[00:00:01] Luke: Tell me about the human design creator.

[00:00:04] Emma: Ra Uru Hu or Robert Alan Krakow, as he was originally known, he actually was an advertising executive of all things. And he had a burnout, went to Ibiza and spent a bit of time there. And on one of his great trips, eight days, download. So within eight days, he heard this voice. He called the voice, that basically gave him human design.

[00:00:41] And what I think is fascinating for all the naysayers, they're like, yeah, channeled information. Where's the validity of that? We've got A Course in Miracles. We've got so many other channeled information that has so much validity. The big thing for me is that human design mathematically maps together Western astrology, the chakra system, the I Ching, and the Kabbalah tree of life.

[00:01:10] And I'm like, no one can do that in eight days. No human brain can do that. So over the eight days of the voice of the download, he took in all of this information, and then he just basically wrote it down and started teaching it.

[00:01:23] Ultimately, human design, he was given that it's an experiment. It's not meant to be a dogma, although there are a lot of people out there teaching it like a dogma. It's this big experiment. And ultimately, it's for this new world that we're creating. In human design, we talk about the new paradigm, which happens in 2027.

[00:01:44] But it's around the same time as so many other spiritual scriptures talk about this big time of change. And yeah, ultimately, it was this new way of understanding ourselves at a really authentic level. I love to look at it because my background is behavioral coaching and profiling, and I've used a lot of those other profiling tools.

[00:02:10] They're all behavior. They're all personality programming. So we get to the result, the end result, through going through this process of answering questions. So we're doing it through the mind. And if you have a great facilitator and they get you more in your subconscious mind, they can be pretty accurate.

[00:02:28] But with human design, because of the way we take the information, it's an energetic blueprint. So the mind doesn't actually get involved. So it's just crazy accurate. Even if you're like me in the beginning who just didn't want a bar of it, I was like, no, no. Where's the research? But then when I started my experiment, it just blew me away because it was creating results in myself and my clients that were just incredible compared to all the tools that I've been using in the past.

[00:03:00] Luke: And what became of this man who channeled the system?

[00:03:03] Emma: Well, he built out his own school. And interestingly, from a human design perspective, his personality, Sun, which is our biggest energy, yours is the 28. And I'll talk a little bit about that as we go. But he had the 51. It was the gate of shock. So his energy was very shocking. It was very impactful.

[00:03:24] And I believe that's the only way human design would have birthed with the bang that it has. It's so new, and there's so many other modalities out there. Yet this thing is being picked up so quickly. So yeah, he really brought it to the world. He attributed all this really negative and unresourceful language to it that just irritated people, I think, in a lot of ways.

[00:03:49] So there was these two schools, like, wow, this is great. It's working. And wow, this is really irritating me. And it's working. So yeah, he built what is known as Jovian and started to teach it. But unfortunately in the, I think it's the late '90s, he ended up dying of a heart attack.

[00:04:09] So we never really got to keep growing his brand. And then we also went through this interesting time. I'd say it's about four years ago where Jovian and one of the other leading human design experts wrestled it out in court because they were like, well, this was Ra's work. We own this.

[00:04:33] And they were saying, well, actually, no. The voice was very clear that this specifically is for the children of the future. And in that court decision, they didn't let Jovian keep the rights. So ever since then, all these little offshoots of the people that initially worked with Ra have started to grow and evolve. And human design is very much something that is here for everybody.

[00:05:00] Luke: That's open source now.

[00:05:02] Emma: Yeah.

[00:05:03] Luke: Interesting. I'm trying to think back when I first learned of human design. It's probably maybe 20 years ago. And I learned of it through a guy named Randy, who was based in Sedona, who had been a friend and protege of David Hawkins, one of my favorite teachers.

[00:05:30] And I don't remember David Hawkins talking about it because I would have paid much more attention if he calibrated it at 800 or whatever on his scale of consciousness. He would just hopefully objectively calibrate different teachings and teachers and books and things like that.

[00:05:46] But I saw a video at that time, a very primitive camcorder video of this guy, Randy talking about it and showing the diagram. And I think the graphic of it more than even what he was saying caught my attention because, as you outlined it, had to do with the chakra system, and it was just laid out in a way that looked elegant in its design. And I thought, oh, there's something to this.

[00:06:11] However, I've never covered it on the podcast until this moment today because I've never felt like I found the OG, and I didn't know who even created it. That's why I asked you that question, but I'm always looking to find the creator of something. I want to go right to the source rather than five generations down of their lineage of people that are teaching their work.

[00:06:36] But you obviously seem someone who's deeply invested and highly experienced in that, so I'm so curious to learn more. I'll also preface the rest of the conversation by saying, I have categorized human design in the same bucket of as astrology, which is something that's never really spoken to me.

[00:07:01] It's not that I don't believe in it or that I'm critical of it. It's not something that draws me in. Alyson loves to pull cards. She loves her divination decks, and she created one, and she's always pulling cards, and she'll pull cards for me. And I want to spend time with her, and she enjoys it, so I do it.

[00:07:19] But we got card decks all over the house. I'm never pulling cards. It just doesn't speak to me. But human design is one where I'm like, ah, there's something there that keeps bringing me back to it. It's like I want to catch the bug. So I'm really excited to learn more about it.

[00:07:38] And to your point of some of the other personality assessments and things, I found those over the years to be very useful. Myers Briggs and the DiSC test. There's another great book called StrengthFinders 2.0. I take those tests and I'm like, that's me. Versus somebody might do an astrological reading and we find a moon in Libra, double Scorpio, this and that.

[00:08:04] It's like when you talk to a psychic and they go, is your grandmother named Mary? And you're like, no. You love football, right? No. It's like you get a lot of nos. Astrology is like that for me where I go, well, yeah, but you could say that about anyone and it would apply.

[00:08:20] Do you love swimming? Well, yeah, everyone. You know what I mean? It's so general that it's like, ah, I know that the cosmos obviously has an effect on us, and so I believe in the validity of human design, but I really want to be convinced so that I can use it more in my life, as you said, because it's more energetic than it is behavioral and based on cognition like some of those other personality assessments and stuff.

[00:08:47] So thank you for that. And yeah, let's talk a little bit about your introduction into the system and changes you started to see in your own life through your own personal relationship with the modality.

[00:09:05] Emma: Yeah, I love that question because it gives me an opportunity to respond to something that you just said. So I'm the same. I've studied astrology, I would say four times. I still don't get it. I still don't have that connection with it. Whereas human design, I actively avoided it. It kept coming to me and I would do a bit of research and go, okay, well, I don't like the language because the language was very negative in the beginning, and I'm a behavioralist, so language is everything. My language is creating my reality.

[00:09:36] So I'd put it down. And then someone else would introduce it to me and go, okay, I'll just have another look at it. And I would look at my chart again and go, well, it resonates, but where's the research? Where's the stuff to back it up? So I didn't actually, like so many people, run at human design with open arms.

[00:09:56] At that time, I didn't have a deep connection to astrology. I was still in the whole like yeah, I get that the chakras are real and they're doing a thing, but what's the research saying? I was in this place where research and science had been such a big player. Even though I have always been very spiritual, I was still really like, not really sure about it.

[00:10:23] So I actually picked it up a few times, put it down, and then I walked the Camino de Santiago, which is this 800-kilometre pilgrimage in Spain. You start in France. So you walk up and over the Pyrenees mountains and then along the top of Spain. And it's an ancient spiritual pilgrimage. And I've done it twice in my life.

[00:10:46] I just did it last year, a year ago, and then I did it in 2018. And the whole intention of this for me, because obviously you set the intention, is like-- I by that point had completely shifted my life. I'd healed my mental health from depression and panic disorder. I had left a successful but burnt-out career in advertising.

[00:11:08] I had healed a relationship. I'd had two kids. We'd moved from the country to Sydney, in this amazing place. I'd retrained. I was a master coach. I had this successful organic business that was growing, helping corporate people with things like leadership and performance, but there was still this hole inside of me.

[00:11:31] So I walked the Camino with this whole intention to fill the hole. What specifically is my purpose? And at the end of the Camino, I was like, I feel like I'm 86% there, but there's still something missing. What is this piece that's missing? And I said to the universe out loud, I'm like, okay, you need to smack me in the face with this piece. Really, I need you to be so obvious.

[00:11:56] And when I got back from the Camino, within the 48 hours of getting back from the Camino, I would say six or seven people asked me about it. And I was like, okay, this human design thing. All right, I'm going to have a look.

[00:12:09] And of course, I Googled best human design teacher or something in Australia. And really, there was one person that I know now that was really an old school. She'd been in it for 20 years. She'd trained with someone that was Ra's right-hand person. And as I looked her up, she lived one suburb away from me, and I'm like, okay, I'm seeing the E's here and what I would call the external clues or the synchronicities.

[00:12:41] And I got in touch with Kim and she's like, yeah, come over. Let's have a coffee. So I went and had a coffee with her and she just had a look at my chart and I'm like, are you kidding me? I've spent all of these years with behavioral tools, with understanding human behavior, understanding how to rewire my brain, really diving deep into manifestation, all of these things, and you do not know me and you have told me more about my authentic self than anyone else ever, and we just met in this moment.

[00:13:10] So that was the moment that I was like, okay, well, I made a commitment, universe. If you hit me over the head with it and you show me what it is, then I'll do it. So at that point, I started my human design experiment because it's all an experiment. That's one of the really important factors of human design.

[00:13:29] And the thing that Ra did was very clear on that the voice said, it's an experiment. This is not a dogma. And this isn't here to tell you who you are. It's to set you free from your programming, from your conditioning. So for me, that was felt really in alignment. So I went back to my business and was like, how am I going to ask my corporate-- we're talking very masculine CEOs, how am I going to ask them for their birth time and their birthday? Because I want to run their details through this software.

[00:14:07] So I really freaked out about it at first. And then, of course, I asked my clients and they were like, yeah, sure. Here's my information. Go for it. And I started using their design, just overlaying all the other performance tools, all the other behavioral stuff. I'd already helped them increase their performance and their success significantly.

[00:14:29] But as soon as we started to implement their design, it was like hand over fist different. It was so different. I remember one of my female leaders, we completely redesigned the way she led, led her teams. Because she was leading from a very masculine place, and her design was very much about nurturing.

[00:14:49] It was about trusting, making decisions over time. There were so many things in there that we tweaked. And she had this goal of becoming a CEO in eight years. She was senior management. She wanted to become a CEO in eight years. Three years later, here we are cheersing to her because she got her first CEO role.

[00:15:14] And she reflected back. She's like, wow. It was just a weird thing that we were trying out, and look how much success she'd received. So for me personally, it's all about results. In my life, things changed so significantly as soon as I started to implement some really specific things. And for me, I'm an emotional manifesting generator.

[00:15:40] So that in itself is a paradox. I have a lot of energy. My energy moves really fast, but I make my best decisions over time. And this emotional piece, I had spent so much of my life keeping my emotions shut down. In primary school, I literally didn't say boo to anybody. I just kept myself locked inside. I was happy in there. I was talking to, I think source, I suppose, but I'm fine.

[00:16:09] A lot of my energy is big and charismatic and all of these things, but I spent so much of my life keeping that locked down. So the biggest thing for me was the results for me and for my clients. They were undeniable. So that was the point that I was like, well, if I'm running my experiment, I'm just going to follow what I call the breadcrumbs, because I'm a manifesting generator.

[00:16:33] I'm not here to initiate. I'm here to be in response and follow the things that I have energy for that light me up. So the more I did that, the more I just couldn't believe like, wow, things just fall into place. I had this experience really early on. I already had a podcast. I can't even remember what it was called. And I was in the shower where I get so many of my downloads, and I just hear in my head, you have to change the name of your podcast to The Human Design Podcast.

[00:17:05] Meanwhile, my ego goes, are you crazy? You don't know enough. Who are you to do that? Blah, blah, blah. It's just banging on in there. And I'm just like, well, I'm following my experiment. So I can't act on it anyway. It's mental energy. I'm going to have to wait for something to respond to. And then the next day I get a phone call from one of my mentors who I had introduced human design to, and he just said, Em, you have to do this podcast.

[00:17:32] You have to make a podcast on this because there's nothing good out there right now. And of course, as soon as he said it, my gut just went, yes, let's do it. My critic is still going, what are you doing? You're mental. You know nothing. But again, I'm like, okay, well, that's the experiment.

[00:17:49] So I just kept experimenting and kept doing the things that in human design, we call it our strategy and authority. Strategy is the way the universe talks to us. Our authority is our own internal guidance system, and we're in this communication loop of the two of them.

[00:18:05] So we just kept following it. And doing that has been mind blowing. I've grown a very successful business that doesn't feel like work at all. I'm a line five, so I can remember from being, I don't know, like three, knowing that I don't know what I'm going to do on this planet, but it's going to make the world a better place.

[00:18:27] I've been so driven to have an impact. It's there in my design. Even before we hit record, so many of the things that you said are in your design. I don't want to convince anyone that they should go do their design and just follow it. I don't think that it's going to serve anyone.

[00:18:48] But what I would encourage people to do is just experiment. Does life get better when you listen to your strategy and authority, when you honor your profile? Does it get better when you understand your energy type and create life around your energy type, instead of trying to shove your energy type into the programs and old paradigms? Because ultimately, when we let ourself free from that, embody our authentic self, magic happens.

[00:19:21] Luke: Beautiful. I love it.

[00:19:22] Emma: Yeah. It's pretty cool.

[00:19:23] Luke: So many different questions arise from that, one being a memory of a couple of friends of mine, Keith and Michelle who live here in Austin, and they founded a company called Paleo f(x), that for a number of years did these big health conferences here. That's why I first came here, actually, was to speak at their events. And they had a really well-organized team, a well-oiled machine, as they say.

[00:19:53] And everything was just very smooth, and they're organizing this huge event with all these vendors and speakers. And having spoken at a number of conferences like that over the years, I always marveled at their level of organization, and they seem to just really have it together. So me, always, of course, having my own little micro team, nothing of that magnitude, still, I might have two or three people.

[00:20:17] Right now I have three people in my media team, but that time maybe I had one or two. And so I asked them, I said, man, how do you guys keep this together and keep growing and everything seems so seamless and organized? And they said, it's all based on human design. And they said they had a human design coach whose name I can't recall, but I think the coach was based here.

[00:20:37] And they said, we work with our human design coach continually that's a auxiliary member of our team. And specifically, I remember them saying, we don't hire anyone on any meaningful criteria other than their human design. Obviously, I guess they might do a background check or something of that nature, but had nothing to do with their education, their past work experience, etc.

[00:21:01] It had to do with how they fit into their org chart based on their human design. For some reason, I've talked to both of them a lot. That's the one thing I always think about when I think of them, like, yeah, they crack some code with this human design in terms of team building and building a really great, successful brand that had a lot of positive impact.

[00:21:21] And now they're off doing other things. And have since divorced, but they were a great power couple who seemed to have this harmonious, productive impact-driven business that was profitable and reciprocal for everyone involved based on my experience with them. So question there is, you have two lovely ladies here on your team. I'm assuming they're hires. They could be your friends. We didn't get into that.

[00:21:49] Emma: Yeah, I love this question already.

[00:21:51] Luke: They showed up with you. So how much does human design influence your professional relationships?

[00:21:58] Emma: Well, I would consider that I have the dream team, and I also would consider that I don't run a team. I consider that my business is actually a group of us that are all working towards the same mission. And I've grown that team purely on design.

[00:22:17] Luke: Oh yeah? You too, huh?

[00:22:18] Emma: Yeah, purely on design.

