[00:00:01] Luke: So tell me how you got into the world of healing technologies. I find people like you fascinating. The way your mind works is so interesting to me because you're able to understand physics and things that are lost on me.

[00:00:17] Paul: I don't know. I guess I was just always like that from a child. I was very curious and very observant of nature, I suppose. When I was a kid, I used to do things like build forts out in the woods. We lived in a small town, and there was some trees on the edge of the town. And there was always construction. So there was new construction sites that were building houses and stuff like that.

[00:00:50] And I'd drag a sheet of plywood and a couple of two by fours out into the trees, and I'd build my own little place. And what I found when I sat out there building forts is I was really interested in the plants, even though I didn't know what they were. I'd bring jars out there and-- oh, this is weird.

[00:01:08] Just trying to think of this. I don't know if I've ever told this story, but I collect herbs and dry them out and put them in the jars. And then I'd build a little shelf in there, and I'd make a fireplace, and I'd do all this stuff. It must be some kind of past life thing almost, but it was an intuitive thing to just be interested in herbs.

[00:01:29] And I never really got into herbology till years later, I suppose, after high school, and I went to a talk in Calgary and met one of my mentors, Blaine Andrusek from Calgary, and he was talking on herbs, and I just got into the whole herbology side of things. And I was into herbs from incense and magic and esoteric things like that, but not really understanding them as a medicine.

[00:02:02] And then when I met Blaine, he introduced me to another healer Dr. Terry Willard, who started the Wild Rose Healing, a college of natural healing. And yeah, I started hanging out with all of those guys and really got into herbs and stuff like that. And then I was always also into the electronic side.

[00:02:24] So at the same time, I guess I was working as an electrician when I got out of high school. And I was going and doing all these different jobs. And sometimes we go into a roof and we'd have to rip out an old neon sign. And I was like, whoa, neon sign transformer, high voltage. These are really cool.

[00:02:46] And guys I was working with were like, yeah, we're just going to chuck it. And I'm like, well, I'll take it. And so I got into the high voltage electricity side of things and then married the two ideas of electricity and herbology, I guess, to call it electroherbalism, this concept of using frequencies and high voltage, and plasma, and herbs, and minerals, and things like that and recombining them all together.

[00:03:19] Yeah, I guess from around that time that was the vision I had, is like when I started seeing Tesla and what some of those guys were doing, like William Crooks, they were building plasma tubes and putting things inside of them. And they called it radiant energy, and they would take a mineral or something like that and use it too.

[00:03:41] Because fluorescent minerals and things like that, they fluoresce and give off this glow. So I guess they were looking at different properties of things like that. So I had it in my head from then, oh, yeah, I'm going to start creating all these devices and cross over this whole domain of essential oils and phytonutrients and electricity and make healing things. It was always in my head from when that stuff all got married around that time.

[00:04:13] Luke: I'm picturing you throughout your life in your garage with lightning bolts. Was it that kind of situation, mad scientist, as I imagine?

[00:04:23] Paul: Mad scientist. Yeah.

[00:04:25] Luke: Did you ever have any mishaps where you electrocuted yourself or lit anything on fire or any of those?

[00:04:33] Paul: Surprisingly enough, no. I blew a lot of things up purposely and just for fun and lit things on fire and played a lot with that kind of thing, but never accidentally. I was always so careful. I knew that everything I was playing with could kill you very easily. I was building glass capacitors out of beer bottles, taking an empty case of beer bottles and a big metal wash basin tub and filling it with salt water and filling the capacitors.

[00:05:05] And when you charge those things up, if you put your hand across them, it'd probably blow your hand right off. When I needed more power, I read, oh, this is how Tesla did it. He built these jars, and I was like, okay, we can do that.

[00:05:21] Luke: So you had a healthy respect for the energies you were working with.

[00:05:27] Paul: I was super, super respectful. Yeah. I think that was a part of it. And you could see it and you could feel it. Especially when you get into high tension, high voltage fields, you feel them and sense them. So there's one rule. You keep one hand in your pocket. You never branch your hands across two things, or you'll put a current through your heart, that kind of thing.

[00:05:49] Luke: Before I forget, I'm realizing right now, I'm probably going to jump around a lot because things are coming to me and they're not in my notes, which is a good sign. That means I'm passionate and interested.

[00:06:02] There has been a debate around the idea of earthing and grounding. Well, the debate's really within me because I, I don't know, some years ago heard Clint Ober talking about grounding and earthing. He made this film about it. And it made such sense to me evolutionarily that we've evolved before the invention of rubber and plastic tires and shoes and all this, like we've always been connected to the earth.

[00:06:32] We're sleeping on animal skins and natural fibers and things that are conductive. And then I thought about every living thing on the planet is connected to the ground most of the time with the exception of birds while they're in flight. But everything else is grounded.

[00:06:51] So I thought, oh, I'm going to go barefoot everywhere, get my earth runners, grounding sandals. I started sleeping on grounding sheets and having grounding pads everywhere. And I was very concerned about EMF. And so I would see people using a skin voltage meter and having a really high reading because they're in an electric field, and then they would touch a grounding mat and it would drop to zero.

[00:07:14] And I was like, perfect. You're protecting yourself from electric fields if you're grounded. So I started doing that, and then I interviewed a couple of people that had an understanding of physics and EMFs and things, and two in particular that I interviewed had a pretty compelling case that grounding is great. Earthing is great, with a couple exceptions.

[00:07:36] If you are outside in a populated area, for example, there could be stray currents, currents in the dirt that you're now absorbing or becoming the ground for. And then the other one indoors. And this one's pretty compelling to me, is that say you're using an earthing sheet or an earthing pad on your bed and you haven't shielded the electric fields of 60 Hertz that's coming off your drywall and your outlets and your bedside lamps and radios or whatever. Now you're the conduit. You're the ground.

[00:08:08] And so that's why your skin voltage meter is going to zero, because you're now the ground, which doesn't sound like a great idea. So I've been advising people to not use grounding technology indoors when you're exposed to an electric field, just intuitively. It's not natural like it is walking in the forest barefoot.

[00:08:30] So the bedrooms here are all Faraday shielded, which is another question I have for you in a moment. So there's no electric field, so I sleep with a grounding sheet. But I don't think I would do that if I wasn't blocking the electric field coming off the wall behind the bed. What's your take on earthing and grounding? Give me your expertise on this.

[00:08:51] Paul: Yeah. Absolutely, like you say, I am all for the bare feet, especially the wet dew on the grass and all that kind of thing. And the grounding sheets and the grounding things can be used, but I'd say the biggest mistake that people are making is they're tying them to that ground outlet on your thing.

[00:09:12] And so when you take a meter and you put it on there, it doesn't mean that it's going to zero. It really means that you're at a common to that grounded line. So if the grounded line was really at zero, that'd be fine, which it would, if you had a ground rod going straight into your ground.

[00:09:28] But when you look at the circuit of your house, there's a hot wire, and a ground wire, and the ground wire is there for safety to tie everything back to the ground that is the ground outside of your house where your meter is. But the thing is, they all work like an antenna, and they're all bringing power back and forth.

[00:09:51] So that ground's not really a clean, clean ground. And what I've said to people, if you really want to be able to do a proper grounding blanket, rather than tying to the ground of your power system, run a dedicated line out of your house and down to a dedicated ground rod that you pound in, preferably the farthest away from your meter in your house.

[00:10:15] Because wherever your meter is, underneath that will be the ground plane for your whole house. And that's the way we transmit electricity. We use that ground plane to dump everything that gets to the end of the line to go back into the ground. So it's really quite noisy and quite dirty. So plugging your blanket into there, even though it looks like you go to zero, you're just another antenna.

[00:10:40] So what an antenna is, is it has a ground, and it also has a mast, and whatever that mast is and whatever, wavelength that mass is tuned to, that's what's going to be received by that antenna. So depending on the size of your blanket and things like that, you're going to be pulling in those frequencies with it.

[00:11:03] Luke: That is another concern that I forgot to mention. So say you're living in a densely populated city and you have a grounding sheet on your bed that has silver conductive thread woven into it. Is that not acting as an antenna for RF from cell towers and all this kind of business?

[00:11:23] Paul: Yeah.

[00:11:24] Luke: Just like, you're probably old enough to remember this, when you're a kid and your TV wasn't getting a reception, you'd put a bunch of aluminum foil straight to extend the conductivity of the antenna. And I've thought about that, like, hmm, probably not a good idea. Even to me sleeping on a mattress that has metal springs in it, would that cause the same issue?

[00:11:47] Paul: Yeah. And that's why people had problems with metal spring beds and stuff like that, because without knowing it, the metal springs and they're going to be tuned to whatever particular wavelengths they are in that metal mattress. And it's insulated. A metal mattress would have, those old ones, fabric all around them. So you aren't directly touching the metal itself, but the metal was resonating with that frequency.

[00:12:16] Luke: Okay. So what I did in our bedroom is there's a grounding sheet on the bed, and I ran the wire through the wall and connected it to a copper plate buried in the ground. It's about three feet by one foot of copper plate. And then the wire is connected to that, and it just comes through the wall.

[00:12:39] And then we puttied around it, and you don't even notice it. And then the bedroom is shielded, so there's no RF coming in, or at least very little. And then there's a kill switch on the AC. So when we go to bed, when you want to turn on the lights, you just kill the power in the room. Do you think that's an effective way to do the grounding thing?

[00:13:01] Paul: Yeah. Definitely. So if you're running it, you've isolated your ground. So you're not using the house ground, and you've got your own ground plane buried outside of your window. And then ultimately, yeah, if you can trip that breaker or keep that power circuit off, then you don't have the circuits through your walls all around you, because those are basically radiating the power as well.

[00:13:27] Luke: I learned so much speaking to people like you. I spoke to an EMF expert who came and did the testing on this house-- well, two guys, Brian Hoyer and Ryan Blaser. For those listening, we can put that in the show notes, by the way, for those that want to hear those episodes. The show notes today, it'll be lukestorey.com/theraphi, T-H-E-R-A-P-H-I.

[00:13:50] I forget which one told me this, but when they came and did the testing on the house, they're testing for electric fields, and in a room this size, they were testing electric fields coming off the walls about six feet into the interior of the room. And I thought, well, there's no outlet on that wall. How is there power?

[00:14:10] And he said, well, drywall is made of minerals that are conductive. And so when you have unshielded, what, a Romex, I think it's called or something, no one shields, except in commercial buildings, apparently where they actually shield them with a metal tube.

[00:14:25] He said nobody realizes, but your whole wall is conductive now. It's not just where your outlet is or the light switch. It's like the whole wall lights up basically. And they came in here with meters, and I'm like, you know what? Let's just shield the whole damn house. And also an interesting thing, when you have outlets, there's an outlets here in the floor, and so that was lighting up the whole floor.

[00:14:47] So we shielded the floor and grounded the floor with this mesh. And then another trippy thing is there's can lights in the room below us right here and a fan, and so there's a magnetic field and electric fields coming up through this floor from the room below it.

[00:15:06] It's just crazy how we build houses to be so antithetical to biology. I want to travel to the future when humankind has figured this stuff out. It's like we'll look back on this when we filled our homes with unshielded 60 Hertz and go like, wow, we were really dumb. Do you subscribe to that? Do you think it's--

[00:15:31] Paul: Absolutely. And I must say, just sitting here and sitting downstairs, you can feel it. I can feel it. I'm pretty sensitive to EMF and I think is when you work with it a lot. And I've been exposed to some pretty high fields, and I think when I'm in a really calm place where I can feel the fields are pretty good, it feels really good.

[00:15:53] Fans are a big one too because you've got magnets as well as moving coils. And when you have a motor or a fan or something like that, there's a big EMF behind it. So when you think about if your fan for your dining room table is just below you and you're sitting up here, then you could be sitting right above a really rotating field too.

[00:16:16] Luke: It's crazy what motors do. The sofa that you two were sitting on down there, it's all shielded on the floor, and that whole corner is shielded from electric fields, about six feet high as you still want your cell phone to work in some of the rooms.

