Danielle LaPorte:  [00:00:12] There isn't this deity in the sky that's keeping score. It's the universal principle of balance. Everything has to come into balance. Everything has to come home. And home is harmony, and home is love, and home is inclusion and compassion. Home is the heart. And for that to happen, your soul is going to bring you into balance. And that's called karma. So when you are in attack mode, and you've withheld a lot of love, that's going to have to get rectified in your life. You're going to have to clean up that mess. This is the beauty of having an intentional spiritual practice. I'm Danielle LaPorte, and you're listening to the Life Stylist podcast.

Luke Storey:  [00:01:07] While we are indeed on a roll with the inner work on this podcast, last week, we got the trauma and addiction download with Gabor Mate. And this week, we bring you another heavy hitter in the spiritual and emotional realm. I'm thrilled to bring Danielle LaPorte back to the show for Episode 433. The chat you're about to hear is a guide of sorts on how to be loving no matter what, a tall order indeed, but Danielle just wrote an entire book about it. So we're in no doubt in good hands.

Show notes, links, and transcripts can be found at lukestorey.com/danielle, where you'll also find a link to her last appearance on this show in 2018, which was Episode 161. Here's a little info about our guest for those of you who are not yet familiar. Danielle speaks and teaches about the intelligence of the heart. Her most recent book, How to Be Loving: When Your Heart is Breaking Open and the World is Waking Up, which we, of course, discuss here at length is also an audiobook and ebook and a companion deck and a journal.

She's also the author of the Firestarter Sessions, the Desire Map, White Hot Truth and the producer of dozens of meditation kits and online programs for spiritual support. And she's also the creator of the Heart Centered Membership and Heart Centered Leadership programs with over 400 leaders in 30 countries hosting conversation circles, retreats, and workshops, and all kinds of communities and businesses.

And here's a quick cheat sheet on just a couple of the topics covered, although we really meandered in and out of dozens of topics in the realm of spirituality. This one was definitely more in the spirit of a dialogue than a classical Q&A interview. But we did discuss how Danielle handle being canceled and her secret to loving angry Internet trolls, the elusive difference between living as love and spiritual bypass, what you don't know about the ego and why we need to keep it on board, how to get past the deafening noise of this world to find your true identity, and finally, her view on plant medicines and why she doesn't choose this path for herself and many more insights into the path of self-realization.

And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that some of you will likely be interested in exploring her incredible courses and membership programs. So we've posted links to those in the show notes for this episode, which you can find again at lukestorey.com/danielle. And to show your support for not only

Danielle's work but your own life, you can preorder her new book in the show notes as well. It drops in two weeks on October 11, 2022. Okay, that's it. Let's get to the business of learning how to love with Danielle LaPorte on the Life Stylist podcast.

All right, here we go, Danielle LaPorte. We are back in Black. We are on track. Let's do this.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:03:55] I'm so excited to be here. This is one of my first official conversations about all things new. It's been a while since we hung out. So this feels extra. I'm grateful. Thank you.

Luke Storey:  [00:04:08] I'm excited too. I just remember when we met, this would have been in 2018, and it was at the Longevity Now conference in Orange County, and I was aware of you as being a spiritual teacher . I hadn't delved deeply into your work at that time. But you were one of the keynote speakers and I was just like, I got to grab all the speakers I can get. Your talk was great. You seemed really tapped in. 

And I just remember and I haven't gone back and listened to that since we did it because I don't listen to my podcast anymore. But I used to to just get better at it. Probably I should still for some people listening. But I just remember sitting there and dropping in and we just went into this really beautiful field. I remember it as being a very intimate very real, very open-hearted exchange and it really had an impact on me.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:05:01] Mm-hmm, I remember our conversation.

Luke Storey:  [00:05:03] People often ask me, oh, what's your favorite guest or this and that, and it's usually not even-- when it's in person, at least, it's not so much about the content of what was shared, but more about the context of the experience of that person, just for me personally, just how it felt in the room. And I just remember you going, God, man, she is so dope.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:05:26] I remember some questions. I remember you asking me about dating.

Luke Storey:  [00:05:31] Yeah, I really needed help in that department back then, that's why.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:05:36] And now look at us. We're both in love. We both moved. And I remember listening to your podcasts in the early days when I think you're in your LA apartment. And you were still styling, and making the leap over to podcasting. And now look at you. Now I'm keying in discount codes for Luke to get stuff.

Luke Storey:  [00:06:00] Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, it's quite a journey. That transition was-- I wouldn't say it was scary. It was a step into the unknown in terms of just actually making a living. It wasn't scary as in, oh, is this where my heart is calling me to venture, that was very clear, but it was unknown in terms of how do you turn this thing into a way that you pay the bills. But that part was fly by night. For the first couple of years, it was rough, but I owned another business at the time that was able to fund my life and get over that hump.

But yeah, that's wild, you bring that up. I remember sitting in my little two-bedroom apartment in LA, and unknowingly, I was getting fried by the cell towers that were up above my apartment. I was doing all these shows about optimizing your health and all the things. And meanwhile, I was really sick a lot of the time during that first year or so that I had the podcast and seeking all these solutions, which ultimately ended up being a gift because I did find some really incredible obscure modalities for physical health and healing and whatnot, that I probably wouldn't have found if I wasn't feeling so shitty at that time. 

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:07:15] And isn't that the way, right? With so many people in this space, this is too much information, but I was just having a colonic yesterday.

Luke Storey:  [00:07:23] Good for you, girl.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:07:26] And every good healer or really knowledgeable practitioner in the space has got some healing story like, yeah, this autoimmune disorder for a while. And then I figured this out myself. And now it's my business. And like, that's the way it should be. We'd start going deep already. But I think that's part of what happens when someone goes through a dark night. They make this commitment. I feel like and I observed, there's this twofold commitment. It's like, I personally I'm never going back there again, whatever it was, the mental instability, the physical challenges. And the double commitment is I will do whatever it takes to help flatten people's learning curve, and get them through their passage, whether it's a colonic, or it's your energy healer, or you administer whatever it is.

Luke Storey:  [00:08:23] Well, that was something that I tapped into pretty early on in my journey of sobriety was just coming into it and just abject suffering and pretty quickly cluing into the principle of service. And although it was unattainable in the very beginning, it wasn't long before-- even though I had very little to offer and was still very compromised in all the ways, maybe if I had 21 days, 56 days sober, I was an enlightened master to someone who was on day one.

I found that it was so fulfilling to be able to serve. And also just that I was compelled to do so because I felt it was almost as if I had a contract with God or something, even though it wasn't a quid pro quo prayer that I uttered that got me sober, it was just like a sense of reverence in that there was-- I don't know if a debt to pay might be a little strong language, but it's like I owe this to myself to be able to at least try and alleviate suffering once you make it out.

It's like someone comes and rescues you from behind enemy lines. It takes a certain type of self-initiative like, peace, good luck to the rest of the guys. I'm out. It's like there's something in you compels, like, oh, there are still three guys back there in the POW camp and you will do anything to go back and try and drag them out if they're willing to walk.

But anyway, I want to get into current events and stuff and not all ramble on too much and everyone will get mad at me. Your new book is called How to Be Loving: As Your Heart is Breaking Open and the World is Waking Up. And for those listening to this podcast, it will be out in about two weeks from the time of this publishing date, which is October 11. But I want to let people know before I forget. Please go preorder it because it's a fantastic book and we're going to talk about a bunch of things.

But I would really like to spend a lot of it around the teachings in this book because as I've been reading over the past few days, I'm just like, man, there's so much gold in here. So my first question for you, Danielle LaPorte is is the world really waking up? Because, man, by appearances, it seems like we are on a landslide into deep unconsciousness.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:10:35] Yes, the world is really waking up. It's inevitable. It's the natural arc of evolution. And things get worse before they get better all the time. I think we're in the midst of a global detox. And--

Luke Storey:  [00:10:50] The global colonic?

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:10:52] It's a global colonic and some of us are paying for it and some of us are resisting. I think this is shadow time where there's shadow where there's light and vice versa. From my own experiences of dark times, always it got worse before it got better. And all this stuff has to come up. It has to come up so you can look at it and love it and transform it. So all the stuff that's hidden, it's coming up.

We can see all that division and all that clarity of like, this is true, no, this is true. No, this is true. No, this is true. And then we can see things that everybody can agree on are being dismantled. We're not all agreeing on whether that dismantling is positive or negative. But things are falling apart. And I think most of us have either been through this recently enough. Let's say recently enough, being in the last decade. We had our own upheaval, doing this in boot camp to be leaders, healers, friends right now. Or we know what's going on in our own kitchens and bedrooms and boardrooms that there's a shakedown, there's anxiety, there's darkness, there's despair.