[00:22:19] Luke: So walk me through this. You need a marketing person or a social media manager, personal assistant, whatever. And I'm presuming you put the word out to your network, your friends, family, social media, whatever. Then when applicants start coming in, is human design reading or assessment part of your application process?

[00:22:43] Emma: Yeah. Great story. With my first significant epic hire, she's now sitting in the room. She's my chief operating officer. There is no way I could do the things that she does. She's epic. When I hired Taylor, she was just a support person to do a couple of hours of work. Now, when I went through the hiring process, I sent an email out to my list.

[00:23:11] I had probably three applicants that had come back and Taylor. One of them I'd worked with. She'd done my mastermind. I knew her really well. I was very attached to this other human. And I went through the process and a friend of mine who-- there's an offshoot of human design called BG5, which is effectively the business arm.

[00:23:35] And what that does is it looks at all of our charts together. In human design, we call it a penta, so it's a group of three to five. So I had this friend of mine put all our charts together. The two of us were looking at all of the charts. Now, the person that I really wanted to hire our charts did not match.

[00:23:53] This friend of mine is like, she's got a lot of individual circuitry. She's none of the tribal stuff that you have. The gates that are important to you, aren't necessarily important to her. My mind was like, but she's got all this experience, da, da, da. And this is really early on in my business.

[00:24:11] Then the other two fell away, and then there was Taylor. And we looked at our charts together and they fit perfectly. And this is crossing a little bit over into the gene keys, but her core talent, which is our design, Jupiter, matched my personality, Sun, which is my life's work.

[00:24:37] She had everything that I didn't have. I'm a personal profile. She's a transpersonal profile. So when we put our charts together, it's like, well, on paper, these two humans are going to work really well together. And the crazy thing is she's one of my best friends. She's moving to Australia.

[00:24:57] She runs my business. I trust her with my life. My kids call her Auntie T. We could not have foreseen-- -if my mind had made that decision, I wouldn't have had the same outcome. I wouldn't have found a lifelong friend, let alone someone who has grown into the COO of my business. And my entire team is the same.

[00:25:18] My PR person, Amanda, who's here with me today, one of her superpowers, and it's one that you have as well, is relationships, is this line four. So when we let Amanda do her thing and just connect through relationships, magic happens. So this entire team that I have, it has been built on their human design very specifically.

[00:25:44] So our EA that supports Taylor and I, I think we had something like 60 applicants. We had so many applicants. And the first thing we did was had a look at each chart and then got it down to about 10. Then T looked at 10 of them, and I looked at 10 of them, and then I got my three and she got her three. And then we interviewed.

[00:26:08] And so the last part of it was intuitive, but we knew by that stage that all of these charts, these human designs would fit the business and the role. And again, the person, the one interview that we got off and I went, I wish I could have just got more out of her, she was very introverted.

[00:26:29] And T was the same, but we both looked at each other and went, it's a yes. And Taylor's got a pure sacral, so I've got to sleep on it. So our internal guidance system, although the mind is like, we wanted more at the moment, our authorities were like, it's a double thumbs up over here.

[00:26:48] So we hired her. And again, we've got this person who, like the rest of our team, they're going to be around forever. These are lifelong people in our business. And they get to just show up and be authentically themselves, do what they love, because that's specifically how they fit into the business.

[00:27:08] Luke: So cool.

[00:27:08] Emma: It's so cool. It's like they're just my friends and family. It doesn't feel like a business team or anything like that. It feels like they're my mates.

[00:27:17] Luke: Well, on that note of working with your mates, as you say in your great Aussie accent, one of the things that's been a hard lesson for me in business, I've owned my own business in one way or another since about 2008, information business like this. It's a hard lesson in hiring people because I enjoyed their personality and because we were very alike.

[00:27:47] And then I would hire someone who was very much like myself because I had an easy rapport with them and felt comfortable with them, but it would create redundancies because there are things that I'm really not skilled at and some things I am. And so I'd hire someone just like me who had the same gaps in their skillset.

[00:28:09] So we had a lot of fun, but next thing you know, neither one of us know how to do techie stuff on the back end of the website, things like that, or how to work like a male chimp program. It's just like, I'm never going to learn that. Don't want to learn it. It would be torture for me to try to do something technical and detail-oriented.

[00:28:28] So I'd hire these really creative, outgoing people, and we'd have a great time. And then it would fail because they weren't able to do the job they're actually hired for. And that's when I started using the personality test when this happened a number of times. And then in my application process, there's always two or three personality tests, which also serve as an extra barrier to entry to just weed out people that are just looky loos and tire kickers that don't actually want to be part of what I'm doing.

[00:29:03] They just need a job, or it's just on a whim they see the post and, oh, this sounds fun. But they have to make it through a number of different steps. And even those personality tests, which sound even less effective than what you're doing with human design, have helped me build more effective teams like the one I have now, Jarrod being one of them, and Bailey and Megan, my other two inner circle teammates.

[00:29:32] I've hired them-- of course, you have to have some rapport and all that, but largely based on that their skill sets and their personalities are vastly different than mine. And so there's a complimentary nature to those relationships. And very much so with Alyson, my wife, too, that you obviously know. You met her before I met you.

[00:29:54] We're so different in our abilities, the way we move in the world, the way we operate, that we make a really effective partnership, and there's a lot of harmony there because we're so different. And I think that with the team I have now, and in my marriage, and my interpersonal relationships, what makes them successful is our diversity of personalities.

[00:30:20] But the only way that that diversity works is because we have shared core values, what's fundamentally important to us, the morals that we choose to at least attempt to live by in life. So it's like we're all going in the same direction toward uplifting humanity, helping people heal and so on, but everyone's going to that train station on different tracks.

[00:30:50] So do you find that human design not only identifies the different tracks and how people in your personal life, relationships and so on-- I'm sure as a parent this plays too. Your work life, do you find that the human design archetypes supersede the shared value or the shared goal, or do they work with one another? Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:31:19] Emma: I know exactly what you're saying, and the answer is, in my experience, they sit underneath. So they sit underneath the behavior. They sit underneath the personality. Let me give you an example of what I mean. So one of the things that we look at in our human design is our incarnation cross.

[00:31:37] Now, Ra defined this as the job description of your aura. And he actually talked about for ages that he wasn't even going to teach about it because we would get too caught up in our mind to try and do our incarnation cross. And really, the way it works is it's literally our aura.

[00:31:54] So what do we know about our aura? Our aura is about six feet, could be more around us. And this is the energy of that aura. So every time someone enters into that aura, they're actually entering into the aura to experience that in some way. It's a gift that we give. But there's nothing we have to do to actually experience that or give that to someone else.

[00:32:15] Let me give you an example. So for me, when my first son was born, he is a cross of the sleeping phoenix. So those people that are here that are the sleeping phoenix, they are literally here to help others rise from the ashes. This was the fundamental moment in time that my mental health shifted.

[00:32:37] Him being born gave me so much meaning that all the work that I was doing to recondition my brain and heal from this lineage of mental health that I didn't want anymore, his energy-- all he did was be born and his energy helped me rise from the ashes. When my second son was born, he's a cross of the sphinx, and the sphinx is all about helping people take a new direction, especially when they feel very lost.

[00:33:06] And three months after he was born, I started my first business. So he was that energy that I needed to boot me completely out of the advertising industry and into being an entrepreneur. And they didn't do anything. They were just born. So this is actually happening all the time underneath the level that we are consciously aware of.

[00:33:30] And what I love about human design is means that we can bring conscious awareness to it because once we do that, then we can change it. Because as you know, if we're unconscious to it, we can't change it. And 95% of our behavior is unconscious. So that's why there's so many people that are stuck, if you like. So I feel with human design, it's the thing that's sitting underneath it.

[00:33:51] In DISC, for example, I'm an IS. Well, depending on what day and what you do, I'm an IS. So that is telling me my behavior, my personality. My personality is informed by my energy because when I was little, from a human design perspective, I was this manifesting generator, but I had this split in my energy, and my parents bridge that energy.

[00:34:22] So then my personality was created from who I thought I needed to be to bridge the gate. Or when I suddenly realized my manifesting generator energy was too much for people and then when I started to shut myself down, that was my personality that was created that sat over the top, like I'm too much or.

[00:34:43] They're the beliefs that I had created. So actually our human design, I believe sits underneath us because what I do now is the reverse of that. It's helping people understand their design and then taking the layers off that have prevented them from fully stepping into that. So for example, you actually have what we call a juxtaposition profile. You're a 4/1 profile. Only 2% the global population have that. So it's really rare.

[00:35:11] Luke: Sound very special.

[00:35:12] Emma: You are very special. Absolutely. The incarnation cross that you have is super, super rare, and it's called the cross of risks. So you're actually on the planet to experiment with risk. What is life all about? And that the shadow side of it is, well, I'm going to just blow shit up until I work stuff out. But then what happens is over time you find meaning in that. And all of a sudden the risk will start to evolve into something that's really helpful and rewarding.

[00:35:47] It's helping people. There's also another part. Again, like I was geeking out on your chart yesterday and I'm like, are you kidding me? How is that? You just can't make this stuff up. Another part of your cross is this gate 33. And the shadow is forgetting. It's literally us forgetting who we are.

[00:36:06] And it's a collective energy. And it's in your core talent. So in the shadow, it's just forgetting. So forgetting self, you first. But ultimately in the shadow, it's this energy of forgetting who we are as a race, who we are because of our conditioning. And the higher expression of that is mindfulness.

[00:36:26] It's like, well, hang on a second. How do we remember? Yeah. Well, we're mindful in the moment. So a lot of what you're here to do, and every time, like me stepping into your cross, it makes me just sit there and go, okay, what have I forgotten? What am I sensitive to? Also, you have the gate 19 in your incarnation cross, which is the gate of the sensitive.

[00:36:49] So all of this challenge you've had with EMF, it's because one of your superpowers is sensitivity. Yes, we all communicate through frequency, but the 19 specifically, you'll communicate telepathically, you'll communicate through claircognizance, clairvoyance, all of it. You communicate with animals. You can communicate with plants. We were talking about with plants.

[00:37:16] Luke: That's funny. I do actually communicate with them.

[00:37:20] Emma: Right? It's this gate to the sensitive.

[00:37:23] Luke: Especially when I ingest them.

[00:37:25] Emma: Exactly. So this is part of your superpower, and it's this balance. Especially because of your 4/1 profile, it's this balance between solitude and community. I have all this information, and I want to share it with you. But hang on a second. I actually need to recharge. I need to be sensitive to my needs. You've got the 27 in there as well, which is all about nurturing. In its shadow, you'll nurture everyone else, but you'll forget about you.

[00:37:54] Luke: True that.

[00:37:54] Emma: So it's so this balance for you that is very much about, okay, let's look at the struggle of life. And let's find the meaning as opposed to just struggling for the sake of struggling. I have the gate 28. The way I remember experiencing it so profoundly, and this is your personality sun. So it's like your life's work, is creating meaning from the struggle. And I remember having this moment where I was literally down on my knees, screaming at the sky, like, universe, this isn't me. This depression, this panic disorder, it's not me.

[00:38:35] It feels foreign in my body. I don't know what this is. And I don't know how to do it. And I don't know how to fix it. Proper tantrum. Massive tantrum to the universe. Lost my shit at the universe. And I just hear, Emma, it's not just for you. In that moment, I'm like, oh, so I need to heal this for me so that I can go and share it with everyone else.

[00:38:58] And in my design, I'm a line five. Line 5s want to do a thing called universalize. So we have all these experiences or this knowledge or whatever, and then we have to share it with everyone. It's like, we're compelled to share it with everyone. So for me, that's the gate of struggle. The moment, the meaning kicked in for me, that it was bigger than me.

[00:39:19] That was it. Okay, right. I'm going to double down on the books. I'm going to double down on the meditation. I'm going to double down on the gratitude. I'm going to do all of these things because that meaning was the thing that drove me forward. So just to bring it back to the initial question, I believe in my experience that our design is always there.

[00:39:38] We're always doing it. Everyone's already doing it. It's just sitting below our conditioning. It's sitting below our programming. And the more we can clear out the programming, the more we can live in alignment with our strategy and authority, which is literally our own guidance system, then we clear it so that we can be our most authentic version of ourselves.

[00:40:01] Luke: So it sounds like, from your perspective, your human design is the substrate from which your highest values emerge versus the other way around.

[00:40:15] Emma: I'd agree.

[00:40:18] Luke: Something I've observed in the past four years, a really dramatic and contrasted way, and I'm grossly generalizing here, is I've observed there's a subsect of the population who seem to really value truth and freedom, even if the truth is difficult to digest.

[00:40:44] And I think these are the people that probably gravitate toward a podcast like this. It's like, we want to know what's really going on. And also when we find that what's going on is out of alignment with our morals, we want to put a stop to it in our own unique ways. And you have another subsect of the population-- again, generalizing-- that places a higher value on safety than on truth. And these are the people that I work to be less judgmental of because they're different than me, and I want everyone to be like me. You know what I mean?

[00:41:28] Emma: We're humans. That's what we do.

[00:41:30] Luke: Yeah. So these would be people that were more prone to following directives that were illogical sitting, standing six feet apart, walking around on little stickers at the store and wearing a mask alone in their car on a sunny day and things like that, that admittedly I have been quite judgmental of and also resentful of because it's the bootlickers and authoritarian rule followers to me that without them knowing, allow these systems of control and abuse of humanity to perpetuate and continue on. And I see people like me as the heroes that are going, no, I'm not doing that. The people that resist or that just refuse to comply with being abused.

[00:42:20] But my understanding is growing, I think, a little bit in pursuit of love and understanding and compassion, is that I can't be convinced to value safety and outsourcing my authority over my value of truth, righteousness, fairness, freedom. You can't change me. I can't change me from being that way.

[00:42:49] So why and how would I expect someone who lives from a place of fear, insecurity, and doesn't care about their freedom or my freedom or what's really fundamentally true, objectively, they feel safer in believing a lie and following orders because that's how they're wired and they can't stop being like that either.

[00:43:14] And this explains the phenomenon of showing someone factual statistic data of something like, for example, mass don't work and maybe even viruses aren't even real the way we think about them. You can show someone who really values safety over objective truth, that data in an irrefutable way and they literally cannot-- it's not even that they will not, they cannot see it, and they also refuse to.

[00:43:48] So it's given me more compassion and understanding from that subsect of people and less of a feeling of superiority because I'm wired the way I am and they're wired the way they are and there's probably no changing either of us fundamentally. So from a human design perspective, again, there's probably multitudes of factors here, but if you could also generalize those two broad categories of people as it relates to human design.

[00:44:17] Emma: I love that. It's fascinating just hearing you speak as well because you're talking your design. So just quickly, I can't help but geek out on your design. In your north node--

[00:44:26] Luke: Please do. You can indulge me. I apologize to the audience right now if this conversation at any point become self referential and all about me and my design.

[00:44:35] Emma: I love it.

[00:44:35] Luke: Admittedly, I am interested because I like knowing the way I tick so that I can improve my life and the way I serve in the world.

[00:44:42] Emma: First and foremost, you're just speaking your design. Your north and south node. When we talk about the planets in our design, and you don't really need to know the details, these are our superpowers, our challenges, all of the things that lie within us. They're these things, these themes that are imprinted into us at birth and about three months before we were born, as the neutrinos passed through our body at that time.

[00:45:07] Now, if you don't know what I'm talking about, neutrinos are these subatomic particles that move through everything. They're moving through this vase right now. They're moving through this room. They're moving through us.

[00:45:20] And your human design chart and your astrology chart takes that reading at birth of the neutrinos. And what's happened is the neutrinos have passed through you at the same time and they've left little pieces of the planets. They've left little pieces of the I Ching, the hexagrams of the I Ching that we call the gates.