[00:16:31] So we did all that and then found the pool equipment right outside that wall makes it crazy magnetic field. It is hardcore. It comes probably four feet into the room.  And I don't know what you'd have to do to shield that. Put lead behind the drywall or something?

[00:16:45] Paul: There's a nickel metal shielding that you can get. It's called mu-metal. And it's pretty good for isolating things like that. It also pulls into magnetic fields too.

[00:17:01] Luke: Oh, interesting. Cool, cool. So back to the grounding and earthing thing, in the final analysis, according to your expertise, would you say that it's generally not a healthy practice if someone is using grounding mats and sheets if they're exposed to an electric field?

[00:17:19] Paul: Yeah, just don't tie into your home grid thinking, especially that ground, that it's going to ground you. Preferably have one outside, and ultimately be able to shut off the circuits wherever you're sleeping, like you were able to do. And you can get a remote switch that you can click, and it'll have a relay, and it'll turn off that circuit.

[00:17:41] Luke: Yeah. That's what we have. It's called the EMF kill switch. I don't know how it works, but electrician installed it in the garage. It's crazy. It has a little RF remote, and our garage is way the hell over there. The bedroom is way down there. I hold that thing up, click, it works every time.

[00:17:56] Paul:  It sends a little signal from there to the receiver and then it trips a relay and then it shuts off the whole thing.

[00:18:02] Luke: Yeah, it's pretty cool. If you rent, then I think something like the BluShield technology, we have those in here too. I'm probably overkill with the EMF. But if you rent, it doesn't really make sense to start altering things like that. But man, I recommend anyone that owns their home. It's not that expensive to start making some subtle changes. Very entry level, have your Wi-Fi on a timer.

[00:18:32] Paul:  Your Wi-Fi. That's the big one too. That's the screaming demon in the room. When you listen to that, if you can get one of those EMF readers that will translate the signals down to audible level and you hold it up to your Wi-Fi, it's just like, sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard. Many of them come with timers now. You can actually program it and say, all right, 9 o'clock at night, it turns off and turn it back on at six o'clock in the morning or something like that.

[00:19:01] Luke: Yeah, we ended up having, which I didn't even know you could do. We hired an AV company to come in here. Shout out to Bonds, one of the few contractors in Austin I would recommend at this point. They wired all the speakers and the Sonos and all that stuff. And I'm like, you guys, just day one, you're going to think I'm nuts, but we don't do Wi-Fi.

[00:19:21] Nothing's Bluetooth. I don't like smart anything because it's not smart. It's idiotic. And they humored me, and they set up in our little AV junction box there in the closet a system wherein you can turn the Wi-Fi on and off with a remote on your phone, basically. It goes into the mainframe using your cell phone to trigger it.

[00:19:45] And it's epic. So we hardly ever have it on. We have it on when we do interviews, so I can sync the iPad and stuff. But it's one of the things, like you said, when people come in this house, they go, wow, it feels so calm in here. I go, yeah, because you're not used to not getting fried with all these signals. It's become so ubiquitous. If you're sensitive, you really feel it when it's absent.

[00:20:07] Next question on this, and this is totally not even what I wanted to talk to you about, but I value your expertise. There's also two schools of thought on the idea of shielding rooms in your home from EMF. As I said, we've done that here with the whole deal. Everything's grounded.

[00:20:27] All the walls and ceiling are all painted with multi layers of shielding paint. The windows have an RF film on them to the point where if you go in the rooms that are shielded with an RF meter, it's totally silent. It's in the green. It's very peaceful. However, you'll still get a little signal in there on your phone, which is interesting. I don't mind that.

[00:20:51] As someone who was damaged by radiation from living under cell towers, a story I'm sure people are sick of hearing, they listen to the show regularly, but it's one of my passions because it really hurt me. I got really sick. I'm still feeling effects of it years later.

[00:21:07] So I thought, you know what, I bought this house. I'm going hardcore. We're going to Faraday all the bedrooms. And so we did that. Now, when I talked to Brandon from BluShield, who also works with you with Theraphi, of course, his thoughts on that is that shielding in that way, that thoroughly, is a bad idea because you're cutting yourself off from these cosmic energies that are actually beneficial.

[00:21:32] So you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. You're blocking all this crazy RF from your neighbor's smart meters and nearby cell towers and stuff, but you're not getting the beneficial effects. But he's maybe the only one that I've heard that's credible and makes a good case why that's a bad idea, where everyone in the building biology world through years of study and working with people that are terminally ill or chronically ill, they'd get much better when they eliminate the EMF-- Dr. Klinger and people like that.

[00:22:02] So I'm still on the side of like, I don't know, I'd still rather shield it. And I think because the cell phone still works a little in there, I don't think I'm blocking the scalar waves and different subtle cosmic energies from getting in the room while you sleep. So what's your take on to shield or not to shield?

[00:22:18] Paul: Yeah. That's the thing about shielding. Shielding is much like building an antenna too. So you can build a Faraday cage, if you call it, but it has to do with the resonant frequencies that you're trying to block too. So there's different wavelengths of Faraday cages, the different mesh sizes.

[00:22:39] So depending on the size of the mesh is going to depend on what you're blocking. So you can't block everything. There's no way of taking everything out, and there's usually, depending on how well you've done it, you can get the target frequencies that you're looking to get, but there's no way you're going to block everything from neutrinos and cosmic waves all the way down to ELFs.

[00:23:04] Because you can only pick a certain band. And usually, I think a lot of people don't understand that too, is like, there's specific sizings for specific frequencies. And you can't always block things because sometimes, if you thought, okay, well, I'll just have it in a metal box, well, that metal box just becomes another intermediary antenna that will resonate and propagate on the inside too. So it's a lot more complicated than just, oh, put it in a metal box and it just doesn't work anymore.

[00:23:37] Luke: Right. I don't know if you're aware of this study they did. I've talked about it before and I'm like, I got to find the link to this, but I don't know if it was in Russia or somewhere, but they did this experiment where they had people live underground for a period of time and they got really, really sick and started to get psychosis essentially from being completely cut off. Truly like Faraday. And it was not good. I think the people started going nuts and got sick really fast. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. But they were in bunkers underground, not in a--

[00:24:12] Paul: Yeah. And that definitely happens.

[00:24:14] Luke: A house shielded with shielding paint.

[00:24:16] Paul: Even in that biodome, you remember they built that big biodome and they thought, well, we'll grow all our own food, have everything that we need in there. People get crazy when they get into a confined situation like that. So whether it's partly that or partly being cut off. Well, if you think about it, it would be like being cut off from nature because if you took your spectrum analyzer and just looked at all the frequencies that are outside, there's just a wall of noise.

[00:24:45] It's what we call white noise. It's just a whole background of every frequency there is. And so when you start cutting them off and eliminating them, I'd imagine that's probably what it's like in space too. Part of your good amount of frequencies that you're receiving are off, and then that would be disturbing to the body for sure. And maybe that's why people can only stay in space for a limited amount of time, or deep underground, or deep under the sea, these kind of things.

[00:25:15] Luke: This is my rebuttal to the idea that there are underground civilizations. I don't disbelieve anything in this universe. Anything's possible. But that one, I'm like, they're not getting any photons ever? How does any life exist without getting some, even just sun exposure from time to time?

[00:25:42] People think that there's these civilizations under Mount Shasta and stuff like that. I go, they'd have to be a different kind of creature that's not the protoplasmic mammal type creature that we are.

[00:25:53] Paul: Yeah. How you adapt. There's been cultures over the years like the Kogi that put their children into the caves until they can see and they can see in the dark and things like that. I always found that kind of fascinating.

[00:26:05] Luke: Really?

[00:26:06] Paul: Yeah.

[00:26:06] Luke: Tell me more about that.

[00:26:07] Paul: So what they do is part of their initiation rites. At a certain age, they'll put you in a cave. And there's been several instances of this as a shamanic training kind of thing where people will go into a cave, and you'll go in there for a week or so, and you won't see anything.

[00:26:25] But after a couple of weeks and food being brought into you and stuff like that, there's these darkroom practices where eventually you will start to see and you play games and have a ball and pass it back and forth and do things like that. There's some retreats that they do in Thailand, I think, as part as Mantak Chia, where they go into the dark room, that whole idea too.

[00:26:52] Luke: I interviewed this guy, Pavel, and he's done a number of those retreats with that woman in Thailand. Very interesting because she sounds like one of the few authentic breatharians that I've ever heard of. I know people that know her, and it's like, no, it's a real thing. Because it's kind of a Bigfoot thing, the breatharian thing.

[00:27:12] It's like, ah, you hear about a breatharian and then someone catches them eating sardines backstage or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, do you really never eat? You're just living off prana? But I think she's one. She tapped into something.

[00:27:25] Paul: Yeah. I think they're out there too. That documentary, Let There Be Light, did you see that?

[00:27:29] Luke:  No, I haven't.

[00:27:30] Paul: That was really good. There's a documentary on that. And they followed the one fellow around clinically in the hospital, and were doing some kind of sonar or something to look at his kidneys and stuff like that. And you'd see fluids go into the kidneys and then drain, but he wasn't going to the washroom or drinking water.

[00:27:49] But the organs were pulsing with wave of natural frequencies during the day, where they'd fill up and then drain, and who knows where they were going, or where the water was coming from. I'd imagine just taking it in from the breath and respirating it out through the skin. But yeah, I think there's definitely quite a few people like that out there that have done it, but yeah, there's always the fake ones that they get caught too.

[00:28:15] Luke: Have you ever experimented with fasting and living off the Theraphi energy?

[00:28:21] Paul: Yeah, it's definitely light. The Theraphi, I've thought about that. Could there be a machine that you could build that would just sustain you, basically, like that? I think it would be a combination of, I would like to get it down to three or four vials of liquids, something you would take daily or something like that, and then something that you could use to be exposed to the frequencies, the light waves, or whatever.

[00:28:51] I think it could be done, but I did a lot of sun gazing over the years. And yeah, my partner and I, Callie, we've spent many times doing sun gazing and doing fasting and things like that. And that's all been really good. There is a point where maybe after a good six months of sun gazing, you can feel that you don't need to the nutrition.

[00:29:15] So I think that does have a part of it. However, in that Let There Be Light documentary, there was one guy that-- they also had a different take on what they did. One person was like, well, it's because I do sun gazing that I can be a breatharian. But there was also another guy's like, no, I never looked at the sun before. I just don't eat.

[00:29:34] Luke: Wow. Cool. Let's talk about plasma. I want to get into the Theraphi technology. Maybe you could start by breaking down the difference, if there is a difference, or if it's just two terms for the same thing, between this idea of ether and plasma.

[00:29:55] Because when I hear people talk about both, to me it sounds like the same thing, being this substrate of energy that's primordial and is like the wave prior to form, prior to matter. That's my general understanding of it. It's like this thing we're swimming in all the time, but we don't know it. It's like trying to explain water to a fish sort of thing.

[00:30:25] Paul: Yeah, exactly. I think that the plasma is the key to understand that and the transition of that. So the ether being, yeah, this fluid like matrix that everything exists in, but it's undetectable and unknowable.

[00:30:42] But with the plasma, there's something that the plasma does, is that fills space. And it's intelligent and it has this way inside the Theraphi bulbs, for instance. You see it doesn't go right to the walls of the bulb, but it makes a nice little glow all inside of it. And if you move your hand towards it, it will change its shape and space around there.

[00:31:10] Irving Langmuir, he's the one that gave plasma its name because he said it's got an intelligence to it, and he called it blood plasma because it was like blood plasma. They called blood plasma plasma before the Forest data matter plasma. And that's what he said.

[00:31:29] It had some consciousness and it could move around. So it fills the space, and I think it really gives you an idea. They're closely linked to the ether. So if the ether is a fluid medium that everything can have as a basis to exist in and everything is just compounded waves, all matter is just slowed down light. That's the way I see it.

[00:31:56] So as light starts slowing down and trapped in this matrix, it will pop into one of the first elements, which becomes hydrogen, and then slowly grows into denser and denser matter. And they're all waves upon waves that are all converging to make denser and denser matter, denser and denser waves at more harmonic resonances.

