[00:00:00]Luke Storey:  I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Aubrey Marcus, welcome back, dude.

[00:00:27]Aubrey Marcus:  Thanks, brother. Good to be here, man.

[00:00:28]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I think this is your third time on the show because you came to my house in LA once, then we did want it on it. This will be the third one. Welcome back. God, so much has changed in the time since I first met you. Oh, my God. I can't wait to hear what's changed for you. I mean, I know a couple of them.

[00:00:45]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah, quite a bit.

[00:00:46]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I know a couple of those things, but, God, what an interesting journey it's been to think back of that day you came to my house. I mean, I was just a completely different person, completely different life experience at that point. So, that's been cool to watch your evolution and cool to experience mine. And that's what we're going to catch up on. So, last time you were on the show, you were in a relationship with a woman named Whitney and it was a two-person show, a two-guest show. And we were talking about the ins and outs of open relationships. Yeah. And then, shortly after that, I think, right around the time that I put the episode out, that relationship changed forms and was no longer a romantic partnership. 

[00:01:27]Aubrey Marcus:  Kind of. 

[00:01:29]Luke Storey:  How did that really go? 

[00:01:31]Aubrey Marcus:  We officially ended the "relationship" because it just wasn't really working out, but very much just stayed in a relationship, right?

[00:01:42]Luke Storey:  Got it.

[00:01:42]Aubrey Marcus:  So, like nomenclature change, and there were pauses and hiatuses, but we both loved each other a lot. And I think there was some emotional and physical addictions to each other in many ways. And so, we kept on doing some form of some dance or another even after that. So, it's been, I don't know, 18 months since we split up, maybe more. I mean, like close to two years since we "broke up". But it's really been less than a year since we stopped seeing each other entirely. 

[00:02:21] So, yeah, I guess two years ago, we broke up, and then in February, that was when we actually fully finally called it off. So, yes and no. There was a dance. It was an incredibly beautiful, challenging, all the things, experience to be in that polyamorous relationship. Forever grateful and I'll forever love Whitney. But yeah, that's no easy thing, not only to be in it, but also, to get out of it. And it was an interesting thing.

[00:02:56]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I remember during that conversation and any conversation I have on the show, I always enter into with as much open-mindedness as I can possibly muster. And I'm certainly in most ways not a traditionalist in the ways in which I live my life. People that listen to the show might have guessed that. I'm probably living my life quite differently than your average person in so many ways, right? But in listening to that, I remember some of the accounts of your subjective experience as the male partner in the relationship and some of the things that you endured or experienced as a result of being in that dynamic.

[00:03:35] And I remember during that conversation, and obviously, we'll put it in the show notes for people that want to go back and retroactively listen to it, but I remember just going, oh, my God, not in a million years would I put myself through that. And I've done that. I mean, I was a non-monogamous guy for a long, long time. And I've only had the past couple of relationships. I've been really interested in that type of commitment that I'm in now with Alison. 

[00:03:58] And so, I get it from that perspective because I think my perspective of freedom as a primary value was based on a different interpretation of freedom, if you know what I mean. So, it's freedom, like do what I want, when I want, have sex with whoever I want. Like that's one level of freedom, but there's another level of freedom that I'm discovering, which is the freedom to really be seen, to really see other, like at a complete depth of vulnerability, and safety, and just a different kind of love than I've ever experienced, a higher love, to quote Steve Winwood. 

[00:04:38] In terms of the relationship that you're in now, is there ever a part of you that thinks, ah, I wish I could go back and try it this other way, or are you finding that same kind of inner freedom where, I don't know, for me, it's almost like a sigh of relief. Just like [making sound] I don't have to worry about any of this complicated shit, I can just like focus my love on one person and just completely be enraptured by that. What's your experience like with all that?

[00:05:05]Aubrey Marcus:  Well, to catch people up. So, I got married to an amazing woman who I've really been in love with for a long time. And I feel like if I had a lotto ticket and it had a hundred numbers on it, and it was a hundred-number lottery, I just got a hundred out of a hundred. I mean, it's the most implausible, beautiful thing that I could possibly imagine. 

[00:05:26]Luke Storey:  She's very special.

[00:05:27]Aubrey Marcus:  She is. 

[00:05:28]Luke Storey:  I'm going to give some of my experience of her, for sure. 

[00:05:30]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. So, that happened this year and it's been the greatest blessing of my life, no doubt. That said, you asked the question, is there some part of you that still thinks like, oh, yeah, polyamory would be interesting or I'm still interested in that? And I would say, yes, there's some small part of me and I can let you guess which small part of me that is that still feels that, right?

[00:05:58]Luke Storey:  Hopefully, not too small, in fairness.

[00:06:01]Aubrey Marcus:  Indeed. So, at that, of course, there's some carnal excitement about novelty and carnal desires when you see somebody beautiful. It's not like I recognize beauty and my own attraction to other ceases entirely. But it's that there's a conscious knowing and a conscious choice that I'm not interested in pursuing that. That's not something that I have any desire to actually pursue. One, because I know the road that that goes. And I could not even bear it with Vylana to follow that road, nor would I want to put her through it.

[00:06:39] I've been there. I've done that. And what we have is so beautiful. The cost of trying to pursue that would so greatly outweigh the benefit that it's not even a question. So, I know that it's a conscious choice, and it's a conscious choice that I willingly and gladly make. It's not a restriction or an impingement on my freedom. It's a choice. And it's a choice I make with a fucking smile. And it's an informed choice. And I think if I hadn't tried polyamory, I'm sure, over time, perhaps, too, that feeling will even grow. 

[00:07:13] Well, desire novelty, even more. But no matter how much it grows, it will never reach the point where the benefit of that would outweigh the cost because I know the cost. I've lived it. I've been there. And I'm so grateful that I have that knowledge, because I might wonder, I might get into the philosophical idea which drew me into polyamory in the first place, of love and freedom. The sun does not judge which one deserves its warmth, in which one doesn't. The sun just shines. And that's the way of love. And that's why polyamory makes the most sense. We should be free to love.

[00:07:48] No one should be anyone's pleasure dealer. Pleasure is universal. Like I actually believe all those things. I think that's all true. However, we're human beings, and human beings are not perfect divine beings. We are. And we're also messy and grubby humans, like we're both. And it's both beautiful, and in the totality, it's all perfect. But to disregard the humanness and just spiritually bypass to our divine nature, it doesn't make any sense. So, now that I really understand the landscape fully, my choice is pure, and true, and unshakable, because I really feel like I know what I'm choosing, and it's so worth it.

[00:08:31]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's, I think, a common experience for many of us that have read Sex at Dawn, ethical slide. It's like anyone I know that read those books is like, oh, God, I've been doing this all wrong. You could just do whatever you want. We're animals. And I'm not discounting or judging anyone that still chooses that life way, because God knows, I did it for a long time and it was completely unavailable to anything other than that for a number of reasons. But I think that in my experience, I don't know, it's almost like it's happened to me, you know what I mean?

[00:09:06] The transition from that other perspective of freedom, and in terms of the value that I placed on sexuality in general, it's just so much different now. And it wasn't a difference that I did. It wasn't like I pulled myself up from my bootstraps, and was like, you know what, Luke, you're 48, it's time to grow up. It's just like, all of a sudden—That wasn't all of a sudden. There were a few interactions I had that were of the casual nature, and I would be in the middle of it, going like, I don't actually like this. 

[00:09:42] What's happening to me? And it's a bit jarring when for my whole adult life since 1986 to whenever this was a few years ago, this started to kind of get dismantled for me, it was really weird, and I thought, wrong person, try another one. And then, the same kind of thing would have happened. Just interactions that should have been hot but weren't. And just kind of as you said, the word messy, kind of just messy, and like, oh, this doesn't feel good. 

[00:10:08] Morally, it wasn't feeling good, even though I was being honest and wasn't being manipulative, I think, in any way, or seductive, or playing any weird games, like fully straight-up interactions where there was transparency, and I think compassion, and honesty, and yet still being in it, and after it, going like, it doesn't feel right, what is happening to me? And that started to happen to me, really, after a few years of Kundalini yoga. 

[00:10:35] And as I moved through that and made a couple ill-fated—well, I don't want to say ill-fated, a couple of painful lessons in relationships, where I felt like I wanted a higher connection, but I didn't know how to select a partner who was able to meet me there and I was not able to meet myself there. But I had a yearning for a deeper connection and a higher love. And I think what happened was, through that work of going through those chakras for eight freaking years, almost every day for 90 minutes a day in that practice, is that I really started moving up the energy centers into the higher centers.

[00:11:15] It's not even like, oh, I'm evolved. It's just, I'm literally moving the energy to different places physiologically. And when I did that, I could not disconnect my heart from whatever that second chakra is. They became intrinsically connected and they could not separate even if I willed them so, because I wanted to have just an animalistic, pleasurable experience. And what a harsh transition that was for me and a few other people that I hope I've made complete amends to. But that was my experience.

[00:11:49] It was just like, huh, something happened to me. I changed. So, when I interviewed you and Whitney last time, like you guys seemed really happy, seemed really solid. Your case for the relationship, if you could call it that, seemed to be integris. And there were lessons being learned between the two of you as an observer that I understood fully, but also, had no interest in participating in any more of that. As an example, I don't remember the details, but something like this super hot, rich, buff guy was like sleeping with your girl, and you just kind of had to be home.