Well, let me ask you. I know a lot of your community. But if we both thought right now, out of 10 of our friends, what's the crisis ratio? I'm actively thinking about this right now. I'd say half of my friends are in crisis. And it's different. It's like, quote, "just a divorce." Some people are fighting for their lives in terms of their bodies, and then the other half of us went through it, feeling great right now, feeling strong, feeling like, we're the center of the friend hub right now. And we may fall apart tomorrow. But I think that's a great micro of what's happening on the global.

Luke Storey:  [00:12:59] Well, I self-select friends. I try to pick the best spiritual bypasses so everyone's just happy, love and light all the dark. No dark nights of the soul around here. But no, it's funny, as you pose that question back to me, I'm, as you're speaking, running through my list of friends and right now, everyone seems pretty solid. Where I live in Austin, everyone's having babies and or are in relationships. And there's a lot of community. And I know that's certainly not been possible in many parts of the world.

But for here it is right now. But I think a lot of that is because the friends in my lives, typically, especially close friends have had a tremendous amount of adversity. And we're kind of not that bad things aren't going to happen to any of us, no matter how much we've healed or worked on ourselves, but I think I gravitate toward people that are on the other side of that and moving more into the contribution phase of life more so than just like, I'm still working on my family of origin shit. It's like not that we're not always working, but I feel fortunate to have some people around me that are super solid.

And I know with me, it's more like, those moments of struggle seem to be more short-lived as time passes on. It's like, I have a little tantrum over something. And then half an hour later, I'm okay. Or there's a micro conflict in my relationship. Half an hour later, it's okay. It doesn't seem to persist. Whereas earlier in life earlier, on my journey, if I were triggered into an old pattern by something, it could be weeks or months until I was able to get out of it. And now it's like oh, nope, slippery slope and I just have built I think the discipline and had a lot of grace to not totally lose my shit.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:14:55] Yeah, you're spacious, you're resilient. And I don't mean fo resilient. I don't mean sucking it up life hacker. Excuse me, can I use that term life hacker on this podcast?

Luke Storey:  [00:15:07] Yeah, totally. I don't talk about that. My thing is not a hack in your life. My thing is on integrating tools and principles into your life and building a robust, vital life.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:15:17] Amen. Amen for all of that. Yeah, I think we get out of hacking and we become actually softer, which I think is what resilience is all about. It's about a gentling, not about toughening up.

Luke Storey:  [00:15:35] Yeah, I like your perspective and your writing on resilience because there is a perspective of toughness and tenacity, versus a more zen approach to resilience, the ebb and flow, the waning of a strong tree in the wind. It's not like bucking up against that wind. It's going oh, lean to the left. For a minute, take the hit and find your equilibrium in the center again. I really liked the way he described that.

Before we get into some other stuff from your book, and just your general teachings that I'm excited about, I got to talk about-- and I know you do cover this a bit recently, but I think we got to talk about cancel culture and virtue signaling. I don't know what happened with you a couple of years ago, but I think you were an early adopter on the receiving end of some attempted canceling. I don't know how effective it was. 

And I didn't look that deeply into it because I'm just obsessed with what's going on in my life. But it was like something around using the term white light or something like this and it got misconstrued as like, physical racial whiteness, or whatever I saw on and I was just like, oh, poor girl, man, this is so stupid from what I saw. So I don't want you to go relive the details of it, but maybe you could describe in brief what your personal experience as a public figure who in my estimation is really being of great service to large numbers of people and is motivated by love as your new book would indicate.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:17:15] Well, I think hopefully what anybody who goes through a cancel situation learns is that there's a lot of people and a lot of pain. And there's a lot of blind spots on every side, the side that's getting canceled, the side that's doing the canceling, I think there's lots of softening to do. But the problem with cancel culture is it creates this bracing and there's further division. And my observation with those that move towards canceling, doing the canceling is that-- and this isn't the case across the board because nothing is across the board-- there's a light side and a shadow side to everything.

So the light side of cancel culture is holy anger and holding people accountability for the sake of everybody moving forward. There's a real beauty to it. There's justice on behalf of the collective. That's great. That's more of like a call out, a righteous call out. Cancel has got that energy of obliteration. And it's so rife with projection, it's a kind of insanity. 

So my observation with my own experience and other people's experiences is that everybody comes out with their issues. They're just like, all right, you are currently on the cross. I'm going to take all my unhealed stuff and send it in your direction. So I've got unhealed issues around ageism, or ableism, or my father's stuff or my mother's stuff, or just, I'm going to find out a way that I can connect you to toxic patriarchy or nationalism, or whatever it is. 

And the person who's in the cancel hot seat gets that kind of paintball. And part of that, you can't talk about cancel culture without talking about virtue signaling. And my observation has been, it's those who lean toward that false power that comes with being the cancellor or the caller outer depending-- and again, this isn't across the board where they are really exuberantly hyper judgmental about people's virtuous actions.

My understanding, my knowledge, my heart knowledge now of virtue is that your virtue is between you and your God, it's between you and your soul. And nobody else can know clearly or say justly, what your intentions are. Now, lots of people are intuitive and empathic and wise. There's bazillions of us. And you could look at someone and say, that is just a fo opportunity. That is so halo polishing. Your wisdom may be making the right call. Maybe that person really is actually virtue signaling, which is let them do it back off.

Because I think what happens is when we do the right thing for the wrong reasons, so maybe we're making the donation or maybe our alliances are performative. Something good always seeps in to someone's psyche or life as a result of that fo virtuousness as a result of the fo opportunity.

Luke Storey:  [00:21:13] Shaking hands, kissing babies, that kind of thing.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:21:15] Yeah. They soften a little. They learn something about who they're hanging out with and trying to help so that they look good. And they might see the benefit of their sharing their place at the table. They might see the benefit of their inclusiveness that they're just checking off in a box. And they get a little more aware, and they get a little more gentle. 

And then maybe they actually evolve into being truly virtuous. But if we cut people off at the pass, even if they're in performance mode, they're going to be so shocked and wounded and afraid of coming out again, when their heart does soften, there's just going to be so much hesitancy. So cancel culture, the dark side is extremely divisive. And this could lead us into a conversation around karma, which is to say, it ain't good for anybody.

Luke Storey:  [00:22:29] In my experience, nothing has a bigger impact, and I mean nothing, on how I feel and perform each day than my quality and quantity of sleep. Honestly, I've tried every supplement and biohacking technology out there to improve my mood, energy, and focus after a crappy night's sleep and there is nothing that makes me feel better than a good night's sleep. And unfortunately, lack of sleep is simply not hackable in my experience. And the thing that's had the single biggest impact on my sleep is temperature regulation.

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I want to read something. I rarely do this because I'm not that great at reading out loud. But I'm going to give a stab at it. Something you wrote about cancel culture and I was just like, this is so spot on to me. It rings so true. It says, quote, "Too much clinging to our personal traits and we end up congested with opinions. We become hard to please, botherable, political, separatists, and subtle in overt ways. This bleeds into our social media sphere too, a subtle pressure to stake our claims regarding world events culture aesthetics." And this is the one I highlighted here. "The shadow nature is always pushing us to pick a side which we know, but also to go public with it." That's the showing the side, right? "So we close our eyes minds to the possibility that our opinions change. It's all the trappings of cancel culture."

To continue, "We're in such a crisis of human division that true virtue is getting cancelled as virtue signaling," just what you're elaborating on here to a degree, "and the cancellers of virtue are lauded as virtuous. Ultimately, your intentions for goodwill or ill are between you and the infinite." Lastly, and this is a beautiful way to close this, "Virtues are not something that you do or perform, they're not a behavioral system for earning you keep on the planet. Virtues are the light of truth that flows into you and out of you. To be virtuous is simply to reflect the divinity of life. Virtuousness is true self realization."

What I've, what I-- and maybe you could elaborate on that, but what I take from that is, when I think of the virtuous parts of myself or times in which I am more virtuous than others, it's just about aligning with my highest values. And when I have an opportunity to say, practice, unconditional love or forgiveness, which is values that I cherish deeply, and I'm faced with a circumstance that gives me a very difficult opportunity to practice that, when I do, and I hold that within my heart with some degree of humility, I feel the benefits of that are long-lasting and become integrated into my character. 

Whereas if I were to do a social media post, or even call someone and say, "Hey, guess what, remember that asshole that I wanted to kill last week? Well, I just forgave them." it's almost like one loses the karmic-- to go back there, the karmic benefit of the exercising of that, or the practice or application of that value, or that principle, by allowing the ego to co-opt it into a commodity. 