[00:32:20] But what plasma does is it's the initial field that will bring that first matter into existence. And if the universe is 99.999% plasma, and scientists agree, everything comes from this matter and slowly condenses, then everything is connected through plasma as well, which is the really interesting thing.

[00:32:50] When you think about the light itself, when you look at every star in the sky and in the sun, every star is connected to each other through light tubes, these light tubes, where every point of light connects to every point of light and connects to us through our eyes and our being. Literally, we are all connected through plasma to everything in the universe.

[00:33:16] So it goes that far. It's really interesting. I love that in the early days when I was into this kind of thing, I had to dig deep, and I'd find the scientific papers and stuff, but I could never get to the esoteric side. There was Walter Russell and a few people like that that really talked about the esoteric side of light.

[00:33:43] But it seems to be getting more and more common understanding with modern day physics and quantum mechanics and people putting two and two together. It's like we're really putting it together now. And I'm really happy that when you Google plasma online, it's a big thing now.

[00:34:02] There's all kinds of people. They're experimenting at home. There's YouTube people. They're all building Tesla coils, and plasma is a hot topic right now. I never imagined in my wildest dreams that it would be.

[00:34:15] Luke: You probably start out reading old books that are falling apart, hunting down these ancient texts and stuff, right?

[00:34:22] Paul: Yeah.

[00:34:23] Luke: Yeah, it's interesting. A few days ago, maybe this last week, I think his name might be Terrence Howard, actor.

[00:34:33] Paul: You're right. Oh man, I get so many emails. My inbox is flooded. My text is going, who's this guy?

[00:34:36] Luke: It's so wild how viral that went. One day, all of a sudden, all things internet, it's just everywhere. Every text group of me with my friends, did you see this? Did you see this? It's all over social media. And I didn't watch the whole thing. I just watched those couple of clips, but I thought, I don't totally understand what he's talking about, but intuitively it makes sense.

[00:35:00] And I haven't studied Walter Russell where I think he got a lot of these ideas. But to me, just as an observer of that virality, I thought, wow, this is a really positive thing that people are actually interested in this, not what Kim Kardashian is wearing or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, oh shit. People really want to know the truth about the nature of our reality.

[00:35:24] Paul:  And it's caused quite a stir. And I think that's pretty exciting. And kudos for them. I guess he's an actor. I hadn't heard of him before, and I started digging in, and I'm like, gee, if he's talking about all this stuff that me and several other people have been talking about for many years, it just seems funny that all of a sudden an actor comes out and then, boom, it's huge all of a sudden. I guess it's connected to Joe and all that.

[00:35:52] But hopefully it's not something where somebody's starting to steer, they want to control the narrative kind of thing like that. Because it would be pretty easy for an actor to just bone up on all this stuff for a year or so and then come out and have some hidden agenda.

[00:36:09] I hope it's not that. I'm not saying that it is, but in this age of disinformation, it's so hard to wade through this stuff. And I've seen it from the beginning of the internet. You used to get everything on there, all kinds of Russian technology. The Russians were light years ahead of us, pardon the pun on this, all these kinds of things for many years.

[00:36:33] And in the early days of the internet, you could find English translations of the Russian papers and stuff like that. But all that stuff is gone now, and it just seems that every time I hear somebody that seems to have all the answers or something like that, I question it. I'm just like, whoa, wait a second. Where'd that come from?

[00:36:52] Luke: Yeah.

[00:36:53] Paul: Because it just came out of the blue.

[00:36:54] Luke: Especially when you get into the realm of free energy and things that could potentially disrupt massive monetary systems. If we don't need to use oil for energy, that's a huge problem for some serious financial interest. The global economy is based on this thing, so if you get some kook in his garage, it's like, hey, I made this hydrogen machine, and you can run your car and your whole house on it, they're not going happen.

[00:37:20] Paul: No, because that's what's happening. And I think that's why I say it could be a thing of being the controlled narrative, because right now there are several of these kooks in their garages, and they have been for a long time. I've been one of them for many years and just never really talked about it too much because I didn't want to sound too out there or whatever.

[00:37:39] But I've looked at every free energy machine that I could build or construct and experiment with to try and figure out these kind of things. And I think that we are on the threshold of that right now. I think there are a lot of people putting two and two together. And the whole thing with the antigravity and the UAP disclosure that they have this thing, they had to change the name from UFOs to UAPs, again, to control the narrative.

[00:38:10] A lot of these people that are behind that are CIA, people that work for the same people that were trying to hide all that information from you for all these years. Now all of a sudden they have all the answers? So there's the same weird gist about it all too, and they're trying to change the name. So anytime you change a name on something from UFOs to UAP, you're trying to change the narrative of it.

[00:38:39] Luke: Yeah. It is a rebrand, a psyop rebrand. One of the difficult things in our time is that there's been so much deception over hundreds, if not thousands of years from the entities that control the flow of information to the general public that now it's difficult to discern truth because we're all paranoid.

[00:39:13] I have people in the show and people accuse them of being controlled opposition, and I'm like, I just spent the whole day with this person. I have pretty good discernment. I'm not God. I don't know, but I have a hard time believing this person isn't in earnest.

[00:39:28] They might be wrong about some of the things they believe, but I don't think they're a CIA asset or a Jesuit or whatever. You know what I mean? But there's all this infighting in what we would call the freedom movement or truth movement because everyone is just so paranoid because there's so much deception that you really don't know what to believe.

[00:39:48] So you hear a guy on Joe Rogan and you're like, whoa, this really resonates. But then in the back of your mind, like, ah, it resonates a little too much. Why are they letting this guy on such a mainstream platform, which Joe Rogan is more mainstream than the mainstream news now, which is cool.

[00:40:04] But yeah, I think it requires an even more finely tuned discernment now to determine who the bad actors are, because it could be anyone yet at the same time, if you discount anyone that's coming forth with esoteric information to the masses, not all of them are the bad guys, even if they were an actor or whatever.

[00:40:27] It's like some people break out of the matrix. They have an awakening and they might've been part of the Hollywood brainwashing machine, and they woke up, and they took off the cuffs, and they're free.

[00:40:40] Paul: Yeah.

[00:40:40] Luke: That dude that was on Rogan, after that thing went viral, another video of him at an award show or something went viral. And he had just won, I don't know, he's on some TV show or something.  I'm not that familiar with his work, but they were like, hey, we heard you're leaving the industry. And he's on the red carpet thing and everything.

[00:40:59] He said, oh man. I've seen the nature of the universe and reality, and you think I could be part of this thing anymore? And he just shit on Hollywood. So hardcore. And he's like, I'm out. And that was a couple of few years ago. So it's possible--

[00:41:13] Paul: Total wake up.

[00:41:14] Luke: Yeah, a guy like that was like, wait, hold up. What am I really doing here? And then the cool thing about that, is someone like that has a voice and has a platform and a following of people that they influence, and then they start coming out with, hey, the periodic table we've been taught is fake news. It's like, wow, that can really have an impact.

[00:41:33] Paul: Yeah, definitely. And it's part of the conscious evolution of the planet. The best thing is whether this is some controlled opposition or not, it's waking people up because people are all paying attention to it now, and they're just like, well, wait a minute. What is this stuff?

[00:41:53] I can't believe how many texts I've got because people know me and what I've been talking about for many years. They're like, well, he's talking about all the things that you're talking about. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. But the common people who know me and don't know really what I talk about or anything like that are calling me up saying, hey, what do you think of this guy?

[00:42:14] And I'm like, wow. So the important thing is that I think that people are paying attention to it, and they're questioning these things now. And that's how we're going to get through this, because if we were on the cusp of a conscious evolution, leaping consciousness here, big time.

[00:42:32] Luke: Do you sense that this mess that we've seen over the past four years is a result of the collective consciousness of humanity elevating to a point where it as a whole won't tolerate what's been happening in the shadows for such a long time?

[00:42:54] That's kind of the sense I get. It's like, why is all this stuff coming out now? The anti-life force that exists in our duality, why did it make a move that was so heavy handed and so obvious and really dumb? Because they've been very, very strategic over the years at the way that they implement control and the manipulation of the human mind and the imprisonment of the human spirit.

[00:43:27] They've been so good at that manipulation. And then it's like they got sloppy and were just like-- and they woke up a lot of people in the process. So I've looked at that and I go, well, they've been doing this stuff in the shadows for so long, and now they're just coming out into the town square going, hey, we're doing this, whether you like it or not.

[00:43:47] And I've asked myself, well, why? And the only answer I can come up with is just that there were enough people that had awakened to who they really are, to the creator, that it forced all of the cockroaches out of the cabinets into the kitchen light. Did you get the sense that that's what's happening?

[00:44:10] Paul: That's the way I look at it too. And they had to make a move. They're like, well, we got to do something quick to knock it back a peg. Otherwise, it's going to go forward. And this is part of the game. We live in this duality nature of back and forth. Otherwise, everything would evolve too quickly and, poof, this thing would be over.

[00:44:29] So I think this duality nature that we live in is there for a reason. And this is what we're here to experience for sure. But I think that was part of it. I think that everybody was really putting a lot together, and it probably has some cosmic influences as well. Of course, there's always been the astrological Age of Aquarius, all these kinds of things.

[00:44:51] We are moving on that grand procession of the equinox. I think the outermost planets in our solar system are just starting to pop in and out of Aquarius now. So that's going to start happening more and more. And I think that, yeah, you're right that so many things have happened and people have done so much personal work over the last few years.

[00:45:14] Look at all the things that have come online, like ayahuasca ceremonies to meditation retreats. And it changed from what it was back in the 60s and the counterculture revolution, and then we saw those people get stomped back by the man, if you will, or whatever. And then they had 9-5 jobs, and they became the corporate people that they didn't want to be when they were young.

[00:45:40] Then it evolved. And I think it's just this flux of conscious shift back and forth that took a big swing in these last few years from 2012. And people were talking. 2012, you remember it was going to be the end of the world and all of that.

[00:45:55] Luke: The Mayan calendar and everything.

[00:45:56] Paul: Well, the end of the Mayan calendar, but we have an end of our calendar every year too. It's New Year's Eve, and it just keeps on rolling. So it was the end of a long count calendar. But if you really think back now, that was a major shift in time and a major point that we really went through a lot of changes leading up from that 2000 to the 2012 and then from this 2012 to this 2024 now. It's like, holy smokes, you really see those 12-year cycles in that double loop, and it's coming around full circle right now.

[00:46:31] Luke: So you're optimistic about the state of affairs here on earth?

[00:46:35] Paul: Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it, really.

[00:46:38] Luke: I'm glad to hear that.

[00:46:40] Paul: I know so many people, and I mean I know all those conspiracy guys and all the blah blah blah, but I have always had a positive outlook on it. I think it's part of realization. It's part of the wake-up call. That stuff does exist, and you have to know it, but you can't live with the fear of it. You have to know and be strong and use it to go forward to shine the light on the dark corners and make the world a better place.

[00:47:10] Luke: Yeah, one of my favorite sayings, and I don't know who I can attribute it to. I think I had it on a shirt a long time ago, and so I put it on a shirt recently because I don't know where it came from. So I plagiarized it unknowingly from an anonymous source, but it said, don't fight the darkness, make the light brighter.

[00:47:28] And I always have to remind myself of that principle because I'm someone who is just fascinated by the nature of our reality. And that includes a willingness and a curiosity about the dark side of the duality. And it's a really a razor's edge to not get caught in the anxiety that comes with the more you start to understand about the nature of this world.

[00:47:52] It's like, oh, wow, there really are satanic pedophiles running things. It sounds crazy when I say it out loud, but I'm like, no, if you dig deep enough, it's actually the way it is. It's crazy. And if you start going down rabbit holes like that, it can get very hopeless because there is just such abject evil.

[00:48:15] Paul: I call that the conspiracy of conspiracy theory. So don't let that conspiracy-- when you go down those rabbit holes and you get into it, I've seen that it eats people up. They've gone so far as committing suicide. And you've heard these stories. I don't know anybody directly, but I've known a lot of people that were just that guy at the party that you're just like, oh God.

[00:48:37] Luke: Here he comes.