[00:12:22]Aubrey Marcus:  I mean, which one?

[00:12:23]Luke Storey:  Yeah. You're just home chillin, like, oh, I wonder if she's coming home tonight. Maybe not. I'm just like, oh, my God, that's the ultimate nightmare for me once I had started to open my heart and become vulnerable, which was terrifying. And I was really a late bloomer in that way.

[00:12:38]Aubrey Marcus:  Well, the premise that allowed me to continue at it was the premise that this is just the painful process of me growing. Like if you're in an ayahuasca sit, and it gets hard, and it's gnarly in there, and all the darkness from the cosmos is coming down and pouring in through your crown, and you're having to reckon it, as it's meeting you in all the places you feel guilty, or shameful, or whatever is happening, there's growth on the other side from this, right? 

[00:13:05] And I was experiencing that growth, so I was just like, oh, well, it's still hurting, means there's still work to do, and I'm just going to stick at it. So, whatever the challenge the next guy brings, okay, Whitney is deeply in love with this guy, or this guy is really aggressive, or this guy's manipulating her and there's nothing I can do about it, all of the horrors that I've had to face was just another opportunity for me to show up a different way, find that deeper, grounded, unconditional love, and support, and allyship, and still maintain vulnerability in the blistering pain. 

[00:13:43] Like there was always a growth edge. And I still think that's, in my mind, one of the most beneficial aspects of polyamory, is it's going to push you right up against your growth edge and you will grow. But ultimately, I had to realize that there are other ways to learn. There are other ways to learn besides this pain teacher. And certainly, for me, I could have continued to learn from the pain teacher. And that's not to say there wasn't amazing love there with Whitney. There was as well, but there was a hefty dose of the pain teacher in there.

[00:14:17] And I was never fully able to overcome it as much as I tried over those six years. But there are other ways to learn. And now, I'm learning from the love teacher. This is like love, and safety, and security, and divine union teacher. And like I'm learning at the pace, and the lessons, and in the style that I really want to learn from to carry me to the next level. So, I'm still learning, but I'm not learning through struggle. I'm learning through pain. And I think a lot of times, we have this idea that the only way for us to learn is from the pain teacher, but it's not. 

[00:14:54]Luke Storey:  So true. God. That's beautiful, man. Thank you for that reflection. I relate to that so deeply in my relationship now and I'm aware of it while it's happening. I'll have a moment where I just look in Alyson's eyes, and I just sit there, especially since last Wednesday. I'm like, God, I'm chomping at the bit to get to the real part of the podcast, honestly, none of this shit matters from that place. But there are moments where I just stop, and I just look in her eyes, and that winning the lottery feeling comes over me, and I just go, oh, my God, I'm safe.

[00:15:36] This is a safe person and I'm safe in and of my own autonomy. And what does that safety mean? That safety means, there's no limit to the love that I can experience within myself, and that I can allow in, and that I can spill out. It's just like this vast expression of the most pure love. And in that is so much medicine, so much teaching, and so much healing just in that acknowledgment and that connection, and that's one way of healing and learning. The other way is keep attracting partners that mirror the flavor of trauma you endured as a kid, right? 

[00:16:26]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. 

[00:16:27]Luke Storey:  Ah, this feels so fucking hot. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like this. This is right. This is right, man. This is the one. No, it's familiar. It's familiar. Reminds me of Mommy. Reminds me of Daddy. Reminds me of auntie, uncle, teacher, cop, whatever, right? And there is a learning in that, but goddamn, so much suffering. That said, I guess that I wouldn't be able to have the learning that I just described in that more divine type of learning had I not really like beat the other pignata to death, you know what I mean?

[00:17:05]Aubrey Marcus:  I wonder. That's a question, right? Because both of us have learned so much from that. And I think most people here. And when we do have pain, the choice to make that a teacher, the choice to alchemize it into growth is always the right choice. However, from a philosophical standpoint, is it necessary to learn through that mirroring process, through going and reexperiencing the pain so that you can see the pain that you have? Maybe. I think, typically, it has been. 

[00:17:33] But I just wonder, like I wonder if perhaps Vylana and I had gotten together earlier, 10 years ago, and all the things that I learned from pain in the last 10 years, maybe I would have been able to learn them the other way. Like reverse engineering from love. Like I wonder if that's possible. And I think I mentioned that because I think a lot of us have this bias towards, well, the pain is productive and we almost like welcome it, because those of us on the path of growth want to grow more than anything, and we're willing to endure the pain. 

[00:18:07] And that's part of the warrior spirit. And I think that's all great. But I just want to throw that out there that I'm not convinced that you couldn't get every lesson possible from love. because ultimately, where we're going with this story, we dropped into the place of the ultimate love, capital L of all capital L loves, where there's nothing but love. It's just divine unicity, right? That place of connection and look at everything. And not that there wasn't pain as we tried to assimilate that and that there was another things that come up, but that, in and of itself, is such a teacher.

[00:18:45] MDMA has been such a teacher for so many people in healing their trauma in that way rather than other different ways. So, I just think that there's many ways to do it. And I don't think we should limit ourselves to thinking it has to be hard, because if we have that story, we'll find the things that are hard. We'll self-select for the hard path. And you're welcome to it. We've done it and we've done all right with it. And there is some grit that comes and there are some benefits of choosing that. But I just want to just open that up to people that perhaps love can ultimately teach you everything you need.

[00:19:22]Luke Storey:  That's a powerful distinction, and I'd like to think so, too. I'm reflecting on that as you're describing that as an alternative, and it's like, the thought that came to mind was, what's given me, I believe, or so I think, a lot of my depth and my ability to really relate with people on a heart level, and just an immense well of empathy and compassion is all of the suffering that I've experienced. But perhaps, in what you're saying, there's a shorter way to that end goal, which is like, what if we just went straight to the compassion, and the depth, and the love, and the empathy, because love, obviously, is inclusive of all of that.

[00:20:08] And so, if we explore ways to get to the end goal, which of course is what we're describing, not being in love with a person, but being in love in and of itself, that perhaps it is an old idea and an old paradigm that we have to suffer in order to get there. I think about like my early recovery when I first got sober. And it is what it is. I can't go back in time. I'm grateful it all worked out the way it worked out. 

[00:20:35] But I mean, Jesus Christ, dude, if you just put me in an ayahuasca ceremony at 30 days or something, I mean, honestly, you don't know, you can never know, but I feel like I could have saved myself years, and years, and years of pain, of trying to medicate my trauma in other ways that eventually ended up being almost, and sometimes, as destructive as the drug habit. It's just like, ah, I could've just gotten to love and gotten to that deep level of healing, so much of that meandering, and all of the sloppiness, and the damage done to other people along the way could have just been like [making sound] but is what it is.

[00:21:12]Aubrey Marcus:  And I think that's the paradigm we're entering now, where we're starting to see that the old constructs, all the old constructs are up for review. Doesn't mean that we need to discard them, but when you look at what's happening in the psychedelic medicine space in particular, let's take the map studies on MDMA treatment for PTSD. They're showing that they're curing two out of three treatment-resistant cases of PTSD in phase two, phase three clinical trials with legalization, imminent, fast-tracked by the FDA.

[00:21:43] So, what they're showing is these are treatment-resistant people who are typically on 10 to 12 different pharmaceutical interventions and have no hope of recovery. It's treatment-resistant. Nothing is working. And they're having three sessions. Two out of every three of them are not only treating their trauma, they're curing it. And in the follow-up studies and the follow-up analysis, it keeps getting better. There's a trauma score and the trauma score keeps going down.

[00:22:12] It's already below the threshold, won't even qualifies as trauma, but even years later, it goes down even more. So, how many years have they been on this pharmaceutical cocktail trying to manage these symptoms, trying to deal with the struggle, and then they go through their three MDMA-assisted psychotherapy sessions, and they're cured, at least two out of every three of them. And that's just a new paradigm. It's a brand new paradigm. And I think that that idea can be applied to everything. Like there is ways that we don't have to suffer along the same path that we used to. Like these quantum leaps are available. And just to keep a keen eye out for that, and be like, hmm, I wonder if this is an old story about how to do it and whether there's a new story.

[00:23:00] I think people like Joe Dispenza are another way that they're providing that new story, where you're just putting yourself in signaling to the body the emotional reality of the place you want to be in your health, in your finance, in your emotion, whatever you want to be, you live in that way. And then, it magnetically attracts that reality from an epigenetic, in signaling, in cellular, in cosmic way, you end up creating that reality by your attraction to being in that reality in your emotional state. And like that's a paradigm shifting quantum leap to what the old way, which is matter, moving matter, and he talks about that all the time. 

[00:23:40] Slow for matter to move matter, but when you can use your thought and belief to move matter, which is not up for debate, it certainly does, it's the placebo and nocebo effect that we all know so well. When you can get to that place, then things can happen fast. And that's really exciting to think about like, man, nothing that we thought was a hard boundary, maybe not nothing, but a lot of the things we thought were a hard boundary may not be hard boundaries anymore. There may be ways to just cut straight to it.

[00:24:10]Luke Storey:  Oh, man, that's so good. There are so many different threads there that I want to unravel. Speaking of Joe Dispenza, when I got back in his work in the past couple of years, I'd kind of forgotten about that movie, What the Bleep Do We Know? Do you remember that? 

[00:24:24]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah.