Whereas when you hand a homeless person 20 bucks, how good that feels. It's a drop in the bucket. It might not be that meaningful to us, but maybe it is to them that day. And it's like, if we just hold that as our little secret between us and them and God, there's a certain sweetness in it. Whereas if I come home and say, "Hey, I saw this guy, guess what, I gave him 20." You know what I mean? It's just like you were just robbed of the karmic merit of that gesture by the grandiosity of you patting yourself on the back.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:27:33] That's a beautiful way of putting it. That's a great story. It is a great storytelling. Yes, to all of that. I don't think though, that we have to be silent about our giving, let's say. Let's say the virtue is generosity. My early days I worked at the body shop. Anita Roddick was the founder. She was one of the progenitors of triple bottom line socially responsible business. And her theory was, be public about your giving so that you can inspire others to do the same. And I think she was coming from a really pure place. And it wasn't taking the merit out of the merit.

What you're talking about is performativeness. What you're talking about is being able to be still like that moment where you decide to brag about your giving. Or you could just share about your giving and how vulnerable you felt or how powerful you felt the pain of the other person. There's always this opportunity to see that person I just gave that 20 bucks too could have been me. And we tap into this oneness awareness. I like the term oneness awareness because I don't think any of us here gets that we're actually one because we live in a dualistic dimension. But we tap into oneness awareness when we just get still with the virtue.

An example I give in the book is you can have one virtuous behavior in two different approaches. So I'm going to go dish out soup at the soup kitchen because I feel like that could have been me because this has caused me so much agony, the condition of my city, I got to help, I got to help. And you can even feel desperate about it. I think that's really love nudging you on. Or you can go because-- you might not even tell anybody, but you're going because you want to polish your halo. In Christian terms, you'd say you're trying to earn divine favor. I just switched being Catholic to being New Age. So I went from being a sinner to burning my karma. And it was just like the same punishing thing. It was just like different channels.

Luke Storey:  [00:29:57] That's good. That's good.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:30:01] And I find when I'm really in virtue, I'm so much more relaxed. My heart's breaking, but to use an oftenly used term right now, nervous system, but when I'm in virtue, which for me, it's really aligned with my soul, I am chill. And I think more clearly. I don't feel as-- well, virtually dissolves the ego. But you don't do it to dissolve your ego, but it's what happens. It's fairly beautiful.

Luke Storey:  [00:30:38] Thank you for that. Speaking of ego, you just reminded me of something. Probably I haven't thought about this in years, but early in my journey, when I was just starting to develop a modicum of self awareness and learn how to have some generosity and some virtue, I guess, having been a former waiter for a long time, I would sometimes give waitstaff ridiculously big tips. 

And I noticed at one point that I was doing it, but I had an attachment to them being impressed by my generosity. So if I didn't get acknowledgment from them, I didn't even get the juice out of it. And I started to see like, oh, I want them to think I'm a high roller, or I'm just such a great person. And it was devoid of the depths of satisfaction I was seeking. And thankfully, I was able to see that and then just anonymously leave my big tip and get out of there and not wait for them to go, "Oh, my God. Thank you, sir. Wow, I'm so impressed."

It's just like to illustrate the naivete and stupidity of the ego. The tactics that it uses are clever, but also just so dumb, in a way. It's like who does that? What? No, just leave the tip and get out of there. With the cancel culture, and I feel for people that are in the public eye to whatever degree now, there's a walking on eggshells energy. And I find that with myself, too, whether I'm going to be canceled by the public at large, or by the censorship algorithms on the tech platforms that don't like certain things that I have to say, or my perspective about them, there's a tiptoeing like, oh, can you still say that? Or you watch comedians now that are becoming very vanilla and safe, and those that are being old school comedians are getting canceled or at least attempted.

For someone who's walked through the fire of that, how do you deal now or maybe advise someone who's dealing with unfair criticism and accusations and that is being canceled or having attempts that they're canceling? How does one build resilience to that and operate from a healed loving place rather than allowing your wounds to cause you to react to that person's wounds that are trying to attack you in the first place?

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:33:14] Well, there's pre cancel, there's during cancel, and there's the aftermath cancel. So pre cancel, which is what everybody is existing on right now, which is got everybody's nervous system jacked, can I say this? Can I say this to the person on the bus, to my mother-in-law? Can I say this online? Why are you saying what you're saying? There is an intention behind all communication.

So I really think that the ego gets us in trouble. There's lots of pure intentions, there's lots of things that we do out of love that get misconstrued, and those are part of our karmic lessons and everything. But really, I think lots of us-- because I see people on all sides of various issues right now. I've actually had conversations with people in our community doing what we do for a living here and saying your hashtag is all about unity. But really you're criticizing so many people who are pro-unity, or who don't see things the way that you see things.

And over the last couple of years, I get DM saying, you need to speak out about this, you need to speak out about that. First of all, don't assume my opinion, my perspective. My opinions are very variegated. They're not as black and white as I think people would like people with a microphone to have. So it's interesting I've called out other people about being called out, do it gently, do it in DM like, I love you, brother. But do you really-- that was so stinking. Where's that coming from? Is that like, you didn't get what you needed from your whoever? 

So I think there's cancel culture. All the division is a really backhanded way for us to really be mindful about our speech in a really holistic conscious way. It's called consciousness. What are you saying? What is your tone? What's the origin of that? What's the intention behind the communication? Then during the canceling, if it should happen to you, for whatever reason, whether you just stepped in it, where you really did mess up.

There's wisdom in retreat. You've got to know the basics of gang mentality of cult culture, and that you are going to be the whipping person. I'm even conscious of that, even using that phrase. There's so many phrases you just need to be mindful of. They come out [Inaudible 00:36:09] way I know the origin of that phrase. You are going to be the scarecrow that somebody sets fires to.

And there's a meta-perspective of that, which is I create my reality. This is for my highest good. And I'm going to turn my highest good into something better for everybody. And I attracted this, manifested it. What I don't think I'm responsible for attracting and manifesting, I'm going to leave up to some mystery. And we're all going to go through micro crucifixions in order to become who we really are. 

Here's the beauty of being canceled, is you are radiant on the other side. You are radiant on any side after you walk through any fire. And what's coming off is like, all these masks of the ego of just like, I can't be taken off my position. You can be. And so there's that.

And then you have to look at the reality of actually being a victim because lots of people legit get hit. It's like you're walking down the street with great intentions, and there's a gang looking for a fight. A gang just have have unhealed inner children, and they're going to come over and beat the shit out of you. And you're going to have to deal with the shame and the pain and the sorrow and just, it's almost inconceivable when that happens.

And then you might want to consider what your lane is, and your life purpose. And this isn't about shutting up and putting up. This is about what are you here to do really? What are you here to talk about? Are you here to talk about meditation or better parenting? Then just do that and do it well, and do it deeply because when you're in your dharma, you're in your zone, that way, you can really make sure that you're coming from a place of love. And if someone is pushing against you, you're not going to get thrown off your center. 

What I see happening a lot in our spaces, and this is that part you read out of How to Be Loving, which is the ego mind, personality, wants us to pick a side and be public about it. And the pressure to do that from everybody else's ego is really intense these days, especially if you're making your living via social media.

And it's been one of my great I would say spiritual practices to be still and just offer what I am here to offer. And I know that it's my personality, my ego that says, oh, should have it, I should get into that argument over there. Hey, listen, I am not short of opinions. But I do not need to express all of them all the time. And that is actually an act of love, keeping it to myself and focusing on what I am, focusing on my gifts basically.

Luke Storey:  [00:39:33] That's beautiful. That's a very potent message. Something I found really intriguing in there is remaining in your dharmic lane. And I've noticed this speaking of the DMs. When there's a big cultural or political event, I guess I dragged myself into that because I've been pretty outspoken about my disagreement with the official story for the past couple of years. I would say that my audience knows my position on it. But because I talked about something out of my lane because it entered into my lane because I talk a lot about health and this was a health issue, so I was like, wow, I do actually have something to say and this is my lane.

But then there'll be something like, people messaging me, you need to post a black square on your Instagram, or, most recently, it was how dare you not talk about abortion when the thing happened, the Roe vs. Wade thing and living in Texas as if I have something to do with what Texas does or doesn't do legislatively. But it's like, there was this vitriol. And I think what it was is like, the collective ego or the ego of those people as individuals wants me to take a side because they're so invested in their side.