[00:45:40] So they've left these little pieces of the themes within you. Now, for anyone out there listening to this podcast, you guys will probably just go, yeah, cool. But neutrinos are a thing. They're spending billions of dollars researching them in Japan right now and the power of these things. And this is where we get our reading from.

[00:46:00] And our nodes, our north and south nodes, are the pathway in which we are going to walk in this lifetime. Our south node is where we are walking from. It's something that we come into this lifetime. In human design we say you've come in in this lifetime with this. And then we move into our north node, which is this muscle that we're going to be building.

[00:46:23] It's the thing that we're going to be-- like the veil of the lesson that everything else is veiled with, because it's our pathway in which we'll walk. And on both sides of your chart, your personality and your design, so your mind and your body, you have the same numbers showing up, which not all people do. It just means that it's a very significant theme for you.

[00:46:41] And in your South node, you have the 59. And the 59, and this is what you came in with, is the gate of intimacy. In this gate, in the shadow sits dishonesty. Intimacy is all about trust. It's all about the ability to, over time, be able to trust those relationships, those people.

[00:47:04] And if you came in without that trust, then you would've spent a lot of your early years up until specifically around 40, really learning intimacy. What is intimacy? And getting a point where you get to go, hang on a second. No, intimacy to me means I'm going to take my time. I'm going to build the trust. I'm going to do all of those things. So that's going to be the first part of the journey. But after 40-- and why 40? That's our Uranus opposition. This is when the planet Uranus basically--

[00:47:36] Luke: I'm glad you pronounce it that way because Uranus opposition could take us off on a whole other--

[00:47:41] Emma: Oh, I know. Well, I used to, but I literally did one podcast interview with an astrologer that I could not stop laughing the whole time, and I was acting like a three-year-old. I'm like, I'm just going to call it Uranus from now on. But around 40, we have this Uranus opposition. And the Uranus opposition is what modern day astrology calls the midlife crisis.

[00:47:59] It's a thing. And what happens is that we have this internal revolution. It's when we wake up and we go, hang on a second, I'm not this person. I don't want to be this person. So we have this realization that, in our language, we want to change our conditioning. We want to release our conditioning.

[00:48:16] We want to let go of that mask. But it's also a time that we're like, oh my God, but who am I? We go into this free fall if we don't really know who we are. Now your north node-- so the biggest lesson, the biggest path lesson for you is freedom. It's the shadow of victimization.

[00:48:37] It's exactly what you're talking about. It's the choice to be a victim or the choice to choose freedom. And so freedom is actually the path that you're walking along. And what freedom specifically means to you and then ultimately what it means to all the people out there, through your profile being a 4/1 profile, it's all about gathering this information and sharing what you've learned.

[00:49:03] And once you've learned it exactly what you do on the podcast, people come to you for freedom. I have the 34 in my north node, and it's all about the-- it's called the power of the great. But it's not power like the old paradigm, some old white guy with lots of money. It's self-empowerment.

[00:49:23] People come to me to be self-empowered. They might say they want to improve their business, make more money, improve their relationships. But what they really mean is, I want power. I want my own power. So for you, that's what you're here doing. This is your pathway. Freedom is such a big piece for you.

[00:49:44] Luke: That's so cool to hear and very much aligns because for much of my life-- well, there were instances in which I was legitimately victimized in my childhood. But then there were also many years and many situations in which I adopted a victim mindset. And as I started to identify that and take responsibility for my life and my choices and the way I feel and the way I think, I started to see quickly that I was able to set myself free in any situation when I take responsibility for it.

[00:50:26] And now, it's funny, I don't even think about that concept or that principle. It's just what I do. It's like if I start to feel victimized and fall into self-pity or something like that, it's like, okay, even if it seems like I'm the victim, say a business deal goes bad or there's a conflict in a relationship or something, and I'm 100% certain intellectually that they're wrong and I'm right, that they did it to me and I can prove it in court, 99.9999999% of the time there was something from the inception of that dynamic and the moment I find myself feeling like a victim where I had feelings, thoughts, or behaviors that put me in a position to be harmed. And that's really hard for the ego to reconcile when you really feel like you've been wronged.

[00:51:21] But early in my sobriety journey, it was all about self-honesty and personal responsibility. That was the only way out of that bondage, was like, okay, yeah, other people have fucked you over. We can acknowledge that. And that may or may not be true, but my response to those experiences is what actually created this mess of a life. So that very much makes sense.

[00:51:46] What about the perspective of human design for the second generalized archetype person who is for some reason compelled to put their blinders on and doesn't want to face the truth about the nature of the world or about themselves, because it's so threatening and terrifying that they're willing to outsource their power and deny objective truth in the adherence to the value of safety.

[00:52:18] I don't care if what I believe is not true. It feels safer to me than the scary truth over there that I'm not willing to look at. What is it in that archetype? I would like to understand that type of person because as I said, I have a very challenging time accepting those people for who and what they are.

[00:52:38] Emma: Well, I think the first thing to say is just to have compassion, because at the end of the day, this is who we're conditioned to be. That group of people is who humanity, especially in the Western world, is conditioned to be. It's what society teaches us. It's what the media teaches us.

[00:52:52] It's what education teaches us. It teaches us that we are frail and powerless. We are powerless. That's what we're conditioned to be. The reason why they behave that way, from a behavioral perspective, is because the brain feels safe with familiarity.

[00:53:15] Luke: Right. And certainty. Yeah.

[00:53:17] Emma: Exactly. One of the things that I work with, they're called the core needs. It's human needs psychology. I believe Tony Robbins created it, but it's really powerful. As humans we need six core needs. Any relationship we have, it could be our most intimate relationship or the relationship we have with a flower and everything in between.

[00:53:36] We must fill up certainty, uncertainty, significance, connection, growth, and contribution in every relationship. And of all of those needs, we usually have two primary needs. And most of the global population, 80 something percent have certainty as a primary need. So what that turns into is control. But that's the unresourceful expression.

[00:54:02] Because real certainty is internal certainty. That's, well, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I can handle it. And I remember learning this and going, well, that's a belief I'm programming into my brain. So I'm a person who doesn't need to know the details.

[00:54:18] I don't need to know how it's going to work out because I've programmed into my brain that my certainty sits within me, not with what I can or can't control or what someone else has or doesn't have control of out there. So this is a big fundamental thing for the human race. That's what we're taught.

[00:54:37] We're taught in school that we have to perform to someone else's standards. The teachers know more than we do. We homeschooled our kids for a year as we traveled around Australia, and I remember them having their exit interview with the headmasters of their distance education schools.

[00:54:56] And the standard response is, and do you have any feedback? And both my children said, well, it's too much work. This teacher wasn't very great, but that one was really good. And I remember someone that was with us at the time going, wow, they actually gave solid feedback. And it's because they're conditioned to tell like, if you feel it, tell it. Don't hold it back. But most kids aren't.

[00:55:21] So how does human design play into this? The thing I love about human design and because it's my own personal experience is that once you actually put your chart in and you start to play around with it, the thing you can't deny is resonance. You resonate with what you read. You feel it in your body.

[00:55:45] You feel whether it's true or not. I remember when I first looked at my design, I was just like, oh, it feels true, but I hate it. I didn't want to know that I was a line 3, that everything for me is through trial and error. I didn't want to hear all these certain things about myself. But at the exact same time, I'm like, ugh, it feels true. Yes, these things show up in my body.

[00:56:10] And over time, what I discovered is that every single thing that I resisted in my design was the things I was resisting in me. So it wasn't okay that as a line 3, I experiment. So I fall down and get back up. That's the way I move through life. But that wasn't okay in my world. I was raised by a perfectionist, all of these things.

[00:56:37] But what happened, the more I sat with my design and the more that people just give it a crack, that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying, listen to me and take everything that I say or any other human design expert as dogma or as the book, because it's not, you are, you're the power.

[00:56:56] So if you resonate with it, just experiment with it. And the more you experiment, just see what happens in your life. Because at the end of the day, our whole mission is to take human design mainstream. We want to take it into the places that most people would be like, you're weird. It's freaky deke. It's whatever.

[00:57:14] And even growing my business, I had this experience of people would cross their arms when I went in to teach DiSC profiling. So how is this any different? What I noticed then is that the moment they resonated, the moment they were like, hang on a second, you're not telling me who I am, but what you're telling me feels true for me, that's when it makes a difference.

[00:57:39] So for me, that other group, the more that we can just get them to give it a shot, just to see what resonates with them, that's going to make a difference. But at the moment, the conditioning is so heavy. The other thing that I want to say is, from a human design perspective, we're moving into this new paradigm, okay?

[00:58:00] That happens in 2027. We have this governing energy. And we're moving into a governing energy that includes the 55 that I just told you about, this time of freedom, time of personal power that I told you about, the 34. Intimacy. Intimacy is shifting, like what that looks like.

[00:58:19] We're seeing that everywhere right now. And ultimately, we're moving into this new time. So I do believe as our governing or our background energy start to shift and change, because the one that we're in right now, honestly, that has themes of patriarchy in it. It has man, woman, marriage, money. It has those sorts of things within this overarching paradigm.

[00:58:43] Now, it's been great in building the industrial revolution and all of these industries and being able to live longer and all of those things, but that doesn't work anymore. It's peaked out. It's falling apart. And as we move into this new paradigm, there's all of these different themes that are coming in that I really believe that second group, because of this governing energy, they will start to wake up. But honestly, also that second group, depending on which sort of story that you follow, I think there will be a time where there is a significant group of people that do fall away, if you like.

[00:59:25] Luke: Many of them are falling away, dying suddenly and unexpectedly right now. As sad as that is, it's like a karmic test, soul exam that unfortunately many people have failed in terms of their own discernment and their own inner knowing and wisdom and outsourcing their [Inaudible] autonomy to the powers that be that obviously don't hold their highest good in the decisions they make and the solutions that they offer.

[01:00:05] One thing that's always been a curiosity to me, and it's something that I'm quite aware of and believe to be true in my own subjective experience, is the shadow element of other people's personalities that we find most irritating are the things within ourselves that we don't like.

[01:00:27] Emma: Oh my God. I love that you've asked me this.[01:00:30] Luke: You talked about, in my human design, that element of trust and honesty. And if I had to pick my biggest pet peeve, meaningful pet peeves, not like you like tea and I like coffee and your tea annoys me, not superficial, but the meaningful things at the foundation of life, I would have to say liars are my nemesis.

[01:00:59] Especially when there are groups of liars that are controlling or seek to control or harm large groups of people, AKA government agencies, the by far, largest cause of death on record worldwide. And I also am able to apply some self-honesty because it's been so helpful for me to do that as I said earlier.

[01:01:27] But I think one of the reasons why phony people and liars bother me so much is because that's how I spent the first half of my life. I was just completely dishonest all the time, stole, lied, cheated, was completely phony and fallacious in order to survive my circumstances. And so when I overcame that, I think there's a sense of self-righteousness at times.

[01:01:58] Well, I stopped being that way. It is something that I hold some probably healthy and maybe not healthy pride about, like, I don't lie. I'm not phony. I just don't say things that are not true, period. I just don't do it. Every once in a while, I'm thinking of one instance and with Alyson that I was dishonest in just withholding a piece of information, that was meaningful.

[01:02:24] But not even an outright lie. And so I get on my high horse about that and I'm very judgmental toward other people. And for some, they might be annoyed by angry people or whatever character traits. And I've observed that usually it's the thing that you most loathe about yourself that you loathe in others.

[01:02:43] So from your perspective, as someone who understands human psychology or from the human design perspective, why do we project that animosity toward others for things that we ourselves have done or continue to do?

[01:02:59] Emma: This is such a great question, and what's fascinating is my answer would have been different had we met a week ago. So the personal development mainstream answer to that is as within so without. So what we see in others is in us. And that's called the mirror.

[01:03:22] So in my behavioral terms, we talk about it as perception is projection. So what we project onto someone else is just our perception. But really there are these six mirrors as written in the Essene texts. And I didn't even know about them until Gregg Braden taught them at this thing that I just went to.

[01:03:45] And what you're talking about is actually the second mirror. So the first mirror is when we see it in others, it shows up in us. And why does it show up in us? Because it's something that needs healing within us. But the second mirror is judgment. It's our judgments. So these people will potentially turn up in your life that are dishonest, let's say.

[01:04:08] And it's the judgment piece, that needs to be released. It's showing up to say, okay, look, this judgment isn't actually, in my terms, resourceful for you. You have to learn to let go of that judgment. Because otherwise you will continually be surrounded, or that will happen, that pattern, more to the point, not it'll keep showing up, but that pattern will keep showing up until you learn to release it.

[01:04:35] And Gregg talks about, bless the person that you're judging. Bless yourself for the judgment, and bless whoever the victim is of maybe their behavior that you're judging, if that makes sense. Because you've got to release the actual judgment. Because ultimately, and it's really fascinating because, again, it goes back to that 59 of yours and the 55.

[01:05:02] So in your South and North node, because you've had such a journey with it, but there's still that part of you, your ego, that's like, well, say I could do it. Why can't you? But the ultimate freedom--

[01:05:18] Luke: It's so annoying. It's like, well, yeah, exactly that. It's like, well, if I could do it, anyone could do it. Stop lying, stop hurting other people.

[01:05:28] Emma: Where really, where your superpower is-- the 55 is also called the gate of abundance. And it actually teaches abundance better than anyone else I've ever learned. And trust me, I've done every abundance and money thing there is. But the 55 actually says that abundance is abundance of spirit.

[01:05:46] So when you have abundance of spirit, AKA freedom, then you attract all the good things. So ultimately, that judgment piece, putting the Essene text, the second mirror, putting behavioral stuff together with your human design, I would say the lesson for you is true freedom is being able to be in the presence of someone who's not woken up, who's believing what they're being told and just being okay with it.

[01:06:13] Being like, all right, well, you do you. And not having the visceral response because that's when you fully healed it. So you've healed it in you as an individual, but it's that judgment piece that shows up that still needs the healing.

[01:06:28] Luke: It's much easier for me to find compassion for people that are susceptible to deception than it is the people doing the deceiving.

[01:06:39] Emma: Yeah, yeah.

[01:06:40] Luke: People doing the deceiving are the ones that really get under my skin, especially when the deception becomes meaningfully destructive to other people.

[01:06:52] Emma: But you think about like, you love Dr. David Hawkins. You know how the scale of consciousness works. This is the way I look at it because I resonate with what you're saying. I have the same thing. I remember being at school and one of the teachers at my school that was known for sexual abuse with the girls, he put a hand on my friend's leg, and I lost it. I lost it. I'm like, you can't touch her. I get it. It's something that really has triggered me over my lifetime as well. Oh my God, where was I going with that?

[01:07:31] Luke: David Hawkins's work, scale of consciousness.

[01:07:35] Emma: But the thing is, what I have discovered over the last 20 years of working out this meat suit and the spirit that fills it, and then trying to help others, is that my consciousness is the most important thing. So if my need to be attached to a judgment of these people, and there are certain people that over the last few years I've really learned how to invest, invest money and do that sort of things. The best things to invest are also like evil humans. I won't invest in those businesses.

[01:08:07] So there are places that I maintain that. But one of the things, and it was actually the guys from the FLFE, they were teaching something inside my HDX community, and before I started working with them, they calibrated me. And they said to me, look, we've calibrated you, and on average, you're just above 500.

[01:08:32] And I was like, wow, that's epic. If the human race is around 200 or just below 200, I'm like, that's great, but what does it mean? I'm very practical. My line 5 wants to be very practical. And they said, well, your energy, your consciousness helps raise the consciousness of 600,000 other people just by sitting here in this chair. Not the words I'm using, just my energy.