[00:24:24]Luke Storey:  It was this documentary, we'll put it in the show notes, basically about quantum physics, just kind of like making quantum physics accessible as a spiritual tool. And I remember seeing that movie and Joe was one of the people in it when he was quite a bit younger. And I remember seeing that, going, yes, and it's too far off. Like the ability to operate in the way that's been described in that, like there wasn't a part of me that said, no, that's bullshit, that's not true. 

[00:24:56] It was just like, man, we're really far from that, as a species and interpersonally. I mean, my own relationship to that was like, I get it, and it rings true intuitively. But, man, give me 50 years. And now, it's so funny because I'm assuming if people like us went and watch that movie, we'd be like, duh, yeah, this is like a 101 shit, man. We've gone way beyond this, right? And of course, Joe's work has grown immensely and affected so many people, including me and sounds like you, but that, I think, we really are on the brink of something so miraculous, and especially with the popularity, for lack of a better word, of these plant medicine and psychedelic experiences.

[00:25:41] Of course, it's a slippery slope. We'll get into that, but I mean, I am just like floored at how much my life has changed in the past couple of years, man. And it's not just because I took a certain molecule into my bloodstream. It's also the framework of all the boots on the ground, hard work that I did for all of those years, honestly, to be able to intuitively understand integration and application of the downloads, not just like, oh, well, that was fun, back to being an asshole.

[00:26:09] It's like, what was that thing I didn't want to look at? Let's look at it now, and really, really getting in there in a fun way, though, right? Like have fun with the trauma. Have fun with the pain. Have fun with the tears. Have fun with the shadow. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go in this, let's go in. Oh, it's kind of scary. Let's go. But we really are now, I think, emerging as this, David Hawkins used to call, the conscious human—what did he call it? It wasn't Homo sapiens because we already had that. Homo spiritist, I think, was this term that he used for this emerging consciousness and this bump in evolution that we seem to be having. 

[00:26:50] And this is where guys like you and I can kind of embrace our animal nature, and go, yeah, I'm still kind of a dumbass human, and I'm also infinite, and I'm also God, and I'm also infinite potentiality of expression, of consciousness, and of self. Wow. This conversation's getting really interesting. And I do think that we have the opportunity to—shortcut's the wrong word because it implies cheating. I think we have a grace cut now. There's grace in the air. There's an ambience of the unseen hand going, come on, you guys, come on. You can do this, come on, go this way. So beautiful.

[00:27:32]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah, it feels like magic. It feels like in that scene in Game of Thrones when the Dragons were birthed back in the Westeros, and then everybody's magic came online, the wizards who could make a small flame with their fingers can now juggle fireballs, right? I was like, there's this acceleration that's happened and it seems to be allowing us to move faster than we have before in any time in history from a spiritual standpoint. And I think there are pitfalls that we have to watch out for.

[00:28:03] There's the valuing the spirit above the body, which is an abnegation and a denial that the body is spirit in form. And so, there are ways that we can create, through spiritual materialism, different hierarchy and different value structures, which are basically the same thing rehashed with a different scorecard that we've experienced for the last 5,000 years, where this class is better than this class.

[00:28:27] There are caveats and little warnings in areas that we can kind of smooth out, but our ability to be that full spectrum Homo spiritist, as he's saying, which is man and spirit, a human, and spirit woman, and spirit, all in combination, celebrating all of those aspects so that we're that full bridge from both sides, from the most visceral carnal animal to the most ethereal, angelic, spiritual, both, and just be like, alright, here we are, and this is awesome, because this is why we're here, because we can all just choose pure spirit and not take form. Well, obviously, we didn't choose that. Well, why didn't we choose that? Well, because there's real value. This is an incredible opportunity to be a person. So, let's celebrate that and celebrate your spiritual side, because both are true and both are what we chose, at least in my world. Yeah. 

[00:29:25]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I think this is something really healthy that's now coming to light a bit in, for lack of a better term, what could be called the biohacking community, which, a lot of the stuff I do is in that space, I guess, as reluctant as I am about it, as you got some insight into the other day. To me, like all this shit is this kind of novelty. It's just fun toys to play with, things to do, and see what you can do with your body. And it's like learning how to work on your car and becoming an expert self-mechanic kind of. 

[00:29:54] But I think a lot of people in the beginning of that, and maybe people that are newer to physical optimization and stuff get caught up in the low-hanging fruit, and sort of the illusion that if I just get fit enough, or antiaging enough, or biohacked enough, then I'm going to have this sense of purpose and fulfillment, right? Like if my HRV scores are right, holy shit, my blood work's on point, then I'm going to be at that end goal, which is easeness and being okay with your easeness.

[00:30:25] So, that's like the extreme of that, of just going full in all physical being. And then, what you were alluding to, I think, I experienced a lot of my early days of spirituality with some of the meditation teachers that were super out of shape, and just kind of ate shitty food, and didn't look vibrant or vital, and didn't have that like prana happening, but were very wise, and very still, and very spiritual, truly. So, I think there is a sweet spot of balance that we can find in working in both. 

[00:31:00] And it seems to me that a lot more people are waking up to both of those. A guy like Ben Greenfield who's like, look at my abs, and then next thing you know, he's doing his Sunday Bible study blog posts, and talking about God and spirituality, and taking plant medicines, and emphasizing how important journaling is, and all of these kind of things, to give a lot of a lot of people coming from that side that are going, oh, we need to pay attention to the big picture.

[00:31:25]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. Dorian Yates talking about ayahuasca. Mike Tyson talking about Bufo 5-MeO-DMT everywhere he goes, right? 

[00:31:33]Luke Storey:  I want to sit with that dude. 

[00:31:37]Aubrey Marcus:  So, the old boundaries are all evaporating, and now, people are understanding that our birthright is all of it. Like it's all of it.

[00:31:48]Luke Storey:  Alright. In the interest of time here, let me see, dude, I got you for an hour. Alright. Good. Oh, Cole's in our thing, I'm trying to learn how to use this app Clubhouse, and I don't think I know how. So, if anyone hears me on clubhouse, I'm here with Aubrey Marcus. And this is being recorded, Cole told me the other day that you're supposed to say that for some reason. So, hi, Cole. Hi, everyone. We could talk about this next thing until the cows come home, but I did want to catch up with you, because last time we talked about the relationship thing and Vylana is in the picture, who I got to experience in the most profound way last week.

[00:32:26] And so, I definitely wanted to cover that, just kind of get updated. But I mean, where do I want to start with this? So, for those listening, Aubrey and I, well, he didn't participate so much, but helped facilitate an experience the other day at a retreat center of sorts, where I smoked the DMT toad again the second time, 5-MeO-DMT, Bufo alvarius toad. This poison is excreted from this particular toad. 

[00:32:55] Out of all the hundreds of species of toad, this one makes this special goo that can be scraped off, set the toads free, I might add, no need to kill the toads, you collectors, dry it, put it in what is basically a crack or crystal meth pipe, and take one hit, and your entire fucking life is never the same. Never, ever, ever again. And so, this happened the other day with you. And, oh, my God. Thank you so much.

[00:33:28]Aubrey Marcus:  You're welcome, brother.

[00:33:28]Luke Storey:  Thank you so much. So embarrassing to my ego, I cry in almost every one of my goddamn podcast. It's the downfall of like wanting to talk about real stuff, but just to share that space with you and just to have you bear witness to my process, which was so bizarre. I mean, oh, my God. I think I said this after, toward the end of the ceremony and kind of the sharing circle of one, it's almost like I don't even want to talk about it, because it's not that it dilutes it or discounts the experience, it's almost futile. 

[00:34:13] Because you're talking about a realm that is in one way so far removed from what we're doing here and in one way is everything we're doing here. But I'll give my version of this story, and then I want to find out, for sure, some of your experiences around it. But I just got to kind of unpack this with you, because it's just been so, so incredibly beautiful for the past, almost a week, I guess it was maybe five days ago. And for the people listening, before I do this, I would like to preface, in case I forget later, I do not recommend these experiences for all people at all times. 

[00:34:50] It is something you have to be called with, called to, to educate yourself, to properly vet, set, setting people that are serving the whole thing, man. We're getting into like some, whoo, what could be very wonky territory, if not done extremely mindfully. And I have a friend who got pretty overzealous with the experiences, and is having a really hard time coming back. And he's a beautiful, and talented, and extremely intelligent guy who is a fully integrated human. 

[00:35:24] This is not like a wacko that like took too much acid and got more wacky. This is a regular guy like you and me, took a couple kind of sketchy turns and is having a tough time. So, I have to say that. Yet, I have to be honest, I don't have to do anything, but I choose to be honest, and in that experience and in the integration of that, which is full-on, by the way, nonstop ever since, it's hard for me to fathom that there are human beings out amongst us right now that will live an entire lifetime and not have that experience.

[00:36:05] It's really difficult for me to get my head around that and accept that that is not karmically everyone's opportunity. And the other part of me is, I wish everyone listening to this podcast would go do this immediately, but don't, you know what I'm saying? I'm just being honest. Just like, oh, my God, but I know that's completely irresponsible. But because my experience is what it is doesn't mean that someone else's is going to be. And this would have been my second ceremony with the toad. 