And I didn't have anything to say about that particular issue a, because it's incredibly complex and vastly nuanced. And I personally have learned at the ripe age of 51 to not open my mouth about something that is a loaded cannon, unless I'm very sure about what my perspective is. And my perspective doesn't happen to come about the day after a news story breaks. There's a lot to digest in something like that. And it's not my lane. It's like, what difference does it make to this person DMing me or whatever? What do you want me to say? If I say this, it's going to make you feel better. And if I say that, it won't. It's like--

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:41:37] Well, this is this is part of the collective shadow is now we're getting so fed by the polarization. It is just jacking. It's just like ego masturbation. My sense is that there's actually the scanning now for silence. People are policing, like, "Oh, you didn't talk about that? Then this must be your stance on that." And that is heartbreaking, sad, and very dangerous.

Luke Storey:  [00:42:11] Yeah, it is. You're so right. It's like, sometimes your silence on an issue is assuming your guilt or assuming your position. Just for people listening, man, sometimes people don't know what to say about something. It's too big to just form an opinion, or just shoot off the cuff about something that is so potentially disturbing to folks. I feel anyone that has some kind of platform, mine's not that big, but there's a few people listening, and I'm not just going to pop off with something unless I feel pretty damn sure and I can backup whatever my point of view happens to be. And hopefully that point of view evolves and changes over time.

And I think with the cancel culture thing, one of the most sad things about it is that it by and large negates the opportunity for someone to evolve and to grow. If I think about ways in which I used to behave through the early couple decades of my life, it's more defined. And I have a healthy regret for much of my behavior, especially in the years when I was a drug addict. It's just horrible the way that I treated people and ultimately treated myself. 

But God, if I was being judged against that now, I'd be crucified. I crucify myself over some of the things that I did. But it's like, wow, what a sad world it is. If someone says something in a tweet in 2008 and it's been held against who they are today, someone who's been through deaths and divorces and births, and God knows what inner work hopefully they've been doing, it's like, where's the room for us to actually evolve if we're crucified on the cross of one statement we made or one mistake we made. 

And show me a human that's infallible. Come on. Dude, I do stupid things every day. And I try to be aware of them and slowly, over time, improve and become a better person because I'm drawn to be that way. But what do you feel about that if like, just the zero forgiveness and zero opportunity for evolution or change.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:44:30] Tragic. And this goes back to the point I was raising about karma with cancel culture. So my understanding of karma is not so much about punishment. There isn't this deity in the sky that's keeping score. It's the universal principle of balance. Everything has to come into balance. Everything has to come home. And home is harmony, and home is love, and home is inclusion and compassion, home is the heart. And for that to happen, your soul is going to bring you into balance. And that's called karma.

So when you are in attack mode, so you've spewed a lot of vitriol and you've withheld a lot of love. That's going to have to get rectified in your life, and maybe lifetimes in the future, and maybe in some other dimension, but you're going to have to clean up that mess. And this is the beauty of having an intentional spiritual practice, is you get to get in front of that karma. And you got to be sure it's not all about earning divine favor, but it's like, wow, my suffering has led me to the awareness that we are all connected. My suffering has led me to the awareness that I have a lot of shadow and I have a lot of light. Got it. That's the first loop on the spiral to higher consciousness.

And it's from there you're really in your heart center. It's from there that you set out to clean some things up. This is why I've got lots of opinions about recovery methodologies, and 12 Step. But then one of the beautiful things I think about the 12 Step program is making amends. It's so empowering. I think my experience over the last couple of years is that forgiveness is the best high that there is. And asking for forgiveness is some spiritual badass. You might not even get it. It really refines you. You ask for forgiveness, and you don't get it. Ah, wow. Then you've really got something to sit with. You really see what may have been there.

Luke Storey:  [00:47:00] Yeah, imagine a world where-- I guess we don't have to imagine, its present with a certain number of people. But imagine a world where no amends are accepted, no forgiveness is given despite how humbly one might ask for it. And you brought to mind that principle of restitution or making amends in the 12 Steps, and oh my God, what a powerful practice. 

I remember years ago-- I'll share this with you. I guess I share it with a few thousand people. Again, one of those things I'm not proud of, but it's just the way I was. When I was first sober, as they say in circles of recovery, what do you get when you sober up a horse thief, you got to sober horse thief. So one of the things I did when I first sobered up, is I had a job and I was stealing money from my job because I had all these justifications for why that was a fair thing to do.

And so I was able to justify it, even though I knew that's the way I used to be. I'm not supposed to be that way anymore. But these people are assholes, so I'm going to do it anyway. I stole money for a little while, moved on to another job. And that sat in my conscious for probably 15 years or something. And I made a lot of amends. And then I went and did the list. And I did all the things to all my loved ones. And anywhere I could think of that one, since it was a financial restitution, it was like, "I'll do it later, when I have more money. I'll do it, but I'm just trying to pay my bills."

Anyway, at some point, I was really starting to look at the nooks and crannies of my inventory. And it's like, yeah, that wasn't right. So I tracked down the woman who had owned that restaurant and I said, "Hey, listen, you might not even remember me, but I worked for you for a period of time." And I'm virtue signaling right now, by the way. It's a good story. So I tracked her down and I said, "Listen, would you be willing to meet me for coffee? I owe you an immense." And she obliged, and I went and had coffee with her. And I told her the story and admitted what I had done and said, "Listen, I'm ready to pay you. And I don't know the exact amount but this is a ballpark."

And it might have been a little less than it was. I had no way of knowing, but it was enough to hit me, a couple a few thousand dollars. And she was so moved by that experience. And not only was the apology accepted, but she said to me-- and she was prior quite a wealthy woman, I think. And she said, "Look, you have no idea. My family and I are destitute right now." It's immense.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:49:36] Yeah, it's very moving.

Luke Storey:  [00:49:34] It was a powerful experience. And she said, "Just things have gone poorly for us and a couple of thousands means a lot to me right now and I would absolutely be willing to accept that." And we just had the most beautiful human exchange of no longer an employee to a boss, a man to a woman, whatever stratosphere we were existing in social economically. Now I was on the up, she was on the outs. And it really meant a lot to her to the point where she even contacted me after that. And she said, "Look, after that happened, my relationships within my family started to improve." And she had this whole cascade of aftershocks of just one kind, virtuous gesture of just applying one principle.

And it was so powerful. And I'm so glad you reminded me that because I actually forgot about it until this moment. But had she said, "No, I'm canceling you forever." Not that she had to forgive me, but if she said, "No, I'm not even going to meet with you because I've canceled you," then where is the healing not only for me, but where's the healing for her, of being given the opportunity to practice forgiveness within her heart, and actually receive a few bucks too. It's like, it was such a win-win of that type of example.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:50:59] That's you embodying a virtue. It's there in all of you. I'm going to give you the money, I'm going to meet with you, I'm going to love you, no matter what. It's like you just put everything into divine order. Love just blasts everything open. That divine art, it's almost I see it like it's chiropractic adjustment. It's like, she got the crack, you got the crack. And look at all the harmony, there's just more love that flows into her life. She let that love in. You poured love. It's beautiful. And we can all do that right now today. You can do it the next three days.

Luke Storey:  [00:51:47] As someone who spent so much time, energy, and money to be healthy, I want to keep track of what's working and what's not. That's why I'm really into this company I found called InsideTracker. They are an ultra-personalized performance system that analyzes data from your blood, DNA, lifestyle, and fitness tracker to help you optimize your body and reach your health and wellness goals. Through their app and testing protocol, I'm able to get a clearer picture of what my body looks like on the inside. And I also get a clearer measure of whether my diet, supplement, and exercise choices are helping or even hurting.

I did the whole InsideTracker deal recently, and was actually shocked to find that I was less than perfect in some areas. My cholesterol and B vitamins were high, for example, and a few other things that need a little tweaking. There was, of course, also some good news as my overall health score was that of a much younger person and certainly more optimized than your average American. And that's the point. The whole goal with InsideTracker is to be optimized, not normal. So they don't merely show you the normal biomarkers zones, they show you the optimal biomarker zones and numbers that are best for your individual body.

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Danielle LaPorte:  [00:53:28] My lesson around forgiveness is that I've actually gotten off more by just talking about the higher virtue without actually asking for forgiveness. My struggle with forgiving has been, I've often thought, me forgiving someone else for the pain they inflicted on me was arrogant. I had enough clarity to be aware of that, they're just trying their best. And I could be pretty good at moving on sometimes, not all the time. 

But there was one particular relationship I've had where for years, I just thought they were 90% the deck and I was just 10% full. But I wasn't taking responsibility fully for my 10%. And I mustered it up and I just like okay. And I will give myself the credit for being sincere in this just like, there are nine things they should apologize to me for according to my moral standards, which I think are pretty universal. But I still owe them an apology for my stuff. And that is me expanding. It's not just, "You're good. You tried your best. You owe me an apology for nine things. You're off the hook. It's okay."