[01:09:00] So I would say to you, I would say that you have a very high consciousness, that your responsibilities to that consciousness, because those people in that second group that we were talking about, they need us. They need our consciousness that's pulling up the planet so that they can see the things that they can't see.

[01:09:18] Because from a consciousness perspective, from Dr. David Hawkins's scale, they don't even have access to the things that you have access to. They're not even at a place that they could understand that they should look at their drinking water. Do you know what I mean? That would never occur to them because they're not at that consciousness.

[01:09:37] So for me specifically, and I think how human design works into this, the more authentic I can be, the more I can love, trust, and accept myself, the more I'm the primary authority in my own life, and the more I allow source through my strategy to guide me, that's how I'm serving all of those people.

[01:09:57] My mind is very attached to, but how? I need the details. What are the exact steps that are creating this for them? We've got to do the work. So I can either get lost in the how, which is a really three-dimensional question, or I can stay in this more five dimensional, like, well, what can I do?

[01:10:17] What's the best place for my attention, for my focus? How can I serve the most people? And I genuinely believe the way we serve people, the first thing we have to do is love, trust, and accept ourselves. That is the best thing we can do to serve other people. And for you specifically, from a human design perspective, this profile I keep referring to, the 4/1, you're really different. You're what we call a fixed fate.

[01:10:45] So for me, I'm a personal profile, so it's about my journey and then I share it with the world. Taylor who works with me, she's a transpersonal profile, so she thinks more about the other first. But for you, you're this one in the middle. And what happens with the juxtaposition, with the fixed fate, is that you're almost like this train, and you are moving along your tracks. And people are just literally going to get sucked with you.

[01:11:15] So your role is just to be the best version of you. Don't worry about what the old white guys are doing. Yes, be focused on it so that it informs better decisions for you, but don't let that precious consciousness of yours go there because your mind is still in this place, your identity, your behavior.

[01:11:36] That part of you is so invested in, well, the only way I can help people is, and I don't know if this is true, and I'm super happy to be wrong, is by this podcast or by the work that the physical doing that I do. Yeah, that's great. But you're helping so many more people by being the best version of you because that's directly correlated to consciousness.

[01:11:55] Luke: So true. It makes perfect sense. Yeah, it's a temptation to fall into the erroneous belief that to see the change we want to see in the world requires us doing something about it, when in reality, to your point, it's about who we become and who we be, who we are, rather than what we do. Because fundamentally, who we are is what informs what we do.

[01:12:30] And so it's kind of like that element of spiritual bypassing and projection that you see a lot in the world of people chasing significance by demonstrating what they're doing as a good person and doing good in the world. Meanwhile, you can suspect in some cases, yeah, but what about you?

[01:12:51] Who are you being. And our motivations, I think, are also very much dictated by who we believe ourselves to be and who we know ourselves to be. You're going to every micro decision and every meaningful decision you make in your life is based on your consciousness.

[01:13:09] But it's hard to remember that. For me sometimes it's like, I have thoughts that are unkind because I want to see the people doing harm to the planet and to other people. I want to see them punished, if I'm being really honest.

[01:13:23] Emma: Yeah.

[01:13:25] Luke: It's like when is one of these mother effers going to jail or even worse, punishment if I was the one meeting it.

[01:13:32] Emma: Yeah, I've been there. I get it.

[01:13:33] Luke: And I know consciously that that's counterproductive, but there's still that core rebel archetype or that fundamental person in me that wants to have justice be served when it's like, it's not my job to do that actually. Actually, the most effective I could probably be is, and I am able to do this at times, to find truly unconditional love for even people that I view as my enemy or the enemy of the people. And that is really the only effective path forward.

[01:14:16] Emma: Yeah, I think that. For me personally, that's one of my greatest habits, rituals. Naturally for me, as a kid, I was very-- I'm super sensitive, highly sensitive person. I freak people out because I'll be like, wow, did you see that and that, and that, and that? And they were like, what are you even talking about?

[01:14:39] When I worked in advertising, my boss would take me into every meeting and we'd walk out, and he'd be like, okay, what really happened in that room? I'd be like, well, he meant that. He lied about that, da da da. But at the end of the day, I think what is so important for us to be focused on when it comes to-- my ritual, that's what I was talking about, is just to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

[01:15:04] As a coach, something that I learned working with people, one of my values is to be curious, not judgmental. And as a coach, it's probably one of the greatest skills you need to have. In corporate, I actually used to coach a lot what I named the problem child, usually the man in the group that is highly talented but just the person everyone couldn't stand.

[01:15:32] And if he could just do the thing that he's really great at, he'd be amazing. And I would just coach this person over and over and over again. And each CEO, each general manager would be like, what did you do? And ultimately, the first thing is that I was curious, not judgmental. I got to know the child that was hurting inside, that was creating all of this unresourceful behavior.

[01:15:55] I helped that child understand that they don't need the unresourceful behavior, that they can in fact just be themselves. And once they learn to love, trust, and accept themselves, then there's no need for all of this unresourceful behavior. So one of the things I just love to do is put myself in other people's shoes.

[01:16:15] I remember doing this years and years ago. Because even in my business, when Trump ran for the presidency the first time, there was all these different opinions in my community, and I'm Australian. So it's like, I didn't really have an opinion. And I remember just sitting there, just being curious, not judgmental.

[01:16:36] Because I mean, I've got an opinion. I'm a woman. I have all my opinions, the way he treats women just on a tiny little piece. I was like, you know what? I'm just going to put all of that aside. And I remember one day sitting there thinking about little Donald just being emotionally abused, just being like torn down and told he's useless and all of these things. And all of a sudden I'm like, wow, he just hasn't changed.

[01:17:04] He's just that child trying to get back at his dad. And in that moment, and I have no affiliation either way or opinions that I'm going to go into at any rate, but the point being that this was a place that I was like, wow, this is a person I never thought I could find compassion for. Yet, when I just sat here and just went through the process and imagined-- because again, what we project out into the world is what we received at some point. We've received this.

[01:17:38] When would we have received it? Somewhere between zero to seven, in our imprinting stage. So we're little when we're taking all this stuff in, when we're being treated this way. My work is about unlocking all of that trauma, helping people let go of it. And when you start to see that, that person that you judge the most, and I'm not saying that they're they're right, wrong, good or bad.

[01:18:02] I'm not saying that these people haven't done bad things. They have. When we can understand where they're coming from, this is where we go, all right, well, my energy is going to be better spent in helping those people that I can help raise their consciousness, that I can, in my case, help with their human design, that I can empower.

[01:18:26] My energy is so much better spent there than trying to fight against these judgments within me. And it's not to say that I don't have them. It literally happened in the gym this morning. We were in the gym and this guy used four plastic cups. And for me, like, a, bring your own bottle.

[01:18:43] Have you not heard about the planet? Be kind to her. And he used four cups and I walked out of the thing and I said to T, and I'm ranting about four cups, and I'm like oh, I'm doing that judgment thing. Maybe he doesn't understand. I'm going to bless him. I'm going to bless the planet.

[01:18:59] I'm going to bless myself. Because he didn't even know it was happening. He had no clue. Yet I was getting my knickers in a twist about it. And how was that serving anybody? So it's this line that I feel like we're constantly walking there. There isn't right, wrong. There's like, your heart.

[01:19:19] And if you can walk a path in alignment with your heart, I think that's where your morals and your values and all of those things come from. In the same breath, it's not to say that there are people doing some really crappy stuff out there. And we do need to make sure that as many people as possible that want to know, have the opportunity to know.

[01:19:43] Luke: It's interesting that human design and astrology are both based on the date, time, and place of your birth. Is that a proper assessment? I don't know that there's an answer to this. It's just a curiosity. I wonder what the difference is between how these energies affect you as a living person based on when you actually emerge from your mother into this material realm versus the moment of conception.

[01:20:21] Do you know of any one or any teaching? We don't know the moment of conception. There's different beliefs around when the soul actually enters to be baby. I sense that the energies in the cosmos and all the things that influence us in the ways we've been discussing must also have an impact when you're swimming inside your mom too. And then it seems that most of these systems and modalities are solely focused on the moment you actually come out. Have you thought about that?

[01:20:59] Emma: Yeah, absolutely. And in human design, we cover that base.

[01:21:02] Luke: Really?

[01:21:03] Emma: Yeah, we do.

[01:21:03] Luke: Oh, interesting.

[01:21:04] Emma: Because we take two readings. So when we're looking at a chart, there's a column on the right and there's a column on the left. And the column on the right is what we call your personality, and that's your birth time. But on the left, we have the body.

[01:21:19] It's 88 degrees of the sun or approximately three months before you're born. And that's when the soul comes in. So that's actually the vehicle. That side of your chart is the vehicle that's driving you around. The other side of your chart is your personality.

[01:21:36] So it's that passenger consciousness that's sitting there. So on the right hand side of our chart, for you, the gate of struggle and the gate of caring, these are two really, really primary energies for you. You're going to be more aware of them because their energies that are more present in the mind, in the personality.

[01:21:57] So you're really aware of the binary. We've talked a lot about it, the binary of almost the 59 from the dishonesty and through to intimacy and all of those sorts of things. And then on the left-hand side of our chart is our body. So this is actually more our soul purpose. It's the things that are innate in us.

[01:22:18] So we mightn't necessarily think about them, but when we hear them, so this 33 for you, which is the gate of privacy, this is this energy that is in the shadow, the forgetting. So forgetting who we are. What happens is that you grow up. In human design they use the word unconscious, but I don't love it as a behavioral coach.

[01:22:44] I don't think it's quite right. I think it's innate. So it's innate in you that, almost as a go-to, potentially, there would have been this shadow of forgetting. Almost forgetting who you are, as in your humanness, was almost like a shadow or a go-to or an ego way of avoiding being present in your body. But mindfulness is the gift.

[01:23:11] So this is where you actually start to step into, wow, I love to sit in solitude and reflect on the past and the things that we've learned as we're being taught, the things that we've learned from the experiences that we've had. And when I sit with all of these things, I really remember not only who I am, but who we are as human beings.

[01:23:31] So this energy on that side of the chart, it's a little bit more innate. So it's almost like you're probably not so aware of it, but when I say it to you, you're like, oh yeah, yeah, that's within me, but you probably don't think about it too much. Does that resonate at all?

[01:23:47] Luke: Yeah, it does. And it's interesting that you made a demarcation at three months for the soul entering the body because David Hawkins tested that the degree of truth to that a number of times, and he always came up with about three months. And also, ended up being quite a controversial person, the man credited for bringing kundalini yoga to the West, Yogi Bhajan, in some of his lectures, he also said the same thing.

[01:24:19] Emma: Yeah. Wow.

[01:24:19] Luke: So it's interesting. It's interesting when you hear something reiterated from totally different unrelated sources that arrive at the same conclusion. Intuitively, that's always made sense to me, but again, there's no way to prove it. But there has to be some point at which the sperm has met the egg and a third entity has been created that's not yet carrying a soul, so to speak. And then at some point these souls, floating around in the ethers go, bingo. That's my home and pop in there.

[01:24:54] Emma: Exactly. Okay, time to squeeze into the tiny meat suit.

[01:24:56] Luke: Yeah. And at that moment, something's got to be happening that has an impact on the rest of our lives. What about addiction and human design? Are there human design types that are more prone to that path?

[01:25:11] Emma: Mm. So there's going to be areas of the chart. There is actually one of the gates in the human design chart in the gene keys, which is-- I keep referring to the gene keys as well. So the human design is the thing that Ra brought in. Then there was this epic human that worked with Ra that launched human design in the UK called Richard Rudd.

[01:25:35] Now Richard Rudd then channeled this information for the gene keys. Now, the gene keys, in human design, we call them the 64 gates. They are the 64 hexagrams of the I Ching, and he calls them the gene keys.

[01:25:54] Luke: Is this Rudd fellow still around?

[01:25:56] Emma: Yes. You should absolutely have him on the podcast. He's fascinating. He calls himself a poet. So getting the Gene Keys book and doing your Gene Keys is-- so the teacher that I learnt with was interviewing him once and they talked about human design is like the masculine, the structure, the skeleton. And then the gene keys is everything that goes on top of that and the feminine, everything that brings it to life. Where was I going?

[01:26:29] Luke: We were talking about addiction.

[01:26:32] Emma: Okay. In human design, there is a specific gate, the 24, which you don't have, by the way, that has a shadow of addiction. It's addiction to thought, but it can show up in other ways. And there are other gates that there are influences of addiction, but where addiction is going to show up, in my experience, quite often, if you're that sort of addictive type of personality, is going to be in what we call your undefined centers.

[01:27:02] So our undefined centers are our chakras. They're our chakras, and in human design, we've got a few more chakras. In the whole download that Ra had, the heart chakra split out into two, and the solar plexus also split out into the spleen. So the spleen became a chakra as well.

[01:27:26] So in our undefined centers, so what that means is these are centers that when we look at a chart, they're white. It's actually where we're taking in other people's energy. We're going to take in other people's programming. And the challenge is that we think it's ours.

[01:27:43] So we're feeling this energy and we think it's ours, but in fact, it's not. It's somebody else's. So where addiction comes in, is where it's almost like you feel like you have to have that energy, but it's not actually innately yours. So for you, you've actually got an undefined G centre. The G centre is like part of the heart. It's where the higher self sits. It's where love and direction sits.

[01:28:15] Luke: The gangster center.

[01:28:16] Emma: Yeah, right. I love it. The gangster, the center. And you also have an undefined will center and root center. So the will center is another part of the heart. So what that means is that your heart chakra, if you like, so the G center in the will center, there's been a part of you that your mind has thought is missing.

[01:28:39] And that's basically love, direction, and self worth. So at some point, the mind creates the identity, the belief systems, all the things to almost fill in the gaps. And in your case, potentially that feeling of not having consistent love, direction, and self-worth, the best way to cover that up was potentially through addiction. Does that feel like it resonates?

[01:29:02] Luke: Yeah. Absolutely.

[01:29:04] Emma: So often times in our undefined centers, this is where we're going to find our most conditioned behavior. You also have an undefined root center. So what does that mean? That means that you probably felt the pressure to get stuff done, to move, to be very busy, all of these things, even though actually, innately, that's really not the way you're designed.

[01:29:26] Because you're an emotional authority, you're a emotional generator and you're actually designed to make decisions over time. So sometimes over time could mean five minutes. Both of my kids, they don't ask me something in the moment to answer. They'll just say, I'm just going to put this here, mum. Can you give me an answer on this?

[01:29:47] Sometimes it could be five minutes. But anything big, I'm just going to sleep on it. So it's the same for you. Your authority is all about sleeping on it. So you were probably conditioned when you were younger to make quick decisions, to be super busy, to do all these things. And it's almost like it's kind of stuck like glue. Does that feel like it resonates at all?

[01:30:05] Luke: Yeah, that makes sense for sure.

[01:30:07] Emma: Whereas for you, it's all about making decisions over time. So sometimes any big decisions, you just want to sleep on it. And what you're going to notice is because you have this innate emotional wave that's always going on inside of you, and this was something for me being a behavioral coach that just blew my mind, because I'd be sitting there in my trainings and my friend who I now know is what we call a sacral being, she doesn't have this emotional authority like we do. And we would be doing these really cool NLP healing things.

[01:30:36] And she'd be like, oh, I'm done. I'd be like, are you kidding me? Five goes later and it's fixed for me, but I can fix it in everybody else, but I can't fix it in me. And then when I came to human design, I understood that because I have a mechanical emotional wave, that's always playing out.