[00:36:39] The first time, obviously, groundbreaking, to say the least. But for some reason, I was not able to perceive a lasting change that was so obvious and impossible to ignore the first time. It was just like, whoa, okay, that got my attention. But it wasn't at least perceivable that everything had changed and nothing would ever be the same, which is the way it is right now. So, maybe it was a stacking effect, maybe the change was there, but not perceivable. Who knows?

[00:37:12] It doesn't really matter. But what happened for me that day was that every spiritual truth I've ever studied became—so hard to articulate. Bear with me, guys. I know this is probably boring. Hang in there. Every spiritual teaching of non-duality, the Vedas, the deepest spiritual teaching, even when I was still using drugs, I remember skimming through a book called I Am That, which was the transcripts of lectures by Nisargadatta Maharaj. And even in my absolute unconsciousness, I would read bits of that, and go, like a caveman seeing fire for the first time, like, that, that, that, that, yeah, what is that truth?

[00:38:05] I know that, but I don't even understand when I'm reading, kind of thing, you know. And then, now, I mean, not to get into a spiritual ego, but I could read that and get it. Like yeah, I get non-duality. I get it. But I don't have it as an experience. In the initial, what can best be described as blastoff, I understood the meaning of God, the purpose of God, why God does what God does, the fabric of undivided, sublime consciousness and love with no single point of individuality, no witness observing the experience, no participant in the experience subjectively. I'm gone. Not dead, not in my soul form, I'm no longer individual in any way whatsoever. 

[00:39:24]Aubrey Marcus:  Complete obliteration of lowercase S, self.

[00:39:27]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And yet, in coming out of that, in the integration, remember is not the right word, but I'm still there even though I'm here. If I wasn't there to experience the absolute, allness, everything this, how do I know it happened? That's the unexplainable. I just know, even though I wasn't there. There was no one to be there. Then, that's where it got really, really weird. I started having what could only be described as a bad trip.

[00:40:18] As I came out and became individuated again, as what seemed like the observer, witness consciousness part of me, and then it was as though I was asked to take a stroll down over in this direction over here to the right like, let's look at this. And then, some part of me, and I want to hear if you remember what I said out loud, because I'm not sure, but it was just, this feeling of not fear, it was just a knowing of, I'm not ready to look at that. And I believe that's what I said, at least inside, as I said, too soon, I'm not ready. I'm not ready.

[00:41:07]Aubrey Marcus:  That's exactly what you said.

[00:41:08]Luke Storey:  I'm not ready. No. And then, I said, no, I'm out. I'm out. Hard stop. Hard stop. Abort mission. I took my eye mask off, got up, and was just like, no, I can't go there. And then, I was in this bad trip, I mean, which is you can tell me how long in linear time, I'm so curious, but in the span of however long that was, out of coming out of that state of just absolute sublime God consciousness, where I was in the fabric of that consciousness, not in an individual expression of it, but just the allness of it, as I started to gain a little bit more of me coming back, and I was asked to look at that thing, and I said, no, what happened was I had a dream inside the dream, where I had announced to the-

[00:41:59] I was like the most famous person in the world, basically like the most exaggerated self-perception, super important person. And I was live streaming that whole thing in that space where we were. And I was telling everyone how awesome it is to do these medicines [making sounds] . And then, I took it and the whole world was watching. And then, I was in a bad trip. And I was like, I fucked up. Why did I take this? And then, I watched my whole public persona and career just completely implode.

[00:42:29] I was the laughingstock of the whole world. So, it was like this egocentric nightmare of what the ego's worst nightmare would be, probably worse than dying in a physical sense of still being alive and just being completely ostracized by every living being on the planet. And then, thinking about my fiancee, Alyson, and her always kind of—she's the voice of reason with this stuff, kind of like, are you really being called? Okay, babe, we talked about this stuff, because I'm pretty hardcore and dumb sometimes. 

[00:43:02] And I saw her, and she was like, scratching, oh, God, here we go. And I was like, I'm so sorry, babe, you were right. And then, Vylana was there singing when I opened my eyes, and when I was still in the dream within the dream, she was looking at me with this like pity. She was like, oh, sweetie, you just ruined your fucking life, I'm so sorry. And she was kind of dancing, or not dancing, but kind of just swaying and singing. And she was like, oh, poor baby, you just totally fucked yourself.

[00:43:36] And then, I think maybe, I don't know, the words she was saying or singing, something shifted. And then, I looked in her eye and the universe was there. And God, it was just in her eye, and it just stayed with her, man. And I was enraptured by God, and laid back, and then had other things happen that were just amazing, and beautiful, and you know that. But I remember being in that dream within the dream kind of and that was also this part of me that was like embarrassed because I wasn't more gangster in the experience. 

[00:44:22] Because I mean, I didn't take medicine since I was 22 years sober. Like I can look at some shit. I mean, there's really nothing that I'm consciously aware of that I won't go headfirst into and face. Sexual abuse as a kid, abandonment, whatever, man. I'm like, okay, God, you're going to give me the courage to look at this, and really face it, and feel it, okay. I trust you. I trust God, I think. And I was like, oh, my God, I just failed my journey. I said no. I said no to God.

[00:44:56] He wanted to take me somewhere that felt important. And what is so interesting in the integration, and I'm sorry for hogging up the show here, you're the guest and all, but I don't know. This is what's happening. And we'll have plenty of time, hopefully, for your take on this and your own experiences. But it was so deep, man, it's so fucking deep. I can't believe I'm talking about it on a podcast. It's almost like I'm having a bad trip right now. I'm like, this is actually going to go out into the world.

[00:45:25]Aubrey Marcus:  I can't sing it, look in your eyes like Vylana, but it's fucking going great.

[00:45:28]Luke Storey:  So, what was really interesting to me was coming out of the experience, of course, it ended, all is well, I was like, hahaha, I was having a dream within the dream. I'm fine. I'm safe. Everything's cool. And it was beautiful, but I was nagged by that, what was it that I said no to? What the fuck was that? I don't say no to anything when it comes to surrender. And without intellectualizing it, I just kept going back into the field during meditation and creating a space to allow whatever that was that I was not ready to face come into my awareness.

[00:46:12] Not in a forceful way, but I'm here for it. If anyone in the room wants to show me now, I'm definitely willing to look at it because it took me out of the experience. It kind of created a real pattern-interrupt that was not fun, like having your whole ego death in the middle of the most beautiful ego death. And I don't remember what it was, but I've really searched inside to see what it could have been and everything seems so easy and superficial for me that comes to mind, the only thing that I can intuit that it might have been was that I was given the opportunity to see and experience, having never been, and never going to be, complete nonexistence. 

[00:47:04] There is no soul, there's no spirit of Luke, there's no incarnations of Luke, there's no karma of Luke, there's no me. There never was. You do not exist on any level. The ultimate, ultimate, what I guess you could minimize and reduce to death, right? I'm like, what else would I not be able to face? That's got to be it. And if in fact that is it, the cosmic irony in the hilarity of that is that's what just had happened when I took the goddamn hit. It had already happened and I lived to tell the tale.

[00:47:39] So, it was as if I went into the space of oneness, and unity, and nonexistence, have no existence ever, never will be, never was, as an individual point of consciousness, came out of that, and the ego was like, oh, hell, no, we're not going to consider nonexistence, and then fought and took me into this really weird, writhing, trying to escape from a really powerful psychedelic experience moment to come out of it, going, wow, isn't that funny that it kind of was late to the party, coming in after the shit had already happened, I already had surrendered to God and into consciousness.

[00:48:21] And then, when it came back to observe it, it being that beautiful part of me that is the ego, that survival self-identifying entity, it came back, and said, oh, hell no, pull the plug, Luke. What are you doing? You're surrendering. We do not surrender. We win. We live. Oh, man. And so, in the days that have ensued since then, the medicine is 24/7. I'm in it all the time, but very functional. My memory is on point, I'm incredibly organized, cognizant, awake, aware, incredibly happy.

[00:49:06] But the moment I close my eyes, everythingness is there. When I sit and meditate, I feel like I could sit there forever. Hour, 90 minutes, two hours go by, and it's just impractical to keep sitting there, and I go, well, what am I even doing? Just the stillness, the emptiness, the quiet of my mind. I mean, every once in a while, my mind goes quiet without thoughts for a millisecond or two. Game I like to play is, what's the next thought going to be? And sometimes, there's a little gap that's a perceivable gap, where it's emptiness.

[00:49:46] Man, I'm having long, long gaps, where, again, it's not a me, they're even experiencing it. It's not like meditation, oh, I'm witnessing my thoughts. I'm watching the clouds go by. I'm watching the grass in the wheat field. No, there's not even an experiencer there for some periods of time, and I come back, go, was I here? No, I wasn't here. That witness wasn't here. And that's also not the point to being in a body, because we are here and there's things to do here. 

[00:50:19] But, man, to have that as a subtext, as a foundation of this waking state, of this beingness, to have that set like it appears to be set, what else do you need? Case closed. Case closed. And I could read books about non-duality. Being in non-duality shows you the purpose of duality. So, I come back, and it's like, look at the politics on Twitter and whatever shit, like going into full duality, it's like, oh, yeah, this is fun. 

[00:51:00] God created this to experience itself because I know that you have no experience of a self when it's allness and everythingness. I've experienced my own being of God as no experiencer. So, goddammit, if I was God, I would most certainly produce substrates of reality of good, bad, evil, dark, light, blah, blah, blah, in order to have an experience of myself. Because when it's allness, there's nothing to experience and there's no one to experience it. 