But you know what? Let me show up and say sorry for my 10%. And it was revolutionary for both of us. There were tears and more apologies. And I just went through my mental Rolodex, like, who else do I need to say sorry to? And some people, I haven't had the courage to dig up and say, oh, God, you know, that thing I said on stage about you, that thing I said in the workshop, that was clearly related to you, that subtle dig. My ego is so spiritual. My ego is so good at self-help. And I'll say, well, you meant well, and it's like, or it was nuanced, Danielle. You don't need to apologize for the nuance. Now, listen, if the intention is in me, the apology is owed.

Luke Storey:  [00:56:02] What about forgiveness in terms of actions that are truly unforgivable? I think some of us and I know I've struggle with this at times, just thinking about the most egregious attacks by the worst perpetrators of the core wound, folks for those of us that have been lucky enough to have those, almost everyone maybe, definitely the people doing the cancelling have some core wounds that they got to address. 

But it's like finding, I guess, the forgiveness for the entity, the energies behind that error, yet still maintaining the position of understanding of how wrong it was and how deeply it hurt you, thinking about somebody killed someone you know or the person that molested you, just those things that you just can't find forgiveness for because they were just so wrong and so catastrophically damaging. I've often struggled with separating that like, well, I forgive that person, but the thing, no way.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:57:12] Yes, let's do this. I talk about this in How to Be Loving. I call this the wound-to-healing sequence.

Luke Storey:  [00:57:19] Oh yeah, I wrote all that down in my notes. It's very cool. But yeah, please illuminate it.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:57:24] So you're born and you get messed up by your family of origin, your original circumstances. And then we have all this resentment because we wanted this idealized situation, and that turns into shame and that turns into guilt. So we go through the sequence till we get to forgiveness, which is everybody's doing the best they can. 

The extreme example that I like to use to really test my thinking with this is the systemized sex trafficking of children. I can't think of anything more heinous. There are a handful of things that go in that category, but that for me is. And for anybody listening, if you want to work with an organization-- I'm going to give a charity plug, if you want to work with an organization that is on the ground, rescuing kids and rehabilitating them long term, allyglobal.org. And I know them well, and I've been with them for three years.

Luke Storey:  [00:58:17] Cool, thank you. We'll put that in the show notes, folks, by the way. The show notes can be found for everything discussed here at lukestorey.com/danielle.

Danielle LaPorte:  [00:58:25] So let's go with moderate trauma let's say that many of us have experienced. We can get to that place of what they did was heinous on the dark side, and I'm going to let it go and I can heal. And I can see that they were mentally ill, demented, hijacked by darkness, however, you want to qualify. Forgiveness will set you free, forgiveness will set them free. 

What happens though is that a lot of us only go up to that point where we're just like, we end up in our therapist's office and we're looking at all the patterns in our life that are a result of our family of origin and our original traumas, what sexual abuse did to us, what neglect, all of those things. And that's beautiful, and it's necessary. I'm pro therapy.

But I think we can't stop there. And I think this culture of self-help just hovers there, and it's keeping us stagnant spiritually. I think something else to consider, and you got to make sure it's not a spiritual bypass is that we incarnate with a theme. So let me go back to the therapy for a second. Most of us in this space and listening right now know that like, "Hey, I attracted this shitty abusive boss because it reminds me of my overloading abusive caregiver. 

And I haven't healed that wound, so the pattern is repeating." We get that. What I'm asking us to do is zoom out even further, which is you magnetized to you these parents who were damaging, neglectful, trying their best, best intention, terrible intentions because it's a growth theme, a pain body theme that your soul has been working with for eons of time.

So let's go back to the therapy session. Your therapist is going to say to you, "Great, can you see the gift and attracting a boss who is neglectful and overloading?" And you can go, "Yes, I can see that I'm going to reclaim my power and I'm not going to neglect myself ever again, what a gift. But most of us, and it's understandable, most of us don't want to go to the place, especially in situations of extreme abuse of saying, "My soul magnetized, this abusive situation in my early upbringing, so that I could transmute this and learn that I am impeccable, magnificent, beloved. "

We bring all those dark things in so that we can become aware of our true nature. Does it make those dark things justifiable or even an iota of okay or right? No. Absolutely not. But it's happening in this dimension called Earth and this dualism that we're in. We are in dark and light. We're in evil and good. And meta meta, not only does your soul say, okay, let's go in. And let's start with some neglect and abuse so that you can really get crucified and rise. You're going to be that. You're going to be that darkness. You've been that darkness.

You're going to try it all on. And you're eventually going to see that it is all-- and this is unfathomable for most of our lives to consider. It's all of God. It's all of God. And it doesn't make it right. God knows what love is. But God is animating. Life force is animating everything. It's just when we forget that we are life force and love, we do terrible things.

 Luke Storey  [01:02:42] Wow, that's awesome. Thank you for that. That's a great reminder, especially the last bit there around all of it being God. To step into non-duality when you're still in a body and there's still a separate you across for me, this is challenging for most us. And the ego hates it, and the intellect hates it. But there's something in our soul that at least for myself, I can speak, but I just know this to be true, that this infinite thing we call God, this ineffable undescribable thing seeks to experience itself. So it expresses itself infinitely, which includes what we would determine on the side of the dualistic scale as evil and darkness.

But think about-- this is just me riffing here. If this earth is a school, think about a world with no contrast. How would you evolve if that's the purpose of us being here? This is the way I reconcile the fact that there's famine and war and corruption and all of the things. It's just either everything is God or nothing is. And to lean into the idea that nothing is is terrifying. And it's no fun. It's also just not fun. And there's no mystery then. It's just oh, nothing means anything and it's just a complete shitshow of an accident that we're put here and then we die and that's the end of the story. It's just like, God, how boring.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:04:21] For this-- let's just call it a theory, small truth, for this theory to work, you do have to at least consider living multiple lives living inter-dimensionally because when I see someone, whether it's someone who's born into famine, or has survived, extreme sexual abuse, trafficking, or the guy on the corner, who's begging for change, my immediate-- it wasn't always this way. I've gone through phases of feeling pity and just got it. But my immediate response is respect.

When I see someone who's in extreme suffering, I just think, ah, sister, Mr., Human, what you have taken on in this life is incredible. I'm not up for that suffering. It's like, maybe I've mitigated all my suffering, burned a lot of karma, and some of what I've got this time is reward, and I don't know what's coming. But I see someone who's chosen challenge. And it's inevitable this lifetime or the next time, they are going to transmute that and just be Jesus Christ Superstar. And then when I look at the perpetrators of extreme evil-- this doesn't happen all the time-- I'm actually able to feel some compassion for them because the karma that is being rocked by someone who does such heinous things that we've brought up is I think, inconceivable.

Just imagine 6,000 years in darkness, whatever extreme, or that happening to you time 6,000 to balance out the scales and just like we see this. We hear this phrase all the time in all the old, classic films, the judge saying-- he hits down the gavel and says, "May God have mercy on your soul." I don't think it works like that. I think it's, may your soul have mercy on you.

That gets us into the slope of what mercy actually is. So what's helpful to me, helps me be of service, when I see a perpetrator and feel compassion for them because, man, they're going to have a lot to learn through. And when I see a victim, a legit victim, and I feel so much respect for them, I can be of more service. I show up with mental clarity. I'm not pitting anybody. My heart is engaged. And I can have a compassionate response to everybody, I can take action, I can make a donation, I can be at the soup kitchen, whatever is called for. But the respect of the suffering has really helped me stay sane and be useful.

Luke Storey  [01:07:34] Oh, man, I love that. What a great perspective. I like the idea of the karma being things coming back into balance. It's much more fluid than just a cold, hard cause effects perspective because I'm thinking, of course, as you speak back to things that happened to me when I was a kid, I was truly a victim in certain circumstances, most of the bad shit that happened to me in my life, I had a very large part in helping to bring that in however, unconsciously.

Literally, I did this when I was a kid. I went up to a wasp nest with a stick and just treated it like a pinata, and cause and effect like that instant karma, I got stung shitless and laid out in the mud in the garden. But I did that metaphorically again and again throughout my life. But there were times early in life, and I've examined those and just thought not in a self-blaming way, but just that must have been something-- to use your framework there-- of things coming back into balance. There were things that I had done previously that were out of balance. 