[00:48:39] Paul: Don't let that happen to you because that's what I call the conspiracy, conspiracy theory. Then it's like working itself. It's an aggregor that has an effect of itself that gets in and can cause damage in that way. So you have to know it and then be above it and be able to--

[00:48:57] Luke: Yeah, it's a great reminder for all of us. I think one of the positive things that happened as a result of the beginning of the plandemic, it's a really interesting series of events. You impose this tyrannical restrictive matrix on society and lock everyone in their houses, shut down their businesses, keep them away from their friends and family.

[00:49:31] And they have the internet, and those that are not completely asleep felt, hmm, this doesn't make sense. How come Walmart's open, but my church is closed? It's like, what? There's just two, and your average thinking person, I think that, hmm, I'll go along with this at first. But after a couple of months, you're going like, hmm, something doesn't add up here.

[00:49:55] And then those people start digging around on the internet, like, huh, let me find out what's going on here. And next thing they're looking at the Vatican and the birth certificate and all the stuff.

[00:50:07] I think that when the system became so heavy handed, they inadvertently woke up masses of people that otherwise would have just been in their job, hanging with their family, minding their own business, paying their taxes. It's like they really caused the middle demographic, probably the biggest demographic of people that aren't left, aren't right, are just living their lives, want to be left alone, until they couldn't.

[00:50:38] And then they're like, well, hang on. And I think that center group of moderate, rational people now has expanded into more of the fringe, what would have been called conspiracy theorists. And now it's just called someone who's able to recognize patterns.

[00:50:57] Paul: Right. Just common sense.

[00:50:59] Luke: I think that we'll, at a certain point, look back on the Convid era and be like, it was the greatest thing that ever happened despite the unfortunate genocide that we're now witnessing. As sad as that is, I think everyone I know, including myself, knows someone that's either been harmed quite significantly or killed.

[00:51:25] So that sucks. I acknowledge that. Yet, a lot of people are awake now that would have never been awake if the status quo had been maintained. So it's an interesting observation that only time will tell, but I think we'll look back in 10 years, 20 years and go, oh, the plandemic was the best thing that ever happened because it started to expose the system.

[00:51:48] Paul: Yeah.

[00:51:49] Luke: And we won't be able to put that genie back in the bottle. Once you see what's going on, you can't unsee it. You might be wrong sometimes. You might get caught up in new age fantasies and weird esoteric shit that has no relevance or isn't really impactful in your life and is a distraction, but ultimately, it's still going to lead more people to understanding the nature of this duality and how we can operate in facilitating more light into this onto the chess board.

[00:52:19] Paul: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:52:21] Luke: Anyway, so many things I want to talk to you about. Back on the free energy thing, because I think this is one of the things that could unravel this tax slave prison system we have, as I'm sure you've observed, when people have come forward with free energy devices, ways to operate a motor vehicle without gasoline, etc., they seem to reliably and mysteriously die.

[00:52:51] And so I interviewed a guy named George Wiseman recently who made the Browns gas machine, the AquaCure. I love that freaking machine. And he said something interesting to me, is that one of his first inventions was a fuel saver where he hooked it up to his old Chevy truck and could get 100 miles a gallon or whatever.

[00:53:13] Paul: HyZor, I think he called it.

[00:53:14] Luke: Yeah. And he still makes them. And I'm like, well, God, this guy must be loaded, if you invent something like that. And he said, I've never patented anything because if you patent it, that's when they come after you. If you make everything you do open source, you don't make much money, but you get to stay alive. So what do you think about the idea of patents and innovative, disruptive technologies?

[00:53:38] Paul: Yeah, definitely that's the case. And what ends up happening, if your patent gets submitted and it does have significance to be a big game changer in some energy level like that, for one thing, you're not allowed to patent anything that has to do with nuclear things.

[00:53:55] So common public cannot patent any nuclear technology, including transmutations or cold fusion or anything like that. But what ends up happening is it goes before a board of review, and there's a board of review that sits in between the patent office and the US military. And for the sake of national security, they can pull that patent and say, hey, hey, this has good value for us in the military, and we're just want you to go away and shut up.

[00:54:22] Luke: Really? Do they have to pay you?

[00:54:23] Paul: Yeah. So there's a division. And they will either pay you or just threaten you. I've heard all the stories, from threaten your family and stuff like this to you disappear. I don't know. I like to think that hopefully some people could get paid for things like that, but still, it takes it out of that game.

[00:54:42] And there's quite a few. There's a list of thousands and thousands of patents that are in that section that have never been released to the public. So they're not publicly published. And I think just releasing those would be a good start that the government could do for people. Because there's been a lot of that stuff over the years. And yeah, apparently that's the case. So if you put it out just to the general public as general information, yeah, nobody can stop you.

[00:55:14] Luke: Educational purposes only. Here's the blueprints for the free energy device you can hook up to your power line at your house or whatever. It's like an intuitive feeling I have. I'm always observing nature, and that's my barometer for what is real and what is true. And outside of the infrastructure that humanity has created, nature's brutal. Everything's eating everything all the time. There's a lot of suffering in nature.

[00:55:43] So I don't think nature is a utopia. I love having a house and air conditioning in Texas. I'm all for it. However, in terms of resources, the world is so abundant. There is no shortage of anything. And there has been this false construct that there is a limited supply of the resources we need to sustain our lives.

[00:56:09] And then certain interests have taken control of those resources, water, oil, etc., electricity, power, all those things, and then ingrained the belief system that it's in limited supply, therefore elevating its perceived value. And then we spend our lives essentially slaving away for those resources, for our food, and power, and water, and so on, fuel. If you look at nature, everything's free, and it's just endless.

[00:56:47] Paul: The deer don't pay for their food.

[00:56:49] Luke: Yeah. And so it's just one of these things I'm like, holy shit, we're a hairless ape that has somehow been tricked into thinking we have to pay to live on the planet. We literally have to pay to exist. What is happening?

[00:57:06] Paul: You go to university, and there's these people out there, second law of thermodynamics. There is no such thing as free energy. There's no free lunch. There's no nothing. And peak oil. Oh, peak oil. We hit peak oil. We're running out. Oh, the price is going to go up. It's going to go up because we're really running low. And then, oh, there's a war and all this stuff. That's all bullshit.

[00:57:25] It's hilarious, the game. We live in an infinite sea of energy. There's infinite amount of energy that we can have at our access forever. Food grows every time you look outside. There's animals and everything like that. None of them have to go to McDonald's to drive through to get their food or anything like that.

[00:57:45] Luke: One thing I've observed on that is if you look at a fruit tree, just take an apple tree, it makes more apples than-- they all just rot on the ground and the seeds go into the soil and get eaten by birds and distributed, and then there's more apple trees. It's like, if you just look at any fruit bearing tree, you can see the abundance. The environment can't even consume all the food. Not in all cases, but in many cases.

[00:58:11] Paul: Bacteria and everything, but it feeds everything all around it for miles, if you think about it.

[00:58:16] Luke: And so that's a great analogy, I think, for all of the resources that we're all fighting over because we've been manipulating it to thinking they're in short supply.

[00:58:25] Paul: Oil is a good one. I like the term petroleum. They talk about different things that they call oil, but the word petroleum literally means rock oil, petro oilium, because it's continuously being regenerated.

[00:58:40] They'll go back to wells that they've drilled and sucked dry basically years later, and when the go back to check them, they are filled up again. So it's like, well, where is that--

[00:58:54] Luke: A bunch of invisible dinosaurs died and buried themselves.

[00:58:56] Paul: Yeah. More dinosaurs died and got under there somehow. The dinosaur myth, that's a big one. So it's nature. In an alchemical sense, I look at petroleum as being the oil or the soul of the earth. The water is the spirit of the earth. It's like in alchemy, you have the sulfur, the salt and the mercury. So the oil would be the sulfur of the earth. The mercury would be the water of the earth, and the salt of the earth is the earth itself, the rock.

[00:59:29] Luke: Oh, that's cool. I think of the planet as the master alchemist. It seems to be able to take plasma or ether and create things out of it. Hence, where does the oil come from, the new oil? Our primary water.

[00:59:48] Paul: Primary water, where does that come from?

[00:59:52] Luke: You can go 10,000 feet up in the Rocky Mountains, and there's a spring that's been gushing for all of recorded history, thousands and thousands of gallons. And it's like, oh, that's part of the hydrological cycle. It comes from the aquifer. And it's like, dude, come on. The planet makes water out of what? I don't know. It's alchemy. It's out of thin air. Boom. There's water. It's so magical.

[01:00:14] Paul: Yeah. Negative entropy everywhere. When I look out my window, I don't see everything breaking down and falling apart and burning up.

[01:00:24] Luke: What do you see?

[01:00:25] Paul: Well, it's a sweet spot. This is a harmonic node, and that's what it is. We're being churned. We're just in that sweet spot in the distance from the sun, and the sun from the distance of its next neighbors. And there's these harmonic resonances. And every time you fit into one of those really sweet spots, that's where the earth is, is just in that spring.

[01:00:45] And life will generate, and the negative entropy, everything's abundance. So that water coming in-- and everything comes from the sun too. In these recent solar storms we've had, I don't know if you guys got the northern lights all the way down here.

[01:01:02] Luke: It was cloudy.

[01:01:03] Paul: I've heard in Florida and Georgia.

[01:01:05] Luke: Yeah, it was overcast during that time, so I couldn't tell.

[01:01:09] Paul: And it was intense. So that's plasma being lit up from the sun. And the amount of energy that comes out from the sun on a daily basis that feeds this earth and this earth sucks it up into its Van Allen belt, that plasma has enough energy to light the earth all the way down to here, probably to the equator in a good storm. That amount of energy is absolutely massive. We're talking gigawatts and gigawatts of power, if you were able to tap that.

[01:01:45] There was this guy.  He was a Norwegian physicist, Kristian Birkeland. And he went to the north to study these. They named him Birkeland currents after that. And his time, they thought he was crazy. Oh, you're nuts. That has nothing to do with electricity. It's like the body has nothing to do with frequencies or electricity or anything like that. It's just chemicals. And you've always had these naysayers in science that will naysay people until they've figure it's true. And then they'll go, oh yeah, we knew all that.

[01:02:15] Luke: And then they named the phenomenon after them.

[01:02:18] Paul: So they did. They named the Birkeland currents after him. Well, if you think about it, those Birkeland currents are what ties this whole universe together like when we started talking at the beginning, the light tubes that connect every point of light in space.

[01:02:33] And coincidentally enough, they like to twist in pairs. So just like the DNA double helix spiral, the currents are moving forwards and backwards, transmitting information and data essentially between all points of space and light in the cosmos. And they're not only transmitting the data and the information but also elements.

[01:02:54] So all the elements are moving ionically through all those channels. So I like the idea of this expanding earth theory. So the earth is a crystal seed instead of the idea of Pangea, where all the continents were all stuck on one side of the earth and the rest was water.

[01:03:11] Because if you think about it, it'd be pretty lopsided, and it would kind of roll like a bad washing machine load, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk. But what makes more sense to me is that the earth is like a seed and it grew and all those elements come into the earth from the sun as they do stream in every day, and slowly and slowly we're a growing crystal, a living crystal that is in this harmonic node of coherence where everything comes together and life flourishes.

[01:03:40] And maybe that was another planet in our solar system was in coherence before like Mars. If there was life on Mars before and it's completely a desolate desert, it's very feasible that it was like Earth at one time and then completely dried up and got burnt up or the people that lived there, if they were like us, could have destroyed it and then moved on for Earth. So I think about that quite a bit, and it just seems to be we're in the sweet spot right here.

[01:04:11] Luke: There's definitely some magic happening here that's unexplainable.  I think it's difficult sometimes to reconcile the way that creation has set up such extreme polarity. In energies, you have the Godhead of unfathomable love and creation on one side.

[01:04:35] And then you have just, I guess, not really the opposite of that, but the lack of that on one end of it, the good and evil kind of paradigm. And it's always something I'm really trying to reconcile within myself that there has to be a purpose in that. Otherwise, it would just be utopia and there would be no opposites.

