiveness regularly, and there's always that rebuttal of, "Come on, Aaron. You can't just expect me to just agree with murderers or just dismiss genocide." It's like, oh, maybe you're having a different conversation than I am.

[01:58:49] I didn't ask you to accept genocide. That's what people hear when they hear forgiveness, because most people are just unfortunately not very familiar with what an open heart really feels like. It's defenselessness. It's, I have no one to fight. I have nothing to prove. God is good. God is love.

[01:59:10] That's all I need. And I'm just here to share that with people. So like Jesus said on the cross, if somebody trespasses against me, I say, "Forgive them, father. They know not what they do." And to that, people will say, "How can you say someone who's a serial killer doesn't know what they're doing? They're hunting people. They know what they're doing."

[01:59:28] We're not talking about mental gymnastics here. We're talking about deep spiritual embodiment and awareness. And if somebody is not aware the nature of God, the presence of God, right here, right now, if they're not aware of love, how could you possibly expect them to be loving if they're not aware of love?

[01:59:47] And anybody who is harming another person is not aware of love. So you're like, "Oh, there's nothing to hold against them." They can't see truth. They're literally blind. They're infected with an illness. They're stuck in a pit. Whatever analogy you want. The A Course in Miracles says, "Sin in the sight of love is a mistake to be corrected, not an evil to be punished."

[02:00:08] And that's the attitude of forgiveness. It's just, I have too much love in my heart to push anybody out of it. Murderers, genocidal maniacs, all is welcome in this heart of love, because I know that only love can heal you. It's like having the best intentions of, if I want there to not be murderers, I have to first forgive the murderer.

[02:00:27] Because as we touched on earlier, perception is creation. If I'm like, "You dirty murderer. I wish you'd get yours." What am I doing? I'm just creating a murderer in my mind and attacking it and projecting it. It's like, dude, you're creating the problem you're seeking to solve. Don't see a murderer. See a son or a daughter of God, a being of light, who's gotten lost in the darkness, has lost their way, and you can be the light that welcomes them back.

[02:00:52] That's the attitude of forgiveness, and that makes forgiveness easy. If forgiveness feels hard, you're not doing it right. You don't have the right approach yet. It's not something you do with effort. It's a realization that sin is really blindness. Evil is really ignorance, and so you can bring clarity and light to it with love and forgiveness.

[02:01:13] If somebody can't see the light in them, I can help them see it by seeing it myself. It's like if someone's dangling off a cliff, do you want to dangle off the cliff next to them to make them feel better? Like, "Oh, we're both in this mess now. This sucks." Or do you stay above them and reach a hand down to pull them off the edge of the cliff?

[02:01:33] That's forgiveness. It's reaching your hand down to somebody who's dangling off a cliff. And anybody who's doing these kinds of crimes against other people are at the very limits of their incarnation in terms of like how far down the negative path you can go. They're absolutely dangling off a cliff.

[02:01:51] It may not look like that to the outer appearance. We like to judge people who do bad things very harshly, and I hope they get what's coming to them. Forgiveness says, "I already know they're getting what's coming to them. They're already getting what's coming to them right now." The punishment of sin is baked into sin.

[02:02:08] Living in sin sucks. When I say sin, I mean negative thinking, drug addiction. Any deviation from the law of One is what sin is. Sin is its own consequence. You don't need to put more punishment on somebody who's already suffering. The fact that they're hurting people, killing people, etc., means they're suffering.

[02:02:29] That's the mindset of forgiveness. But guess what? Nothing I just said is really an intellectual understanding. The intellect can disagree with what I just said all day and find excuses. It's a heart realization. Only an open heart really sees that. And so in that sense, only the heart has real wisdom. And you've got to do that inner work to actually turn it on and activate it.

[02:02:54] Luke: Beautiful. Man, I wish we had more time.

[02:02:57] Aaron: I know, man. This has been fun.

[02:02:59] Luke: I had this whole plan. Back in around the year 2000, I got this book called The Isaiah Effect by Gregg Braden, and it's all about the sins. And then a couple of years later, he had one about the lost mode of prayer that was about the sins and all this stuff. And I know that's like part of your lane. So I was like, "Oh man, I'm going to dig into that, Jesus, and the Bible." I just got my first Bible. I've been reading that.

[02:02:22] Aaron: Oh, wow.

[02:03:22] Luke: Yeah. I've never even touched that book. And so, yeah, I know you--

[02:03:27] Aaron: We got to get into it some time.

[02:03:28] Luke: Yeah, so we're definitely going to have to do a part two. Yeah, this is way too fun. But I do have another one in 20 minutes. Otherwise, we'd just keep going forever. For those listening, you can go to lukestorey.com/abke, A-B-K-E, lukestorey.com/abke, and we'll put everything that we just talked about that is clickable in there.

[02:03:48] Before we bounce, actually, usually I ask someone at the end for their three teachers, but I think you already mentioned a couple of yours. So next time I won't forget, and we'll get to that. But tell us about your 4D University. You've mentioned having students, and I see you on social just in the role of actually teaching people a lot of this information. So let people know how they can interact with you more.

[02:04:11] Aaron: Yeah, so this whole conversation has been a pretty good summary of what 4D University is. It's teaching all these concepts we've talked about, but most especially, it's called Fourth Density University for a reason. You come here for one purpose. Ultimately, I teach people how to open their heart chakra and live from the heart. And I do that through the Law of One teachings. Mostly it's a combo of Law of One, ACIM, a lot of Jesus teachings, and then some I Am Discourses, St. Germain teachings.

[02:04:43] Those have been my source texts for the last probably decade that I've just been immersed in and can't get away from. So I feel like, okay, I'm probably here to teach from these texts, and they've just all weaved together in such a beautiful way that it's allowed me to put together a very simple, straightforward, but very helpful curriculum for people to say, "Hey. Look, I'm definitely stuck in ego consciousness.

[02:05:15] "But I definitely want heart-based consciousness. I want to graduate. Show me how to do that. What are the teachings I need to work on? What are the practices I need?" So it is an online academy for expanding consciousness, but with our own teachings and approach to that. So you can find that on 4duniversity.com or aaronabkey.com, and you can learn more about it on our webpage and all that.

[02:05:30] Luke: Epic. Well, I'm so glad we got to hang out. We've hung out a few times, but we've never really had the opportunity to dive in a dedicated conversation like this. So I can't wait to do more. And yeah, thank you so much. I'm glad we finally made this happen. It's been awesome.

[02:05:44] Aaron: Me too, brother. Thanks for having me on, man.