My will or whatever it was at the time led me astray and it's likely that I was a perpetrator to some degree. And then that pendulum that I'm visualizing as I came into this body in this lifetime, went vrrrrh and was seeking its equilibrium. And there I was caught in the crosshairs of that. Though without that opportunity, then I have nowhere to move my pendulum back into the light. It's just has to be that way.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:09:17] Well, someone has got to bang the wasp nest. And this gets into who's going to play the bad guy in his lifetime? So there are some people in positions of so-called power, those who have been so-called elected-- lots of air quotes here.

Luke Storey  [01:09:42] You could put an S on the beginning of that, speaking of the United States at least selected.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:09:47] Yes, selected. And I felt such a rage at the tyranny that's happening across the planet right now. It's been happening for generations. And I thought, okay, what's the compassionate lens to put on this? And here it is for me. Again, it does not, not for a nanosecond, justify the tyranny. We know this is wrong. This is discordant. This is not in harmony with love. But I wonder if some of these leaders show up and just say before, we're all incarnate, like, "Okay, I'm going to go into this theater called Earth. I'll play the fucking bad guys then."

So when I look at these bad guys-- and maybe I wonder if they're taking one for the team because there's cause and effect. They are going to accumulate karma that they are going to have to work through. It will not be easy for these fuckers. But I leave space for someone showing up and saying, okay, I'm going to take one for the team. And then you bring it down to like this plane, why does this have to happen? Because they got to poke the nest. 

Look at what some of these leaders are bringing out. Look at all of the woke, the new age, or the self-helpers, who are talking about unity, who are just getting inflamed and enraged and creating more division. It's in a twisted way entertaining. He was like, all right, did I see the region? And then look at all the people who were on sides that we thought were unevolved, that were too this or too extreme or whatever. And they're actually toeing the line of the Buddhist middle way. This is fascinating. But it's because someone said I'm going to poke the nest. Let's see what's really in there under this all.

Luke Storey  [01:12:05] I had a vision one day where I experienced I would say, the deepest moments of source consciousness and true unity in a non-dual space that happened to be after taking a massive hit of 5-MeO-DMT. But that's not even the point. It happened to be the tool that facilitated this knowingness and this experience. But in that, all of these people that I have judged to be the perpetrators, these bad guys that are taking on that role now at this point in time and it became the most hilarious, cosmic giggle to me, because I started to see how each and every one of them were playing their role with such utter perfection. Just name any of them. We don't even have to name names, but just whoever you think it is. You could think it's Orange man, you think it's George Soros, whatever, whatever side your egos having you take, but it's like, they're literally perfect in their expression of that side of the duality.

And furthermore, if they were all in prison tomorrow, if suddenly justice prevailed and the powers that be decided to lock all these baddies away, there's a whole new crew of them that's just going to fulfill their place because of that balance. There's someone else who's going to play that role perfectly if you lock them all up. And maybe over eons and eons of human evolution, and as our consciousness collectively rises and rises, then perhaps the disparity between those two hard edges of duality, from love to the absence of love, maybe that gap will not be as wide. 

And that's what we can hope for, but that moment gave me so much solace because it's like, I don't need to fight them. I don't need to pray for their punishment or imprisonment. It's like you said, actually even going further, the compassion for and I love that you brought this up, it's powerful, is the compassion for the suffering that they are inviting unto themselves, is doing its job and will do its job.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:14:23] Nobody needs to worry about anybody else's karma. Their soul is going to bring everything back into balance. Think about all that energy we burn around vengeance and justice and balancing the skills. Listen, just clean up your own act. And it's all going to get taken care of. And yes, yes, yes, yes, holy anger, rocking the vouch, cleaning up the streets, fighting for what's right, but you can only fight for what's right when you're are fighting for the collective. It's not right unless everybody is included in the benefits of the scales being balanced. We all have to win or it's not justice.

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Danielle LaPorte  [01:19:43] This goes back to cancel culture and polarization. You can fight and you can fight with the virtue of harmlessness. As a species, we are not good at this. Some of the deepest suffering I've had-- and I'm on the other side of this. I can speak coherently about this, is I've had almost this neurotic fear of punishment. And favor happened with me that if I did this I'm burning karma. If I don't do this, oh my god, I'm collecting karma. And it's like it's a Buddhist hangover. It's a Catholic hangover. It's all of this. But it was really getting to the point of neuroses for me.

And I finally came across a lot of mystical writing about this. And it's simply called the inner battlefield. And I cried. When I read it, I was just like, I'm not crazy. And I'm going to get through this. It's like a real thing on the path and it's difficult. On your way to enlightenment, you're actually totally neurotic. The antidote to that neuroses of, I got to be good, if I'm bad this is going to happen is holding cultivating beautiful visions of the future. 

So every time I thought God was going to punish me, or I'm going to get canceled, or I'm going to get whatever I want. I would just have to go to I see myself doing yoga on the beach, I see myself-- just was so in love 80 years is my man, whatever, I see myself with the sunflowers. And that dissolve the inner torture. And I think that's what's required of us right now. And so many of us again, in this space, it's so great to hang with you because we can laugh at ourselves. It's like we've been doing this long enough. But so many of us in this space are actually-- we're trying to change things with this doom.

And the work, I mean, the work, this is a phrase that's really getting contorted. But the light work is to be the light in the dark and to not over-emphasize, to not over privilege everything that's not working. It's to say, look, I still have hope, even in this battleground. And that's when you really have that Phoenix moment, your rise.

Luke Storey  [01:22:46] I need to make some changes to my Telegram channel based on that. It's like my outlet for all of the evil shit that I find in the world that I'll get kicked off social media for talking about. But sometimes I'm like, I'm actually creating a nervous system doom scrolling situation. I think my intention is not that. It's to go hey, guys, sound the alarm. But I have not yet found so much of the balance that you just illustrated in that. It's like, okay, yes, and if I'm focusing so much on what I don't want, collectively speaking, then isn't that what I'm inviting in, versus at least spending some of the energy on what I do want. That's one part.

Another thing that came to mind is the selfishness. I just made a new little vision book, I have these little flashcards, and I look at them before I go to sleep and had to make a new one because all my old ones came true, literally everything. The dreams were too small, obviously. So I made a new one. But as you said that, I was like holy shit, they were all about my life improving. There was nothing in that vision for the collective. And obviously, as my well-being increases, I'm going to be able to make a greater contribution to the collective naturally, but it was like, oh, I want this, I want that, whether it was something material or immaterial.

But that was a good reminder to actually hold that vision of what's possible, of like what I was describing earlier, where it's maybe in the cards that at some point in the future here on Earth, the duality could be less extreme. It's possible that maybe someone who's in a lower vibrational field just they steal a pack of gum rather than traffic a bunch of kids. You know what I mean? So thank you for that. On the topic of neuroses, because I'm neurotic as hell--

Danielle LaPorte  [01:24:47] I can tell.

Luke Storey  [01:24:48] Thank you. And it's something--

Danielle LaPorte  [01:24:50] I've seen all the vitamins in there.

Luke Storey  [01:24:52] Oh, yeah, it's on another level. And it's something that I've actually been self-critical about because I think man, 25 years I've been working on myself. I'm certainly more enlightened than I've ever been. I don't know if I'm there or is it there, but I think, God, I'm still so controlling about all the things, the supplements, all the biohacking, all the shit. And then I heard on one of the Ram Dass lectures and I think he said this a few times actually in different ways, but the essence of what he said was, over all of these years of spiritual work, I've grown closer and closer to God and have become more enlightened over time. But I'm no less neurotic at all. 

He's that he said, like, I still bite my fingernails like a neurotic and have sexual thoughts or whatever his version of neurosis was. And I was wiping the sweat off my brow like, oh, God, I can just relax. Maybe it's not about relinquishing all my micro and macro neuroses, but it's just about seeking God. And if I'm doing that, with some degree of dedication and consistency and humility, I win.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:26:00] You win when you love your neuroses. That's it. They haven't gone. They may never go, you don't know. But they're still here, they're banging on your door they're asking for attention. Just love them. I have learned to be-- it's more than tolerance. It's like, can I actually have reverence for the worst parts of myself-- my neuroses, my arrogance, and my controllingness. 

And I'm getting there. And the softer I am with them, the more welcoming, more conversations, the more loving conversations, I can have with those parts of myself that I've been really just trying to beat the shit out of for years, the less they control me, but they don't go away. They haven't gone away yet. And I think I need to be in the place of, well, they're just here today. They might be here tomorrow too, but they're here today. So I'm going to be love today.