[01:30:54] It's not good old Tony Robbins 101, the thought creates a feeling. The feeling creates an emotion. The emotion creates a mood. That I actually have this mechanical wave. And what that means is that I'm going to feel down, middle, and up, all the time. It doesn't matter the language that I'm using in my head. But when I can attribute a more resourceful meaning to it, then it's a complete game changer.

[01:31:17] So for me specifically, when I'm in my emotional low now, instead of being on my own case or trying to make big decisions, I'm like, well, I'm not making any decisions until tomorrow. I'm going to go and put my feet up. I'm going to nurture myself. I'm going to do these things instead of what I used to do and just literally telling myself, like my mother would, pull yourself together, Emma, and just get on with it. So really understanding that wave is super, super important for you. Does that feel like it resonates?

[01:31:46] Luke: It does, yeah. It's interesting because there are, broadly speaking, two schools of thought. One being, and it just has to do with neurotransmitters and neuroscience. One is speaking more to males, I think, in this case, is that if you accomplish something, it has to do with testosterone and things like that too.

[01:32:12] Maybe you don't feel like doing anything or you don't feel like doing the things that you're supposed to do on any given day. And then when you do some of those things, you'll feel better. And then that will reverberate in your ability to be able to do more. And I've attempted to apply that as I've learned that information, and it doesn't feel as true for me as I've got to do whatever I need to do to make myself feel good, and then I can go accomplish the thing that needs to be accomplished.

[01:32:42] I can't sit down and do the big, scary, important thing if I don't feel like doing it. And so I have to modulate the way that I feel through however I might do that on any given day. And then I can sit down and do the thing. So that predominant belief or predominant principle, I think, does apply for many men that I know, but not so much for me. Does that make sense in your world?

[01:33:07] Emma: 100%. So two things. First thing, progress equals happiness. So the human brain is wired, and this was one of the first things I learned when I was healing my mental health, when I was rewiring my brain, is that I needed progress. So if I could see the progress that I was creating towards happiness, then I was going to get to happiness faster.

[01:33:29] So our brain does thrive. Progress equals happiness. However, number one, you're a generator. So you're a sacral being. So 70% of the global population are either generators or manifesting generators. So you're a generator. I'm a manifesting generator. And we are literally here to build the new paradigm.

[01:33:53] We have the energy to do the work. Now, in this space, the way that we want to look about this in the past or look towards this in the past is where the people that have been manipulated and conditioned to work our asses off and get stuff done because we have the energy physically in our bodies and the energy to do that.

[01:34:14] Now, what human design actually teaches us is all sacral beings are here, yes, to build, to work. However, they're here to do the things that light them up. And what does light them up specifically mean? It means the things they have energy for, not the things they don't have energy for. I think about my business versus my advertising career.

[01:34:40] So I did really well in advertising, but it didn't light me up. It was my friends that lit me up. To be honest, in my 20s, I loved the social side of it, the people we got to meet, the parties we went to. At the end of the day, I remember getting to the end of my career and just going, I just can't do it.

[01:34:57] I don't know what's wrong with me. I just can't do it. And then when I started training before human design and coaching, I'm like, oh my God, I could study, raise two kids. At that time, my husband was traveling all over the place. I was building a business, studying, two young children. I had all this energy.

[01:35:15] And the thing is that what I think human design is really going to serve the planet with is you've got to understand that you've got to focus on the things that light you up. If you're a generator type, then you've got to focus on the things you have energy for because it's literally your sacral saying, yes, I have energy for this or no, I don't.

[01:35:34] And when it's a no, it's a freaking no. You got to say no. And so many of my clients and the people that I work with when they first come to me, they're like, I wouldn't do anything. I don't want to do anything that I do. And that's the point because sacral beings are also setting the life force energy for the planet.

[01:35:54] So if we're all exhausted because we're doing things we don't want to do, that's the life force energy of the planet. So we really have to focus on the things that we have energy for. So for you as an emotional authority, you are going to have good energy, but it's going to be inconsistent because when you're in your emotional wave, you probably will be like-- I know for me, my emotional wave is exhausting.

[01:36:19] It can be really tiring. And I'm not even being overly emotional, but I need the time to recover. So that process for you, like sleeping on it, waiting till you do have energy for it, waiting till you've got enthusiasm or excitement to do the thing, that's super, super important. And then if you've got things like your taxes that nobody wants to do, it's like, well, just do them piecemeal off the back or when you can outsource it or just being really conscious.

[01:36:45] And when I first learned all of this, I'm like, oh, that doesn't sound like it's possible. Seriously, we all have to do things we don't want to do. And there are things that I do that I don't want to do, but it doesn't feel hard. I feel like I have energy for it because my cycle is like, yeah, that thing is outside of your comfort zone.

[01:37:03] It's not out of alignment for you. It's just outside of your comfort zone. And me as a manifesting generator, that's one of the things about us, is that we like to be out of our comfort zone, whether I like to admit it or not. So it's really understanding the energy for a generator like you.

[01:37:20] When the energy's there, do it. But when the energy's not there, honor it. Because otherwise, you'll do a thing called functional burnout. So we hear a lot about burnout these days. All the stress in the world is creating a lot of burnout. Now, the non sacral beings, which are the projectors, the manifesters, and the reflectors, when they're burnt out, often they're just laid flat on a bed.

[01:37:46] They're in hospital, all the things. The challenge with the sacral beings, the generators and the manifesting generators, is that we'll always have the energy most of the time. 90% of the time, we're going to have the energy to keep going. But we literally lose our passion for life.

[01:38:03] So we enter into Groundhog Day. We're just living like a zombie day in, day out, because we're no longer listening to our sacral, which is one of our fundamental guiders in the body. It is part of our authority. And we've just ignored it so much that we're just going through life without literally being able to tap into the most powerful motor in the body.

[01:38:24] Luke: That's so interesting. It probably explains why some of us excel at working for other people and some of us find that to be a living hell, myself being of the latter category.

[01:38:40] Emma: Yeah, that is in your design as well.

[01:38:42] Luke: There's just no way I could have a job ever. I tried it once, and it didn't suit me.

[01:38:49] Emma: It's called a line number.

[01:38:52] Luke: Because it's like showing up to any given location at the same time every day with the same people and being expected to do things that one doesn't necessarily feel-- again to that emotional center, doesn't feel like doing that right now. Yeah, that really rings true because, again, going back to that being motivated to do something or not do something based on how one feels just is the way that I'm wired.

[01:39:26] God, this is such valuable information for people because I think, as you've highlighted here, our society is built in such a uniform expectation going into the school system, right? Training people to be factory workers in the Rockefeller education system and all of that.

[01:39:52] And it's really-- I was going to say it's a shame, but it's all part of human evolution. But in my experience, and many people I know that are creative feeling people, because those are the kind of people that I obviously resonate with in my personal life and on the show too, really, it's frustrating as a kid, like you experienced where your value and the metric by which your talent or achievements are measured is antithetical to the way you're innately wired.

[01:40:27] And so you're set up to feel dumb or to feel like a failure or to feel incompetent or inadequate. And then that hurts your self-esteem and self-worth, and then you enter into, some of us went to college, others right into the workforce, and you're continually trying to force yourself into these molds that don't fit, and then it's like a compounding of this failure energy and this frustration energy, which could go in a number of different directions, to escapism or to just depression and lethargy, and it's just like, wow.

[01:41:03] Emma: And your soul is just dying in there.

[01:41:04] Luke: So it's like, I'm imagining a world where the pencil pushing accountant and bookkeeper that loves to crunch numbers and has an aptitude for it is encouraged to do that. And the kid that wants to go play with the anthill is encouraged to do that. I go, wow.

[01:41:23] That's one thing that's really exciting about the obvious failure of our education system, is you have so many parents now thinking outside of the box and finding alternative schools and homeschooling. I see things on social media probably because I click on something, the algorithm goes, give him more of that.

[01:41:41] And I go, wow, man, there's so many great things emerging in the realm of psychology and parenting and really celebrating every unique soul for their God-given gifts and talents and proclivities. But having come out of that system, it's just like, oh my God, how did I ever make it out alive?

[01:42:02] Emma: I feel the same way.

[01:42:03] Luke: Thinking about those little wooden desks, I don't even know if they still have those in schools, presumably so. Yeah, I remember sitting in school and just looking out the window and just going like, oh my God, just watching the clock, the second hand till recess, to lunch, to the end of the day. It was like every day, I think school ended around 3:00 PM. The bell would go off, ding ding ding. It was like being set free from prison. Every day.

[01:42:30] Emma: I'm pretty sure that's why they use the bells, right?

[01:42:31] Luke: Yeah, totally. Factory workers, ding ding ding, lunch time. It's training you for that Pavlov's dog. So this is all very inspiring and exciting. For people listening that aren't me, and thank you for indulging me and some insights about myself, but obviously there are a number of people listening that don't identify with anything you've shared about me, give us an overview of the five types in human design so that we can pique people's curiosity.

[01:43:02] And I'll encourage people also to go to lukestorey.com/humandesign, where we're going to link to, of course, your social media website, etc. Also your online community.

[01:43:12] Emma: And they can get their free chart on there as well on my website.

[01:43:14] Luke: Oh, epic. Okay, cool. And then you also, before I forget, have a workshop where you teach people how to actually create a business and to become human design coaches, which it's super cool, and I'll ask you to talk about that at the end. But we'll put all that, again, at lukestorey.com/humandesign. So break down the five types in a bird's eye view overview so that people can maybe find themselves in that and have their curiosity peak to learn more.

[01:43:43] Emma: I love it. So one of the things that Ra talked about were these five types-- now, five types weren't in the original download. This is what Ra's put together to help us or to help him teach it. Now, these five fundamental types are the jumping off point. And I want to just say that first, because the beauty of human design is in the detail.

[01:44:08] It is the science of differentiation. It's all about how you are different to someone else rather than how you are alike like someone else, even though the human brain just loves everyone that's like them. So the five types, we start with manifesters. So manifesters are the only ones on the planet that we call initiators.

[01:44:28] So these are the ones that are going to start something new. For example, I have a number of manifesters in my life, but one specifically that comes to mind is a friend of mine, Jess, and she introduced me to this person. This person is now one of my best friends. She's been on the podcast.

[01:44:49] She's a wealth coach, spiritual investor. She's a wealth coach. I've worked with her, all of these things. And I remember at the time thinking, hmm, I wonder. Because I was thinking about finding a wealth coach and doing all of this stuff, typical human design. I was thinking about it and then something turned up in my external reality for me to respond to.

[01:45:09] And from that manifester initiating something in me, something great unfolded. Now, there are a lot of manifesters that do bigger things. They will introduce a new idea, a new concept, all sorts of things. I often think about the manifester energy from an advertising agency. They would be the ones that work on the pitches. They work really hard for two weeks on the pitch, then they pitch it to the agency, and then they go and take a month off because they tend to have this inconsistent energy.

[01:45:39] But when the creativity is running through them, that's the thing they just have to do. Now, manifesters are also, in the old knowledge, called polarizing. I don't love that idea, but they do have their very specific people that they are here to inspire into action. So if you're a manifester, please know that you need to stop people pleasing because there are meant to be just as many people who like you that don't like you.

[01:46:09] Because you are very much here to inspire the people that love what you're doing and who you're being, you're going to be here to inspire them into action. So it's really important that manifesters stop people pleasing and they're super authentically themselves.

[01:46:27] Then the next one we have is generators. So generators are the largest group, and with manifesting generators, which is a hybrid I'll get to in a minute. They make up 70% of the global population. So these people, generally when they're in alignment, they feel really good to be around. They're feel like they're full of life force energy.

[01:46:47] They're the ones that are here to literally follow what lights them up. Anything that you have energy for, go do it, because you're here to build that on planet Earth. They are also people that are in response. So many generators and manifesting generators come to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I feel so relieved that I don't have to initiate, I don't have to go out and take massive action and do all the things.

[01:47:13] Because when you wait to respond-- so you might have intuition. You might have a thought. You might have all this stuff going on inside of you. You might have someone else telling you to do something. But if your gut, if your sacral doesn't say, yes, I got energy for that, then you just got it. Wait until a time when you do.

[01:47:32] Because what the sacral literally is doing is showing you the fast track. It's telling you, that's a no for you. That's a yes for you. So being in response is super important and always paying attention to the gut response, which is often you'll see people nodding your head. So often I've asked you today, does that resonate?

[01:47:50] I already know it resonates because your sacral is giving me a response. Where your sacral would give me like a head shake or a nothing if it's still trying to work it out. I often say to people when you're a generator type, go to the refrigerator. Open the refrigerator and watch what you do.

[01:48:06] Literally your eyes will go around and go, yes, I want that or, no, I don't want that. So that is how you actually navigate through life. So really paying attention to what you do and don't have energy for and being super conscious of saying no when it's a no, when you don't have energy for things. Because many generators and manifesting generators feel obliged.

[01:48:27] They feel, well. If I don't do it, no one else is going to do it. Oh, I've got the energy. Oh, I'll just get it done. And that's leading all of these people to functional burnout instead of building this new world. Then we have manifesting generators. So manifesting generators are a hybrid of the manifester and the generator.

[01:48:47] So one thing that both the manifester and the manifesting generator have to do is inform. So this is kind of declaring the direction of their energy. So it's quite interesting. A lot of people will say to me, wow, your kids, they tell you where they're going, what they want to do. They like call you when they're out. That's weird.

[01:49:09] And it's just because they're both manifesting generators, and so am I. So they've just been taught from a young age just to inform. It's not asking permission. It's not looking for justification. It's just informing the direction of your energy. Because then what happens is the people that would get in your way, they don't. Or the situations that would get in your way, they don't. So informing is really, really important, and it doesn't come naturally. The manifesting generator is something that--

[01:49:42] Luke: That's funny because as you're talking, I'm thinking about my dynamic with Alyson, and I don't have the need to have anyone inform me of anything. I just like make up life in milliseconds as I go. And Alyson values being informed. So it's something I've had to entrain myself to do out of love for her to help her feel more safe and comfortable.

[01:50:08] And she wants to know what's going on. It's funny because I noticed that with my dad and his wife. We'd be out somewhere, we'd go fishing or whatever. We're up in the mountains, and he'd like check in with his wife all the time. And I'd be like, man, she's got you on a short leash, huh? In my immature perspective of that.

[01:50:26] And then as I got in the relationship with Alyson, I find myself doing the same thing, but it's not because I'm beholden to her. It's because I've just observed and built the awareness that she feels really comfortable when she knows where I am and what I'm doing and that I'm safe. So it's like now I actually really enjoy it. I'd be out somewhere and I always text her when I arrive and when I'm on my way home. I don't need that.

[01:50:51] Emma: Yeah.

[01:50:52] Luke: But she seems to, and it's helpful in the relationship.

[01:50:56] Emma:100%.

[01:50:57] Luke: That came to mind.

[01:50:57] Emma: And it's that piece of like, it allows the energy to flow. I often use the example of my ex-husband. I would ask him something, and he'd be there on his phone. And I'm literally wanting to crawl out of my skin. Like, just tell me to wait or something, like just something, just something. And my son from across the room would be like, for God's sake, dad, say something. And he'd just look at me, have no idea I'd even spoken. And he's a projector. So again, informing, he didn't need it. It wasn't something that he necessarily needed.

[01:51:35] Luke: Oh my God, you just reminded me of an epic book that was written by two Australians. I think they have a series of them, but the first one and the main one is called Why Men Don't Listen and Why Women Can't Read Maps. And it's a really fun and super helpful book about the fundamental difference in brain function between males and females.