[00:51:32]Aubrey Marcus:  What you're describing, it really reminds me of a Toltec philosophy, which talks about controlled folly. And when you have that blistering awareness of what non-duality is and what oneness is in this overwhelming feeling of divinity, which is within us always, then when you look at duality, you have the awareness to say, ah, yes, this is folly, but I'm in control of this folly in the way that I perceive it. My own awareness is my control. It's not that I'm trying to control reality, but my control is the awareness that this is play, that this is for funsies.

[00:52:09] So, let's enjoy this and let's help everybody else enjoy it, too, because I know Home, capital H, Home, I know it, and fuck, that feels good too. And so, that and just say feel good is the biggest minimization and euphemism of what that feeling is. It's the most overwhelming sensation you could possibly ever imagine. But to now be able to look out at life and have that remembrance, that gnosis, as the Greeks would say that knowing, not just reading about what an avocado is, but tasting it full-on, and knowing like, oh, my God, this is something that is indescribable unless you actually put it in your mouth, and dissolve it, and metabolize it, and taste it, and now to have that, then it gives us the space to say, okay, let's reorient from a different perspective and look at life in a different way.

[00:53:04] And I don't know how else you actually can have proper perspective without that gnosis, which goes to your very first point of, man, we certainly cannot recommend this to everybody. However, if you really want to know the perspective of God, you have to feel what God feels like and be what God is, to actually even be able to conceptualize that perspective in a way that even makes sense. And I don't recommend this to everybody, it's not sensible to do that, not everybody is ready, and as you said, the calling and everything needs to be there, but at the same time, it's almost like, if you don't experience this, it's really impossible to really know what that thing is.

[00:53:55] So then, which then leads you to the same exact feeling that you had, which is like, yes, and, God, like I really want everybody to experience this. Yes, it does. It changes everything forever because the ultimate point of perspective has been established and you understand. And doesn't mean that you won't forget a million times. We talked about this before the podcast, forget all the time, but you can also remember at any point. 

[00:54:19] At any point when things get gnarly, at any point when you're too lost in your own polarity, too lost in your own struggle, in your own shadow, you can just pause, and remember, and go back to that perspective, and just realize, it's all okay. Everything is okay. No matter how bad this feels right now, everything is okay because I remember home and I'm held by that home. It's a part of me, and I'm a part of it, and it's inexorable. And so, that is the great gift of this medicine.

[00:54:53]Luke Storey:  How many times have you done toad at this point, you think?

[00:54:57]Aubrey Marcus:  So, that's an interesting way to look at it, because like you, I had done toad prior to meeting with a group, which was led by an indigenous man who is trained as a medicine man by the Seri tribe. And that's a tribe down in Mexico that cultivates the toad medicine from the Sonoran Desert down there. And before I worked with him and his top apprentice shaman, who's actually a doctor from New York, and it's a whole team. 

[00:55:27]Luke Storey:  Yeah. they were amazing.

[00:55:28]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah, incredible. Absolutely incredible. So, my experiences before were similar, but very different. And similar in that I was able to reach that space, but like you, it didn't have—I was aware of it, and I understood it, and that was life-changing and paradigm-shifting in and of itself. But my access to it was limited.

[00:55:48]Luke Storey:  In the afterward? 

[00:55:50]Aubrey Marcus:  Afterwards, in all my previous experiences. When I first worked with that team, then everything changed, then it became a part of me. And I really think perhaps some of it was that I was ready, but I really think that their expertise, their level of mastery in delivering this medicine in both, how it was cultivated, because they're hands on with the cultivators and the energy of that to the way that they facilitate the amount that they facilitate every different aspect being at the highest form possible.

[00:56:26] It just creates a different experience that allows you to have access and allowed me to have access to it on a different level, similar to what you're describing. So, I'd had Bufo probably four times before, I think the fifth time is with them. And that was the one that was the big shift. And after that experience, then a couple of weeks—so, that was maybe a month ago that I had my first experience. And then, they invited me to then participate in the facilitation and an initiation right for myself and Vylana to help be a co-facilitator and be an apprentice in the way that they offer it, which was an incredible gift to be able to be offered that. 

[00:57:13] And during that process, the way that they actually facilitate these experiences is the facilitators actually take a bit of the medicine with the initiate, with the person. And I didn't understand this at first, although all the ayahuasca hosts that I've been with, they drink a little bit of medicine. Don Howard, the great wachumero who served to wachuma medicine. He would take medicine with you. And so, I understood that the shamans entering the space with you as the highest articulation of shamanism, but I didn't really understand why.

[00:57:47] And then, jumping in to this process, I understood why. Because what ends up happening is you form a sympathetic quantum entanglement with the person who's having an experience. So, whatever experience they're having, you're having. If they want to purge, you purge. If they're crying, you're crying. If they're coughing, you're coughing. It blew my mind the first time I was a part of this. And it's not the same dose. You're taking just a small amount in comparison to the large amount of the person.

[00:58:18]Luke Storey:  So, you're not getting the full [making sound] .

[00:58:20]Aubrey Marcus:  Every once in a while. So, I co-facilitated for nine people, and I think that was an experience that happened maybe one time really, and then another time. But that was because that person was also in such a space that they were just fully open to that experience. And that was the only thing that was there. And so, we all went there, too, without any other stuff that was kind of interfering with that. And also, we had the space to just dissolve with them, and that was the way that we could do it.

[00:58:58] But what's interesting is it allows the shamans, and obviously, they're far more skilled at this than I will ever be, but it allows you the opportunity to, because you have this sympathetic link, you can both work on yourself or work on the person. But typically, what's the most easy to access is self. So, if you feel like you need to purge because they need to purge, your act of purging is going to help them. And I felt that from their side. 

[00:59:27] As they went through this and actually dealt with the stuff that I was going through, I could feel it helping me. Just as I was moving through this other stuff, I could feel it helping the people there. So, if someone was anxious, I could call myself because I would be anxious. If I was confused, I would find like the grounding chords to understand things because they were confused. Like there was all of these ways that by working on self, you could affect the whole collective that was there. So, it's really, really beautiful.

[00:59:56] It's the longest way ever to answer the question. So, my fifth experience with this team, since then, because we facilitated for nine people, that's nine more, plus I had my own journeys on the other side, so that was probably another 11 or so that we can. So, now, I've done it quite a few times in the teens somewhere. And I really feel like I understand that medicine space. But it wasn't until I really worked with that crew that I got that really breakthrough experience in the fact that I could take it with me wherever I go from henceforth, from there on forward. 

[01:00:39]Luke Storey:  For real. I mean, to having meditating for over 20 years in one form or another, and I mean, like I said, every day, I kind of wake up going, it's probably gone now. It's going to be normal again. I don't judge my meditation. I'm not like, oh, it's not a good meditation. I come from the Vedic meditation school. And I've done a lot of different things. But one thing I really got from Vedic was there's no bad meditation.

[01:01:07] Like sometimes, you have busy mind, great. That was a great meditation. Sometimes, you have still mind, same thing, right? But obviously, I prefer the vastness of that space, the expansive type of meditation. And every day, I'm kind of shocked that I still have the capacity to just drop in and it's like I can't wait to take a shower so I can go meditate. I mean, I'm just like, it's all I want to do. It's incredible. It's just, oh, my Lord.

[01:01:38]Aubrey Marcus:  So, I can give a perspective, particularly to your experience because I was there with you. It wasn't like I was observing you. I was there with you, which is one of the things that when we came out and we had a little walk about, I was in so much gratitude for you because so much of what you were processing was things that I needed help processing too, and I was processing them with you. So, you drop in and we feel you merge with source in just a beautiful, surrendered way, and you're in peace on the mat.

[01:02:16] And then, at that point, if you're actually doing a brain scan, your default mode network is completely offline. That thing that powers the ego, the ego that says, I am not everything, I am self, which is the ego, that part is completely offline. And so, we're all there in this deeply peaceful state. And that's not always the case. I facilitated for nine. I've watched other people go through different experiences, sometimes, right off the bat, it's resistance, resistance the whole way.

[01:02:46]Luke Storey:  Really? How could you resist that? It's so powerful, man. I mean, dude, even if you're like, alright, I'm about to take a hit of the shit, and you're like, I'm not going down, like you're gone. I just can't imagine the magnitude of that medicine not just wiping you clean.

[01:03:06]Aubrey Marcus:  And the people in resistance have no memory of it. So, like no matter what happens, whether they're standing up, and you're dancing with them, and it's like a crazy weekend at Bernie's, which was an experience we had, was like weekend at Bernie's, where someone's like moving around, and they're like moving with them, and this whole thing was happening. And then, they come to standing, and they're like, why am I standing? You're like, you just had a nice dance with the medicine. Meanwhile, it was fucking chaos for 20 minutes, and then they don't remember it. 

[01:03:36]Luke Storey:  In my first sit, someone was very, very physical like that, a smaller girl. Yeah, really getting squirrelly. And I had not had mine yet. And I was like, oh, shit, what's happening here, man? And talking and saying crazy shit like acting super weird. When you're not on medicine and you see someone that deep in an experience, it's pretty jarring. 