[01:04:57] Paul: And that would be lame. You'd get really bored. If everything was absolutely perfect and just the way it is, I say this to people all the time, it's like, if you think that we're moving into a time where everything's just going to be peachy keen and unicorns and rainbows forever, I don't know if that's going to happen because it would just get boring really quick. You'd be like, all right, nothing dies. Nothing does anything, and nothing goes anywhere or does anything.

[01:05:22] Luke: And there would be no contrast to play with. It's like, if the purpose of us being here as individuated expressions of consciousness or little fingers on the hand of God, so to speak, if we incarnated and there was no bottom floor from which we can elevate our consciousness, then if that's the purpose of being here, you need the bottom floor.

[01:05:51] Otherwise, how do you go up? There has to be an up and a down for you to go up. Otherwise, if everything's just up, then there's no point for God to manifest itself because it's already what it is. It's already arrived at that. That's what it is. So it seems like it being God or consciousness just manifests itself infinitely in all the realms of the duality so that it can then merge back with itself or experience itself.

[01:06:21] Paul: Yeah, experience itself. That's a Kabbalistic idea.

[01:06:24] Luke: Is it?

[01:06:25] Paul: Yeah. Where God basically fractured into billions of shards of pieces and those pieces are us. And then it had to do that to break it itself all apart to experience itself to bring itself back together.

[01:06:40] Luke: Right. Because if there's no other, there's no point of reference outside of oneself. The only way that I can know there's a you there is because there's a me here. If it's all me here, then I can't experience you, because there's nothing else there.

[01:06:55] I think I've understood that concept. I never heard it from Kabbalah, but in the Vedic worldview, it's the same thing. In a couple of experiences I've had with 5-MeO-DMT, I've emerged from those experiences going, oh, that's the thing that I've been reading about all these years.

[01:07:21] Because there's a brief moment where you really dissolve into the totality of allness, and there's no you there anymore. It's a beautiful experience for many reasons, but one of them is, I think it really helped me reconcile the existence of evil, and that it's either all God or there's no God, is where that left me. And there's a comfort in that knowing there's a purpose to it.

[01:07:51] God's going, I'm going to be a Hitler and a Gandhi. It's just like, I'm going to do all the things and be all the things at once. It's comforting to know that there's a meaning behind it. Man, I had no idea we're going to even-- we haven't even gotten to the topic of the conversation and we're however far into it.

[01:08:13] All right. I'm going to discipline myself as the host here. And I really want to talk about your technology, the Theraphi. And you're a great guy because you've invented something that is, I think, really meaningful in health and consciousness. But I sense from getting to know you today that you're not someone who's like, I'm going to go on a podcast and sell my shit and make a bunch of money.

[01:08:36] That's just not your vibe. Even your shirt says that, if you even call that a shirt. And so it's not about selling your thing, obviously, but I think that technologies like the Theraphi are the future. They are the way up and out of this pharmaceutical industrial complex and our corrupt food system, and tainted water, and aluminum-filled air, and all the things that we're up against, EMF, cell towers, all this stuff.

[01:09:05] We're facing an onslaught on our biology 24/7 in the modern world. Even if you live remotely and off grid and you're doing all the things, there's even things out there that you can't avoid. So I envision a world where every home has a device like the Theraphi and people are able to build resilience in their bodies and in their minds and spirits to where we can evolve alongside all of these external threats and still maintain our vitality.

[01:09:40] And so you're onto something so cool. And you can describe in great detail what it is and what it does, but before that, just for those listening, I've experienced the Theraphi twice, once with Har Hari out in LA at the Transformational Healing Universe, and one with our mutual friend Brandon, who was kind enough to bring one over here when we did our podcast.

[01:10:01] And I was like, pray he wouldn't leave with that. I did a session. It was in our bedroom, and I was like, oh man, I would be on this thing every day. So my subjective experience, just to put it simply is both times, and I've experimented with a lot of this stuff, maybe not as much as you obviously, but I have a BioCharger, amp coil, all kinds of Rife machines I've played with, all the things.

[01:10:30] I think many of them are valid and I use them all the time, but I've never had the experience that I had with the Theraphi, which was, I don't know, two to five minutes in just-- even when I went to the first one in LA, I was at an event and I was really high beta. My mind's awake. I'm alert. I'm super social. I'm energized, really hyped up.

[01:11:01] Lay on that thing three to five minutes, and I'm just drooling in a complete, beautiful, deep, meditative state. I'm like, okay, there's no way I could have placebo'd myself into being this relaxed this fast. And then it has a reboot period after eight, nine, 12 minutes or something.

[01:11:17] Paul: You can set it for what you want.

[01:11:19] Luke: So Har Hari sets it up and it ends, and I'm like, what? No. I was pissed. Then he came back, and he's like, no, just chill for a few minutes. It'll go through another cycle. I was like, okay, I'm nowhere near done. This is such a beautiful feeling. And so that's my experience and why I was so excited to talk to you. Out of all the things out there, I think it's really one of the most meaningful.

[01:11:42] And the last thing I'll say about it is, in contrast to some of the other devices that use different energies like that, noble gases, and Tesla coils, and PEMF, and all this, many of them are very stimulating, which is great, if that's what you want. I love that sometimes. But there seems to be a very yin energy to the Theraphi.

[01:12:08] There's something very restorative and nourishing about it. And it's not, in my brief experience, at all stimulating. It's more of a restful, nurturing self-care experience. So kudos on that. I'm drinking all the Theraphi Kool Aid, and someday someone smart around here in Austin will buy one and open a little clinic, hopefully nearby. Or I'll get one someday.

[01:12:35] Give me the first iteration of this technology. What did the first one look like, function like, what was some of your product development process until you arrived at what you have now?

[01:12:49] Paul: Well, it's interesting that you said you nailed it about that three-minute marker because I think on the first instance where I set up the configuration of the Theraphi where it is, I was used to building Rife type machines. I built many different Tesla coils and plasma machines and Rife-type machines and stuff like that over the years, PEMF and things.

[01:13:11] And most of those you can go in for half an hour, 45 minutes and you're like, okay, I got a good dose. But it was that three minute marker when I sat between the tubes and went, wow, this is really doing something in three minutes. That's unusual.

[01:13:26] And then there was also the yin component to it, as you were saying. It's like, I like to call it the most powerful, subtle energy machine ever made because it's using a subtle energy, but it's not a active-- it is way more yin, and that was the idea. Many of the machines I had built in the past used hard blinking plasma lights that would have a square wave, chop wave, bang, bang, bang, because that's how we were targeting viruses, and bacteria, and pathogens, and stuff like that.

[01:14:03] And it was going from the mindset, from the early Rife days, that Rife was out to kill the cancer and destroy it with this active plasma frequency that shattered things. And you could put living organisms under there, plepharismas and things like that, and you could see them. They'd be highly motile zipping around on the slide.

[01:14:24] It's something you pulled out of a swamp. And then all of a sudden you hit it with this resonant frequency and it goes, bang, and it stops and it starts to pulse. And then the membrane of the cell explodes and it dies before your very eyes. It's like, wow. But the Theraphi, I basically didn't want that to do that.

[01:14:41] I wanted to provide constructive frequencies rather than destructive frequencies. Played a lot with destructive frequencies over the years and realized the potential that you could do it. And you could make very destructive frequencies for larger organisms that have been weaponized, like some of the military has machines like that, where they can point at people and literally--

[01:15:04] Luke: Millimeter wave cannons.

[01:15:05] Paul: Yeah. They can melt people just like Rife was doing with the viruses and bacteria too. So I thought, how do we get away from that negative side and do something constructive and positive to the body? So giving the body the strength and the energy it needs to do the functions more properly. So that's that premise of that.

[01:15:31] Luke: It's interesting that there's a correlation I'm drawing between the idea of terrain theory and modern medicine germ theory, where in modern medicine, it's like, cut it out. Poison it. Give it medicine, kill it. Versus in, I'm speaking in very general terms, but in the terrain theory, you have your fish tank. Let's create the optimal environment in the fish tank so the fish can flourish.

[01:16:00] And so it reminds me of that rather than using those harsher frequencies to try to kill something. It's like, wow, let's actually just improve the biofield energetics of the body to help it be more resilient to those threats, those insults. Yeah, it's a cool concept.

[01:16:21] Paul: What's really interesting is actually, even though we started off this whole talk and we went down all those little rabbit holes and things like that, it was all of those things that led to the creation of the Theraphi, everything we talked about leading up to that.

[01:16:37] Because what it is, is generally emulating nature. And it's just like the Ouroborealus and the Ouro Australealus and the plasma fields around the earth and the magnetic field around the earth is the same idea with the plasma tubes in the Theraphi. One spinning clockwise, the other one spinning counter clockwise. It's that integration of those counter spinning vortices.

[01:17:04] And the idea was to churn the ether. So we talked about the other, ether, and when the plasma is intermittently connected to the ether, it can go both ways. When the ether is churning, which is essentially how a motor-- where does electricity from? They don't know. When you go to modern scientists and ask them, how does electricity work, they'll tell you all the things, properties about electricity.

[01:17:33] Well, it can do this, and it can do work, and it does all that, but they can never describe where it comes from or what it really is. And that's what it really is. It's a churning. When you have a motor or just like when you have a fan at the other end, the motor is churning the ether.

[01:17:49] The energy is moving and going down the conductors. The conductors are waveguides. The electricity is really in the field around the wires. It's not really electrons jumping down to the wires. This is why EMF exists.

[01:18:02] Luke: Interesting.

[01:18:03] Paul: It's not about the wire, and it's not about electricity moving. And how they taught in school is that there's holes in the wire and the electrons and the electrons are jumping down the thing in the wire. It takes two to tangle.  

[01:18:17] So you got this vortex that makes that twist. And that's why the light tubes, the Birkeland currents that we talked about twist, like the DNA pairs that come from space to space. Because it needs a positive charge and a negative charge. And how you move that charge through space is in the field around the wires. And what Theraphi really is doing is creating that field, that dielectric field around you.

[01:18:47] Luke: Explains why when you are near a high-tension power line, there's a magnetic field hitting you on the ground, and you could be 50 feet or however far away from it. It's like you're not touching the wire, but you're still feeling the field.

[01:19:01] Paul: Yeah. That field.

[01:19:02] Luke: That's so interesting.

[01:19:03] Paul: Yeah. So what Theraphi is really doing is tuning that field, and you become part of the circuit when you're immersed in that field. I like to call your body the non-linear capacitive dielectric that's in the field, and the different densities in the tissues are pulsing and resonating at different frequencies. And they go from very high frequencies to very low frequencies.

[01:19:31] See, in the Rife days, it was a big thing we couldn't figure out. We stumbled across on this all the time and said, how can you affect such a small organism with RF? Because these wavelengths of RF. As soon as you go into the frequencies of your average Rife machine at 23 megahertz and up into the megahertz, there's still pretty long waves.

[01:19:54] Until you get into the gigahertz, are you getting down to centimeter type waves? Then into the terahertz. Now you're getting into the nanometer type waves. But you can still physically see that. How can you affect something that's so small with RF that you can't even see it? You need a microscope to see it. Beyond that, it'd be virus, and you need an electron scanning microscope to see it.

[01:20:20] It's the thing that puzzled many people for a long time. And I think it's finally just come to me over the last little while. I realize it's how the plasma resonates. Because the plasma is the perfect fractal antenna, like we were saying, all the way from tying the cosmos together through the Birkeland currents and light tubes between all the stars.

[01:20:42] But the fractality in the plasma goes all the way down to the quantum level, all the way down to the atomic level, because there are noble gases in there that won't interact into each other.

[01:20:52] But when you're putting the energy through, you're causing that outer valence electron to jump. And that's what we call a quanta. Quantum mechanics comes from that, a very small distance of jumping of an electron in between shells. So then this is where I've been coming to lately.

[01:21:13] It's like, that's how it works at all scales, at all things, all the way down to affecting your DNA and your mitochondria, the amount of power you can dump into your mitochondria. Your mitochondria is running on such high, high power.

[01:21:29] Luke: So this explains the holographic nature of our reality. It's just a matter of scale. The same thing is basically happening from the subatomic quantum level all the way up to the gross level of matter. It's just our perception limits how we are able to interpret it. Well, that is fascinating. Sometimes in these interviews, I wish we could have a video presentation too, because we're often talking about things.