Luke Storey  [01:27:05] Do you think that these aspects of each of our neuroses are maybe artifacts of the persona? Some of it's just inherent to our lineage, our genes, it's how the body and mind and the persona, I guess, is really the best cumulative word for it. But that's how I see it as I come into that acceptance is like, this is the personality, the persona that I seem to have been born with, and how futile and frustrating it is when I fight against that rather than as you so wisely suggested, to actually embrace and love it, because it seems like it's a chasing of one's tail to try to ferret out all the things about you that are wacky, and maybe those wacky things are just hard fucking wired. That's how they seem in me. And maybe until I love them enough that they're able to adapt and evolve.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:28:05] I think the answer to all of that is yes. And I think we come in with some non negotiables to our spirit, let's say, whether six planets in Virgo and born under this. I think that's a really sacred blueprint and it's going to dictate some things in our life. I think it's like that's the road we're going to walk. And how we walk it is the persona, is the personality, is the ego. So are you going to be grandiose and super controlling, while you go through these passages and initiations that you have to go through because that's what your soul said, when you were born at 11:52 on Wednesday. Or are you going to be gentle and zen and chill about it? But you're going to have to honor the map that you came in with.

Luke Storey  [01:29:07] We touched on trauma a little bit. And this is something I wanted to talk to you about. I remember years ago, interviewing Masten Kip, and he was using the term like trauma-informed a lot. This person is trauma-informed, and this one's not. And I think I had experienced so much trauma, I didn't even know what he was talking about at the time, but maybe I just have a different vernacular for the same thing.

But now, it's so crystal clear to me as you indicated earlier when you were talking about how we experience trauma and then create these patterns or neural pathways where we then unconsciously invite in a mirror of that traumatizing situation as an opportunity to overcome it. And I started to see this unravel in my life over and over again as I started to become more trauma-informed, it's like, holy shit, my entire life has been dictated by early childhood trauma.

And so when I see someone acting out, someone who's doing the canceling or whatever it is, it's becoming increasingly and just crystal clear to me that that's a hurt person that is just projecting their unhealed trauma. So to me, it's like my worldview in terms of humanity is not even trauma-informed. It's like, it's all trauma is what it seems like. So then that begs the question, and I've been getting many more questions about this myself, not that I'm at all an expert, but I have done a hell of a lot of healing of my own trauma and feel pretty damn free of most of it at this point, based on the fact that the patterns that used to perpetuate as a result of the trauma I endured, have dissolved and are no longer operational. So it's like, it's quantifiable, my relationship, my finances, all the things.

So some of the things that have been useful for me, and you talked about the value of therapy, I've done every kind of therapy I've ever heard of, including hypnotherapy, EMDR, I went to a place called Onside in Nashville and did all this family of origin mapping, emotive, pounding the pillows, I went to a thing called the Hoffman process, another week-long intensive that was half sciency, half spiritually, all of these things that have benefited me immensely.

I work through a lot, but I couldn't break through the final layers of that some years ago. I was just stuck. And I started to see the ways in which I was stuck. And I guess because of what I do-- interviewing people, I kept hearing the word ayahuasca just coming into my field, and I'm a sober guy, I'm in recovery, I did psychedelics in my 20s-- well, not just in my 20s, in my early teens to late 20s, I did a lot of the things, never intentionally at all, but it was just like, totally off limits to me. It was just noise.

Well, good for you, if you went to Peru, and had an awakening, that's awesome, but it's never going to happen for me. It kept weaving its way and flirting with me to such a degree where I couldn't ignore it. And I had to start investigating. So I did. I interviewed a number of people, started to get a little educated, and eventually lean into that. And the rest is history, and have had a number of incredibly profound experiences over the course of the past three and a half, four years.

And within the first week of that exploration, and you hear this said by proponents of psychedelic therapy and stuff, maybe all of the work that I did prior to that created a nice framework for me to do some deep healing and know how to navigate those spaces and to know what I wanted to do in there and why, but nothing in my personal experience, and this is not a blanket recommendations for others, I really want to get your take, but for me, when that entered into my practice, in a very intentional, mostly responsible way, it healed my trauma period. It's just gone. It's gone. 

And not that there aren't subtle artifacts, but what are some of the ways I guess is what will culminate in a question. What are some of the ways that you found whether they're that or not to get to that really deep stuff where it's not just talking about it or journaling about it, but where it has actually somatically removed from your experience?

Danielle LaPorte  [01:33:30] So I'm going to split hairs here with words. So the trips, the plant medicine didn't heal your karma. It expanded your mind so that you were able to heal the karma. It just got integrated. I think it might be useful to say that because it's medicine that enables you in a positive way to do what needs to be done. It's not a fix. It's not a fix because it doesn't heal everybody's trauma. It's just you were expanded enough, right?

Luke Storey  [01:34:06] Well, yeah. And thank you for that. That's a powerful distinction. And to your point, I want to support that by saying, I didn't just drink some ayahuasca and just lay there and do nothing. It took a tremendous amount of courage and tenacity to be able to actually be willing to go into those really dark, creepy corners of my lived experience to allow the facilitation of that healing. I did heal myself-- that's a very important distinction-- and was assisted through that. And in my prior attempts, I did a lot of healing and much of it around trauma, but the deep, deep stuff I couldn't get to on my own. But when I got to it, it was my willingness and my surrender to God really to allow the grace to enter into my being and do that healing.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:35:01] So to your question about how to get to the deep stuff without the psychology, and basically you're asking, how do we get beyond the psych? And I love this question because I am on a current, potentially indefinite-- well, it is indefinite, potentially forever hiatus from therapy. So I feel it's taken me as far as I can go, done lots of it, all the things you listed. I was there the weekend before you were. 

And I feel like I need more depth. I need to go beyond the thinking mind. I want to go beyond my mind. So it's not the mind that's going to get me there. And my choice, I just want to be super clear, I have no judgment. In fact, I support and actually, for specific people in my life, I recommend-- I suggest like, hey, man, I think you should do some plant medicine. That'll get you where you need to go right now. 

For me, it's not a modality. As I said that some of this could be fear-driven, it could be wisdom. I feel like, if you're not in the right place, you bring stuff back with you. I think you go on this superhighway and it opens you up to all kinds of entities and energies that if you're not in shape, they jump on your back and they come in and they can wreak havoc in your life from headaches and tumors to divorces. So there's that for me.

I'm thinking just you and I as individuals. So it's like, I'm thinking about you and the hornet's nest, and then laying in the mud. And I just think that's such a beautiful story. It's so yummy in a way. It's like it brought you back to nature, and helped to be this healer. I don't have a story that relates, but a personality type as a child I was just like, "I'm going to do this myself. And so my learning has been when I don't do it myself, I get into big trouble. So that's why I decided I'm going to stay away from the plant medicine.

I use them lots of other ways in my life. I consider essential oils as plant medicine. But to get beyond psychology, there is the stu yourself, go cold turkey. No more astrology readings, no more shamans, no more forecasting. And you do the work and you sit down every day, and you be in the discomfort of the meditation. You be in the ecstasy of a meditation. You be in this discomfort every day of having reverence for your neuroses. You just do the real hard stuff, of having a holy perspective of all your humaneness. And there's no hack energy up to it. It's not quick.

I'm sure it can lead to lightning bolts enlightenment experiences. I haven't had one. Just to break this down to the real practical, I was joking a couple of weeks ago with my publicist, just saying, I don't have an enlightenment experience to talk about. I'm not putting myself on par with Eckhart Tolle and the like, but it's just like, there's so many bios now of spiritual teachers just like, oh, in 1974, he had an awakening. I've just been here ground down with my neuroses for many decades. And I've figured out a few things that may or may not be helpful to a few or lots of people. I don't know.

Luke Storey  [01:38:52] I love that you brought that piece up because studying the work of someone like Byron Katie or Eckhart Tolle where these are throughout recorded history in all different lineages and whatnot, where someone's just living their life. They're in suffering, and they get hit by lightning bolt, and now they're enlightened and they're good forever. That was my fantasy for so long.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:39:13] I wanted to have new experience. And I was just like, I don't want to be maimed, but I want to see the light and that's true.

Luke Storey  [01:39:19] I like, okay, how many years do I have to meditate before this shit happens. And I think to your point around the use of plant medicines, psychedelics, etc, is, in my subjective experience, there have been those transcendent mystical experiences that I've read about. And I know it and I'm in it and it's happening. But guess what, then said ceremony ends and you're on an airplane, you're coming back from wherever. 

And then my dad was just in the hospital, like, real life is still happening. And that's, I think, with any kind of experience, whether you're assisted by plants or not, it's the integration. It's like, okay, how do I-- if I got a glimpse of enlightenment going on a vipassana retreat or however you did it, it's not about that moment, it's about how can I be here when the shit hits the fan and just get a sliver of that into my experience in a practical, rooted, grounded way. 