[01:51:57] And it talks about this study in that book wherein men are clinically deaf. They're literally deaf when we're engaged in a task. And just evolutionarily, we've been wired to be single focused. And it explains. There's a million memes about this, the situation you described where if I'm reading a book or on the computer, wife says something, I'm literally deaf.

[01:52:27] I literally can't hear her. This doesn't happen with us, but let's just say as an example, woman feels disrespected or unloved because he's not listening. He literally can't listen until he stops doing what he's doing and makes space to listen. Now he's doing listening.

[01:52:50] Emma: Yeah.

[01:52:51] Luke: And then if he was doing listening, like I'm doing listening to you when you speak today, if something was happening over there, I'm deaf to that. It's not that I don't care about that. It's just I've been wired to hunt and do the things that caveman me would have done so many generations of DNA back in history. I highly recommend the book. We'll put that in the show notes.

[01:53:12] Emma: Yeah. I've definitely heard of it. I don't think I've read it.

[01:53:13] Luke: Yeah. I think it was an Aussie couple. I believe their last name was Allan. And they're relationship coaches and teachers and stuff. And that freaking book, that combined with interviewing John Gray a number of times, I think helped me be a better partner, a better husband, and just understanding some of those fundamental differences.

[01:53:39] And also there's another piece they speak to around females' brains having a much easier time with hemispheric synchronization. They actually have a physically bigger, I think it's called the corpus callosum. I always get colostrum mixed up with callosum, but that's the bridge between the hemispheres.

[01:54:02] And women's are physically bigger, hence evolution of going out and picking berries and holding a baby, nursing and looking out for predators and the emotional intelligence of keeping the cohesion between the tribe members. So what's going on? Hence, women's tendency to gossip a bit more than men. And we judge that, but it's an evolutionary skill.

[01:54:26] Emma: It's so cool. Isn't it?

[01:54:26] Luke: Yeah. So that was another thing in that book I go, oh. That's because when I used to work as a fashion stylist, I was one of maybe three heterosexual men in the entire industry in Hollywood at least that I was aware of. And I would just get so frustrated because when I worked with women, they were so much better at so much of the job because part of it is logistics and logic and all that.

[01:54:49] And part of it is just wild creativity and intuition and colors and shapes and all that. And I had such a hard time switching between those two skill sets that were needed. And all of my gay male friends were great at it too. And I'm like, but you don't have a female brain. How are you good at it?

[01:55:09] And I think it's that hemispheric switching capacity that some of us have. And it explains why women are really great at multitasking and spin a bunch of plates at once and don't seem to be bothered by it. And again, like so many things I'm grossly generalizing. We're all unique, but there are some fundamental anatomical attributes that we have in terms of our brain function.

[01:55:35] Emma: Absolutely. Isn't it cool that they're actually researching the female brain now?

[01:55:38] Luke: Yeah, finally. But this is really good information for people that want to learn how to relate with people of the opposite gender because there's nurture and there's nature. But there are fundamental things in our nature that unless we come to understand these things, make getting along much more difficult.

[01:56:01] Emma: Yeah. Well, we see the world as we are, not as it is.

[01:56:04] Luke: Right. Yeah, exactly.

[01:56:06] Emma: At the end of the day, from a behavioral perspective, we're all always on the assumption that we know what someone's thinking, feeling, knowing, da da da, but we don't. It's just our map of the world, how we put the world together. One of the things that I love about human design and talking about relationships or even the golden rule-- so we have this golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated.

[01:56:35] And for me, the thing I love about human design is it takes it that step further, treat others as they're designed to be treated. Because then you're not raising your children the way you want to be raised. Or you're not treating your partner the way you want to be treated. You're actually understanding them at a deeper level.

[01:56:55] Luke: It's like the love languages too.

[01:56:57] Emma: Exactly. But it's even more intense. My ex, he had this channel of struggle. You also have the channel of struggle, but you've found meaning. Again, the language in human design can be negative. And I have the gate of struggle, but yet he has the whole channel, which means it's always switched on going back and forward. And what I would notice is that when I would walk into his aura or just generally around him, there would be this fighty energy.

[01:57:28] Now, Alyson also has the same gate that I'm talking about. It's called the gate of the fighter. I'm pretty sure by memory it's her personality sun, and it's the warrior of light in its highest expression.

[01:57:41] Luke: I have her chart here. I'll show it to you in a few minutes.

[01:57:42] Emma: Yeah. And so what would happen is I'm like, I'm a pretty peaceful human. In my design, peace comes up, I don't know how many times, peace, patience, how I make decisions. The significant theme is peace, all of these things. Yet every time I was around my husband or he was around people, there was this bickering, all this fighty energy. And it's because I would be taking in his energy and amplifying it.

[01:58:11] And one day it occurred to me, I'm like, oh, it's not my fight. This is just his energy. And this is where human design, because I do it-- I've created a thing called transformational human design, where I put all the behavioral, all the identity piece, because we can't get away from the ego, the identity, the subconscious mind. I think I heard someone say the best we're ever going to do is about 85% unconscious.

[01:58:38] So we need to know how to program the unconscious mind and our behavior. And in understanding my husband's energy, then what I would do is I would map my behavior. So what was happening is that I would get into that energy. And if something irritated me, I would bicker. Or if he was bickering about something, I'd be drawn in. And I'd be like, I'm not interested in bickering. I'm much more interested in sorting it out.

[01:59:06] And then I realized that it's his energy. So then I just came up with this almost like a mantra that when I felt the energy, I'd be like, oh, that's not mine. It's his. So I would not take on that energy, feel it in my body, then create a belief system around it because of something that I was feeling.

[01:59:27] Instead, I could just acknowledge that it wasn't my energy and then the energy will continue to move through you. Now, this energy, especially in Alyson's example, the high expression of this energy is they fight for what matters. They fight for something external of themselves or their closest relationships.

[01:59:48] They fight for the things that the heart wants. And I think it's fascinating. So I'm pretty sure the shaman sits in there as well. So everything was like, yes, there it is. So all of these energies, there is a shadow expression, but once we move through, like your gate of struggle is really about the deeper meanings of life.

[02:00:09] And once you're connected to that, then you have this question. Does this have meaning for me? It's something that can be a real north star for you, because if it doesn't have meaning for you, maybe you do find you're sitting around having a conversation and judgment comes up. Hang on a second. Does this have meaning for me? Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't.

[02:00:30] Luke: It's so true. I place a lot of value on transmutation. It's something that I've trained, obviously. It didn't just come to me naturally.

[02:00:42] Emma: Yeah, you got to build the muscle.

[02:00:42] Luke: Yeah. But seeing adversity over time, getting to a place where adversity inherently represents a gift of expansion and understanding, where it used to be much time would have to pass and I could look back and go, oh, I see that thing 10 years ago that seemed horrific. Oh, now I see the lessons in it. It's fun to be able to actually live life and be in the moment of struggle and go, I don't know what it is quite yet, but there's something in here for me.

[02:01:18] It's like life right now is happening for me, not to me. And that's very liberating to be able to situate your attitude in that position. It doesn't mean that it isn't uncomfortable a lot of the time, but still, it doesn't feel like life is against you. It's like, okay, it feels like it's against me right now, and all appearances would support that perspective, but there's an inner wisdom and a knowing based on so many past experiences that have proven themselves to have meaning, to have value if one has been able to persevere through that and have some time for introspection to process them and go, oh, wow. I see why this thing blew up in my face. It's because there was something immensely valuable in that experience. I'm pretty sure I took you off the rails of the five of the five K, yeah.

[02:02:14] Emma: That's all good. Manifesting generators is still up. I'll get to that. Just quickly, what's really cool about everything you were just saying is the gift of the 28. So all of your energy filters out through this 28, and the gift is to trust life, which is basically what you just said. So it doesn't matter what my mind or my ego sees, my heart trusts life.

[02:02:33] Even if there's a challenge, my heart trusts life. That is the higher expression of the energy. Let's go back to manifesting generators, hybrid, informing. They're also here to respond like generators. So do you have energy for it or not? Really, really important. The other thing that really set me free is manifesting generators are a non linear being.

[02:02:57] What does that mean? It means that people that are going to be multi passionate, they might excel in more than one thing. And we're conditioned at school. When I was at school, in secondary school, we had careers advisors, and they were trying to get me to pick something, one thing to do for the rest of my life. And I was like, I would rather poke myself in the eye. I am not picking one thing.

[02:03:17] Luke: That sounds horrible.

[02:03:18] Emma: No, thank you. And I've actually been-- I had a very successful advertising career. I've been a chef. I've run an equestrian property, professional equestrian competitor. I've had a nanny agency, and then I've had my coaching business. And for a manifesting generator, that's really normal. Yet our conditioning says, nah, you have to find one thing and stick to it.

[02:03:45] Luke: Our conditioning would say in some cases that you failed at those other ventures, right?

[02:03:51] Emma: 100%. And I used to think that too. I'm a line 3, and my mantra for the line 3s is you're either winning or learning. There is no failure because there's a lot of falling down as a line 3, a lot of making mistakes. Because we're actually the ones that call out what's not working in the world. I'm going to be the one that goes, yeah, no, I've tried it three different ways. It ain't working.

[02:04:14] Luke: You're willing to go down a dead end road to then tell people, eh, turn left.

[02:04:19] Emma: Yeah, exactly. Learn from a line 3 because they're going to give you the quickest possible road. And manifesting generators are here really to demonstrate human potential. They're the ones that tend to walk into a room with a big energy. They will sometimes seem a little bit superhuman with all the things that they can do and achieve and rah, rah, rah.

[02:04:39] And they also will tend to be-- the word I like to use is they look a little bit messy because they jump ahead and they take what they need. They don't cross all the t's and dot all the i's, but everything comes together.

[02:04:51] Luke: They probably make great CEOs.

[02:04:52] Emma: They do. But all types do. Again, I wouldn't want to put anyone into a box, but they do. Then we have projectors. So projectors are about 14% of the global population. Manifesters are 10. Then the generators and manifesting generators make up just over 70%. Then our projectors, they are our wise guides. These are people that can see the nuances of energy and systems. So what that means is they can see when energy is being used well and when it's not being used well.

[02:05:26] They're going to be people that have a great deal of wisdom. They will get obsessed with the things that they love and they will tend to go down the rabbit hole and learn it inside out, back to front. Now, the challenge for the projector is they're on the planet to be seen and recognized. Only, we are not taught to see and recognize wisdom in others.

[02:05:47] In fact, especially with women, we are taught to be quiet, to shut our wisdom down. So what tends to happen is that, especially projectors at school, they're the ones that constantly put their hands up like, I know, I know, I know, I know, and the teacher's like, well, you got to let little Jimmy have a go too.

[02:06:06] But really, let them be seen and acknowledged for the wisdom that lies within them, because if they're not invited in, if their wisdom is not invited in, then they're never properly received. So if you parent a projector child, you want to learn to invite them. Invite them to the dinner table. It's bedtime. Would you like to come and have a story?

[02:06:28] Teach them early to wait for the invitations, because if you don't, then these people will literally turn themselves inside out to be seen and acknowledged and often in really unresourceful ways that end up with them in burnout. So if you have a projector in your life or you're a projector, you must wait for an invitation.

[02:06:51] What does that mean? Someone recognizing you and your wisdom. And when they recognize that it's like they will just pop you on a little pedestal like Yoda and think that you are everything. But you must first get that invitation. Again, when people first come to human design, they're like, what? I'm not going to sit around in my hands.

[02:07:11] No, no, no, no. Go obsess about the thing that you love to do. Tell all your friends, anyone who will listen, share what you're doing. Because when you're fully immersed in the things that you love, the invitations are going to come. And once people recognize you as the guide that you are, then you have this ability to see the nuances in systems, in energy, how people can improve things, what they should do more of, what they should do less of.

[02:07:37] And once people recognize that in you, then they will not be letting you go. So that's projectors. So manifesters, projectors, and reflectors that I'm just about to get into, none of them are designed for a 9 to 5 job. They're not designed for consistent energy. So if you're a non-sacral being that we call those three, it's super important that you create a life where you can rest as much as you need to rest because you just don't have that consistent energy. And then we have reflectors, and they're only 1% of the global population.

[02:08:13] Luke: Are these statistics based on all the people that have gotten assessments?

[02:08:19] Emma: No, these are still-- and it's interesting you ask. One of the things I'd love to do is get to a point where we can start funding some really cool research. Because the only research, the numbers, all of that sort of stuff is still with all the things that Ra did at Jovian. And for me personally, in my experience, I know how energy works, so I'm going to tend to attract more people like me than not.

[02:08:44] Statistically speaking, I think we've got a whole lot more projectors than we had, and I also think we have more reflectors than we used to have. I feel like the numbers are starting to even out a lot more. But that's just hearsay. That's my community, a reflection of my community. But I suppose as energy goes, I would have mostly MGs if it was not almost statistically more reliable, if that makes

[02:09:11] Luke: Got it. Okay. So reflectors.

[02:09:13] Emma: Yeah, reflectors. These people can see energy on a level that is mind blowing. From a human design perspective, they have all their centers undefined. So they don't have any consistent energy. So what that feels like is they're the kid that one day they want to be a pilot. Then the next day they want to be an astronaut. Then the next day they want to be a doctor. Then the next day they want to be this and that, and it just keeps shifting and changing.

[02:09:41] And that goes all the way through into adulthood. These are people that are going to constantly shift and change their energy. And that's okay. But again, we don't live in a society that that's okay. So again, if you're raising a reflector or you're a reflector yourself, the key is to take time. Take time. Because what you're actually doing is taking in, amplifying and reflecting back the energy of all the people, places, and opportunities that you're around.

[02:10:07] So it feels like, if a reflector sits here with you, they'll be like, I want to do what Luke does. If they sat with me, they'd be like, oh my God, I want to do what Emma does. But if they wait, and we talk about 28 days because they have an alignment to the moon-- It doesn't have to be 28 days, but we recommend that you give it a whole moon cycle for any big decisions, then you're going to notice that all of a sudden you just make decisions that feel great for you.

[02:10:32] Now, the thing about reflectors is they are showing us the truth. So if you have a reflector in your life, whatever really triggers you, that really is you. It's not perception. It's projection. They are literally reflecting back.

[02:10:46] So one of the things that I often have a giggle about is I do a lot of work around reflectors because I think there's some really fluffy, unresourceful, crappy stuff about reflectors. Because the truth is, is how do we really know what they're like, unless we're sitting down and we're getting super curious and we're asking questions as opposed to making assumptions.

[02:11:07] Because most of the time we're just seeing ourselves. And for me personally, the reflectors in my life, they're very powerful. They're very enthusiastic, da da da. And they're probably a lot of the traits that I am. So the way that I see a reflector versus someone who's disempowered sees a reflector, those are going to change.

[02:11:29] So I think that the big thing for reflectors is just teaching those people around you to get super curious about them because otherwise they can feel really misunderstood. They can feel like they're constantly changing their mind all the time. They can feel like there's no consistency.

[02:11:48] They can feel codependent because the consistency comes from their partner. So as a reflector, you're a super, super powerful person at reading energy, absolutely brilliant at it. But just slow down, take time, and pay attention to the people, the places, and opportunities that make you feel good, because that's your ultimate guide.

[02:12:10] Luke: Excellent. How does one's tendency towards spontaneity or planning play out from the human design perspective?

[02:12:21] Emma: Yeah, really good question. So it's going to differ from each design. So my design, your design, it's going to tend more to something that happens over time, because our decisions are made over time. Someone who let's say has a splenic authority, that's going to be more in the moment.

[02:12:41] When it comes to planning, and it's really interesting because we've just had this discussion-- so for me, building my business, I resisted structure so much in business. And that's what they sell in success. Well, to have success, you have to build structure. And what's that other saying?