[01:21:59] And I know for people that are listening, they're like, what is this thing? What does it look like? So my version of the Theraphi is you have a big ass box, a couple of feet by a couple of feet that goes under, say a massage table or some sort of platform bed. And then you have these two giant, for lack of a better description, light bulbs, these plasma tubes.

[01:22:23] One is behind your head and one is at your feet. And you turn it on. You lay there. These bulbs light up with these beautiful noble gases inside, and you basically just lay there and meditate and relax. But it's a three-component system. Am I getting that right?

[01:22:43] Paul: Yeah.

[01:22:43] Luke: So how would you describe for people that are going to have to visualize this? And of course we'll link it at lukestorey.com.theraphi. So we'll have photos of it and things like that, links to your other talks and whatnot where you have visual presentations. What are the three different parts doing? How does it work?

[01:23:02] Paul: Right. Okay. Yeah. Just like we're saying, it emulates the earth. So look at the poles of the earth, the North pole and the South pole, those being the tubes. The tubes are based on geometry as well. They're a conical shape, a phi ratio triangle, like a pyramid spun in a cone. So one to 1:1.618 on the line.

[01:23:29] Luke: Oh, so the shape of the bulbs are actually that deliberate?

[01:23:32] Paul: Yeah.

[01:23:32] Luke: Oh, okay. That's cool. I didn't know that.

[01:23:33] Paul: They are. All the electronics and the way the boards laid out in there is all based on geometry as well, the coils that wound. And so the center of the earth, picture the earth's core, is the coil that's underneath the bed.

[01:23:48] It's a very special type of Tesla coil that focuses everything back in unto itself. So if you look at a magnet, the common field that you see in pictures of a magnet where the lines go all the way around is a little bit different. Magnets spiral. There's an actual spiraling vortex field.

[01:24:12] Ken Wheeler has done a lot of great work with us and talks on YouTube and showing the magnetic fields. And what he calls the dielectric plane of inertia is the center. I like to call it counter space. So all the energy is filing out of the tubes and the Tesla coil and creating that field.

[01:24:34] So you have a PEMF, or Pulsed Electro Magnetic Field, coming from the coil itself. You have the dielectric field being created by the connections between the big black box and the tubes. So that's submersing you in an electrostatic field. And then you have the photonic emission itself from the actual lights from the tube that absorbs biophotonically. So all three of those components tie together.

[01:25:09] Luke: With the biophotons, your body's absorbing those without you having to look at them, how we absorb energy.

[01:25:16] Paul: They'll go right through your feet. Yeah. They'll come right into your body.  Because they're information fields too. They're packets of information.

[01:25:24] Luke: So this is mimicry of nature, essentially.

[01:25:30] Paul: Yeah.

[01:25:31] Luke: And I think that's why the nervous system responds to it in a way. There's some familiarity. The biology, the energy systems of the body go, hmm, we know this. We know this feeling, because we're getting it in micro currents by being in nature, being in the sun, being grounded. On a full moon, we might feel differently.

[01:25:52] But it's very subtle. So we're essentially using energies that exist in our earth reality and through your innovation we're harnessing and would you say, would amplifying those energies or focusing them be an appropriate way to say it?

[01:26:10] Paul: Yeah, and absorbing them. And that's what I'd like to say.  I'd like to say that it gives every cell in your body a micro massage from the micro currents that are going in there. So it's stimulating cellular respiration and providing better uptake, as well as providing that energy source that's driving all the way down to the mitochondrial level.

[01:26:36] And that seems to be how it fits in. Body eases into it, like you say. I've had so many people on the table, especially if they're deep meditators, and they say, wow, I could go away for a meditation retreat and spend a week to get as deep as I can get to in the Theraphi in three minutes, just like, boom.

[01:26:58] Luke: That was my experience. A couple of decades of very committed meditative practice. I think that's why something like that resonates with me, because as much as I try to not be attached to where I'm going in a meditation, because that ruins it if you're like, oh, I want to get to that one sweet spot.

[01:27:18] And that attachment is the very thing that you're meditating to remove. It's like you're wanting to surrender your attachments. But admittedly, I have a real appetite for that theta quantum space of just losing the self and going into that place of the seed of creativity. That's where I get my best insights and inspiration.

[01:27:51] It's also where I feel my nervous system letting go of the micro traumas of life and just off gassing emotional baggage. I wore my meditation shirt today, Meditation is my medication. Because it's just been so transformative. But it's, at the same time, a practice.

[01:28:12] They call it practicing meditation for a reason. You never arrive. You're never like, ooh, I'm a meditator. It's like, well, depends on so many different influences. So I find that is a frustrating thing about meditation for me, even as someone who's, for lack of a better term, pretty good at it because I practiced for a long time and have been very committed to it.

[01:28:32] But it's not a guarantee that every time I drop in, I'm going to arrive in that field. Sometimes it's just like the mind is going. And that's your practice that day, is just going, wow, what a busy mind? That's interesting. Thank you, mind, for really doing a lot of computing, trying to protect me, and that's what it's doing.

[01:28:53] But I think it's beautiful to have something that can assist, like the Theraphi, wherein regardless of like how busy the mind wants to be, it can't really compete with those energies. Those fields are going to overtake the system, and whether it likes it or not, you're going to relax and you're going to have a restorative session.

[01:29:16] Paul: Yeah. Another good one that I've seen over the years is there's been a few people that come along that right off the bat, they're like, oh yeah, no, don't believe in this. This is crazy. It's voodoo, whatever. And they have a strong objection against it. They go in, they still get the same effect, and they come out with their mind changed.

[01:29:35] That's, for me, the best example that, oh, this is really doing something here. Because you could say a lot of it is subjective in that, but when you get people that are, dead set saying there's nothing to this. I don't believe in it. I had one fellow, became actually a business partner, but his son was coming, and he was a hockey player, and he was going to see this clinic. He was getting really good results.

[01:30:02] And he came along and said, yeah, no, I better go down and see what my son's gotten himself into. This sounds all weird, this weird electronic device that does these things. Nothing can do anything like that. And he got positive results from it. And he was like, wow, this is really interesting. It really helped him out in some of the issues he was having. So when it turns people around like that, that has a pretty good validation towards the technology.

[01:30:34] Luke: One thing that I'm a big fan of is stacking different technologies. For example, I have this great tech called the Lucio light, which is this hypnagogic light. It's super psychedelic and incredible. And so that on its own is pretty impactful. It definitely produces a state change reliably.

[01:30:53] And it's interesting because your brain is what's producing the light show and, I wouldn't say hallucinations, but definitely some strong visuals. And it's just a white light that's flashing to specific frequencies and whatnot.

[01:31:09] So I think, well, the way that I am, because I'm extreme, I go, well, this is awesome. What if I take a little ketamine and then go in there? Wow, this is really nice. If that's nice, let me do my neuroacoustic software from NuCalm, which is my all-time favorite in the realm of-- it's way beyond, what's that, brain entrainment. Binaural beats.

[01:31:34] It's like that, but on steroids, is much more sophisticated. So get the light, add that, and I go, why don't I lay on a PEMF mat at the same time? So I add that because I'm thinking if I'm going to spend 20 or 30 minutes doing something restorative, I want to just do 10 things at once. Why not?

[01:31:51] So I imagine with the Theraphi, it could be interesting and see if you think this is a good or bad idea. What if you were on the Theraphi and you had the Lucio light above you and you're on the NuCalm? Maybe not the PEMF obviously because you don't want to create conflicts, but have you experimented with or think there's any benefit to stacking other modalities with the Theraphi?

[01:32:14] Paul: Yeah, we have. We've done the Lucio and the Theraphi at the same time.  Like you said, with the beds or anything like that, or magnetic fields, you don't want to contradict them because they can fight each other. The magnetic fields want to counteract each other. So some technologies can be used, like the Lucio, at the same time.

[01:32:38] Luke: Could you wear headphones on the Theraphi?

[01:32:39] Paul: Yeah, the headphones, you can, some. There's also some RF interference. So it depends on what you're connected to. You don't want to be connected right straight to a computer and have your headphones there. But if it's an independent device, the answer is you have to experiment with it. That's what I tell people. And they ask me, oh, could I do this? And I'm like, well, play with it, but be careful because you don't want to overwhelm one device or another.

[01:33:08] Luke: And you don't want to have any large pieces of metal near the Theraphi either, right?

[01:33:11] Paul: Yeah. Because the Theraphi has such a high electrostatic field, it can shut down other computers, and it changes clocks and does all kinds of crazy things like that.

[01:33:21] Luke: Right. That's always a funny thing with the BioCharger. Friends will come over. It looks really cool, so they want to--

[01:33:27] Paul: They want to take a picture.

[01:33:28] Luke: Yeah. And then their phone just implodes. Yeah. I've had funny shit happen. My phone will take pictures on its own. It'll start calling someone. It's pretty spooky.

[01:33:39] Paul: Yeah. The time will change. It messes with the clock. And when you mess with the clock in a computer, the computer has errors because it's all based on that clock that it has to be running at the same continuous time.

[01:33:51] Luke: What about, and I'm not suggesting that you recommend this, but have you heard of anyone stacking a psychedelic journey with the Theraphi?

[01:34:03] Paul: I haven't. And I haven't really tried it myself, but the one thing I have noticed, I've had people that have been intoxicated with alcohol get on the Theraphi, and it detoxes them. They come sober pretty quick.

[01:34:21] Luke: That's cool.

[01:34:23] Paul: Yeah, it'd be really good. It just hasn't really come up. It's interesting that it hasn't come up in all these years, but that's the only one that I've noticed. For alcohol, it soberizes you. But I've never really done it myself, to take any psychedelics, or thought about doing it. If I do those kinds of things, I like to be in nature, away from technologies and stuff like that. But it'd be worth a try, if there's anybody out there that wants to experiment.

[01:34:53] Luke: Are you familiar with this technology called the Rasha? Have you looked into this?

[01:34:57] Paul: Yeah, I've seen that guy's device. He's been at a show, and it's got a similar-- we used to call them star mother kits with a Phanotron tube. In the Rife days, that particular bubble tube, we call it the Phanotron, and he uses audio and stuff like that, but I've just seen it at a show.

[01:35:25] Luke: Yeah. I had him on the show a couple of years ago. I actually forgot about that. That's another one that I've had some deep experiences with. I'll do a 45-minute journey and just go into complete outer space, not every time, as a different thing, but it's pretty powerful.

[01:35:46] But I brought it up because the inventor/founder of this guy, Jerry, who's the guy I had on the show, there were a few of them floating around and there was one in LA. Because people own and go around and do healing sessions, coherence, healings, and things like that.

[01:36:02] Because you can fit a bunch of people around it, and they're connected to sound beds and stuff. It's a cool experience. So a friend of mine thinks like me, is extreme and sometimes stupid, and wanted to do like a mushroom journey and combine it with the Rasha. So we asked Jerry and was like, do not ever do that. Really bad idea.

[01:36:24] I highly recommend that you do not try that. So my friend didn't listen and did it, and it was a really bad experience. It was too much. It was just overload. So a word of caution for those out there. I'm someone who does stupid stuff. And then I can report back and go, okay, I tested it out. Do not do that. I do not recommend.

[01:36:51] But yeah, that was one of those things. And Jerry was like, I told you guys. You don't need it. This is enough. It's enough power. It's enough transformation. Go do that on its own. But still there's that curious side of me that's like, well, if thing A is good and thing B is good, then why not combine them and make thing C, which will be even better, which is sometimes true, sometimes not.

[01:37:13] I'm sure people are going to ask me, because whenever I have a category of technology highlighted on the show, they'll say, what's the difference between this thing and that thing? When I had George Wiseman on, I still get messages all the time. Well, what's better? The Hydrofix water hydrogen machine or the AquaCure?

[01:37:34] And I'm like, it's apples and oranges. They're both great. It depends on how much you like to do maintenance. If you want something really pretty in your kitchen, the AquaCure is probably not for you. They're both great. It's not a either or, and they are quite different, but I'm sure people are going to go, what's the difference between Theraphi and the BioCharger, or the Rasha, or the amp coil, or other technologies in the same category?