[01:03:58]Aubrey Marcus:  I bet, because you're not feeling what they're feeling, so you don't really understand it. But with everybody like, when you're on the medicine, you understand it. Like you feel what they're feeling. You feel where the resistance comes from. Maybe it's because the body hasn't been allowed to talk. And now that the mind's out of the way, the body's expressing, the body needs to get something out or some shadow aspect to the psyche now has the freedom, some subconscious element that can now come forward.

[01:04:25] And this is all part of the healing process. Like all the doors are blown off when the guard, the dampening factor, the ego that holds everything together, it's like, there's nothing holding anything together. So, anything that's there, that's been pressurized releases. So, the pressurization of everything you've hold. And sometimes, it happens instantly. Sometimes, that happens later. Sometimes, it doesn't happen at all. Every experience is a perfect experience.

[01:04:51] And it's only in our own mind that we think, oh, this one's better than that. This was the gangster way. This person's done the work. Like we can all get in all those traps again, but it's all not true. So, anyways, you have your five minutes of that, and then at some point, the default mode network starts to come back online and Luke was back there. And at the point where Luke was somewhat back, that's when you started to go through and you described it exactly.

[01:05:18]Luke Storey:  Those were the things I said? 

[01:05:19]Aubrey Marcus:  Abort mission. Hard stop. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. Hard stop. And in that experience, then intuitively, Vylana, and you kind of like sat up, and Vylana moved over to the front of the mat, and just started singing, and looking in your eyes, and you were just staring right in her eyes. And this beautiful thing happened between you guys for probably over 10 minutes of linear time, where she was just singing and you guys just had this like perfect eye contact. 

[01:05:53] And it took you about five minutes to really like receive it. And I could feel the softening, and I could feel that sympathetic link between you, and this just angelic voice coming through her. And then, you, starting to breathe, starting to like calm, starting to like smile a little bit, and really see it. And it's just a beautiful moment. And you lay back down, having worked through that process. So, we're about 20 minutes in a total linear time. And at that point, the part that you left out of the stories, you went into the most beautiful prayer that I can remember, I mean, in any medicine space, I've never heard a more beautiful prayer. 

[01:06:38] And it was a prayer for yourself to remember everything that you were feeling. And it covered everything from your anxieties, and your stresses about work, and about finances, and about your responsibility for the world, and how you could just trust more, and let that go, and believe in yourself, and trust that you were being held, and that you were safe, always safe, and trust yourself, and trust everybody around you. And like at some point, you're halfway through it, and I'm like, this is a prayer for all humankind, for me, for every person.

[01:07:19] Men, I think in particular, but all humans feel all of this pressure, the weight of everything we have to hold, and how you were just impeccably and with so much heart expressing this prayer of both gratitude and intention for this remembrance. And at some point, I went to reach and I was going to grab a recording for you, but I was still in the medicine tears. I was like trying to get this because I would have loved to have that prayer. But it's there, and I was there to witness it and feel it. And it was beautiful. And then, that was another key turning point in the journey, because after that, there was just absolute stillness and peace.

[01:08:04] And there was some tears and there were some things, as you were kind of releasing. And for me, that happens often, too, as I release the pain of who I once was with the truth of who I now am, and then the gap necessary to fill that gap is a mourning for the pain that I suffered that was unnecessary and everything that I've hold in that release, that kind of somatically let's go. And so then, that prayer was maybe a five-minute prayer. And then, for the next 20 minutes or so, you were just kind of integrating that, and then allowing it to move through your body, shaking some things out, moving your neck. Actually did a little body work on your shoulders and your neck.

[01:08:47]Luke Storey:  Oh, it was you? 

[01:08:48]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah.

[01:08:48]Luke Storey:  Thank you.

[01:08:49]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah, you're welcome. 

[01:08:49]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I was like, oh, somebody's mind reading here, thank you.

[01:08:52]Aubrey Marcus:  Well, the interesting thing is I could feel where your tension was because I could feel it in myself. So, it's like I knew. And there's a lot of schools of thought, and some people say like, don't interfere with the experience at all, just allow them to. I think everybody has the invitation to have their own style, and I trusted that, that this was my own way to be guided by what Spirit was telling me, and it was, if I know what's going on and if I can assist, I will, not to interfere with your journey, but just to support it.

[01:09:25] So, I could feel where that was. So, I was kind of helping you move through that a little bit, just shoulders and neck areas where there is tension, and you're kind of shaking out your legs, and just kind of letting it all move through. And then, at about 45 minutes from the time you took it, you just sit up, and you're like, whoa, I got to express to you. I don't want to share everything because I want to sit with it, but just a few reflections on the journey, and that was it. 

[01:09:58] And an hour in, we're out taking a little walk, taking a little walk outside and chatting about it. And so, everything was completely encapsulated in an hour from absolute baseline all the way to God, all the way through the resistance, all the way into this deep acceptance, this prayer for all humanity, out through your moving into it somatically, and then chatting about it, and having a laugh all over the course of one hour.

[01:10:29]Luke Storey:  So wild, dude. Shit. We only have 15 minutes to unpack the entire fabric of consciousness. That is one of the things. I mean, of course, in the medicine space, there's no time in the quantum realm. There's no linear time. Like okay, we get that. But what always fascinates me is the, for lack of a better term, oh, not work, but progress. The amount of progress that one can make in such a short span of linear time, particularly, obviously, with this medicine. It's just astonishing.

[01:11:06] It's another bit of evidence that things are not what they seem. Even in my first toad experience, which I don't know why this didn't strike me as more meaningful, but I kind of witnessed an experience and grieved a number of lifetimes in India, where I had my body been burned on the Ganges just over and over again, just seeking God over and over again, seeking God, seeking God. And I'm not living each lifetime from like I'm born, and then I die at 85, but just great expanses of what would be linear time in terms of the narrative that I'm experiencing.

[01:11:44] And that's probably happening in two minutes of that experience, or the part that I don't even want to call it bad trip, let's just call it the totally psychotic part of this particular experience that I went through with you. I mean, you said and I think one of the other facilitators like, yeah, that was probably about two minutes that you were doing that shit, or five minutes, whatever it was. I'm like, dude, when I was in that experience, it was going on, and on, and on. 

[01:12:09] And like everyone is laughing at me on social media and I was on the cover of magazines as the biggest joke. Mr. Promoter of psychedelics has the worst trip ever and publicly nukes his whole life. All that shit that happened, it went on for quite a while. Even after I opened my eyes, as I said, I was looking in her eyes, and I was like, oh, my God, she's laughing at like what I just did to myself and all that. But those sublime moments, like the moment where I submitted that prayer of surrender, that also goes on forever.

[01:12:48] It's just like, oh, yeah. I remember when there's an experience or like there is with ayahuasca or something, there's the experiencer, but there is also that deep merging too. So, you're not gone, you're there, but there's so much less of the intellect, the ego, and the personality present. Sometimes, it seems like it's almost totally gone and just the pure experiencer of the witness, of the soul, higher consciousness that is a single expression of you is still there.

[01:13:22] And I think that was kind of what I went into in that prayer. It was like, yeah, I'm Luke. I know I'm not, but I am right now. I am right now and I'm giving you fucking Luke, God. I'm here. I'll give you everything. Even though you already have everything, even though there's nothing of me really to give, because we are only one thing, I'm going to play along and give you this thing that I think I am right now and forever.

[01:13:52] But, man, I knew, Aubrey, when I was saying that prayer, I was also like, use your words wisely right now, Luke, because I am with the Almighty in a really profound way. And if you don't mean this shit, don't say it because you're accountable now to yourself, in your own evolution, to the punishing God of falsehood. But just like, am I really saying this? Okay. I can feel my body kind of undulating now. It's like, oh, I remember, that was like, okay, nervous system, you ready for this shit? Here we go. Okay. Take me. God, how beautiful. What a beautiful experience to share with you, man.

[01:14:38]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah, man. Yeah, I feel so honored and grateful to be able to go through that experience with you. It was so relevant. It was so relevant for me in particular, and I think for everybody, but me even more so than the other, there's five of us other facilitators there. And for me in particular, because I'm a podcaster, and because we're similar in many of the ways, and we have a public-facing side, and so many of the things that you were surrendering in that prayer, so many of the things that you were going through were fears that I have at some level or another, or anxieties that I have at some level.

[01:15:19] So, the work that you did that day was work that I got to go through as well and got to experience. And in that case, while there were certain points where I was doing some work for you, at that point, you were doing work for me. And so, the reciprocity was contained in the thing itself. And that's the beautiful part of it, is when you recognize that the oneness of all things, you realize that there is nobody who's going through something that doesn't affect you. Like anybody's growth is your growth.

[01:15:52] Your growth is anybody's growth. Like it's all into the collective. And in this case, it just becomes very visceral because you can feel it directly one for one, but also, to understand that there's a level of truth in which everybody going through this, putting that out into the collective, into the giant morphic resonance field as Rupert Sheldrake would call it, like putting that out there is doing the work for humanity, is doing the work for God, which is fucking awesome.

[01:16:23]Luke Storey:  Yeah, exactly, man. It's my version of marching in the streets. It's like lifting the tide so that, perhaps, all boats might float a little higher, which there's a cop-out element to that too. Like I'm just going to work on myself, and get more spiritual, and raise my consciousness, and that's how I serve. It sounds like it could be a way out of having to really contribute. But I truly believe that that is my contribution, is just in continuing to evolve, and I don't even want to say continuing to heal, because after something like this, it's like, I am healed. Sometimes, you just forget that.