[02:12:59] If you don't plan, then you plan to fail or something like that. And these things used to just irritate me so much because no matter how much I tried to do these things, it just wouldn't feel correct for me. Now, what I've discovered over the years in my own personal experience and with all the people I've worked with, is that, yes, we do need structure. Yes, we do need planning. Yes, we do need spontaneous things to show up in our lives.

[02:13:29] However, sometimes, in my case, it means a completely different person. So the structures in my business when I hired Taylor, I'm still apologizing years later for the things that she had to clear up, because I was very 3/5, my profile. I was just experimenting like, does this work? Does this work? Does this work? How about that? And for her, she's a 5/1, so she has a line 1.

[02:13:57] So she loves the details, loves the structures, does all the things. So that came almost through another person. And when it comes to things like spontaneity, again, it's going to come back to your authority. It's going to come back to the definition that lies within you. Yeah, of course, we can have the spontaneous last minute things, but honestly, if you did the experiment, you'd probably be better with something that is-- let's say Alyson said to you, I've got a present for you, and it means going away for the weekend.

[02:14:29] In that moment, you could feel any which way, and you're not going to have clarity until the next day. So if you have an emotional authority in your life, you probably don't want to be overly spontaneous with that person because they're not going to know how they're feeling in that moment. In fact, they're probably going to feel 75 different things in that moment before they just settle on the one.

[02:14:49] Whereas, when you've got a non emotional person, they just know in the moment. So again, in the business, sometimes, because I'm an emotional authority, the structures that we've put in place, the way I make decisions is that we have a meeting on Monday, which is the green light, so everything that we need to focus on, and then everything needs to have a decision, red light, by Friday.

[02:15:10] So my emotional authority has time, but then there's still the structures to manage that. Because otherwise, literally, I could just be undecided for God knows how long. So that was not working. And then the deeper we go within the chart-- I have the gate 5, which is all about routine.

[02:15:30] So for me, I wake up every day, meditate. I journal. I exercise. I walk my dogs. I have this kind of fixed routine, but that's because it's deeper within my chart. It's more the refined details that are deeper in my chart.

[02:15:48] Luke: Excellent. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you to indulge me in helping to understand Alyson a bit more if I can find my notes here. So I have her chart here. Shout out to our friend Kita who sent me both of our charts side by side. And I know you worked with Alyson and we were a guest on her Ceremony Circle podcast.

[02:16:15] And by the way, she loved that. I remember afterwards like, oh my God, she was amazing. This is so cool. You got to have her on. And I think when the invite from your team came in, I was like, was that the woman you really love? Yeah, yeah. You got to do it. Thank you to Alyson.

[02:16:30] Emma: Yeah. She's epic.

[02:16:31] Luke: But what I'm curious about, aside from just my own selfish desire to understand my lady and our dynamic is this idea around compatibility and helping people listening to understand why they have varying degrees of compatibility, especially in their romantic relationships, right?

[02:16:53] Because we might meet someone. We might have incredible chemistry or have shared values or things in common. Our life goals and plans might be aligned. And then we take a trip together, move in together, and it's like, holy shit, this is not going to work, right? Because you're either too much the same or you're too different.

[02:17:12] And so I'm curious because the relationship I have with Alyson is so simpatico and beautiful and just so amazing the vast majority of the time. We just have a really good groove and a good rhythm in our life. Don't run into too many meaningful problems and things like that. So my curiosity is around the compatibility in romantic partnerships and maybe what human design types mesh well and ones that don't and whatever you can tell me about her that will help me understand her better.

[02:17:51] Emma: So the first thing, one of the things I want to just kick off with is I'm really big on not saying, like, I don't believe that certain types go best with certain types. And there's a number of apps out there that do it. And from a behavioral perspective, I think it's really dangerous.

[02:18:06] And I'll go into the human design part of it, but a lot of the simpatico is that you guys have healed the trauma because at the end of the day, most relationships and those of us that get into relationships young, we are trauma bonding. So we're just getting into a relationship with someone that matches the trauma of our parents.

[02:18:30] Luke: I'm very familiar with that.

[02:18:31] Emma: Yeah, right? And again, I want to put the power back in your hands. I think a lot of the reason why you have the relationship that you have is because you've both become whole. You've dealt with the trauma. So you're not subconsciously either projecting or expecting the other person to fix you, solve you, make you whole. You're coming to that relationship very differently to most people in relationship.

[02:18:57] So I think that first and foremost, it's to give you two credit for the work that you've done. It's not like your human design just matches. And there's probably a lot of that in here. But it's more because as individuals, you've done the work to make you whole. Because most of the time in relationships, even attraction, so much of attraction is just you're attracted to something that you don't have.

[02:19:20] It's like your brain goes, there's a hole in me that I don't have. So I'm attracted to that human. And once you fill that hole, you heal that, that person's not attractive anymore. So I think there's a lot of that as well that I want to say first, because I think all types can work well together.

[02:19:38] However, with human design, I think one of the beauties is that it can give us some really specific areas to look at in the chart of what perhaps the significant themes of our relationship are going to be. So specifically for you, with the two of you, when your charts go together, and we call that a connection chart, you have an undefined G center.

[02:20:07] You have an undefined, it's like direction, identity, and higher self love. It's like the unconditional love. So what does that mean? It means that that's going to be an area of growth in your relationship. But looking at this and saying what I've said, is that both of you bought almost a healed heart to the relationship.

[02:20:33] Now that's not to say that there aren't little bits and pieces. And for both of you, your Achilles heel will be potentially lovability. If you go to the shadow, if you feel something within the relationship, it's probably going to be that you feel unlovable or something around that. Because that's the most significant area of growth in your relationship. Does that feel like it resonates?

[02:21:01] Luke: Yeah, totally. And to your former point, the way Alyson and I frame that in some of the work we do together around relationships is the division between karmic relationships and dharmic relationships. I think many of us can identify with the phenomenon of meeting someone and it just feels so right and it ends up being a painful and tragic experience and later you realize that wasn't that it was so right. It was just so familiar. There was the lock and the key fit of unaddressed traumas. It's actually a beautiful gift too in my experience.

[02:21:46] I don't regret any of my painful relationships because they all brought me face to face with those things in myself that really were yearning to be addressed. And yeah, to your point also, and of course things come up and it's like, I don't know if your heart is ever totally healed.

[02:22:07] There's patterning that presents itself. It's just like the degree with which you're identified with it or that it motivates you or how much of it is still present that's manifesting as behavioral patterns and things like that. But this is for sure the first relationship I've had where it's more about the experience of expansion into a future together than it is about it continually bringing up things from the past that are unhealed and need to be addressed.

[02:22:39] That happens here and there, but that's usually somewhat superficial and is pretty easy to overcome. And that's a really beautiful experience to have of like, wow, what can we create in the world together versus regurgitating the shit from the past that keeps coming up again. It's exhausting. But then also, I had to go through those karmic relationships in order to be able to be in enough pain at times to really work on myself.

[02:23:10] Emma: Well, that's true. We're human. Pain is the thing that motivates us more than the pleasure.

[02:23:15] Luke: Yeah. So, anywho, thank you for that insight.

[02:23:18] Emma: And I love what you just said as well, because this area of growth for you is also about direction. You just said, it's more about the moving forward and what can we create. Yes, this is a huge growth area for you. So you get to define what love is.

[02:23:35] You get to define what direction you want to go in as opposed to if one of you had a defined G centre, then the other one would probably just slide right into that. And that would be the person in the relationship that would set almost the identity of the relationship.

[02:23:51] So for you guys, you have this wide open opportunity, especially because you've done a lot of healing to really be like, we could go anywhere, do anything. And what does love mean to us? Because we get to create exactly that. And with the connection charts, one of the things that-- you talk about that attraction when people are just like, oh my God, I'm just so attracted to that person.

[02:24:19] In human design, we call that your electromagnetics. We have a gate. So if we have a center, if you're looking at a human design, you're going to see a bunch of shapes. And between those two shapes, you see lines. They're called channels. And then on the shapes, you're going to see numbers.

[02:24:36] And that's what we call gates. So an electromagnetic is when one of the partnership has one gate activated. So half the line will be colored in. And the other has the other half of that channel activated. So that channel comes together, and that's literally that feeling of fireworks, and it's when two opposites attract.

[02:24:57] So some of the channels or some of the electromagnetics, when they come together, they can work beautifully together. In fact, one of them, one that you have, it's the 19/49. And the 19/49 is often referred to like, these two people are like in each other's pockets. They love to go everywhere together.

[02:25:17] They like to hang out together. They genuinely just love being in each other's energy. So it tends to be an electromagnetic that comes together really beautifully. So you two have that one together. But some of the other electromagnetics, they can be really fiery. Yes, they can bring in the initial energy.

[02:25:41] However, as soon as that initial attraction has happened, then the opposite. It just irritates. You know that saying it's like, the thing that I fell in love with is now the thing that irritates me the most? It's that's. That's the electromagnetic. So in human design, again, it's that same thing.

[02:25:59] Just feeling in the body. Going back to your authority, or how did this person come into your life? Was it through strategy and authority? Because these are going to be the ways that you don't fall into the trauma bonding, that you don't fall into, well, this is just what my ego, what my unconscious mind feels comfortable with.

[02:26:22] And that's challenging because when you hear like, what do you mean my unconscious mind feels comfortable with abuse? That's really how we get programmed as children. So with human design, one of the big things just when you're getting into relationships, pay attention to your strategy, your authority, and your profile.

[02:26:42] You're 4/1 profile. I'm a 3/5 profile. We have these two numbers. Ra called it the costume of our purpose. I love to think of it as [Inaudible]. It's a thing that's why we do what we do, what people want from us. It's going to be the theme, the significant theme. So when you get into relationship be aware of things like your profile.

[02:27:03] See, both of you have a line 4. So what that means is that you feel safe in safe relationships, but the moment a relationship doesn't feel safe, it's like your whole world has the potential of not feeling safe. So the two of you being in a relationship together and understanding that, that this value, that this relationship isn't just about you and me, it's about the foundation of my life, is what makes me feel safe, then together, you get each other.

[02:27:39] But let's say in a different relationship. Let's say someone like me, my working relationship with Taylor. I'm a three, so I'm always making a mess. I'm always doing lots of different things, where she's a one. So for her, it's details. It's like getting all the t's crossed and the i's dotted. So we don't have an expectation of each other to be something that we're not. So this is the same. This is how human design can be really helpful, because it removes these expectations that we put on our partners, because we understand them more as they are. Does that make sense?

[02:28:15] Luke: 100%. Yeah, rings very true.

[02:28:20] Emma: So with Alyson, she has the 38/39. So these are both warrior energy. So this is a person who has a lot of power within them. And often, this in a woman can be intimidating to men. So you just holding space for her being 100% the warrior that she is, because it's fundamental and a lot of her energy. That in itself is super powerful.

[02:28:55] Luke: I find that inspiring.

[02:28:59] Emma: Yeah.

[02:28:59] Luke: It's cool.

[02:29:01] Emma: Because you've healed the part of you that the patriarchy taught you that says that powerful women are scary or powerful women are bad. At some level, you've healed that within you. So then you can be like, yeah, I can see the beauty in her. That's the work that you've already done.

[02:29:16] Luke: Hmm. Cool.

[02:29:16] Emma: Makes sense?

[02:29:17] Luke: Yeah.

[02:29:18] Emma: The other thing that I think is really interesting, and this could be an area where, over time, this has played out. So one of the areas we can look at in our design is our environment. So this is where we're going to thrive, and it's a physical environment thing. And you're actually a caves person.

[02:29:41] So what a caves person is, is this is someone who needs to be able to control, and I do mean control in a resourceful way, who comes in and out of their space, who comes in and out of the door. This is a person who doesn't feel safe unless they have that control. So their house is their sanctuary.

[02:30:03] They need to be able to go, yeah, no, that person's not coming in. Yes, that person can come in. And in your case, even sometimes to the tendency of like, they might've been allowed to come in before, but they're not allowed to come in now.

[02:30:15] Luke: It's funny you mentioned that because that is true, but that is dramatically true in Alyson's case, even more so than mine.

[02:30:26] Emma: Yeah. And so what's really interesting--

[02:30:28] Luke: In fact, we joke about it all the time because when we bought this house and put a lot of care and effort into renovating it and making it our own and making it our home, we both envisioned, oh, we're going to have dinner parties all the time. We've got the pool. It's going to be like a hub in the community. And it's just going to be the social gathering spot. We never have people over.

[02:30:49] Yesterday, Alyson had some girlfriends over for a swim and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. I was so happy to see them. They're looking at me like, dude, what's the big deal? I'm like, this is so cool. There's people here. And they're thinking, what are you nuts? Doesn't this happen all the time? I don't know if we've ever had five or six women over for a pool party with Alyson on a random Wednesday. That's very true, yeah.

[02:31:08] Emma: Because it's the line four in both of you.

[02:31:12] Luke: It sounded good in theory.

[02:31:14] Emma: You two love relationships, but just not in your space.

[02:31:16] Luke: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[02:31:18] Emma: So that's something as a couple that's really powerful. For me, when I was dealing with my depression and panic disorder, I lived with my family in this small country town, and I can't tell you how boring it was. It was the most boring place on earth. If I had to see another flannelette shirt and pair of Blundstone boots, I was literally going to punch someone.

[02:31:42] And my environment, I had no idea about human design back then, and I'm a values person. So I'm a person who needs to have my finger on the pulse.

[02:31:49] I need to know what's going on in the world. I don't want to live in the thick of it, but I need to know what's going on in the world. So I look back, and we moved from there to Sydney in this suburb called Balmain that was so close to the center of Sydney that when we went into lockdown for COVID, we were allowed to go five kilometers on our bike.

[02:32:12] That's what we're allowed to do for exercise. We rode, my family, husband at the time, two boys, we rode our BMX bikes to the rocks to the Sydney Opera House, and we rode our bikes down the stairs of the Sydney Opera House. We have videos of this. And not a soul in sight. Epic experience. So there's the silver lining for COVID.

[02:32:33] But the point is the moment I moved into an environment where I felt like I was like in a country town, the nickname for the place was the Insula Peninsula, because we all just kept to ourselves. It was just a big country town. Everybody knew everybody. But we were right in the thick of it. So I knew what was going on in the world, but I didn't have to be a part of it. That's also where my mental health really started to improve. So environment can have a really big impact on our wellbeing as well.

[02:33:09] Luke: Would that also explain why some of us are much more affected by the aesthetics and ambiance and beauty present or lack thereof?

[02:33:25] Emma: 100%.

[02:33:31] Luke: I literally can't be happy if I'm in an ugly environment. I don't feel right. And I've been judgmental of myself at times because I feel like, I don't know, almost, say like traveling and staying at a different class of hotel. I thought, wow, am I really shallow and materialistic because it has to be really nice? I'm learning about myself that it's not. It's really just a matter of, I don't know, it's the feeling you get when you walk in a beautiful cathedral versus if you walk into a gas station in the middle of Utah or something, a truck stop.

[02:34:03] There's a different energy, a different feeling. Things look different. There's more care and effort put into the beautification of a space, the architecture, decor, all that thing. I find that it really, really affects me. It's about which I am not thrilled to have that quality because it's much more expensive to live if you're that way.

[02:34:28] It's like, oh God, why can't I just feel okay in a crappy Airbnb. It's like the classic thing where you're buying a piece of furniture online or picking an Airbnb and you're like, oh, that's the one. And then you organize it by price and it's like, of course. That's the most expensive one. God damn it.