[01:38:00] Paul: Yeah. Well, that's the beauty of the Theraphi, is there's really been nothing like it. My biggest issue is there's people that use the same wording and languaging and have basically just taken the whole concepts and applied it to their machine when they don't even understand what those words mean. And they're using it towards their thing.

[01:38:25] Luke: Good marketers.

[01:38:26] Paul: Yeah. They're good marketers, I suppose. So use caution. And that's been my biggest thing for people when they're getting into these things and looking at them, is do your homework and understand what they're all about, the machines, and go with your heart, what feels good for you.

[01:38:44] Yeah, it's hard to do any comparisons because I really do think that the Theraphi is so unique, there's nothing else really like it, even though there seems to be a lot of people using the same languaging and things like that around theirs.

[01:39:03] Luke: So there are other devices that are using noble gases and plasma, PEMF, these electric fields, the BioCharger being an example.

[01:39:15] Paul: BioCharger is pretty close.

[01:39:16] Luke: It's a combination of a few different older technologies.

[01:39:20] Paul: Yeah, lots of gases, single upright Tesla coil. Yeah, I guess BioCharger would be one of the more similar ones too.

[01:39:36] Luke: You're lucky enough to have one of these in your house, I assume.

[01:39:39] Paul: Yeah.

[01:39:40] Luke: How often are you doing Theraphi sessions on average?

[01:39:43] Paul: It's more Callie, my partner. She's the one who does sessions for other people and all that. It's like the shoemaker whose kids don't have shoes. When I was an electrician for many years, I didn't have the time to change the light bulb kind of thing.

[01:40:06] So although I do it, I don't do it on a regular basis. I'm not in there every day. I probably get on every time I feel that I need it or usually when Callie nudges me. Says, get on the Theraphi, every now and then. So I'm not on all the time. But I've also been exposed to it a lot.

[01:40:27] And I think when we do shows like we're at the biohacking Dave Asprey show while we're down here, we'll be at that booth, and Callie will be bringing people on and off the table all day long. So she gets like a full eight-hour long exposure all day long of people jumping on and off the table.

[01:40:47] Luke: It's probably very helpful to sustain your energy in that crowd.

[01:40:51] Paul: All the people she's had. Yeah, she's had like the biggest exposure to that.

[01:40:54] Luke: How far does the field emit? If someone's laying on the table, on the platform there, would there be any effect if you had a few people sitting in chairs around it, provided they weren't metal chairs?

[01:41:07] Paul: Yeah, there is. There's quite a field around it, and it can be about 20 feet in either direction all the way around, like a vesica. There's an overlapping two circles that are really toroids. There's a vesica in the center, and that's where the sweet spot is.

[01:41:25] That's when you're on the table. You want to have that from your Dantian energy, hara point, focal towards the center. But if you sat around the outside, you could definitely have more.

[01:41:38] Luke:  So she's definitely getting blasted by being next to the table all day.

[01:41:41] Paul: Yeah.

[01:41:44] Luke: I was wondering this and I forgot to ask Brandon. When he was over here and we did my session in the bedroom, that bedroom, as I said, is shielded, is Faraday caged. Do you think there's any positive impact to having that energy contained in a Faraday room?

[01:41:59] Paul: Yeah. Ideally, I always wanted to build a big Faraday room to have the Theraphi. And if I was to build an actual ideal location for it, that's what I'd have all organic natural materials, inside, in a well caged room on the outside.

[01:42:16] Luke: After he left, I was like, that could have either been worse or better. Do you want to let the energy leak out through the walls, or do you want it to reverberate into the space?

[01:42:27] Paul: And that's how I see it rings within the space.

[01:42:30] Luke: Right. On that note, you seem to be into the esoteric stuff, obviously. One thing that is also just this human error that I can't wait until we are able to look back and go, oh my God, what were we thinking? It's the way we build buildings, not just the electricity element, but the right angle

[01:42:50] Paul: The square.

[01:42:51] Luke: Yeah. Like the room we're in now. This is a nice house. I love my home, but I just have an intuitive sense that the energy would move better if everything was curved in the air. Do you think there's any truth to that? When we look at ancient cathedrals and especially buildings of worship, where there was a devotional, reverent intentionality in their design and construction, they're just different, and they feel different.

[01:43:21] When you walk in an ancient cathedral, granted, you might have a few hundred years of prayers in there. So there's something to that. But I think there's really something to the actual structural design. What's your take on that?

[01:43:34] Paul: Absolutely. And they'd have these spires and spirals and everything was based on torsion. So when you look at how charge bleeds, charge bleeds off from the corner. When you have sharp points, like on the top of a Tesla coil, you want a breakout point where your lightning's going to come off. You put a sharp point on it so that charge bleeds off of there.

[01:43:56] But it doesn't bleed off of the smooth toroid shape on the sides. So anytime you have sharp angles in a cubic structure, it's the corners of the building. So the ancient people, and especially in the East, got away from that by adding a curved or a spiral element to it.

[01:44:18] So on the edges of the temples, you would see that they would fold the corners back into themselves. So they have a little spiral on the roof structure, even though for the woodworker, it was a heck of a lot of work to integrate that thing and to put the clay shingles on or whatever to make it go back like that. And you're like, what is the purpose of that?

[01:44:37] Luke: In Asia, all the extra tile work to do, that curvature, it's like, wow, that looks like a pain in the ass to build.

[01:44:43] Paul: Yeah. And it's not just pretty. What it's doing is folding that charge back into itself to keep integrity of the charge inside of the building. So all those gothic cathedrals and everything, you look at them, they were all doing that.

[01:44:57] And then they were utilizing the spires or the spikes or the steeple as a wave guide too. So the wave guide between the grounding of the church, usually, you built your altar over top of a well and that well was often from an ancient pagan site that's been a ceremonial site for many years before the church came along and built these things or the Templars who came and built them for the churches.

[01:45:23] And they would utilize those spires and the spikes in the top of the cathedral to bring in the energy, like a wave guide to channel it through the congregation and then charge everything up with the organ and, bingo, away you go. You've got a terrified building, and it's charging the people and they're charging the congregation through all the same principles.

[01:45:49] Luke: And add to that the sacred sites, these energy spots that I'm sure there are people that can detect them now, but I have a feeling some of the ancient civilizations had a knack for finding these ley lines, these places where there's energetic intersections. The pyramids would be like one of the most obvious examples of that.

[01:46:11] And it's interesting to see throughout the-- who knows what of history is even real at this point. It's like, I don't really believe any of the narrative of history now, because more things are being revealed, Graham Hancock, guys like that that are alternative geologists and historians and whatnot.

[01:46:28] But one thing that is pretty clear in many places is there would be an ancient sacred site where there was a building pyramid, etc., and then some asshole conquerors would come in on their ships and come and overtake those people and just tear down their monolithic temples and just build their stuff right on top of it.

[01:46:48] Because they're like, well, this must be the good energy spot. It's like you wonder how many thousands of years the same spot has been utilized over and over again, because tapped-in humans at some point realized that this is the spot where the good energy is.

[01:47:03] Paul: Yeah, exactly. I love the old megalithic structures. Because you even see, this is not a modern phenomenon. You got the conquistadors come and tear down a Mayan pyramid and build a church. Yeah, that happens. But when you look back in time, it's been going on for a long time. When you go to the top of Machu Picchu, you see some of those ancient temples up there.

[01:47:28] You see all the different divisions of the stones. Whoever was making those first megalithic stones, they would form them like putty. They still squeezed together, and you couldn't put a credit card in between them, but somehow, they made rounded stones that squished together like playdough, and they built that foundation.

[01:47:47] Well, obviously their architecture structure was all like that at one time. That civilization got lost, and it got ripped down and torn. And then some other civilizations come along, and they were the really good stone cutters that could cut very square stone, like the Egyptian pyramids and all that, how they're all cut. And then they built on top of those rounded ones.

[01:48:08] And then the next ones came that weren't quite as good as precision cutting. And then the more recent people just stacked rocks on top of it to build a temple. But when you see those levels of the temple, those have been going for tens of thousands of years that the people built over top of temples, over top of temples.

[01:48:27] Luke: So interesting. It's one of those things in life that we have this desire to just understand and know the truth. And history to me like that is frustrating. It's like, God, no one's ever really sure. Everything is an estimate on different people's opinions based on who you're asking. But it's like, you have to be there to know, okay, this is what this building looked like. This is the purpose of it being built. These were the peoples that built it. We don't really know.

[01:48:59] Paul: It's all lost. Because I think we've had these major catastrophes. I think Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson and these guys are right. We've had these major calamities that have just wiped the population off the face of the earth. But there's also another thing where like in those big solar events, people get a little crazy too.

[01:49:19] A lot of people have been saying to me ever since the solar storm that they've noticed more violence. People have been more violent and stuff, and I think we're connected to that plasma that gets ejected from the sun. That field is heavily connected, and when there's a huge solar disruption, not only does it affect the weather on this planet. Look at what's been going on since this last big solar storm and the weather.

[01:49:44] But it affects our memory, and our memory is locked into that matrix as well. So I see it as being a dark plasma field around our bodies that our memory and our soul is connected to. And when it gets interfered with by huge electromagnetic storms like that, it can go a little off tilt kilter.

[01:50:06] So there's times in these major cataclysms have come about that our memory as an entire human race has been wiped out, and that's why we can't remember these things anymore.

[01:50:17] Luke: Interesting.

[01:50:19] Paul: That's kind of how I think about it.

[01:50:20] Luke: Wow. That's fascinating. That makes sense. I heard you and Matt Blackburn talking on his podcast, which is the only podcast I found you on. You have a lot of YouTube talks and recording stuff, which I highly recommend, but that was a great episode.

[01:50:36] I listened to it again yesterday for the second time, and his show is great. I listen to it a lot. We have similar kind of guests on, so I think it's a way for me to just be an audience member and not have to conduct the conversation. So shout out to Matt. Highly recommend his show.

[01:50:53] But one of the things that you guys were talking about when you talked about the nature of our buildings and all these right angles, I think Matt threw it out. He goes, yeah, it would be a great invention if someone came up with these little building components that are like--

[01:51:13] Paul: Could cap.

[01:51:14] Luke: Yeah. That you could cap all the corners in your house. I can't think of the word, but the concept came to me where it would be a triangle on one side and then just rounded concave on the side that faces you around the corner. Essentially, this is a great business opportunity for any entrepreneurs listening.

[01:51:33] It's going to take a while to market it because people are going to have to realize how much better they feel in a home. And I don't know how you scientifically provide the studies and the data to make a convincing sales pitch, but, man, if someone right now sold some little plaster caps that you could basically put in every corner of your house, I would buy them right in this moment.

[01:51:56] Do you think something like that would help what we're talking about, these energy leaks and all the right angles?

[01:52:03] Paul: Yeah, definitely. Especially if you could get it on the outside, it's going to be more complicated to get it on the outside, but yeah, you totally could.

[01:52:11] Luke: I'm thinking about one thing I miss in LA, is there's all these old Spanish homes. They were built in the '20s, '30s, and '40s. And most of the doorways will be arches, and everything is just more rounded, and there's something very soothing about that.

[01:52:26] Paul: In the '90s, they had octagonal and turrets and things like that, that manage the energy consciously.

[01:52:36] Luke: Right. So I'm like, I wonder if there is a way you could retrofit your house and undo some of that weird energy. So if anyone's listening, if you can visualize what I'm talking about, it's a little concave triangle that you pop in every corner of your house, and you could just paint it to match. You could caulk around it and just paint it whatever your house paint color is, and you wouldn't have to rebuild your house basically.

[01:53:02] I envision a time in the future, and there are some of these, those earthships in New Mexico. I'm seeing stuff on social media now where people are building domes to live in and just geometrically compatible buildings. I think there is emerging industry there, but it's slow going.

[01:53:24] So I'm like, whoa, we already have all these dumb buildings we built. Maybe we could retrofit some that are here, and then move forward. We can start to actually build biocompatible homes that are actually supportive energetically.