[01:17:04]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah, it's remembering the healing. Well, also too, I mean, look what we're doing now. I mean, the tens of thousands of people at minimum who are going to see this. So, it's not just that you're in a monastery somewhere and doing your work purely with the collective, you're doing the work and a lot of the pressure you felt was because you've opened the window to the most intimate living room of your own psyche. And you have everybody, a throng of people looking in like, what's going on over here with Luke? And you've made that deep commitment to share all that.

[01:17:34]Luke Storey:  Dude, I just had this thing like, Luke, what are you doing? The same thing like in the ceremony, it's that same thing. It's like, but what would people think? Who cares? Oh, my God. In closing, alright, I got you for five, six minutes. I'm guessing some people are going to listen to this conversation, and maybe a couple of them are thinking, what the hell are these guys talking about? This makes no sense. I think most people that dial into my show are about this life, right? Like for real. The people that I've met at my workshops and things, like they're all in. They're going for the long game. 

[01:18:11] And it's so beautiful to keep that kind of holy company. But I do get feedback from people that are like, wow, God, I live in Kansas, and like, I don't know anyone into this stuff. Like they're not in our circles. And they want to explore these kind of things. And I'm always kind of pressed for how to point someone in the right direction, especially due to the legality of these things, too. Oftentimes, you have to go out of the country because of the legal implications and risks. And even if you're doing it in country and it's illegal, no one's going to tell you who they did it with and where it was. And it's just murky. But I also don't want to exclude people from the experience. 

[01:18:48] So, with this particular medicine, what do you think might be a starting point if someone wants to explore the idea or the sense that they might be called to start to study up, to learn, and then further, at some point, perhaps have this type of experience if it's appropriate for them and they have determined within their sovereignty that it is so. And what that looks like to me is getting a text from you recently, hey, heads up, this thing is going on. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Clear yes. Slept on it. Talked to my wise partner about it. Meditated on it. Prayed on it. Check back in. Ding, ding, ding. Go, go, go. You're doing this. That's it. 

[01:19:40]Aubrey Marcus:  So, I think we have to let go of this linear pattern of how we get things done, as in the typical masculine archetype. And of course, men and women can tap into this masculine archetype, which, it's all about doing. It's about this domino leads to this domino, leads to this domino, and, well, cause and effect is a real thing. There's something more metaphysical and more in the chaos of the quantum feminine, the void, the pregnant void of all possibilities that's happening here.

[01:20:10] And so, I don't have a place where people can go, and research, but with this knowledge and if you start to open up to that intention, you'll start naturally gravitating to more people who've experienced this, who've embodied this understanding, who've worked with the medicine, and you'll just start listening, start intuitively, starting to associate with some different types of people. Some different friends will come into your life, people that you might not have noticed that in or who might have casually mentioned it and you might have just not paid attention.

[01:20:44] Once you set that intention, you'll start to notice it. You'll start to pay attention. You'll start to gravitate towards it. And then, inevitably, that person or that person who introduces you to this person will then, at some point, say, hey, this thing is happening. And then, that will be your opportunity to fill in just like you did, and say, is this a yes or is this a no? I look forward to the time when we can really have this all out completely in the open. And while it's legal in Mexico and well-decriminalized in Mexico in some places, I don't have a retreat center that I can recommend or anything like that, like I can with ayahuasca or something.

[01:21:23] So, the way now is to just open yourself up energetically to this, and start to find yourself in these conversations, and find yourself amongst the groups that are starting to do this work, and trust. Trust that just as much as you're seeking that, it's seeking you. Like if you're seeking the toad, the toad is seeking you. And you got to realize that and just allow the mystery of how that thing is going to happen to happen. And I would bet you, it's going to blow your mind at how it actually works out because it's just going to be this crazy synchronicity.

[01:21:58]Luke Storey:  I think in closing, perhaps the most profound thing about all of this is that God decided by design to put this particular molecule in the poison excretion of one goddamn toad on planet Earth. I mean, I know there are forms of DMT and other things, but as far as I understand, this particular molecule is only present in this toad, right? Otherwise, it's a synthetic. 

[01:22:25]Aubrey Marcus:  In this pure concentration, yes. There are some plants that have a little bit of it. There's a snuff called vilca that has some, but it's mixed with other things. So, you don't get the same experience. You get a different version, a different flavor with a little bit of toppings of this experience.

[01:22:40]Luke Storey:  Right. This is like, God, please consciousness, send me a great metaphor here. If one was to compare with other psychedelic drugs, plant medicines, fungi, et cetera, in my subjective experience, and I think I've done just about all of them except iboga, and wachuma, actually, those two, I've never done out of all of them, DMT, this form of DMT is like, all those others are beautiful feathers, and this is a sledgehammer. It's just indescribably more powerful in every way than any of those experiences, as beautiful, and healing, and profound as they can be.

[01:23:24] It's almost, I don't know, there's a certain personality to other medicines, like I love mushrooms. They're my little buddies. I love them. And they really agree with me on on every level. And there's a certain sweetness, and a certain medicine, and revelation, of course, present in that communication tool with consciousness. That's how I kind of look at the medicines. It's like they're little cellphones and they each have their own kind of way of connecting on a certain frequency. And it subjectively feels different and looks different.

[01:23:52] But this is on another level, almost to the point, I'm like, why would I ever have to do anything ever again? Even this, almost, there's a part of me that's like, I got to get an answer, what did I say no to? I think that will plague me until God shows me for sure, and I'm like, yeah, that's what I said no to. Because right now, I'm guessing a little. I think I know. But I think this experience is just so powerful that it's almost like you never need to do anything ever again, although I probably will. I'm just such a curious soul. I want to know truth in all its forms and at the highest capacity possible. 

[01:24:32]Aubrey Marcus:  All these medicines are bridges, they're bridges to an alternate reality, alternate realities of consciousness. And while every medicine is a bridge, and sometimes, the bridge is there. Iboga, the bridge is there for 24 hours. It's a long duration of that bridge, and you're traveling back and forth on that bridge, getting all the wisdom from Dr. Iboga, as they call it. Ayahuasca, four to eight hours. Really, sometimes, it lasts longer for people. Mushrooms, usually, about five hours at the higher end. 

[01:25:01] LSD is definitely longer than that, about eight. So, wachuma is more like 10. Everything has a duration and a different access point to different typical realities, doesn't mean that as you're crossing over other realities, different ones can pop in and different things can come through. This is the only one that doesn't feel like a bridge. It feels like the other side of the ultimate Bridge, the capital B, Bridge that bridges between you and God, it collapses. 

[01:25:30] Like that space time continuum, where space time bend and one point becomes the other point, like a superposition, it's just [making sound] and the rest of the bridge is missing. So, now, you have the fixed point of consciousness, that point of oneness, all the way back to where there is no differentiation. Imagine it like that point of the Big Bang, where everything is just blistering white potential before it explodes into the universe. Like you're at that one point, that one frozen moment right before it all differentiates.

[01:26:05] And so, this is that essential way to get back to that. But all of the other medicines, then they provide you the way to fill in. They can help you fill in all of the dimensions in between you and this one point. And so, that's kind of how I look at it, is that while you could, ultimately, by knowing this fixed point, maybe not even need to fill in the rest or just choose not to, and you would be totally fine knowing this point and knowing where you are.

[01:26:38] I think that the other medicines really can help fill in with that colored pencils of all of the other elements of psyche, and the subconscious, and your emotional state, and other interactions with other beings that are differentiated at higher levels, in different aggregations of awareness that have come through these different archetypal beings that you might encounter, realms of the angels or realms of darker forces, which are still teachers in a way that are holding polarity. So, yeah. Well, this gives you that fixed point. Everything else is the fill in the blanks.

[01:27:15]Luke Storey:  Wow. Beautifully said. That's a really, really profound articulation, and a great way, unfortunately, to end our episode here.

[01:27:24]Aubrey Marcus:  Well, we've done three, so what's four. I can come back

[01:27:25]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I know. It's funny though in observing it, I have to say this real quick, you being invited and called to facilitate this medicine, I might be a little overzealous because I'm still fresh in the experience, but I got to say, I have had the thought many times, kind of like, what are you doing with your life? Like you need to go find out how to serve this medicine or at least just share in the experience. Just to be in the room while this is happening to and for someone, I mean, that, in and of itself, having experienced it, wow, what a karmic freaking lottery. 

[01:28:02] But to experience the other experience, seeing what a life. I have had that thought many times. Like I don't know, I hope that's not my calling because [making sound] that sounds like a rough road in many ways, so many pitfalls to play with in that. I mean, talk about karmic responsibility, and, whoo, I don't know if I could do it, but man, God, to just be able to participate in, and observe, and hold space for such a profoundly beautiful experience.

[01:28:35]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. And I would encourage you to pursue that, but not with this idea that it's binary, not with this idea that if you do bring yourself to the level where you can, doesn't mean you will. And that's kind of the place where I'm at. Like they blessed me with this kind of like, alright, you're young in this, but we trust you, we trust you to carry this if you feel called. And I don't necessarily feel called. 

[01:29:03] It's like, they're like, after going through this experience, we've watched you, we've worked with you, we've coached you. You've been through this with nine people under our guidance. And the last time they really let me take the helm and Vylana as well, and they're like, alright, you guys, like if you're called to this, you have our blessing. But still, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure about that. But I'm glad to know that like if I was really called to, I feel capable of doing that.