And I'm with you, man, on it taking forever. Jesus Christ to be where I am today it's a lot of years, man, of real dedication too. And I'm going to pat myself on the back. And in the beginning, yeah, maybe it was just in the aversion to suffering that really drove my seeking of God and truth and higher consciousness, but at a certain point, it flipped out.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:40:48] But that's the purpose of suffering.

Luke Storey  [01:40:50] Ah, yes, yes.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:40:51] So it works.

Luke Storey  [01:40:52] Right. I discount that as not as virtuous because there was a certain point at which it was an aversion. It was like an attraction to the sweet nectar of peace and serenity and consciousness of just like, wow, I'm not running from anything really, but I just want more of however this feels to be able to be faced with an external challenge in life, and actually just be present for it and not bypass it and feel all those terrible feelings and just stand there in the rain just okay, give me all you got. I'm not going to turn from this. I'm going to face it and there's so much just rich juice in that experience. But God damn it's no quick fix by whatever route you go about it unless you happen to be karmically destined like Eckhart Tolle or Byron Katie to just get zapped, and then you become a spiritual teacher.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:41:51] And just to be fair, they went through extreme suffering. So Byron 10 years so immobilized by depression. She was in bed, and Eckhart having suicidal ideation for a long time. And I think it's also important to add that lots of people have had those-- you have all the suffering. It's like a protracted crucifixion. You have your enlightenment, you touch the divine, and then there's often this hangover, this integration phase. Katie walked through-- where was she living? She was called the hugging lady. She was so not in charge of her faculties yet. After her enlightenment experience, she would walk into people's homes and just hug them. And because she lived in a small community, people was like, okay, Katie is here. And Eckhart sat on a park bench for years, trying to integrate what just happened.

Luke Storey  [01:42:57] I think about that sometimes with stories. It's like, how many times have I been out in the world living my life, and I'm in the presence of an enlightened master and I have no idea because they're not talking about it.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:43:10] This is going to be so zen. But you're in your presence. You are in the presence of an enlightened master. It's you. That's just a concept, but we know that's a capital T Truth.

Luke Storey  [01:43:23] Yeah, it is. And I have actually had experiences too where-- a couple that come to mind. One was our housekeeper back in LA, it was just beautiful person, just incredible soul. And I'm pretty sure she was enlightened honestly. She was so happy and so at peace. And there was a language barrier. My Spanish is not fluent. It's okay, but not fluent enough to have a deep conversation with her. But I always want to ask you like, what's your secret? You have a job that wouldn't be preferable to me, but you've managed to in a Viktor Frankl Esque way, make your life the best life and you were hella happy all the time. What did you do? 

And it wasn't even what she would say. It was her essence and just being in her presence was enlightening. It was just like she walked in and just, ah, you exhale, that feeling I've had going to India and sitting at the Darshan with the supposed master and you go in there and you're like okay, something's happening here. They have something. I don't know what it is exactly, but it feels really good. So maybe it is a practice of finding that within ourselves and also keeping a keen eye out when there might be an unassuming teacher in our midst.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:44:43] Yeah, look for the light. You'll find it everywhere.

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This magnesium stuff is so important that it's involved in over 300 chemical processes inside your body. It's a critical mineral. Having enough magnesium can give you better sleep, more energy, healthy blood pressure, less irritability, a calmer mood, stronger bones, reduced muscle cramping, and even fewer migraines. Sounds awesome, right? Well, to experience these health benefits, you have to get the right kinds of magnesium, and most synthetic magnesium supplements just don't cut it.

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Okay, I want to cover a couple of things and as well let you go. So we've talked a lot about the content of your incredible book. Again, I highly encourage people to go grab a copy of that. They'll find a link to it at lukestorey.com/danielle. But you're not only a multi-book author-- you turn out books with a degree of commitment that I find really impressive. Being in the course of trying to write one now for a couple of years myself, I'm like, wow, so kudos to that. 

But I don't hear you talking about this that much. You're not like what I perceive to be a huge marketer like, buy my programs, do my thing. But in going on your site, I saw that you did have a couple programs, your hHeart Centered Membership and Heart Centered Leadership programs. And I was poking around in there a little bit, and I was like, this is super cool. So I just briefly wanted to give you an opportunity to share with people how they can get more of what you do and start to learn how to integrate your teachings in a more concrete way.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:47:53] Cool. Yeah, for those of you who are still with us after this tour de force of enlightenment and suffering, thanks for hanging in there. I've got two things going on. One, I'm really proud of my Heart Centered Leadership program. So we have 400 coaches and facilitators. Some of them are yoga teachers. Some of them are working at huge consulting firms who use this Heart Centered curriculum in the workplace with their clients. And its exercises for dissolving polarization and living a more reflective life. It's really beautiful. It's really conscious community.

And then we have our membership. And my membership, I look at it as a place of refuge, where you've got this library of different spiritual tools and you choose your own adventure. And then we hang out a couple of times a month and have what we call heart to hearts. And my experience is the community is intentional. They really want to heal. We're really in that space of like, okay, how can we be reverent with our neuroses? They really want to leave the world a better place. It's really beautiful space. So Heart Centered Leadership program, Heart Centered membership and then lots of audios. My vision of my digital space is what do you need at 11:30 at night when you're in a little bit of a suffering bind? I might have it for you at daniellelaporte.com.

Luke Storey  [01:49:34] Well, thank you for being so prolific and giving us all this great information to chew on out in the world. I appreciate it. And again, I appreciate your time and thanks for being willing to do a deep dive. I find the two- hour conversation is easier for me and everyone when we're sitting in person like we were last time on Zoom. I noticed that about 90 minutes my eyes are like whoa, that's a close computer screen. So I appreciate you taking the time today. And we're going to put all your stuff in the show notes to definitely encourage people to preorder your book and just support the work you're doing. So thank you.

Danielle LaPorte  [01:50:05] This is a great conversation. Thank you. I love what you're doing.

Luke Storey  [01:50:08] Awesome, likewise. Thanks for joining us, Danielle.

Well, that brings yet another episode of the Life Stylist to a close, my friends. Thanks so much for joining me and Danielle on this exploration of what it means to evolve as a human at this epic and sometimes confusing time on Earth. And if you dug this show, please feel free to share it with some friends. And if you want to watch these interviews in real-time, as I record them, make sure to follow me on Instagram @lukestorey where I live stream the shows in my IG live feed every week, that's @lukestorey on Instagram.

And before we go, remember, you can find Danielle's courses plus her Heart Centered Membership and Heart Centered Leadership programs in the show notes for this episode at lukestorey.com/danielle. I'm going to pop in here for a minute to remind you to sign up for the off-grid homestead bundle for only $50 between September 16th and 25th 2022. You can find the registration link at lukestorey.com/offgrid. Now I joined over 100 other thought leaders and creators who have contributed high-quality ebooks, video courses, and guides on how to live a sustainable and self-sufficient life.

And when we came together, we all agreed to contribute this content for 99% off retail. Why? Because we believe in how important it is to get this information out there to people like you. I know I'm going to devour the stuff that's in this program because there's literally everything in this mega content bundle for living a life of freedom, resilience, and sustainability. 

As a reminder, here are just a few of the topics covered. First, we've got EMF mitigation, of course, that's why my EMF home safety masterclass is included in the bundle. And that thing in and of itself is over six hours of video content. Plus you'll also learn some highly valuable and timely life skills like how to start homesteading and living off the land, permaculture, organic gardening, wild foraging, seed starting, canning and food preservation, self-sufficiency with solar-powered solutions, creating online income, and monetizing Airbnb rentals, urban gardening, creating chemical-free cleaners, composting methods, organic farming, beekeeping and animal care, prepping and emergency preparedness, sovereign womanhood homebirth, breastfeeding, and holistic postpartum practices, and even how to start homeschooling. And that's just a fraction of the stuff included in this bundle.

Here's what you do to sign up. Go to lukestorey.com/offgrid to get access to everything, including my EMF course for only 50 bucks. Again, that's lukestorey.com/offgrid, or just click the link that appears in your show notes on most podcast player apps. But don't forget registration for this thing is only open September 16th through 25th 2022. So I highly recommend that you get signed up right now. It's lukestorey.com/offgrid.

And we've got a great show coming up because so many of you have been asking me to do another episode on holistic or biological dentistry. So I'm coming back at you next week with precisely this. We'll be hosting my personal Dentist Dr. Stuart Nunnally and Candice Owens for Episode 434, where we discuss everything from root canals, extractions, cavitations, and most of all, how your dental health impacts your entire body. It's going to be epic, and I really look forward to sharing that with you. Until then, do your best to remain loving, especially to yourself.

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