[01:53:37] Paul: Yeah, I visited one recently up in Vancouver, and this guy is building these places. He calls them the Fibonacci house, and it's like a golden mean spiral. The roof of the house is a curve, and it's all tin, and it's all one piece, interestingly enough. He's made his own machine to pump out this metal.

[01:53:58] It's really good for a snow load in that. Picture a trailer where it's square on one side and then it's just got this golden mean spiral that just goes over the porch and tapers down. But the really cool thing is you walk in this place, and because that back wall along the whole house is curved, it's this illusion, and it's white, and it just looks like it goes on forever. He says, people come into the house and they walk right into the wall.  They don't even know it's there.

[01:54:30] Luke: That's a cool visual effect. In photo and film studios, they have what's called a seamless. You can just have a paper roll that does it, and it gives you this infinite depth because there's obviously no corners or lines that you can see. And so it just looks like white space forever. Like a skateboard ramp, that kind of thing. Is this guy a commercial operator?

[01:54:57] Paul: Yeah. He was building these places for sale, and I think if you type in Fibonacci house Vancouver, you'll find them.

[01:55:04] Luke: Okay, cool. We'll put that in the show notes, again, at lukestorey.com/theraphi.

[01:55:09] Paul: I can send you the link.

[01:55:10] Luke: Okay. Epic.

[01:55:11] Paul: It's really cool.

[01:55:12] Luke: Oh, also, I want to mention for anyone out there now, the Theraphi is not an affordable technology for many people. Is it like 30 grand or something?

[01:55:21] Paul: Yeah. 30,000. Okay. Yeah.

[01:55:23] Luke: Okay. Yeah. Which is obviously a lot. You could send your kid to a year of shitty college almost for that. Just kidding. So I think there are certain people out there that have cracked the code of financial abundance and 30,000 is like, whatever. Yeah. I want one of those things.

[01:55:42] I have a healing center in my house, which is what I spend my money on personally. I don't really care about a lot of the, I don't know, material things in life, but I do like these type of technologies. So I'm a guy when I can afford it, I would buy one, hands down, not a second thought.

[01:56:02] So there's going to be people listening that are in that category. But I think what is a really interesting and exciting emerging trend are these wellness centers that are popping up where people put in a little capital, lease a space, make it beautiful and vibey and have things like the Theraphi, a float tank, your saunas, cold plunges, whatever, IVs, all this kind of stuff, a red light therapy.

[01:56:31] And it's really not that much money up front. You could probably get a business loan, fortify a small space, and you have a thriving business where you help people heal and restore themselves. And then you get to use all this stuff. It's probably what I'd be doing if I didn't do this, honestly.

[01:56:48] So I think that for people in that category that are entrepreneurs that have that kind of space, it's definitely something for them to look into. Now, if someone is not in either category, is there a way that people can try out the Theraphi in local-- do you have any directory of practitioners or anything?

[01:57:10] Paul: Yeah, on the theraphiusa.com, there's a whole list of practitioners. You could find somebody in your area. We like to call them therapists.

[01:57:21] Luke: That's great. That's great. I know in LA, there's Har Hari, as I said, at the Transformational Healing Universe, and I think businesses like that are cool. Because not only does not everyone have the money to buy all this stuff, but they might not want to spend their money on it. They just want to go do it once a month or once a week.

[01:57:39] And so I think that's super cool. You go in and pay your membership or pay for a session, and then it's like, you don't have to lug this stuff around. You let someone else have the liability of owning it and all that. And I'm really encouraged that there are more of these businesses popping up.

[01:57:58] So I think it's really helpful to a lot of people. For those also that want to learn more, if somebody wants to grab one of these things, you got that kind of coin laying around, you can go to theraphiusa.com and the code LUKE will get you free shipping, which I'm assuming probably isn't cheap because it's a big ass heavy device.

[01:58:19] Paul: It is.

[01:58:19] Luke: So that's something that I want to let people know. Last thing I want to cover is we talked about some of the positive effects on the human body, even people just sitting nearby. And I know you've done some experiments with germinating seeds and things like that. Tell me about some of the stuff you've done, putting other objects other than a human body in the Theraphi field and what those results have been.

[01:58:45] Paul: Yeah. Well, water is one of the biggest one. There seems to be some direct connection between water molecules and the resonance of the Theraphi and its effect. And that probably has a lot to do with how it's affecting your body as well as through the resonance of the water molecules.

[01:59:07] So we've done seed germination tests and just taking seeds. A, it increases this seed germination rate. So if you had 100 seeds, 10 of them aren't going to pop. In the Theraphi, it seems like those 10 pop. It gets pretty close to 99% germination.

[01:59:22] It also goes very quickly. Some seeds that take a week to actually start sprouting, get their little cotyledons out, we've seen happen in like a day or two. It's like, this is weird.

[01:59:34] Luke: Wow. That's cool.

[01:59:34] Paul: Yeah. It's an accelerator for growth. We've done some cannabis trials with some of the neighboring cannabis companies. Increases the vegetative stage really quickly. So it grows out the plants very quick into vegetation.

[01:59:53] Luke: Make some bud faster?

[01:59:55] Paul: More in the leafing. Gets their leaves bigger and hardier, which apparently is what these guys want. They want the bigger, hardier leaves, and then they stop putting the Theraphi with the plants because the buds change. So from what I understand, it makes for better leafy things. So it might be really good for-- we haven't done any vegetable type trials yet, but I'm thinking lettuces.

[02:00:18] Luke: I got a name for this. Ganjaphi.

[02:00:22] Paul: Ganjaphi. Yeah. There we go.

[02:00:24] Luke: I have a guy on the show tomorrow, Ryan Sprague, who's a cannabis advocate. Uses cannabis ceremonially like other plant medicines. So I'm really interested to talk to him about that. It sounds like a bizarre concept because weed makes me feel just insane. I used to use it a lot, and it's been many, many years. I've had a couple accidental classic these-edibles-ain't-shit moments.

[02:00:51] Yeah. I was like, okay, wow. I have no choice but to just have it. I'm just going to put on an eye mask and a playlist and hope for the best. I have a hard time with that, but it is exciting to me to see this beautiful plant that has so much potential.

[02:01:10] Paul: Absolutely. When I was a kid, I was the biggest advocate for it. I was like, this plant will save the world. And yeah, I'm glad it came to. Unfortunately, it came to legalization. It should have never been legalization-- like Peter Tosh, legalize it. I didn't realize the implications that would come along with legalization because that's just laws, and you're still tied to the laws.

[02:01:34] The way they should have done it was just decriminalized it because it's not a criminal activity. It's from the nature of God and from nature. It's a natural plant. Shouldn't have been illegal in the first place, but that's my pet peeve about legalization, is that legalization just put more laws around it.

[02:01:53] Luke: I don't know. There are a few things as absurd to me as--

[02:01:59] Paul: As making a plant illegal.

[02:02:01] Luke: Yeah. A group of humans enforcing with violence and kidnapping and imprisonment by the use of force. One group of people prohibiting another group of people from taking something out of the ground and putting it in their body. What is happening? You got to be kidding me.

[02:02:24] Paul: Yeah, that's right.

[02:02:25] Luke: Now I don't know where you draw the line. Something like crystal meth, maybe bad idea. But still, I believe in personal autonomy, especially with something like that.

[02:02:35] Paul: It's their body. Their choice.

[02:02:36] Luke: Yeah, a mushroom, a plant, like, what is--

[02:02:40] Paul: I think those laws were put in more place as a controlling measure to keep people from waking up. Because I know the first time I smoked marijuana, I went, ooh, things are not quite what they seem.

[02:02:53] Luke: Yeah.

[02:02:54] Paul: Oh, we've been duped. That was my first thing. It's like, I've been lied to. I've been lied to. That was one of my first heavy realizations. I was very young. Of course, I studied all the plants. We had a really good library, and of course just saying no to drugs was a big thing back then, so the librarians had stocked the library in my elementary school with every drug book there is.

[02:03:18] By the time I was in grade 6, I knew the pharmacopeia of everything from cocaine to marijuana. And it was a cool story because when I was in grade 6 walking along these fences going home from school, I looked down at these plants somebody was growing in their backyard, and I said to my friend, that's cannabis sativa. You can clip the aerial portions of the plant, and you smoke it, and it gives you a euphoric effect. And my buddy's like, fuck off. I'm like, yeah, no, I read about this in the book.

[02:03:48] Luke: Yeah. That's funny, dude.

[02:03:50] Paul: It's like, yeah, let's try it out.

[02:03:52] Luke: I remember in the '80s with the just say no propaganda, I was a huge weed smoker when I was a kid, even before I was a teenager, but especially when I was a teenager. And you'd go to the doctor's office, and there'd be these pamphlets that were these anti-weed pamphlets that would say how it would make boys grow breasts. It didn't stop me.

[02:04:13] I was like, hey, if I got to buy a bra, it's worth it. I'm going to keep smoking weed. But yeah, there was all this crazy propaganda about the brain damage and all this stuff. It's just like, oh my God. So then to your point, you think about what's the motive? The motive has to be the control of consciousness. They don't want people waking up.

[02:04:34] There's another really funny law, which is Huachuma San Pedro that contains mescaline, similar to peyote, and in this state, for example, you can go to the nursery and buy San Pedro cactuses. We have a bunch of them. I'm growing a bunch.

[02:04:53] Paul: I've seen them at Walmart.

[02:04:54] Luke: Yeah. They're illegal to grow and possess. But if you carve off a piece of it and eat it, you've now in possession of whatever class drug. It's insanity. It's insane. So you told me like, if I walk out in the desert and I chop off a piece of this cactus and make a tea out of it and do my thing, now I'm breaking the law? It's insane. It's just absolutely retarded. There's no other word for it.

[02:05:21] Paul: That's the difference between natural law and man's laws.

[02:05:24] Luke: Yeah. I've been doing a lot of shows on common law and things like that lately. And just getting an understanding of this matrix of codes and statutes that's been super imposed on our society.

[02:05:40] It's really interesting stuff. It's very dense, and it's like, whoa, do I really want to go down this rabbit hole? Because I don't think you can ever learn it all. There's so many layers of complexity to it, but underneath it is just the common sense of, I don't know. It's like the 10 Commandments or the Golden Rule.

[02:05:56] It's like, that's pretty much the only thing we need to follow in order for society to function in a healthy and productive manner. Everything else is noise and control and ultimately collectivism, and all its permutations, whether it's socialism, communism, whatever ism.

[02:06:14] Paul: Whatever isms there are.

[02:06:15] Luke: Don't hurt other people. Don't steal their shit. Don't defraud them. Don't damage them or their property.

[02:06:22] Paul: It's simple. We'll all get along.

[02:06:26] Luke: Go eat some cactus if you feel like it, but just don't run over your neighbor's kid while you're on it.

[02:06:34] Paul: Yeah.

[02:06:35] Luke: Well, hot damn, dude. Thank you so much for such a beautiful conversation. I knew from listening to your other talks, we're just going to have so much fun.

[02:06:43] Paul: Yeah. Thanks, Luke.

[02:06:44] Luke: Yeah. It's always just fascinating meeting someone like you. And I will give you another compliment, and that is, from the moment you two walked in, and I had a sense that this would be the case, you have such a grounded, peaceful, benevolent energy about you. It's really nice to spend time with you.

[02:07:05] Paul: Yeah, you do too. I think we noticed that too when we came in. It was like, oh, there's this feel. That's common. That's good harmonic resonance.

[02:07:13] Luke: Yeah. And you guys were an hour early, so I wasn't ready. I'm half-naked out in the sun, getting in the ice bath. I come in on my towel, like, oh, hey, want some tea? So yeah, it's fun. It's just great to have the conversation started. It's funny because you were an hour early, but it still started 12 o'clock on the nose, which is pretty probably the first time I've ever started right on time. So it's a great demonstration of just being in the flow and allowing things to be what it is.

[02:07:41] Paul: Thanks for having me.

[02:07:42] Luke: Yeah. And thanks for your commitment to innovation and putting something that's really transformative out in the world, man.

[02:07:49] Paul: Awesome.