[01:29:37] And that's a beautiful thing to be in, because as the doctor who is there, the doctor who turned shaman, who actually did devote his whole life, burned his prescription pad and devoted himself to this full time, and just absolutely the right choice, having worked with him, but there are these situations where someone will call them on their way to committing suicide, and he'll be like, alright, I hear you. This life is gnarly and I get it. How about you just give this one experience a chance?

[01:30:09] And at the end of that, if you still feel the same way, I bless you, go for it. And at that point, people who have nothing to lose are like, yeah, alright, fuck it. Like I'll give this one experience a shot, because I hear the trust in his voice and he's had many, many of those experiences where he's led someone through that, and they're like, well, I don't even know what I was thinking. That person who was wanting to kill himself, that person's gone. 

[01:30:37] So, just to know that that's now possible because, of course, I would still want to like lead them back to the source, like go to Mexico or go wherever to find the people, but if I had to, it's like, no, I can't wait that long. I don't want to do it. Like I could show up, and I could do my best to do God's work in that way and be proficient enough. So, that's a good feeling for me. And I think that's, to me, where I feel with it. It's just like, alright, if necessary, I can offer that.

[01:31:16]Luke Storey:  That makes sense. And I think when the ideas presented itself, it's coming in absolutes. Like I would just do that and move off somewhere, to Mexico or whatever, and like, that's all I do. Like I just blow the rest of my life's work off. That's just how I think, in the absolutes. I'm silly like that. I'm going to let you go out of respect, unfortunately, for your time. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your work that our listeners might be able to go check out? 

[01:31:47]Aubrey Marcus:  Don Miguel Ruiz, and actually, even Carlos Castaneda, who is also another Toltec initiate. But Castaneda has some real kind of personal issues with the way that he lived his life, if you actually look at his history, but I got a lot from his teachings. But the Toltec school has been one that's really big. And I think for people interested in diving in, it's another complete system. Anthony de Mello is another one. His book, Awareness, is one of the most ruthless and blistering explorations of consciousness and the pathway to live life.

[01:32:23] And the other one, I think, is experience as a teacher, and just to know that whatever that is, and whether that's ecstatic, dance practice, meditation practice, plant medicine practice, breathwork practice, cold practice, like find the ways to, that's the ultimate teacher. But if I was going to give two other ones, I would say check into what the Toltecs were into because not a lot of people have gone to the depth to really understand that it is a complete system. And then, Anthony de Mello is another one.

[01:33:04]Luke Storey:  Cool. Thank you, man. Yeah, that book and his name have popped up a lot. I got to look into that. What about websites, Fit For Service? Aubreymarcus.com, Aubrey Marcus on Instagram. Give people a little taste of Fit For Service because I'm not even totally clear about what you do. I just see some stuff on Instagram. I'm like, whoa, dude, homeboy put together a very cool program, community.

[01:33:28]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. Honestly, I put a ton of pressure on myself to always do more and always be contributing in the maximum way possible. And I had the idea come to me when I was sitting in a wachuma journey with my spiritual mentor, Don Howard, who led through that great plant medicine tradition. I went through it with 20 people, five of which I knew, 15 of which I didn't, and we formed this incredible bond together. And I recognized that the ability to bond a group together, a community together through rites of passage was an inexplainable force. And so, I had the idea like how to bring this forward.

[01:34:11] Now, of course, plant medicines are not a part of what Fit For Service offers, although many of the members do have their own journeys. But recognizing, if we brought a community together that was bonded by vulnerability, truth, authenticity, and led them through the great transformational rites of passage, interactions with nature, the cold, the heat, breathwork practice, ecstatic dance practice, meditation practice, sound healing practice, put that all together, where we are all in containers designed to bring us to our most vulnerable state and see self in other that it would be something that was exponentially greater than the sum of its parts.

[01:34:50] And it's been two years now we've been running it and it's far exceeded my idea of what was possible. So, it's a group of 150 people at a time. We respect Dunbar's number of the maximum amount that could be held in a tribe. There's an application process, and then we go around the world just experiencing these great transformational medicines. There's a program that we put together. There's a variety of coaches. Vylana is one of them. And then, we bring in other master coaches and conscious musicians.

[01:35:19] And it's been really incredible. But to go back to what I was saying about the pressure for me to always want to contribute more and do more, at the end of our last summit in Sedona, which is a five-day experience out in Sedona, we were doing all the different great practices that I mentioned, I was sitting there, and just seeing the growth, and feeling the growth that has come through everybody in this and watching it happen in real time, as I'm communicating with everybody, and talking to them, and feeling them, and hearing their stories, I recognize that if I did nothing else, this thing alone was enough.

[01:35:55] And there's never been anything else that I've done where I've really felt that. So, not founding on it, not writing my book, not in my podcast, all of this, I'm grateful for, my ability to contribute, but this thing, of all the things, was the thing. It was like, if you did nothing else but this the rest of your life, like you've served the medicine in a beautiful, in a way that was absolutely enough. And that was a great release for me. I was like, oh, my God, thank you.

[01:36:23]Luke Storey:  That's amazing, dude, and I totally relate to that because I've not found that thing yet. I don't know what my thing is exactly. There's all kinds of ideas and whatnot, but I'm really grateful for you to be able to see that through to fruition, and to get that like, aha, here we go, this is a worthy mission that's fulfilling and does all the things. It's really cool. 

[01:36:43]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. So, the challenge though is it's only 150 people at a time. So, starting at the start of the year, we developed an online platform for it, which is iOS, Android app, and it's called Fit for Service Academy. So, if you want to get a taste of what that community's like, we are uploading like exclusive sound healings, and meditations, and dances, and different things that people can experience together. It doesn't have the in-person component, but it will have a community of these people who are all interested in that and the ability to meet these people who very well will become your lifelong allies.  

[01:37:18] I think in a survey we did, 100% of people said that they met people who would become who they believe to be friends and allies for the rest of their life.  So, like the ability to connect with these different individuals that have had similar experiences and gone through these similar processes, have that same drive to be the most that they can be as a human and as a spiritual being as well. So, yeah. I would encourage people to check that out. 

[01:37:46] It's in the App Store, Fit for Service Academy. Obviously, my podcasts, Aubrey Marcus podcasts, @AubreyMarcus pretty much everywhere else. And I got some poetry that I'm coming out with, which is my way of expressing my own emotions around a lot of the things that have been happening in 2020 that we share some similar strong emotions about. So, keep a lookout for that. I'll be releasing all that soon. So, I can't wait to share that with you too. 

[01:38:11]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Likewise.

[01:38:13]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. It's kind of like, when emotions are present, they want an outlet, and I think the outlet of just saying it is one thing, but when I can transmute it into art, which is my poetry, and then it just allow it to be an emotion and not worry about making the impeccable argument in addressing every potential rebuttal from every different angle, which seems exhausting and Sisyphean in its quest to actually reach a level of impact. I'm just like, you know what, I can just express this in my poetry, let it be art, and just say, #art. I'm like, you guys take it with what you want. I'm not going to defend my art. It's my art. It's the feeling that I felt. And so, it feels really good to me to be able to finally get to a place where that's coming through me as well.

[01:39:03]Luke Storey:  Right on. That's great. That's a good idea. I like that, #art. I mean, we have our censorship problems, but you can almost say anything, call it art, performance art. Yeah. That's cool, man. Good for you. Well, thanks, dude, again for the invite last week and for coming on the show again. It's really great to catch up with you. And also, just being out here in Austin, I feel like I'm in your hood, I'm in your kind of turf here, and meeting so many great people that we know mutually, it just feels really good to be here, and be able to really ground in, and sit with you in this way. So, thank you.

[01:39:37]Aubrey Marcus:  We just need the housing gods to bless you with a solution here, and then this is a permanent thing.

[01:39:42]Luke Storey:  I know, dude. We looked at a place today. It was pretty cool, but we had to logically just say, it's too small to put our podcast studio in. It just didn't have the buildability, but it was a start. And it was a stretch, too. It was like, we can't afford this. No, don't say that. We can. It's one of those like kind of feel like impostors with the realtor walking in like, yeah, no, we totally got a budget for this. But we're thinking big and stretching the capacity of possibilities. 

[01:40:09] And actually, after last week, I mean, it's like, talk about like limiting beliefs and all this kind of shit, it's like, wow, those all just got [making sound] . I mean, not that they can't come back, but in the realm of, I mean, beyond potentiality, in the realm of everything already exists, everywhere, all the time, and all the time, the idea of getting a house, it's like, well, that should be super dumb easy, like manifestation wise. 

[01:40:37] So, I've really been staying in that, and just allowing that to kind of undulate, and especially in meditation, not even attaching to like, I'm going to manifest a house, but just like, whoa, what if I just let God just do God's thing here and just observe how ridiculously better that's going to be than anything I could come up with in my rigid, preconceived plan for what best serves me.

[01:41:01]Aubrey Marcus:  Yeah. Intention and surrender, that ever present dance.

[01:41:05]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Alright, man. Well, thank you. I'm going to let you get out of here. 

[01:41:07]Aubrey Marcus:  Of course, brother. 

[01:41:07]Luke Storey:  I appreciate you coming by.

[01:41:08]Aubrey Marcus:  Thanks, everybody. Appreciate you all.

[01:41:22]

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