[02:34:48] Emma: Yeah. So in human design, yes, that absolutely shows up in a bunch of different ways. It can show up specifically in our human design where we have a thing called our tone and it would be taste in that, but for you specifically, it's actually your defined spleen.

[02:35:05] So the defined spleen has a lot to do with style. So it's about finding the style that feels good to you. Interestingly, you also have the gate 1, and the gate 1 is the gate of the creative. It's the divine masculine. It's also like often there is music. The singer sits in there. It's about using your voice as well.

[02:35:27] So yeah, but I think that the style piece, because the other thing with you is probably the aesthetics that you might like, you might be drawn to it. They couldn't be messy. They have to be a simplistic.

[02:35:42] Luke: Oh God, no. Oh God, yeah.

[02:35:43] Emma: Really just looking at like, that is great. But if it had a bunch of crystals down the bottom, you'd be like, whoa, one thing at a time, one thing at a time.

[02:35:52] Luke: That would drive me nuts.

[02:35:53] Emma: Yeah.

[02:35:56] Luke: When things are cluttered, I can barely function. I can't focus on anything. It's just too much noise in the periphery. It's extremely irritating.

[02:36:07] Emma: And ultimately, all of this, and I think it's really interesting, you just using the experiment, like, why couldn't I just go for the cheaper Airbnb? I think the biggest thing for me with human design is it's the permission slip. It's the permissions. If I had the same thing as a kid, my dad would say, God, you've got such expensive taste.

[02:36:24] So what did I do? I shut it down. Whereas for me, I've got a defined will center, and defined will centers want quality over quantity. They're the ones that will pay more for something. They're the ones that have the especially nice version of whatever the thing is. And I made myself so wrong for that for so long.

[02:36:46] And ultimately, human design is just this permission slip. I've sat in front of thousands of people now, and I've never had anyone go, yeah, that's not me. I've just had people go, wow, you've just given me a permission slip to be myself. And that's what human design is. It shouldn't be telling you something new.

[02:37:07] It should be setting you free. It should be letting you actually be the version of you that you came in to be. I'm messy, and I have an emotional authority, and I run a community where I might start teaching one topic. One time I started teaching one topic in human design, and then all of a sudden just had no energy for it.

[02:37:31] My mind is like, well, you can't quit. You've promised. You have to see it all the way through. And I said to my community, I said, look, I'm going to be really honest with you. I don't have energy for this topic in human design anymore. I really have a lot of energy for this topic.

[02:37:49] If you guys really want me to see it through, I'll see it through, but just let me know. And literally all of them were like, thank you. Let's go with what you've got energy for. And later on, I got so much feedback of like, thank you so much for giving me permission to go, look, honestly, I don't have energy for this anymore.

[02:38:07] Now, the caveat to that, and it's something that I teach a lot, is we have to understand the difference between being out of our comfort zone and being out of alignment. Because sometimes we're going to commit to something and then all of a sudden think that we feel like we're not in alignment with it anymore, but it's just that we're scared or afraid or something.

[02:38:24] So we have to understand the difference between being out of alignment and being out of our comfort zone. But once we start to get that, my ego cannot believe how easy it's been because my ego has fought everything. Stop doing that and move to that. You can't build a business that way.

[02:38:43] I've built a very successful business by just being breaking all the rules, by doing things the way that they're aligned to me, to my values, creating peace. I had such a battle in my business. When I created my community, HDX is like our membership because I didn't want to do all the teaching.

[02:39:07] I wanted to invite all these other teachers in. And I've always been trained, you have to be the one answer. You have to have the solution for everything. And I'm like, oh, that just doesn't feel right for me. So I would start inviting in all of these other teachers. And of course, my community would go and spend money with all of these other teachers.

[02:39:24] And to be honest, I think it's one of the greatest things that's grown my business. And in my design, there's a certain area I've got a line for that's all about culture. So going in and out of other people's networks. And I was like, oh God. Because my brain, my mind, my conditioning was telling me, no, don't do this.

[02:39:42] This is a bad idea. But my heart and my authority, they're like, this is going to be a really good idea for you. So at the end of the day, that's the thing for me. Whether it's in relationship with another person, getting to know them at their authentic level, you're just knowing that you married a warrior. This is this energy.

[02:40:01] She's going to be a powerful force of nature. But just knowing that, great. That's who she's here to be. It gives you permission to treat her that way and gives her permission to be that way. So ultimately, I think that's the beauty of human design. Let's just give each other full permission to be who we came in here to be.

[02:40:20] That's going to be perfectly imperfect. Don't get me wrong. There's still lessons and challenges and shadows and gifts, but in my opinion, the whole goal of being human is to be the most authentic version of you and to love, trust, and accept that version of you.

[02:40:39] Luke: Epic. I just remembered the author's name, the Aussies. I'm pretty sure it's Allan and Barbara Pese, P-E-S- E. Jarrod will look it up and put it in the show notes. It popped in my head when you said--

[02:40:54] Emma: I know the title. I have to read it now.

[02:40:55] Luke: It popped in my head when you said-- yeah, I was thinking about bringing other experts in. I was like, experts? Ding. And their name popped up.

[02:41:01] Emma: Yeah, that would happen because you have mental definition. You've got mental definition. You actually have this channel. This is really cool as well. You've got your Ajna defined, which is this center that sits up here above the throat, and they're connected.

[02:41:23] And they're connected through this channel, the 23/43, and it's called Genius to Freak. And this energy-- and it's interesting because I interviewed Dave Asprey not long ago, and he has this same channel. And what it's all about is that in your head, you're this absolute genius.

[02:41:39] You can pull together all these things, complicated information, pull insights just out of the blue, all these things, put it together. And if you take your time to formulate that before sharing it with everyone, then you're the freaking genius. They're like, how did you put those things together?

[02:41:59] That's incredible. The creative rebel sits in there, so it's the one that wants to break all the rules and do things differently. But if you just like, oh my God, I'm just thinking about this thing. It's amazing. And you try and get out of your mouth, people are like, sorry, freak. It's that kind of energy. Does that resonate with you at all?

[02:42:17] Luke: Yeah. Absolutely. So interesting. What a fun conversation. I'm so glad we're able to allow this space today. I got one more question for you. Oh, actually, two more questions. This whole system that you're describing, all these different numbers and names and all this intricate business was all downloaded to Homie?

[02:42:45] Emma: Yes.

[02:42:46] Luke: That's crazy. This sounds like it was a 40-year unraveling and development of a model. It's crazy. You think about someone like Joe Dispenza, it's like, wow. Or Gregg Braden you talked about before. These are people that have spent 20, 30, 40 years, Tony Robbins, same thing, creating these models based on new information, additive information. And then distilling that down.

[02:43:17] And then it arrives at a place where it maybe evolves more slowly, and it's set. The cake is baked, and they go around and serve the cake. That's so interesting, all of this intricate information. And for people that look at this diagram or go to your site, even just the visual representation of it is quite intricate. That's one of the barriers to entry, I think, for me. It's like, what does this even all mean? It's pretty, but that's fascinating.

[02:43:44] Okay, so that's first question. Second one is, apart from this Ra character, who have been three teachers or teachings that have really impacted your life that you can share with us?

[02:43:55] Emma: Wow. Well, I'm glad you gave me three because I'm a manifesting generator and I need lots. I think Dr. David Hawkins is one that's been a big player. Power Versus Force and Letting Go are two of my all-time favorite books. I think they've been incredibly powerful.

[02:44:16]Bruce Lipton would have to be one as well because when I was at-- I literally thought about taking my life for about seven years, and walking out of that doctor's office and just knowing that I was going to find a way to heal my mental health, to, I didn't know at the time, rewire my brain, my subconscious mind, and finding The Biology of Belief.

[02:44:46] And I got the opportunity to interview him recently, and I said at the end of the podcast, I'm like, thank you so much. You literally saved my life. And he just looked at me and he said, no, I didn't, Emma. You did. And like, wow, yes. That book was so pivotal, understanding-- and again, I think this is why I love human design because this book confirmed what I felt on that day.

[02:45:07] How did I know-- I was sitting in front of the leading specialist? How did I know on some energetic level that little old me fix this, could heal this? And I took the medication for a really short period of time and just instantly knew it was not for me. And again, everyone's journey is different.

[02:45:30] I'm not judging what you do or don't put in your body. But I just knew. And I think The Biology of Belief was the same for me. It was really pivotal, understanding our unconscious mind and how powerful it is. I've got to this place now in that journey that The Biology of Belief created this foundation for me that I live a magical life.

[02:45:50] The things that show up in my life, how did that even happen? And a lot of it has got to do with Bruce Lipton's work and epigenetics and The Biology of Belief and overlaying a lot of-- Power vs. Force blew my mind, that understanding that, this is where we're in the world, all of these powers that be, they're in force, so it cannot sustain. It cannot sustain.

[02:46:24] Okay, great. Then I better be in my power and be ready or be teaching or be sharing or doing all of these things in my power that is sustainable fundamentally, fundamentally. There's so many. I've followed Dr. Joe forever, I've read all the books.

[02:46:44] But you know what? The book that really was the beginning that I don't often hear people talk about is it's called Hardwiring Happiness by a guy, Rick. I can't remember his surname, maybe Alan, PhD. He's Australian, but he's over here in the States, and he's at one of the big universities. And that was the first book I read cover to cover after I left the doctors with the diagnosis.

[02:47:17] And I remember reading this book, and still to this day, I've lent it to so many people and it always comes back and it's got all my notes. And it was just this realization that everything that goes on in my life, this happiness piece that I was so desperate to discover, the power was in my hands.

[02:47:36] It didn't matter what anyone else told me. It didn't matter almost anything anyone else said. It all mattered what I believed, what I believed about me, about my brain. And if I could just put one foot in front of the other and just keep doing this thing, that would be the thing that made the difference.

[02:47:56] And at the end of the day, it was. It took me a number of years, and I had this crazy moment where I was just walking up the street in Balmain in Sydney and it hit me like a lightning bolt. Oh my God, I'm happy. Oh my God, I'm happy. It's just a random Tuesday, like doing nothing, but I had this real memory of, wow, I did it.

[02:48:19] And I think that anything and everything that I've learned and that I would recommend, it's always about empowerment. It's always about the fact that you have no idea how powerful you are. Even those of us that are living an empowered life, I strongly believe there is so much more in there to be tapped, and we just have to choose to focus on our unmet potential and not the distractions, not the distractions that everyone else would have us focus on.

[02:48:50] And I think also just be brave enough to sound a little bit weird a lot of the time. I know I sound a little bit weird a lot of the time, because there is magic that lies in each and every one of us. And the more we access that and share it with the world, the more people are going to wake up.

[02:49:07] The more, Planet Earth, we will finally reunite with her. Planet Earth is going to be sweet. But whether or not she needs to get rid of us in the process is a whole other thing. So yeah, I suppose that's more than three, but hey, I'm a manifesting generator.

[02:49:27] Luke: It's all right. It's funny because most of the time I remember to ask that question. It's just a signature thing in the show that I started and can't find a reason to stop. But sometimes people have a really hard time saying one. They're just really thrown off, super stumped.

[02:49:44] Emma: It's going to be the MGs. I bet you--

[02:49:45] Luke: And sometimes people don't even acknowledge that they're going over three, that they're at number six and they haven't even admitted that they're doing so, so I always find it funny. I think why I keep asking it too, it's always unpredictable and oftentimes someone will say, oh, it's my grandmother or a teacher that I had or my husband or wife, and then sometimes it's the more obvious, Jesus, Buddha, etc. And my favorites are ones that I've never heard of because then we get to put that in the show notes, and it's another thing I get to go learn about. So yeah, I love it.

[02:50:18] Emma: You know what? I want to add one more. I think, honestly, as much as it sounds a bit sucky, I think this podcast. Honestly, this podcast has been a friend of mine when I'm in my deep, dark moments. Some of the teachers that I've heard, a lot of the teachers and the people that I work with now, it's because I heard them here because I trust you.

[02:50:41] I trust the people that you have on. One of the signatures of my community is this high trust. And I think that the person that you choose to be, that's definitely given me permission to be authentic, honest. If I potentially think that something's a bit weird or out there, but my heart really believes in it, I'm like, oh, well, I'm just going to talk about it.

[02:51:04] The brain needs evidence to change. And I think that you and your podcast, and definitely Alyson as well, you guys have given me so much evidence of just be authentically you. Just do it. Just step outside your comfort zone. So yeah, I think I'd genuinely love to add that to the list.

[02:51:23] Luke: That's the best one I've ever heard.

[02:51:24] Emma: Oh, there you go.

[02:51:25] Luke: No, that's great. I appreciate that. And it's fun, I think, to push the limits of what you feel comfortable speaking about publicly, and it's sometimes scary because, I don't know, to me, I just try to forget these mics and cameras are here and I just want to have a really, hopefully, as deep as possible, meaningful interaction with someone and really get to know their essence and share that with the world.

[02:51:56] But sometimes I really do forget, say things, and then I think, dude, you just said that out loud. This is being recorded and tens of thousands of people are going to hear it. But what I've found that's really encouraging and fascinating is that when I step out of the norms and I really go out on a limb talking about one of my points of view or something like that, I'm sure I've lost a lot of people over the years, especially at the beginning of the pandemic and early 2020.

[02:52:31] I was not having it and speaking out against predominant narrative. And I did get some feedback that was negative and people said, I'm done. I'm not having this. And you never like to get disapproval. We all want to be loved and liked and accepted, but what's been interesting to observe over the years is that the further out there I am, meaning the more real and authentic and just unashamed I am, I do lose some people, I'm sure, more than I probably hear about, but the ones that stick around are in. You know what I mean?

[02:53:11] Emma: Yeah, 100%.

[02:53:12] Luke: It's the sense. You're like, man, did he really just say that? And there's probably some people listening sometimes like, man, that gives me permission to say what I think or feel, whether they agree with me or not. But they're just like, holy shit, you can be who you are and be willing to accept whatever consequences might come with that to find that there aren't really any true consequences, only benefits.

[02:53:41] Because of the healing nature of transparency, vulnerability, honesty, it's like a contagion of authenticity. In the beginning, even of this podcast, I heard other people talking about things that were vulnerable on their podcast or YouTube channels. And I would be embarrassed for them. Like, dude, you're talking about this publicly?

[02:54:08] And then I go, well, they're still alive. No one came and put them in a straitjacket and locked them up. So shit, maybe I can do that. And you just keep pushing the boundaries until there are very few boundaries.

[02:54:22] Emma: Yeah. Well, there's nothing to lose. I think we're so conditioned to think that there's something to lose all the time. But really, we're in this world where people just want authenticity. They don't want to have to agree. I don't have to agree with everything that you say, but if I want to really trust somebody, then I want to trust that they're telling me the truth, whether that's my truth or their truth. They just tell me the truth.

[02:54:47] And I think that that's something that more and more-- people feel it. You can use the influence principles to market all you like, but that is just diminishing and diminishing and diminishing. Because if you're not authentic, if people aren't authentic, no one wants what you're selling. Because we are definitely in this moment where we're like, we all know on some level that we've been lied to for a really long time, and we're kind of done with it.

[02:55:16] So yeah, I'm super grateful for your authenticity and all of the people that I really look up to that inspire my work as well, because-- Bruce Lipton, again, one of the most fricking authentic humans you'll ever meet. And I really believe that that is one of our most fundamental keys to success in all areas of your life, is authenticity. And in human design, that's basically your energetic blueprint to your own authenticity.

[02:55:45] Luke: Rad. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[02:55:47] Emma: So welcome. It's been awesome.

[02:55:50] Luke: Cool. That was epic.

[02:55:52] Emma: Thank you.